Sony VPL-VW500ES with some pics...it's simply AWESOME! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't have much time with it or have much time in the next several days but would like to say a few things..
Coming from a JVC RS40 this Sony simply blows it away. Words or pictures cannot describe the quality of the picture
this spits out, one must see it in person, I know pics don't do any projector justice but I will include some for fun.

All settings right out of the box with RC on it's mind blowing on my 150 inch width 2.8 Gain DA-LITE Cinemascope screen.
It is extremely bright, much much brighter than the JVC..no contest on light, resolution and even the blacks I can honestly say
are better on this Sony.

I tried Oblivion and I also tried the Mastered in 4K Blu-ray of Spider Man but I am getting many sparklies when I engage the RC
in 4K I don't know what I'm doing wrong maybe it's my cable? Not sure but I will have to try another cable I had no time today.
Camera is just a point & shoot Sony HX30V set to Auto.












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Cheers
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post #2 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 04:27 PM
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That is one awesome projector - congratulations !! smile.gif

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post #3 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 04:44 PM
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Congratulations, Chris, sounds awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Coming from a JVC RS40 this Sony simply blows it away...

It is extremely bright, much much brighter than the JVC..no contest on light, resolution and even the blacks I can honestly say
are better on this Sony.

Brightness gives the perception of good black in mixed/bright scenes, but how are the blacks in a really dark scene?

Is there an equivalent 2K Sony that looks the same except for resolution?

Noah
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post #4 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 04:52 PM
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Yes, I'm interested in this too. You say "even the blacks..." Is this relative to the JVC? Which one? Or something else?

B.
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post #5 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The PJ is in a batcave so when it fades to black it is pitch black, I can't see anything, unlike the JVC RS40 although
the blacks were great the fade to black was not black, you can still see the grey on the screen.

Cheers
Chris

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post #6 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

The PJ is in a batcave so when it fades to black it is pitch black, I can't see anything, unlike the JVC RS40 although
the blacks were great the fade to black was not black, you can still see the grey on the screen.

That's cool, but if one is just looking at a strict fade to black, then any projector with a dynamic iris should
do that really well, since it actually doesn't have to display an image. The iris just has to close down as much as possible.

I think Noah (and I) would be more interested in dark low APL scenes, without much bright areas in the shots. That's when you actually see the black levels of the projector.

(And, I'm glad to see the Sony looks like a great choice).
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post #7 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

The same could be said about dim projector.

No, because I was talking about the perceptive effect of more brightness, not more dimness, and what I said is corroborated by many, including Rich recently in the JVC New Range thread.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's a fact or that it would be what you see.
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That's cool, but if one is just looking at a strict fade to black, then any projector with a dynamic iris should
do that really well, since it actually doesn't have to display an image. The iris just has to close down as much as possible.

I think Noah (and I) would be more interested in dark low APL scenes, without much bright areas in the shots. That's when you actually see the black levels of the projector.

Yes, exactly.

Noah
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post #8 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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It is hard to put into words, low APL scenes are BETTER than the JVC RS40 low APL scenes imo and for those that have witnessed the JVC will be happier with the blacks of this Sony.

Cheers
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post #9 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 06:16 PM
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Hey Chris. First of all congrats on your new projector. It sounds like you are just loving it to death. I remember coming over to your place when you first received the RS1 and watching it on your painted wall, and then latter after you installed the HP screen. It's amazing how things have changed since then.

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post #10 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

It is hard to put into words, low APL scenes are BETTER than the JVC RS40 low APL scenes imo and for those that have witnessed the JVC will be happier with the blacks of this Sony.

I can actually believe that.

I described something similar upon seeing the Sony VW1000ES with the Alien Blu-Ray. Some low APL scenes actually did look better on it than I've seen with my JVC. But "better" I mean, the low lit images of the spaceship against the black space backdrop were rendered more vividly, clearly, more detailed, and with more shadow detail.
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post #11 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

The PJ is in a batcave so when it fades to black it is pitch black, I can't see anything, unlike the JVC RS40 although
the blacks were great the fade to black was not black, you can still see the grey on the screen.

That's awesome. I currently also have an RS40 with 2.8 HP screen so I know exactly what you mean. For me, the JVC can maintain a blackout for 1-2 seconds before my eyes adjust and it appears gray again.

Your Sony can maintain total black indefinitely even after you let your eyes adjust for a minute or so?

Also, how are letterbox bars on content that doesn't match your screen aspect? Darker or lighter than the JVC?

Any bright corners on black screens? Did you see any on your JVC?
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post #12 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 07:50 PM
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Viewing many many projectors over the years, including every JVC model, I have only once seen a projector not gray a screen with a total black field. And that was an LED machine where the machine shut the LEDs off at 0 ire. One can raise on/off up higher and higher every year and the black bars become less gray and the black field less gray, but they still never are black and you can see what they would look like if black by the hand puppet test. Jumping from say 80,000 to 120,000 to 300000, and its still gray and only a little bit less gray. But so what? I use black masking and not black bars and most of what I watch is not a pure black frame. And I wouldn't pay a lot more to get it if I could.

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post #13 of 128 Old 11-11-2013, 10:44 PM
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The pictures look great wait till you watch some real 4k on it smile.gif

I am blown away every time I power up my 1000es and looking at those pictures that 500es looks DAM close to the 1000 biggrin.gif

Enjoy the heck out of it !!!

Tj8xp.....

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post #14 of 128 Old 11-13-2013, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Viewing many many projectors over the years, including every JVC model, I have only once seen a projector not gray a screen with a total black field. And that was an LED machine where the machine shut the LEDs off at 0 ire. One can raise on/off up higher and higher every year and the black bars become less gray and the black field less gray, but they still never are black and you can see what they would look like if black by the hand puppet test. Jumping from say 80,000 to 120,000 to 300000, and its still gray and only a little bit less gray. But so what? I use black masking and not black bars and most of what I watch is not a pure black frame. And I wouldn't pay a lot more to get it if I could.

No doubt. I notice the same thing using the hand puppet shadow trick. Based on some basic research and testing, I think we would need a projector with ~10,000,000:1 contrast to push black below human detectable threshold when our eyes are fully adapted to the dark. I just don't see any bulb-based projector ever hitting that. You need OLED panel or dimming LED light source. I wonder how close the new top-end JVC will get with claimed 1,500,000:1 dynamic. JVC has always been good about not lying about their native contrast numbers - hopefully that holds for their dynamic numbers too.
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post #15 of 128 Old 11-13-2013, 05:06 AM
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Chris,
I am amazed at the level of detail, contrast and blacks with this combo of 500ES and the 2.8HP. I always thought that a 2.8 HP screen would give up a lot of contrast, blacks and color uniformity to get the gain, this just does not seem to be the case. In my opinion
these screen shots are some of the best I have witnessed so far. Now I am curious how this works for 3D and if you have to turn down the brightness for 2D . Could you please advise if this is the case?

I have the 500 on order as well, supposed to be shipped out today actually. I'm running a 120 diagonal 2.35:1 CIH screen that is 1.37 gain, it's the SI Solar 4K white screen. I'm thinking about a second screen for 3D only but the 2.8 may just do it for me if it looks this good.

I'm going to run some numbers on the Projector Central calculator now to see what is the FL produced on your screen compared to mine using the current HW50ES. Too bright could be an issue...........I have been warned.

Update:
I just ran the numbers, had to plug in the 1000ES instead of the 500ES not as yet on the calculator. With this PJ and the 2.8HP 150" Wide I show you get 34fl at 16ft, at 20ft this drops to 26FL. The same PJ on my screen yields 26FL at 13.5 ft, my current PJ only
24FL from the same distance. With a curved screen you are likely getting even more light back from the screen.

If you are getting this level of brightness you must be lowering the brightness, which I am told also lowers the contrast, however I just do not see that in your pictures.

Since you have a curved screen I was also wondering if you are using a anamorphic lens too, that would add another 25% brightness for sure?
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post #16 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Chris,
I am amazed at the level of detail, contrast and blacks with this combo of 500ES and the 2.8HP. I always thought that a 2.8 HP screen would give up a lot of contrast, blacks and color uniformity to get the gain, this just does not seem to be the case. In my opinion
these screen shots are some of the best I have witnessed so far. Now I am curious how this works for 3D and if you have to turn down the brightness for 2D . Could you please advise if this is the case?

I have the 500 on order as well, supposed to be shipped out today actually. I'm running a 120 diagonal 2.35:1 CIH screen that is 1.37 gain, it's the SI Solar 4K white screen. I'm thinking about a second screen for 3D only but the 2.8 may just do it for me if it looks this good.

I'm going to run some numbers on the Projector Central calculator now to see what is the FL produced on your screen compared to mine using the current HW50ES. Too bright could be an issue...........I have been warned.

Update:
I just ran the numbers, had to plug in the 1000ES instead of the 500ES not as yet on the calculator. With this PJ and the 2.8HP 150" Wide I show you get 34fl at 16ft, at 20ft this drops to 26FL. The same PJ on my screen yields 26FL at 13.5 ft, my current PJ only
24FL from the same distance. With a curved screen you are likely getting even more light back from the screen.

If you are getting this level of brightness you must be lowering the brightness, which I am told also lowers the contrast, however I just do not see that in your pictures.

Since you have a curved screen I was also wondering if you are using a anamorphic lens too, that would add another 25% brightness for sure?

No, an HP screen does not give up a lot of contrast to get the gain, as a matter of fact, to the eyes it seems like the opposite is true. Blacks look blacker than on a lower gain screen.
3-D on this projector is spectacular, considering the size of the screen it is still bright enough because of the gain.

Also, I do not have a curved screen.

Cheers
Chris

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post #17 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

No, an HP screen does not give up a lot of contrast to get the gain, as a matter of fact, to the eyes it seems like the opposite is true. Blacks look blacker than on a lower gain screen.
3-D on this projector is spectacular, considering the size of the screen it is still bright enough because of the gain.

Also, I do not have a curved screen.

Sorry, thought you had a curved screen.

Is your projector mounted in line with the center of the screen then? My current PJ is on the ceiling level with the top of the screen. Mounting it lower could be an issue if I consider a HP screen like you have.
Certainly would not be near as big as yours, but then again it's all relative, I only sit 9ft from the screen .
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post #18 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Sorry, thought you had a curved screen.

Is your projector mounted in line with the center of the screen then? My current PJ is on the ceiling level with the top of the screen. Mounting it lower could be an issue if I consider a HP screen like you have.
Certainly would not be near as big as yours, but then again it's all relative, I only sit 9ft from the screen .

Yes, it's in line with the center of the screen.

My first row of sitting is only 12 feet back from the screen..
My second row of sitting is 22 feet back elevated and I prefer the front row.

Cheers
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post #19 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Yes, it's in line with the center of the screen.

My first row of sitting is only 12 feet back from the screen..
My second row of sitting is 22 feet back elevated and I prefer the front row.

I figured the same, all retro reflective screens require the PJ to be center with the screen. Will have to look at this again, but will be hard to change now.
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post #20 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

...all retro reflective screens require the PJ to be center with the screen...

Not required, you'll just get less than the max gain.

Noah
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post #21 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 08:49 PM
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You can tell Noah does not have his projector mounted with its location maximized to his eye height to achieve maximin gain. And it has nothing to do necessarily with screen vertical center. Its having the projector mounted at or very near your eye height. As you deviate from that optimum as Noah, our beloved deviate here, the gain decreases. Some calculators will actually calculate what gain you will get. My thesis is there are many screens which overall are better screens than the HP 2.4 except in te area of gain. But if you ain't going to get close to 2.4, why not select a better screen? I will leave it to our deviate and other HP fan boys to trash my response as I will be unavailable to post tomorrow for the most part. smile.gif

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post #22 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 10:28 PM
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Yes, true, I get about 1.8 gain, which is still very worthwhile.

Eye height is best only if the center of screen is also eye height; optimum is as small an angle as possible between the line from the pj to the screen center and the line from your eyes to the screen center.

For max advertised gain you can go for zero angle if you don't mind some coldspotting (a shadow of your head in the middle of the screen).

Yeah, too bad about all of the QA issues with the 2.4; I have a 2.8.

Noah
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post #23 of 128 Old 11-14-2013, 10:35 PM
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The issue with most other higher gain screens is you have to deal with sparklies or excessive screen texture. The great thing about the HP material is that there are no sparklies and a very manageable amount of texture. I agree with Mark's point but only if you're getting something like 1.3 gain or lower out of it because at that point there are a ton of better alternatives out there. Another huge plus for the HP material is that it's dirt cheap in comparison to most of the materials Stewart, Screen Innovations, and a few others offer.
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post #24 of 128 Old 11-15-2013, 05:14 AM
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I have the 2.4 HP screen in a 133" 16x9, and the projector is mounted about 4 feet over my head, and according to the "hp screen calculator" around here, i'm getting about 1.8 gain as well, if i can remember right. Looks good to me smile.gif
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post #25 of 128 Old 11-17-2013, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I have the 2.4 HP screen in a 133" 16x9, and the projector is mounted about 4 feet over my head, and according to the "hp screen calculator" around here, i'm getting about 1.8 gain as well, if i can remember right. Looks good to me smile.gif

Post the link please or is that the one from projectorcentral?
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post #26 of 128 Old 11-17-2013, 06:38 AM
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My bad, its not the hp calculator, but it is the all gain screen calculator. Very useful tool

Link:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/966057/all-screen-gain-calculator
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post #27 of 128 Old 11-17-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

My bad, its not the hp calculator, but it is the all gain screen calculator. Very useful tool

Link:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/966057/all-screen-gain-calculator

thanks!
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post #28 of 128 Old 11-18-2013, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Got a different cable and that fixed the sparklies issue.

I must emphasize again that this projector (or the 1100ES) IMO spits out the absolute BEST picture over any other projector regardless of price bar none and I have seen a ton of them including the Lumis.

If you're on the fence and not sure what to do I say if you can afford it don't even think about it, it's that good.

I've now watched 2 3-D Movies (Man of Steel, World War Z) and several 2-D films and I must say although I'm still sensitive to active 3-D I can actually sit through an entire film where as I couldn't with the JVC I had to stop and rest my eyes just 15 min in. 2-D is mind blowing and in my setup the 2.8 gain 150" width screen is a perfect setup, nice and bright and very punchy. I can't imagine a lower gain screen at this size it just wouldn't be the same, I love this new found brightness that I could never get with my JVC.

Kudos to Sony for such a great projector at such a great price. Fwiw The new JVC would have been more money here in Canada than this Sony.

Cheers
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post #29 of 128 Old 11-19-2013, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Got a different cable and that fixed the sparklies issue.

I must emphasize again that this projector (or the 1100ES) IMO spits out the absolute BEST picture over any other projector regardless of price bar none and I have seen a ton of them including the Lumis.

If you're on the fence and not sure what to do I say if you can afford it don't even think about it, it's that good.

I've now watched 2 3-D Movies (Man of Steel, World War Z) and several 2-D films and I must say although I'm still sensitive to active 3-D I can actually sit through an entire film where as I couldn't with the JVC I had to stop and rest my eyes just 15 min in. 2-D is mind blowing and in my setup the 2.8 gain 150" width screen is a perfect setup, nice and bright and very punchy. I can't imagine a lower gain screen at this size it just wouldn't be the same, I love this new found brightness that I could never get with my JVC.

I'm still surprised that you found the blacks better on the Sony vs. your RS40. Most other reviewers found the opposite. Maybe you're being seduced by the brightness which can sometimes give the impression of better blacks? What iris setting were you using on your JVC?

Also, how are you finding the fan-noise on the Sony vs. JVC. I assume you've got them positioned close to your head to maximize gain from the HP screen.
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post #30 of 128 Old 11-19-2013, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

I'm still surprised that you found the blacks better on the Sony vs. your RS40. Most other reviewers found the opposite. Maybe you're being seduced by the brightness which can sometimes give the impression of better blacks? What iris setting were you using on your JVC?

Also, how are you finding the fan-noise on the Sony vs. JVC. I assume you've got them positioned close to your head to maximize gain from the HP screen.

He didn't say it had blacks as good or was quieter. He said it put out a better picture according to the PQ parameters he knows about, is sensitive too, and according to his value rating system.

That doesn't mean some projector could not be ranked higher by someone else. Or that a non PQ issue might trump PW such as being quieter to someone sensitive to other than forum noise.

If blacks are of ultimate importance to one and are weighted by one heavily, a JVC could trump the Sony I suppose in someone's opinion. Not in mine.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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