Owners thread Sony Hw55ES - Page 57 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1681 of 1699 Old 01-23-2015, 03:20 PM
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This is the mock up for the test, impressions shortly.
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post #1682 of 1699 Old 01-23-2015, 05:03 PM
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Eureka!! It works... I am getting the full black out where my eyes can't adjust in my cave that I want... There is definitely a difference in the lowest IREs

I will post settings when I get the color a little better. I can go very low on brightness (35) and use Low Lamp because I have a fully Black Duvetyne covered room, ceiling walls etc, with no reflections or even a single led.


Just as an idea Red gain is -22 and Red Bias is -9, These are slightly different than the German settings ( by -3 most, they are -19 G and -7 B ) Which could be my bulb (1400 hrs ) or my meter or screen or slight filter variation.


User is the main preset and the Color Setting is Preset 5



This is too cool, it is A LOT of bang for the buck.... it is not placebo...


I came upstairs and looked at my 65" Panasonic VT Plasma and actually think I am getting close if not better under certain conditions and material.

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post #1683 of 1699 Old 01-24-2015, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehotaone View Post
Eureka!! It works... I am getting the full black out where my eyes can't adjust in my cave that I want... There is definitely a difference in the lowest IREs

I will post settings when I get the color a little better. I can go very low on brightness (35) and use Low Lamp because I have a fully Black Duvetyne covered room, ceiling walls etc, with no reflections or even a single led.


Just as an idea Red gain is -22 and Red Bias is -9, These are slightly different than the German settings ( by -3 most, they are -19 G and -7 B ) Which could be my bulb (1400 hrs ) or my meter or screen or slight filter variation.


User is the main preset and the Color Setting is Preset 5



This is too cool, it is A LOT of bang for the buck.... it is not placebo...


I came upstairs and looked at my 65" Panasonic VT Plasma and actually think I am getting close if not better under certain conditions and material.

Great man!,


But dont forget if u use lenshift up or down on the sony,


the lens inside the filter need to be put in steep otherwise you can get some reflecting in the image..
And then you need to put on the lens in wich way you use the lensshift
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post #1684 of 1699 Old 01-24-2015, 09:42 AM
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I have mounted with the projection angle in mind.


Here are two iPhone pics, for proof of concept only, I will break out the tripod and 5dMKII for the final ones.

These are actual frame grabs from a video I did...but the difference here is simply putting the filter in place.


Pretty cool.


Message here for any details if you want to try this for less than $30.00 total parts.
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post #1685 of 1699 Old 01-24-2015, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehotaone View Post
I have mounted with the projection angle in mind.


Here are two iPhone pics, for proof of concept only, I will break out the tripod and 5dMKII for the final ones.

These are actual frame grabs from a video I did...but the difference here is simply putting the filter in place.


Pretty cool.


Message here for any details if you want to try this for less than $30.00 total parts.

So the "before" pic is on the left?

I'm going to try this just cause it's so cheap to try but honestly it looks like the picture on the right is just a more properly calibrated image of the one on the left. Are the blacks noticeably darker and I just can't tell from the iPhone pics?

Also how did you account for the lens shift issue?
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post #1686 of 1699 Old 01-24-2015, 12:40 PM
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The point is the filter calibrated the out of control "native" color profile. The lens also has an effect on reducing light scatter and fluorescent illumination of the darker areas.

My point is I believe I replicated the process they are charging $250.00 for ( They should have just sold me one ) Read the whole tuning thread @ cine4home.de (a very reputable site by the way)

The way I have my projector mounted in a soffit, the lens and hood "plugs" the porthole in the sheet rock.. so I just plugged it at the same angle of the light coming out, ( use text or credits paused in a darkened room to see the beam angle) I see no backscatter at all with the filter in place, 0.


The way I can tell my black floor has changed is on a full black out scene, my eyes do not adjust and it would seem to go fully black. If it were not for the slight bright corners these units have the effect would be even more pronounced.

Now, I have the blackest room I have ever personally been in.... is was designed for zero reflections, zero light contamination, and has light absorbing Duvetyne on all surfaces including the full ceiling, and a jet black carpeted floor. There is nothing in there that is not jet black, my phone backlight can be seen on my screen from 21' away, after your eyes adjust

With this being said I am able to discern this difference like it was made for my setup.

30% (quoted by Cine4Home) lower black level for $28.00 is a home run.

Below shows the improvement from their testing (the 3rd pic is without the filter, the last is with it) My cell pics seem to mirror their results. Unfortunately my EyeOne meter will not report a black level this low I am sure.

This is not new, Guy Kuo was doing this when I joined way back in 1999, (I had to rejoin for some reason in 03)
People have gotten away from this due to all the advances, electronics that can achieve similar results. Just not for $30.00. Plus now we have way more efficient light engines with a surplus of lumens when back then 400 lumens calibrated was good.



With all that being said, the black level and contrast presentation rivals my 65" VT Plasma for sure (considering it is projection)
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post #1687 of 1699 Old 01-24-2015, 01:08 PM
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55ES owner here. Mine was new from an authorized installer/dealer in April 2014. Mounted and used starting in May 2014 - with 500 hours on lamp. I have box, all accessories, warranty and lamp certificate. Assuming all that ... what do you all think is a fair selling price? I also have the Sony 3D RF expansion dongle and Xpand RF 3D glasses adapter -- which I could include.

I am thinking of stepping up to the 600ES. Thanks!

CT
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post #1688 of 1699 Old 01-26-2015, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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My sony contrast filter is gonne be up for sale,


Because i can get a good deal on a new projector..


Its 199 euro,ex shipment..


Its a perfectly made filter for the sony hw55es or the 50es..


Send me a pm
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post #1689 of 1699 Old 01-26-2015, 11:32 AM
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What projector are you getting?
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post #1690 of 1699 Old 01-26-2015, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehotaone View Post
What projector are you getting?

If i am Lucky a sony vpl-vw300es
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post #1691 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
My sony contrast filter is gonne be up for sale,


Because i can get a good deal on a new projector..


Its 199 euro,ex shipment..


Its a perfectly made filter for the sony hw55es or the 50es..


Send me a pm

its up for sale here in holland now to...
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post #1692 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 07:25 AM
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So I did what tehotaone did and purchased the filter to see this for myself. Did it work...sort of.

I'm no expert but I had previously calibrated my projector using an i1 display pro and calman. So what I did was copy over the same settings to a different picture preset opened the iris a little more and changed the color temp to custom 5 as instructed on the cine4 website. The picture did look very good and it did look like the blacks got darker, but after watching for a bit something seemed off. I decided to do a full calibration to see if I could tweek it a bit.

Using Calman and my meter showed the greyscale with custom 5 and the filter was way off. I'm really not sure why it looked so pleasing but it didn't measure correctly. I actually had to use color temp custom 2 to get an accurate greyscale. After going through the calibration with the filter the picture looks more alike my original (non filter) picture than not. Do the blacks look darker, possibly but they look very similar. It's just too hard to tell.

Don't get me wrong I think the 30 bucks I paid for the filter was worth it even just to see what it could do. I would be interested to know if the actual filter is any better.

Has anyone else tried this and have any impressions to share?
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post #1693 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 07:33 AM
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Ninja,

Did you set the Bias and Gain settings for the filter first on Preset 5 per the instruction I gave.

I use full Iris as well. I did have to go from the recommended Red settings: -19 Gain to -22, and from -7 Bias to -10 and the greyscale looked pretty good to me.

Please post your " Tiffen " settings BTW


I also have a Hoya MMC from a friend I will try that soon, this is a bit lighter and slightly less tinted.


Like I said in my posts I have a coal black room.



TJ

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post #1694 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehotaone View Post
Ninja,

Did you set the Bias and Gain settings for the filter first on Preset 5 per the instruction I gave.

I use full Iris as well. I did have to go from the recommended Red settings: -19 Gain to -22, and from -7 Bias to -10 and the greyscale looked pretty good to me.

Please post your " Tiffen " settings BTW


I also have a Hoya MMC from a friend I will try that soon, this is a bit lighter and slightly less tinted.


Like I said in my posts I have a coal black room.



TJ
You know what I didnt. I figured I'd start with custom 5 and adjust using my meter. Like I said though it looked good but measured real bad. I ended up using custom 2 and I don't remember my gain or bias settings (I'll have to check) but I know the red and blue gains were lowered significantly where as the bias were just slightly lowered.

I'll try yours just to see if it measures any better.

Also for what it's worth my room is not perfectly dark. I did black out the first 4 feet of the ceiling in front of the screen using velvet but the rest of the room is not a dark color. That may also be why I don't see a difference.
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post #1695 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ninjahifi View Post
You know what I didnt. I figured I'd start with custom 5 and adjust using my meter. Like I said though it looked good but measured real bad. I ended up using custom 2 and I don't remember my gain or bias settings (I'll have to check) but I know the red and blue gains were lowered significantly where as the bias were just slightly lowered.

I'll try yours just to see if it measures any better.

Also for what it's worth my room is not perfectly dark. I did black out the first 4 feet of the ceiling in front of the screen using velvet but the rest of the room is not a dark color. That may also be why I don't see a difference.
Yeah you have to pull the Gain and Bias settings for the Red control

Start at Gain -19 and sweep to -22

Bias at -7 and sweep to -11



Love to hear what the meter says (does your Display pro read low black level, sorry I have an old EyeOne Display 2) Use Custom 5 only and keep the DI on with it set to FULL not Limited..... be sure to follow contrast and brightness adjustments accorning to a spec disc....also I use contrast enhance Medium and 2.4 gamma.

The testing should be done under dark conditions, and optimal critical viewing conditions.

If you look at the difference in the pics below, you can tell it would take the right environment to appreciate it. But the haze reduction and drop is noticeable.




It was designed for the Red settings for sure
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post #1696 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 05:43 PM
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Dear all,

Sorry in advance for the long rant...


I had a (long) (mis)adventure with Sony's Suport (Prime Support, as I live in France). Of course, all cases are specific, I was probably on the unluckier side of things. And I do hope that most of their projectors do not have issues as bad as what I got.


I was the owner of an older HW model, soon reaching its end of warranty (mid January). It had started to develop a greenish zone, on the lower thrid of the image... so beginning of November, I called Support. Return is OK, they test it, and find a problem with the optical bloc. Since my old model is no longer built, and it'd cost more to repair it than offer a replacement, they propose a HW55 in exchange. So far, that's great service. According to them, the projector is supposedly new...

Once I receive it, big surprise: it's not new, but refurbished. And, it has a lot of micro-scratches on its top cover (Sony HW projectors get easily scratched... obviously, its previous owner didn't take much care of it). Even worse, its picture has uneven color shifts: there's a slightly greener zone, a slightly yellower zone, other parts are somewhat reddish, etc... So that's far from perfect. Support says the refurbished projector was tested OK, but eventually accepted a return, for testing purposes.

So it gets tested: a faulty optical bloc is diagnosed (once again). So they ship me a new HW55, this time brand new. So far, that's OK...


The replacement arrives. This time, it's new. But, alas, it's not free from issues. Using textual contents for testing purposes, I can see that its focusing is not even accross the picture. When focusing on the center part of the image, the lower left corner would actually focus "in front" of the screen (perhaps more than one meter/ yard in front of the screen... that's really a lot), as I tested by moving a sheet of paper. The upper right corner focuses further away "to the rear" of the screen, the difference here isn't as much compared to the center. This shows that the lens has de-centering issues...

For references, here are some test images (that I did send to Sony). As I took the picture with a smartphone, quite close to the screen, you can see the shadow of my hand and of the phone on the screen (it's the shadow, not my hand and my phone themselves..). The shadow itself is sharp, it's actually a good reference to determine what "sharp" would be.


- focus made on the centre, picture shows the centre of the screen: it's nicely sharp, as it should be.
- focus made on the centre (unchanged), picture shows the top right corner: it isn't as sharp. Could still be within acceptable limits, though one could have hoped for better results...
- focus made on the centre (unchanged), picture shows the bottom left corner: well, THAT is something I'd call blurry... And definitely not acceptable, for a product that is definitely not an entry-level projector.

- focus made on the bottom left corner, picture shows the bottom left corner: Using the focusing ring, I try to get a sharper picture on the bottom left corner. I cannot reach the sharpness I had in the center, but it does show the corner can focus... If I could have had that while keeping a sharp pciture elsewhere, I would have been happy...
- focus made on the bottom left corner (unchanged), picture shows the top right corner: Of course, by trying to improve the bottom left corner, I made the rest of the picture very blurry...

- focus made on the top right corner, picture shows the top right corner: Just to get a glimpse how bad it could get, now I focus using the top right corner as reference...
- focus made on the top right corner (unchanged), picture shows the bottom left corner: ... and as expected, the bottom left corner is now VERY blurry.



Thus, I ask support to take it back. Sony does accept to take it back for testing purposes, I'm still within warranty - last days... "Strangely" enough, the address on the return package is not the same as before.
And in the meantime, warranty runs out...

Very little communication... When calling them on the phone, someone answers a part has been ordered, then another time that repairs were ongoing, yet another time that there was a fault on the optical bloc... And then, no, they tell me that no tests were conducted, and that the technician would only be back next week (!). And later the same day, a technician was there, did test the unit... ans they considered that everything was OK!
Ouch...

According to them, my projector has no focus issues (it's not what I'd think, considering how the pictures look). They tell me that the picture can't be perfect in all corners, due the the way the product is built (but such a defocus is clearly a manufacturing issue, due to improper QC and poor tolerances... if that's really what Sony considers as "normal performance", as per design, then I'd hope it gets widely published and shared...). So, they tell, I should find a middle ground (so, I should get a blurry picture everywhere, so that the bottom left corner is not unacceptable?).
To add insult to injury, they even answer that, if I really expect better performance, I should buy myself a VW1000ES... (no comment).

Of course, there's no alternative. Calling them changes nothing: a qualified technician tested it, they found it was OK, the product leader checked and agreed... end of story.


To be honest, I do know that a plastic lens won't have the quality of professional optics, which range $1000+ a piece and more. I know that compromises have to be made, at this price point. But such a focusing issue... no, that's not within acceptable limits. Even with design compromises, a lens should be symmetrical around its axis... here, that's not the case.

Needless to say, I'm not satisfied at all. And since they decided to handle the issue that way, I have little choice but to rant here (sorry for that).

Of course, what I write is subjective - like any testimony. Sony would probably say that I'm asking too much, that I would never be satisfied (actually, if I had the sharpness of the refurbished HW55 with the colour uniformity of the new replacement, I'd have been happy - couldn't you just fit a lens from a projector you scrapped for other reasons?), that they did everything they could. But was it too much to ask for less zonal colour shifts? (and Sony themselves diagnosed that projector as faulty...). Is it too much to consider that the lens focus issue above is not acceptable?
Your choice... if THAT kind of focus is what Sony considers as within specs, then I really cannot advise anyone to buy a HW-series projector.
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post #1697 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 05:50 PM
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Looks like I can't edit the previous post (?).

Pictures are in the following order, in the thumbnails:

- focus made on the top right corner, picture shows the top right corner of the screen
- focus made on the top right corner, picture shows the bottom left corner

- focus made on the centre, picture shows the top right corner
- focus made on the centre, picture shows the centre of the screen
- focus made on the centre, picture shows the bottom left corner

- focus made on the bottom left corner, picture shows the top right corner
- focus made on the bottom left corner, picture shows the bottom left corner

Not the best order, but it seems I can't change it...
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post #1698 of 1699 Old 01-27-2015, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
My sony contrast filter is gonne be up for sale,


Because i can get a good deal on a new projector..


Its 199 euro,ex shipment..


Its a perfectly made filter for the sony hw55es or the 50es..


Send me a pm
You shipping to the states?
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post #1699 of 1699 Unread Today, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
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Dear all,
To be honest, I do know that a plastic lens won't have the quality of professional optics, which range $1000+ a piece and more. I know that compromises have to be made, at this price point. But such a focusing issue... no, that's not within acceptable limits. Even with design compromises, a lens should be symmetrical around its axis... here, that's not the case.
Yeah there seems to be some variation between the lenses they are using. My original HW50 had more blurry picture on the left side of the screen when middle and right side were in focus. Similar difference as in your pictures as I remember. I managed to adjust it into a point where I would be conscious of it only when reading text and I decided not to bother complaining about it. But when that projector started flickering, it got sent back to Sony's Prime support. They sent the same unit back with its power fixed, lamp replaced, and blue color panel broken.

I sent them a picture of the image the projector produced, and then they replaced it with a new HW55 (or at least I believe it is new), which has got very uniform focus, so I got kind of lucky there. However this unit has developed the same flickering problem I had with the original HW50. It is going to get sent back soonish as well, so their support will be tested once again...

Regardless, I must say I have been quite happy with the way Sony support conducts service, apart from the fact that I keep getting faulty units. Imagine this many problems combined with bad service :I

Also I should mention that I have notoriously bad luck with any technology I buy. It is ALWAYS faulty, occasionally in very unexpected ways. I once even owned *passive* speakers that behaved in such a strange way in my household with any electronics, but flawlessly everywhere else, that even the manufacturer could not figure it out. Just gave me a new pair eventually, even though they could not measure what the difference was, yet the problem was plainly observable (a popping and snapping noise from the bass element). The store I bought the speakers from even came in to test it in with some high end electronics including electricity filters, which also changed nothing.

So... I have kind of grown very very patient when it comes to faulty technology...
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