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Old 10-28-2015, 09:22 AM
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Just bumping this to see if anyone has any info on this... my apologies but deciding on projector soon... This or the Epson 6030UB
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:42 PM
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Here's your generic answer _ wait until after CEDIA... I am sure the deals for the 55 are tempting, but if it were me, I would wait _ this is my gut reaction.
I believe there is a new model that's planned to replace the 55es and hopefully it will have motorized zoom and focus _ if that's important to you.
So, I was real patient and waited! Well, I forgot about upgrading for a while until I just remembered it again, so that's pretty much the same thing, right?

Anyway, CEDIA has come and gone and it looks like the HW55ES will be replaced by the HW65ES, which apparently comes with 100 more lumens, RF glasses, and not much else.

I'm faced with the same basic question: Is there a projector with a (street) price of $3k or less out there that's going to give me the "oh wow, what an upgrade" feeling when compared to my current AE7000? Have the last 4 years just been a lot of spinning of wheels and minor improvements? Should I be asking this in the sub-$3,000 forum? What should I make for dinner tonight?
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xamphear View Post
So, I was real patient and waited! Well, I forgot about upgrading for a while until I just remembered it again, so that's pretty much the same thing, right?

Anyway, CEDIA has come and gone and it looks like the HW55ES will be replaced by the HW65ES, which apparently comes with 100 more lumens, RF glasses, and not much else.

I'm faced with the same basic question: Is there a projector with a (street) price of $3k or less out there that's going to give me the "oh wow, what an upgrade" feeling when compared to my current AE7000? Have the last 4 years just been a lot of spinning of wheels and minor improvements? Should I be asking this in the sub-$3,000 forum? What should I make for dinner tonight?
A little above your budget, but I would take a look at a JVC RS400.

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Old 10-28-2015, 12:46 PM
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Because the projector is showing the capability to be "clean" with other playback content, could it really be defective? I don't know if that's possible if other 1080p content looks fine through the projector....just sayin'.
But I'll ask again: is anyone else noticing the high-grain picture on blu-rays compared to everything else? I mean, it's really bad to a point that other people have asked me why the picture is so grainy.

Here are the blu-rays I've seen it on (which is all blu-rays I've tried except for Ratatouille, which is animated and does not show the grain):

Star Wars Collection - any movie
Lord of the Rings - any movie
Interstellar
Iron Man series

And my second question is, would moving to a new projector (like an JVC X500 or X700) eliminate this grain effect?
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by xamphear View Post
So, I was real patient and waited! Well, I forgot about upgrading for a while until I just remembered it again, so that's pretty much the same thing, right?

Anyway, CEDIA has come and gone and it looks like the HW55ES will be replaced by the HW65ES, which apparently comes with 100 more lumens, RF glasses, and not much else.

I'm faced with the same basic question: Is there a projector with a (street) price of $3k or less out there that's going to give me the "oh wow, what an upgrade" feeling when compared to my current AE7000? Have the last 4 years just been a lot of spinning of wheels and minor improvements? Should I be asking this in the sub-$3,000 forum? What should I make for dinner tonight?
Not for under $3K, but if you can stretch that budget ever so slightly for a pre order JVC RS400, I'd say you would see an improvement picture wise.

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Old 10-28-2015, 01:23 PM
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Not for under $3K, but if you can stretch that budget ever so slightly for a pre order JVC RS400, I'd say you would see an improvement picture wise.
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A little above your budget, but I would take a look at a JVC RS400.
These are good answers, and I appreciate them. I'd consider splashing out $4k for the JVC if it weren't for their input lag problems. Over 100ms of input lag is a deal breaker unfortunately, otherwise I'd probably already have a JVC in the house.

But yeah, the overall pattern is clear. I'll keep using what I got and wait for more improvements to trickle down into the lower end units. I'm not sure why I'm disappointed (since I don't have to spend any money and can keep using what I already have) but I guess I am. Oh well! Thanks for the info and advice.
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:19 PM
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Anyway, CEDIA has come and gone and it looks like the HW65ES will be replaced by the HW65ES, which apparently comes with 100 more lumens, RF glasses, and not much else.
I'm actually glad it isn't that tempting - because I'm tired of waiting for my room to be done. I'm going to just get the HW55ES and not wait for the HW65ES.

Four upgrades that I see are:

- 100 more lumens
- RF 3D (no glasses come with it anymore though!)
- Updated Reality Creation engine (I'll probably use Darbee anyway)
- 6000 hours in low lamp mode (vs 5000 hours)

Funny thing is that even reading the manual for the HW65ES, it says nothing about what the lamp life is on high lamp. Is it still 2000 hours? I can't find the answer to that anywhere.

I'm only looking at $3000 for the HW55ES and $4000 for the HW65ES, and I just don't see it being worth $1000 more. $500 maybe, but not $1000, especially taking away the glasses, that's just corny.

EDIT: You'll also want to pay attention to the inputs on the HW65ES. They added Ethernet, but took away Component input and 15-pin RGB input. I'd at least like to see displayport and/or DVI, that would rock.

So I'm definitely with your later post - don't bother upgrading yet. I'd keep waiting until 4K becomes more affordable (and brighter). Instead, put $4000 in savings and wait. Or use your upgrade-itis (we all get it!) on something different in your setup
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
Because the projector is showing the capability to be "clean" with other playback content, could it really be defective? I don't know if that's possible if other 1080p content looks fine through the projector....just sayin'.
But I'll ask again: is anyone else noticing the high-grain picture on blu-rays compared to everything else? I mean, it's really bad to a point that other people have asked me why the picture is so grainy.

Here are the blu-rays I've seen it on (which is all blu-rays I've tried except for Ratatouille, which is animated and does not show the grain):

Star Wars Collection - any movie
Lord of the Rings - any movie
Interstellar
Iron Man series

And my second question is, would moving to a new projector (like an JVC X500 or X700) eliminate this grain effect?
I briefly had the 40es and saw a ton of grain when watching the Bluray of Jurassic Park. So much so it made me return the projector. I'm not sure if the projector is much sharper so that it shows the film grain more prominently. I was coming from owning a Panny 8000 that had a very soft image.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:38 PM
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Im from Houston and I just bought one 2 days ago for $2,999. So far im loving it.
Are you sure you bought the HW65ES (brand new model)? That's not showing as released yet in the US. Likely you got the HW55ES (model that's been out a little while)

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Old 10-29-2015, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
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Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
Because the projector is showing the capability to be "clean" with other playback content, could it really be defective? I don't know if that's possible if other 1080p content looks fine through the projector....just sayin'.
But I'll ask again: is anyone else noticing the high-grain picture on blu-rays compared to everything else? I mean, it's really bad to a point that other people have asked me why the picture is so grainy.

Here are the blu-rays I've seen it on (which is all blu-rays I've tried except for Ratatouille, which is animated and does not show the grain):

Star Wars Collection - any movie
Lord of the Rings - any movie
Interstellar
Iron Man series

And my second question is, would moving to a new projector (like an JVC X500 or X700) eliminate this grain effect?
I briefly had the 40es and saw a ton of grain when watching the Bluray of Jurassic Park. So much so it made me return the projector. I'm not sure if the projector is much sharper so that it shows the film grain more prominently. I was coming from owning a Panny 8000 that had a very soft image.
There we go. Yeah, it's very distracting to me on the 55ES.

Watched mkv of Inside Out last night and an episode of Homeland on mkv on my Oppo and it had very little grain.

Put in Batman Dark Knight blu Ray and it was full of grain.
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Old 10-29-2015, 04:58 AM
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I briefly had the 40es and saw a ton of grain when watching the Bluray of Jurassic Park. So much so it made me return the projector. I'm not sure if the projector is much sharper so that it shows the film grain more prominently. I was coming from owning a Panny 8000 that had a very soft image.

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But I'll ask again: is anyone else noticing the high-grain picture on blu-rays compared to everything else? I mean, it's really bad to a point that other people have asked me why the picture is so grainy.


You have to turn the reality creation settings to 0 or close to it to get rid of the over processing and grain.

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Old 10-29-2015, 05:03 AM
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I briefly had the 40es and saw a ton of grain when watching the Bluray of Jurassic Park. So much so it made me return the projector. I'm not sure if the projector is much sharper so that it shows the film grain more prominently. I was coming from owning a Panny 8000 that had a very soft image.

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But I'll ask again: is anyone else noticing the high-grain picture on blu-rays compared to everything else? I mean, it's really bad to a point that other people have asked me why the picture is so grainy.


You have to turn the reality creation settings to 0 or close to it to get rid of the over processing and grain.
I have already done that. RC at min. Grain is still rampant.
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Old 10-29-2015, 05:08 AM
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I have already done that. RC at min. Grain is still rampant.


Maybe it's your player? Do you have darbee or any processing turned on in your AVR or BluRay Player. Is you're player setup to output 1080p? I would turn all video processing off and let only the Sony handle it.

I've watched some of the same movies listed on a 165" screen and the image is insane. Beautiful image.

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Old 10-29-2015, 05:10 AM
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I have already done that. RC at min. Grain is still rampant.
Unless you are using different inputs on the projector and have them calibrated differently there is nothing wrong with the projector. Turn off sharpness, RC, and any edge enhancement options present (I'm not by my projector now so I can't remember what is available). Check your blu ray player for any post processing options too.

There is nothing different between a blu ray disc and a not re-encoded MKV of a disc. If you are downloading files on the internet that are re-encoded people overcompress them which will soften the picture. There is nothing wrong with grain. Things shot of film have it to different degrees. I was happy with my projector after playing around with it, and even happier when UMR calibrated it properly.
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:27 AM
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I have already done that. RC at min. Grain is still rampant.
Unless you are using different inputs on the projector and have them calibrated differently there is nothing wrong with the projector. Turn off sharpness, RC, and any edge enhancement options present (I'm not by my projector now so I can't remember what is available). Check your blu ray player for any post processing options too.

There is nothing different between a blu ray disc and a not re-encoded MKV of a disc. If you are downloading files on the internet that are re-encoded people overcompress them which will soften the picture. There is nothing wrong with grain. Things shot of film have it to different degrees. I was happy with my projector after playing around with it, and even happier when UMR calibrated it properly.
All post processing is turned off. I think it's because the sonys expose the grain of any is on the original film source.

I disagree that there is no difference between blu Ray and mkv. The person who encoded the mkv may have smoothed things out.

I had an old Epson 1080UB before that while not as vibrant as the 55 of course, never exhibited anywhere near this much grain on blu Ray sources.
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:46 AM
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Well something is up. With the same movies others experience a very smooth image. A head scratcher.
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:07 AM
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All post processing is turned off. I think it's because the sonys expose the grain of any is on the original film source.

I disagree that there is no difference between blu Ray and mkv. The person who encoded the mkv may have smoothed things out.

I had an old Epson 1080UB before that while not as vibrant as the 55 of course, never exhibited anywhere near this much grain on blu Ray sources.
What he said was that there isn't any difference between an MKV that hasn't been re encoded and the source BR. I rip all my BR purchases to MKV as a 1:1 rip and there isn't. I tested multiple file format using movies that were shot on film, digitally, and animated films as well. There was no discernible difference between the source BR, a 1:1 MKV, and the ISO files that I tested with.

Re encoding on the other hand can certainly soften the image which will minimize any film grain.

Looky here!
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:29 AM
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There we go. Yeah, it's very distracting to me on the 55ES.

Watched mkv of Inside Out last night and an episode of Homeland on mkv on my Oppo and it had very little grain.

Put in Batman Dark Knight blu Ray and it was full of grain.
The Dark Knight is a movie with a lot of grain.
You should turn off Reality Creation or set it to min when you're watching a grainy movie.
If you don't do that, RC will also make the grain more visible.

Actually I have my Realiy Creation always set to min. And for old movies I turn it off if there's too much grain.

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Old 10-29-2015, 08:37 AM
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The Dark Knight is a movie with a lot of grain.
You should turn off Reality Creation or set it to min when you're watching a grainy movie.
If you don't do that, RC will also make the grain more visible.

Actually I have my Realiy Creation always set to min. And for old movies I turn it off if there's too much grain.
As stated before, RC is at min and Darbee is out of the chain. Still very grainy.

Why haven't I noticed this before with other projectors I've had and seen?
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:41 AM
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As stated before, RC is at min and Darbee is out of the chain. Still very grainy.

Why haven't I noticed this before with other projectors I've had and seen?
I don't think you'll get an answer that will satisfy you. The big problem is that this is a subjective argument. What constitutes annoying film grain for you may be perfectly acceptable for others. The Dark Knight BR, especially the 35mm segments has a good deal of film grain. That's all there is to it. Maybe you're finally using a projector that doesn't' mask the grain behind a soft image
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:50 AM
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I don't think you'll get an answer that will satisfy you. The big problem is that this is a subjective argument. What constitutes annoying film grain for you may be perfectly acceptable for others. The Dark Knight BR, especially the 35mm segments has a good deal of film grain. That's all there is to it. Maybe you're finally using a projector that doesn't' mask the grain behind a soft image

I think you're probably right. I'm trading it up likely for one of the newer JVC's (X750 likely) for other reasons than just the grain issue. I would imagine if the grain ins in the source, then that projector would also show it.

I'll have to adjust to that.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:14 PM
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HI everyone, I just bought a hw55es for my home theater and I am doing some research as to what 3d glasses I should buy (since it came with none). I need both adult and kid sized glasses - and my research online and on the phone with sony revealed that for adult glasses best option vis-a-vis price are the the PS3 3D glasses, but I am having some trouble finding anything kid sized. I have read that if you get some sort of polarizing filter/sheets that go onto TDG-BR50 type glasses then they will work with HW55es, but I have yet to find anywhere online to buy it... In any event i am looking for any advice that owners of this projector have as to which kid/adult 3d glasses work well.

On another note, I was wandering if anyone has experience with the HW55es paired with the Navitar HD Screenstar lens .08 for increasing the screensize...

I understand that everyone in the thread have been at this much longer than I have, but all help will be much appreciated.

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Old 10-29-2015, 05:36 PM
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Unless you are using different inputs on the projector and have them calibrated differently there is nothing wrong with the projector. Turn off sharpness, RC, and any edge enhancement options present (I'm not by my projector now so I can't remember what is available). Check your blu ray player for any post processing options too.

There is nothing different between a blu ray disc and a not re-encoded MKV of a disc. If you are downloading files on the internet that are re-encoded people overcompress them which will soften the picture. There is nothing wrong with grain. Things shot of film have it to different degrees. I was happy with my projector after playing around with it, and even happier when UMR calibrated it properly.
Jeff recommended the 55ES to me when he calibrated my VW60. It was a solid recommendation.

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Old 10-29-2015, 06:31 PM
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I briefly had the 40es and saw a ton of grain when watching the Bluray of Jurassic Park. So much so it made me return the projector. I'm not sure if the projector is much sharper so that it shows the film grain more prominently. I was coming from owning a Panny 8000 that had a very soft image.
Outside of the grain. Wich pic did you prefer the Sony 40 or Penny 8000?
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:39 PM
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I briefly had the 40es and saw a ton of grain when watching the Bluray of Jurassic Park. So much so it made me return the projector. I'm not sure if the projector is much sharper so that it shows the film grain more prominently. I was coming from owning a Panny 8000 that had a very soft image.
Outside of the grain. Wich pic did you prefer the Sony 40 or Penny 8000?
To be totally honest, I couldn't really tell the difference between the two. Panny has a somewhat softer image. But that's it really. My room is not a batcave, so that probably levels the playing field quiet a bit.
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:45 AM
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Jeff recommended the 55ES to me when he calibrated my VW60. It was a solid recommendation.
I had Jeff calibrate my XBR1 many years ago, a Samsung C7000 plasma half of many years ago, and consulted with him as I was building my theater and he recommended the 55ES. I regret nothing. He also calibrated the sound system for my XBR1 setup. It was great and made a different.

This past March he came to calibrate the 55ES and my sound system with it. The projector still puts me in a state of awe after having it hooked up for nearly a year. The job he did on the theater sound though... wow. Completely worth the money on all fronts.
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Old 10-30-2015, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ilyag View Post
HI everyone, I just bought a hw55es for my home theater and I am doing some research as to what 3d glasses I should buy (since it came with none). I need both adult and kid sized glasses - and my research online and on the phone with sony revealed that for adult glasses best option vis-a-vis price are the the PS3 3D glasses, but I am having some trouble finding anything kid sized. I have read that if you get some sort of polarizing filter/sheets that go onto TDG-BR50 type glasses then they will work with HW55es, but I have yet to find anywhere online to buy it... In any event i am looking for any advice that owners of this projector have as to which kid/adult 3d glasses work well.
PS3 glasses work great with my hw50es and fit my 10 & 12 year old kids just fine.
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Old 10-30-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by dbturbo2 View Post
PS3 glasses work great with my hw50es and fit my 10 & 12 year old kids just fine.
Thanks for the confirmation, but my issue is that my kids are younger 4 and 7 - so i have tried adult size glasses on them but they are a little to big – of course absent any other option will do what we need to, but if anyone had the experience with kid sized glasses I would love to hear about it.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:17 PM
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To be totally honest, I couldn't really tell the difference between the two. Panny has a somewhat softer image. But that's it really. My room is not a batcave, so that probably levels the playing field quiet a bit.
Thank you.
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:05 AM
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A local dealer told me the HW55ES was discontinued, and they only sold the HW40ES, until such time as the HW65ES comes out...

Is that really true? I'm assuming I can get HW55ES units until the HW65ES comes out (which could be anytime) - anyone know for sure?

Hardware and System engineer. Enjoy theaters, automation, media and the outdoors.
Love the hobby, but always have to remember to keep family first!
"The Escape Pod" - First Theater Build
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