DLP, LCD, LCoS -- which is better for sports/movies? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 11-12-2013, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
I know there is probably not a simple answer to this, but I would like to know:

1) what technology is better for sports
2) what technology is better for movies


Thank you for your comments.

Tim
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post #2 of 24 Old 11-12-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Almost forgot about SXRD...
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post #3 of 24 Old 11-12-2013, 08:31 PM
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Depends on which price point. If funds are no issue then a 3 chip dlp is the best, but they are very expensive.

In the realms of a more normal budget, single chip dlps will provide the sharpest images but will have weaker blacks, lcos will not be as sharp but have better blacks. Color once calibrated is very similar among equivalent projectors, dlp and lcd have the brightest projectors and dlps have essentially cross talk free 3d (both lcos and lcd cannot compete with dlp for 3d) and should handle motion better then lcos and lcd.

It all comes down to what you prioritize and of course your room will also effect what the more suited projector is as well. Some people can also see what is called the rainbow effect with dlps, I can't comment much on this as I cannot see it at all, it is something to be aware of though. Personally I would say LCD is the weakest tech but they also have some of the best projectors at the sub $5000 price point so the tech alone is not what you should be looking at, rather the individual projector.

Also SXRD as far as i'm aware is just another word for lcos.

There is as you can tell no correct answer (unless you are in the 'super' high end market) as both lcos and dlp have their pros and cons and lcd have some truly excellent projectors at the 'lower' end.
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post #4 of 24 Old 11-12-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Depends on which price point. If funds are no issue then a 3 chip dlp is the best, but they are very expensive.



In the realms of a more normal budget, single chip dlps will provide the sharpest images but will have weaker blacks, lcos will not be as sharp but have better blacks. Color once calibrated is very similar among equivalent projectors, dlp and lcd have the brightest projectors and dlps have essentially cross talk free 3d (both lcos and lcd cannot compete with dlp for 3d) and should handle motion better then lcos and lcd.



It all comes down to what you prioritize and of course your room will also effect what the more suited projector is as well. Some people can also see what is called the rainbow effect with dlps, I can't comment much on this as I cannot see it at all, it is something to be aware of though. Personally I would say LCD is the weakest tech but they also have some of the best projectors at the sub $5000 price point so the tech alone is not what you should be looking at, rather the individual projector.



Also SXRD as far as i'm aware is just another word for lcos.



There is as you can tell no correct answer (unless you are in the 'super' high end market) as both lcos and dlp have their pros and cons and lcd have some truly excellent projectors at the 'lower' end.

 




Thanks for your comments. Are you pretty familiar with the projectors out there? I don't know much, but I think I have narrowed it down to the JVC DLA-RS4810(or 4910), Runco LS-3, and the Sony VPL HW50es(or 55es). Do you have any opinions of these three? (mostly for sports and movies). Lighting is not perfect but contolled in an open room.

Thank you!
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post #5 of 24 Old 11-12-2013, 11:00 PM
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I have not seen that runco or the sony so I can only go from what I have heard regarding those two projectors. So you watch movies and sport, which one to you is more important? do you watch sports with the lights on? How important is 3d to you? Do you game at all, or plan to game on the projector? What color is the roof floor and walls of the room the projector will be in? What is the size of the room? What will the viewing distance be? These are all things one needs to know before any real suggestions can be made.
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post #6 of 24 Old 11-12-2013, 11:24 PM
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Someone asked basically the same question a few days ago in another thread. Here was my response:
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I used to own a Planar PD8150 (an earlier incarnation of the Runco LS-5 before Planar bought Runco) and now the JVC X55R (pro version of the RS4810). Both have their own strengths. Both are excellent projectors. There is no clear cut answer on which is truly better so don't expect to get one. The 4810 has it's strength in native on/off contrast performance and the LS-3 has it's strengths with image sharpness, better motion handling, and a more "3D" look with brighter content. The Runco is more of a "plug n' play" projector in that it comes almost fully calibrated out of the box, whereas the the JVC needs a bit of help with color performance.

My suggestion would be to demo each and make a decision for yourself as to which one you like more. Like I said, after owning both, neither is clearly the better projector. Both have street prices within a few hundred dollars of one another, which makes the decision that much more difficult to make. Know that the LS-3 and LS-5 are probably the best DLP projectors currently in the under $10000 projector market and the JVC DLA-RS4810 is best value out of all the projectors JVC is currently putting out.

For sports the LS-3 is going to be better because of it's superior motion handling with higher fps content and a more "3D pop" look with brighter content such as sports. The JVC won't look bad but the LS-3 will perform better. With movies I'd recommend the RS4810. While the LS-3 does a great job with overall contrast and black levels, the JVC is noticeably better and that is a huge plus for movies as most movies have dark scenes in them unlike sports. The LS-3 will have a sharper image overall and personally I think the LS-3 has a slightly more refined overall image. These two perform very well in most areas but do have differences and as I said before, neither are the clear cut winner. Both are going to outperform the Sony in most areas. The Sony is all around well performer that doesn't outperform the two combined in any area regarding picture quality. The Sony is a brighter projector which makes it more suitable for 3D, but you don't seem interested in that. If you plan on watching a lot of sports (more than a couple games a week) I'd recommend the LS-3, but if you plan on watching a lot more movies get the 4810. Neither projector is a bad choice but this decision will ultimately come down to your viewing habits and which projector is the best match for them.

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post #7 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Neither projector is a bad choice but this decision will ultimately come down to your viewing habits and which projector is the best match for them.

Agreed, though I would say the sharpness of a dlp may win out over black levels even for films for some. One really has to endeavor to see the projectors (preferably calibrated) themselves to really know which one is best for them. I would say if the OP is looking for a ls3 it may be worth looking at a b stock rs5 or the identical planar that you have. As a side note I will say I don't fell one has really seen 3d until they have seen it at home with a good dlp projector.
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post #8 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 07:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Someone asked basically the same question a few days ago in another thread. Here was my response:
For sports the LS-3 is going to be better because of it's superior motion handling with higher fps content and a more "3D pop" look with brighter content such as sports. The JVC won't look bad but the LS-3 will perform better. With movies I'd recommend the RS4810. While the LS-3 does a great job with overall contrast and black levels, the JVC is noticeably better and that is a huge plus for movies as most movies have dark scenes in them unlike sports. The LS-3 will have a sharper image overall and personally I think the LS-3 has a slightly more refined overall image. These two perform very well in most areas but do have differences and as I said before, neither are the clear cut winner. Both are going to outperform the Sony in most areas. The Sony is all around well performer that doesn't outperform the two combined in any area regarding picture quality. The Sony is a brighter projector which makes it more suitable for 3D, but you don't seem interested in that. If you plan on watching a lot of sports (more than a couple games a week) I'd recommend the LS-3, but if you plan on watching a lot more movies get the 4810. Neither projector is a bad choice but this decision will ultimately come down to your viewing habits and which projector is the best match for them.
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post #9 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Someone asked basically the same question a few days ago in another thread. Here was my response:
For sports the LS-3 is going to be better because of it's superior motion handling with higher fps content and a more "3D pop" look with brighter content such as sports. The JVC won't look bad but the LS-3 will perform better. With movies I'd recommend the RS4810. While the LS-3 does a great job with overall contrast and black levels, the JVC is noticeably better and that is a huge plus for movies as most movies have dark scenes in them unlike sports. The LS-3 will have a sharper image overall and personally I think the LS-3 has a slightly more refined overall image. These two perform very well in most areas but do have differences and as I said before, neither are the clear cut winner. Both are going to outperform the Sony in most areas. The Sony is all around well performer that doesn't outperform the two combined in any area regarding picture quality. The Sony is a brighter projector which makes it more suitable for 3D, but you don't seem interested in that. If you plan on watching a lot of sports (more than a couple games a week) I'd recommend the LS-3, but if you plan on watching a lot more movies get the 4810. Neither projector is a bad choice but this decision will ultimately come down to your viewing habits and which projector is the best match for them.
hank you very much for your answer. This helps me out a lot!!
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Agreed, though I would say the sharpness of a dlp may win out over black levels even for films for some. One really has to endeavor to see the projectors (preferably calibrated) themselves to really know which one is best for them. I would say if the OP is looking for a ls3 it may be worth looking at a b stock rs5 or the identical planar that you have. As a side note I will say I don't fell one has really seen 3d until they have seen it at home with a good dlp projector.[/quote
Thank you very much. What is a b stock rs5?
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post #11 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you very much. What is a b stock rs5?

And to answer your previous post...
This will not be a dedicated film room. This will be in an open basement. Lights will often be on, but not right in front of the screen or viewing area. The walls the screen will be on in fairly dark brown. The other walls are light tan. Ceiling is white.
The viewing distance should be around 15-16 ft.
3d is not that important. Sports and movies are equally important...which is part of the reason I am struggling with this.

Thanks again!
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post #12 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 12:15 PM
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If the lights will be on frequently the contrast advantage the JVC has over the Runco will be gone as the ambient light will wash out the image somewhat are ruin the inky blacks the JVC is capable of.

A b-stock unit is one that has cosmetic defects such as scratches or other blemishes, issues that don't effect the working condition of the projector, just the aesthetic look of the bezel. You can buy these fully functional units for a discounted price over a normal "A-stock" projector. I don't know where one would get b-stock Runco units. I know AVScience sells b-stock projectors but they don't carry Runco products.

I would highly reconsider the ambient in the room, it's going to kill the performance of both projectors. You may as well buy a large 70" LCD flat instead if you know there's going to be ambient light in the room. The only other alternative would be to buy a screen like a Screen Innovations Black Diamond screen.

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post #13 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim821 View Post

Thank you very much. What is a b stock rs5?

And to answer your previous post...
This will not be a dedicated film room. This will be in an open basement. Lights will often be on, but not right in front of the screen or viewing area. The walls the screen will be on in fairly dark brown. The other walls are light tan. Ceiling is white.
The viewing distance should be around 15-16 ft.
3d is not that important. Sports and movies are equally important...which is part of the reason I am struggling with this.

Thanks again!

Sorry I mean ls-5 (I assumed bstock would be available but am not certain on this) or a second hand planar as they apparently can be had rather cheaply (though of course buying second hand always carries some risks).

At 15 feet you would be looking at around a 120" image if not a little bit bigger. If you are going to get such a nice projector though you really would want to consider painting the roof a matte black and if you want to watch with the lights on you may want to consider where the lights will be, maybe scones on the wall or similar coupled with a black diamond screen. This is veering into territory though I have only read about as I always have my lights off as I only watch films and play the occasional game on my projector.

Light is one area though, and as far as i'm concerned is the only area projectors fall behind tv's in an overall presentation. You could also go for a tv with a motorized tension tabbed screen that comes down in front of the screen when you want the big screen experience.
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your recommendations. I will try to figure out something with the lighting situation. Is the Black Diamond a quality screen?

Thanks
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post #15 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 06:53 PM
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Thank you for your recommendations. I will try to figure out something with the lighting situation. Is the Black Diamond a quality screen?

Thanks

Yes, yes it is. It is also rather expensive.
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post #16 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I mean ls-5 (I assumed bstock would be available but am not certain on this) or a second hand planar as they apparently can be had rather cheaply (though of course buying second hand always carries some risks).

At 15 feet you would be looking at around a 120" image if not a little bit bigger. If you are going to get such a nice projector though you really would want to consider painting the roof a matte black and if you want to watch with the lights on you may want to consider where the lights will be, maybe scones on the wall or similar coupled with a black diamond screen. This is veering into territory though I have only read about as I always have my lights off as I only watch films and play the occasional game on my projector.

Light is one area though, and as far as i'm concerned is the only area projectors fall behind tv's in an overall presentation. You could also go for a tv with a motorized tension tabbed screen that comes down in front of the screen when you want the big screen experience.


I think I will be purchasing a 120inch screen so I'm glad that works. Thanks for your input and interesting comments on the paint and lighting

Thank you
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-13-2013, 06:57 PM
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I think I will be purchasing a 120inch screen so I'm glad that works. Thanks for your input and interesting comments on the paint and lighting

Thank you

I didn't write what follows but I agree with it completely.

"At the end of the day, the biggest improvement anyone can make to a home theater comes in a $50 can of dark paint for the walls and ceiling.

People often talk about 'light control' as if it means turning the lights out. But, true light control means that you are actually controlling the light that is coming off that screen. So, if your room is less than ideal, then spending more on a better projector doesn't make sense unless you are willing to get the dark walls, ceiling, and carpet to make the most of it. Not saying that better projectors still aren't better, but certainly you are going to harm image quality at such a level that I don't think it makes as much sense to spend the money on a really good home theater projector, when you are using it in a rec room, or just a spare room instead of an actual theater. There's no real need to spend the extra if you don't have to."
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Quote:
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I didn't write what follows but I agree with it completely.

"At the end of the day, the biggest improvement anyone can make to a home theater comes in a $50 can of dark paint for the walls and ceiling.

People often talk about 'light control' as if it means turning the lights out. But, true light control means that you are actually controlling the light that is coming off that screen. So, if your room is less than ideal, then spending more on a better projector doesn't make sense unless you are willing to get the dark walls, ceiling, and carpet to make the most of it. Not saying that better projectors still aren't better, but certainly you are going to harm image quality at such a level that I don't think it makes as much sense to spend the money on a really good home theater projector, when you are using it in a rec room, or just a spare room instead of an actual theater. There's no real need to spend the extra if you don't have to."


Great point!
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post #19 of 24 Old 11-14-2013, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
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At 15 feet you would be looking at around a 120" image if not a little bit bigger. If you are going to get such a nice projector though you really would want to consider painting the roof a matte black and if you want to watch with the lights on you may want to consider where the lights will be, maybe scones on the wall or similar coupled with a black diamond screen. This is veering into territory though I have only read about as I always have my lights off as I only watch films and play the occasional game on my projector.

I'd personally recommend against sconces (for anything other than aesthetic reason (ie to have the room look cool as people enter), they (usually) throw light in every direction and that's not what you want.

My recommendation would be narrowly focused recessed lighting, you can get a lot more "effective" light, meaning you can focus a relatively small amount of light exactly where the people will be and they will have "plenty" of light to see themselves and what they are doing without throwing most of their light places it's not needed or wanted (like the screen).

Couple this with dark walls and you can get fair amount of light for your guests/viewers without affecting the image terribly. And remember the room doesn't need to be black, any dark color will work so pick something aesthetically pleasing (though you probably do want what's right next to the screen to be neutral in color to not affect the image).

FWIW, I've got a Planar 8150 (Runco LS5 essentially) on a 110" wide scope screen. I painted my theater very dark blue, and I've got recessed lights above the seating. I can actually get the seating fairly bright without affecting the image too much. Certainly enough that pre-movie entertainment (games, clips, etc) can be enjoyed by a group without everyone being in the dark. Then when the main feature starts you turn off the lights and get a great presentation.

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I'd personally recommend against sconces (for anything other than aesthetic reason (ie to have the room look cool as people enter), they (usually) throw light in every direction and that's not what you want.

My recommendation would be narrowly focused recessed lighting, you can get a lot more "effective" light, meaning you can focus a relatively small amount of light exactly where the people will be and they will have "plenty" of light to see themselves and what they are doing without throwing most of their light places it's not needed or wanted (like the screen).

Couple this with dark walls and you can get fair amount of light for your guests/viewers without affecting the image terribly. And remember the room doesn't need to be black, any dark color will work so pick something aesthetically pleasing (though you probably do want what's right next to the screen to be neutral in color to not affect the image).

FWIW, I've got a Planar 8150 (Runco LS5 essentially) on a 110" wide scope screen. I painted my theater very dark blue, and I've got recessed lights above the seating. I can actually get the seating fairly bright without affecting the image too much. Certainly enough that pre-movie entertainment (games, clips, etc) can be enjoyed by a group without everyone being in the dark. Then when the main feature starts you turn off the lights and get a great presentation.

Thanks for your lighting recommendations. That makes a lot of sense. I may have to change a few things in my basement.
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So if I went with the Runco, is a firehawk or greyhawk more suitable for my needs? And is a black diamond as good of a screen as these two.

If I went with the JVC, would that change anything?

You all are great. Thank you for your comments.
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A Black Diamond screen should only be used if you have ambient light in the room that you have no control over such as from windows, connecting rooms, light colored walls where there will be tons of reflections that bounce light back on the screen, ect. The Firehawk and Greyhawk are by far better screen materials. The LS-3 will be bright enough when paired with either Stewart screen at your desired image size.

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Quote:
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Thanks for your lighting recommendations. That makes a lot of sense. I may have to change a few things in my basement.

I had meant to post track lighting would work well too, but looks like I forgot to put that in my post. Track lighting would be a lot easier to retrofit, especially if you already had a ceiling light in the room. And they make some pretty nice track/rail/wire lights these days.

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post #24 of 24 Old 11-15-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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A Black Diamond screen should only be used if you have ambient light in the room that you have no control over such as from windows, connecting rooms, light colored walls where there will be tons of reflections that bounce light back on the screen, ect. The Firehawk and Greyhawk are by far better screen materials. The LS-3 will be bright enough when paired with either Stewart screen at your desired image size.

Thanks. Stewart it is then. I found a jvc 4810 I can look at tomorrow. Unfortunately it will be displayed on a 110 black diamond. Hope it will help me finalize a decision though...

I appreciate it!
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