BD Zero Edge + JVC DLA-X700R, seeking opinion on this combo - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 12-06-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello
I'm building my first projector theater set up in my basement with Magnolia's help.
I've already purchased the Screen Innovations Black Diamond Zero Edge 133" 2:35.1 screen
I am thinking of getting the JVC DLA-X700R
I am also planning on getting an anamorphic lens from panamorph, most likely the CineVista.

With the screen I'm using and the room layout below, I was hoping to hear your opinions about the planned setup.

Is this the right projector/setup for the job?
About 40% movie viewing (mostly wide scope movies), 30% HD sports, 30% games via HTPC & xbox (more for kids, but I enjoy them too)
Interested in 3D viewing too, but not the highest consideration.

I guess I'm more looking for your opinions on this projector in this setup or alternative projector options.

The blue bar in the picture is the bulk head in the ceiling that I'm planning to place the projector in front (ceiling mounted)

thanks for your time

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post #2 of 24 Old 12-06-2013, 09:34 PM
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I'm just curious why you went with the black diamond screen? It's really a screen that should only be used as needed. The as needed part meaning if there's ambient light in your room. From the drawing this seems like a light controlled area. If that's the case then there were far better screen choices that you could have went with.

Screen choice aside, if the room is truly light controlled (not just ambient light, but room reflections from walls, ceiling, ect) then the JVC is a great choice and should be able to fill a screen that large with the help of the anamoprhic lens and be adequately bright for 2D. 3D brightness will be on the dim side but if you aren't too interested in 3D then it shouldn't be much of an issue. For the price there really aren't many other projector options out there that will give you picture quality like the JVC. The only other projector I'd recommend looking at would be the Runco LS-5 with it's short throw lens option which would allow for an appropriate throw from the distance you have to work with.
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post #3 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'm just curious why you went with the black diamond screen? It's really a screen that should only be used as needed. The as needed part meaning if there's ambient light in your room. From the drawing this seems like a light controlled area. If that's the case then there were far better screen choices that you could have went with.

Screen choice aside, if the room is truly light controlled (not just ambient light, but room reflections from walls, ceiling, ect) then the JVC is a great choice and should be able to fill a screen that large with the help of the anamoprhic lens and be adequately bright for 2D. 3D brightness will be on the dim side but if you aren't too interested in 3D then it shouldn't be much of an issue. For the price there really aren't many other projector options out there that will give you picture quality like the JVC. The only other projector I'd recommend looking at would be the Runco LS-5 with it's short throw lens option which would allow for an appropriate throw from the distance you have to work with.

It's sounds like a multimedia room. I'm doing the same with a Black Diamond. Sure I can control the lights, but if I've got friends over in the middle of the day, the lights will be on. Unless your suggesting that other screens would be just as adequate for daytime viewing? Just curious because I was planning on ordering one next week.
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post #4 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 08:46 AM
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Not at all. Reread my post. I said if the room will be light controlled there are far better screen materials out there. Ambient light means it won't be light controlled.
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply.
Yes, this is more of a multi-media room than a dedicated Theater only - though I'm still after the WOW factor smile.gif
In the diagram, the light grey "walls" on right side are open (not there). The rear on is the room extended and I'll do something with curtains for either the opening or glass-sliding doors which let in a lot of light.
Same as ch1sox mentioned, I will have friends over for sports/events and we will not be sitting in the dark.
The BD screen was described to me that it will absorb the projector light nicely with no reflection, especially from the relatively close throw. The walls are tan and the ceiling is blue with overhead lights, but planning on sconces in the near future. So there is ambient light to factor in.

Regarding projector, thank you for the feedback about the picture. That has me very excited. Leaning that way because of the eshift over the runco.
Reading this note in the JVS release, it has me wondering if I need an anamorphic lens
Lens memory settings – Ten for the DLA-X900R, DLA-X700R, DLA-RS6710, DLA-RS67 and DLA-RS57, and five for the DLA-X500R, DLA-RS49, and DLA-RS4910. These store custom focus, zoom and horizontal/vertical lens shift position. This allows a constant height display of 4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1 or any other scope content without an additional anamorphic lens.
Thoughts?
It seems to be a foregone conclusion you need one, and I'm planning getting one, plan to have it fixed (not manual or auto sliding). But that statement has me a bit confused as far as needing it.

thanks again for the replies!
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Unfortunately, unless you can find a way to put the projector farther back in the room, your throw is too close to zoom a picture that large so you're going to need the anamorphic lens. You would need to be able to put the projector at least 8" farther back for the zoom method to work.
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post #7 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks again! What is the formula you use to determine that distance of whether or not an anamorphic lens will be needed?
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 03:59 PM
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You could use a calculator like this or do the math manually going off of the throw capabilities of the lens which is 1.40-2.80. You take screen width and multiply by the throw of the lens. So at max zoom if you wanted to have a 122.5" wide screen you simply multiply by 1.40 to find the closest distance the lens can be from the screen to get that size of an image. The answer is 171.5 inches. You only have a throw of 164 inches according to your drawing, hence you needing to move it back ~8 inches to do this without an anamorphic lens. If you're able to move back the projector somehow, you'll still need to take the black bar over spill issue into consideration. You'll want to have black velvet on the wall or something comparable to soak up light. Even on a JVC the black bars are still very visible.
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post #9 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 04:10 PM
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It's not recommended to use a black diamond screen with a short throw ratio. You will get severe hotspotting if you don't place the projector sufficiently far back - at least 1.8 screen widths. Also, anamorphic lenses doesn't work well with short throws either: you will get problems with fitting the image through the glass as well as a lot of pincushioning.
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 04:14 PM
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The DC1 anamorphic lens for sure, but something like an ISCO III lens has basically no throw limitation due to the size of the optics. I also forgot about the hotspotting issues with the BD screen materials with shorter throw applications. If he can move the projector farther back, he should be able to zoom for anamorphic material and lessen the effect of hotspotting issues.
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post #11 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 04:50 PM
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Sure, a large lens will allow a larger zoomed image through, but they're VERY expensive and they won't perform any better with regards to the pincushion effect - that's just physics and not depending on the lens. With a zero edge screen he can't hide the overspill on the border either. I suppose he could use the built in scaling in the jvc to counteract it, but it will cost him resolution instead. I would look into moving the PJ further back as you suggested, it should help with both issues.
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post #12 of 24 Old 12-07-2013, 06:33 PM
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One must be careful when saying what a large lens will do. a large lens would normally be thought as having low effective F stop and therefore letting more light through. A faster lens will have a larger diameter likely having a larger sweet spot and allowing more lens shift without getting into curvature and increasing chromatic aberrations> I longer lens is one that has a longer focal length, a a lens with a higher zoom ratio will have a bigger range between shortest throw and longest throw. The longer the zoom ratio, all other things held the same, the more costly the lens and the harder it will be to perform optically correctly at the extremes. the longer the zoom ration and the more light will be lost from short to long throw.kthro

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post #13 of 24 Old 12-08-2013, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the replies, and education. Based on what I'm reading from you all, the location I was after is not possible with the screen size I intend to install.

I can move it back to fit within suggested range, which is not great for multiple reasons, but I'm assuming the up side is that I will no longer need an anamorphic lens?

I've updated the room map in the first post to have accurate size of projector and different placement options
- black projector: preferred location
- red projector: SI location minimum location
- green projector: maximum free-floating placement location
- blue projector: against the back wall, can not be directly centered to the screen.

With a 11.5" bulkhead in the way, the project will need to be hung further down from the ceiling.
So the bottom of it will be 17" from the ceiling, or about 6.25 feet from the ground.

A few questions/opinions if you don't mind....
1) Will the further back keep the picture a sharp being close?
2) Will the further back location be bright enough for the BD Zero Edge .8 screen? Further throw = less bright picture?
3) Will a non-anamorphic picture be just as good as one with an anamorphic picture? I realize the lens just stretches, but Drexler mentioned that using the JVC to control the scaling will cost resolution.

thank you again for all of your advice and input!

here are some more pics to help show the room I'm talking about...

Bulkhead/couch placement in the room. ESPN Basketball hoops game can be seen also.


Front wall with projector screen mapped out. Overhead lights will almost never be that bright. Current TV is a 73" Mits DLP


SI Suggested projector distance Assuming the DLA-X75R is comparable to DLA-X700R
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post #14 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 05:51 AM
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you mentioned Gaming. This projector has a high lag for games.
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post #15 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. Yes that will potentially be a third of its usage. One of the main things I was interested in from others opinions.
Is there anywhere online that rates lag for projectors?
I have not committed to a projector yet, though I was leaning this way based on image quality.
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post #16 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 11:47 AM
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The scaling I was talking about was to correct for the pincushion distortion of the a-lens. You won't need it when zooming (and I actually don't think it will have much impact with the lens either as you have extra pixels to play with there).

My main concerns in your setup would be brightness and hotspotting. Unfortunately they work against each other. I think I would lean towards the green placement. Over 2.0 screen widths would help with hotspotting and since you have it closer to the couch you can get the image further down without blocking the light. If you could get the Sony VW600 instead it would almost double your brightness, but it is more money.
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post #17 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the note. The Sony does look nice, but it is $7K more than the JVC. That's a big jump in cost. Plus I have no 4k source. So for future proofing it would be nice, but I figure when 4k content is really out there, I'll upgrade the projector.
Since I've come to learn I can't do the black placement, the green would be my next choice as well. The light blocking is also a big concern. Especially since the kids like to play kinnect as well as other games while standing up.
Need to look into a housing setup instead of the planned pole next.

For lumen comparison, 1300(JVC) vs 1700(Sony), is that much of a difference for brightness?
One of the reasons I am going with the Black diamond screen is that it reflects the light back at you while not being affected by ambient light so much. It is supposed to make your projection brighter and increase the contrast.

With the above comment about the JVC and lag issues, I'm still open for the best projector I can get (within reasonable price)
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post #18 of 24 Old 12-11-2013, 10:17 PM
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When you compare brightess you have to look at calibrated lumens. The sony puts out about 1700/1200 in high/low lamp, whereas the Jvc can muster about 900/600. However, the JVC has also been very loud in high mode and if they havent improved that and you're sensitive you might be limited to low lamp mode.

Which BD do you have?
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post #19 of 24 Old 12-13-2013, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the reply. I am planning on the BD zero edge 133" .8 screen
The 1.4 screen in an option, but understand the .8 absorbs more light from the projector and ambient, plus the contrast & blacks will be better.

Looking into now to see if I can mount in the bulk head (rather not go under or behind) to gain distance so I do not need to get an anamorphic lens

There is a ton of $#!% to consider and factor in here. Never assumed it was going to be as easy as plugging in a TV, but everything seems to be a roadblock! Appreciate all of your info

update: I believe I will be going with the 1.4 screen as there is not a lot of ambient light in the room (unless the lights are up and blinds drawn) and the .8 screen may be too dark and work adversely in my environment.
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post #20 of 24 Old 04-29-2014, 06:19 AM
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What did you finally go with?

 

I am looking at a 144" BD 1.4 (2.35:1) with the DLA-RS4910.

I am concerned that the JVC won't throw enough light.  I have a very similar situation to you.

 

For Sports (Daytime) watching I am not as concerned.  I figure I would put 4910 in High and let Black Diamond shine.

For Nighttime (Movies) in 2.35 I am concerned about High Lamp Noise and getting enough lumens to the screen.

 

I am mounting the projector at 17' shortest throw range for my screen size to give most lumens.

 

May I also ask where you purchased?  Who had the best pricing?

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post #21 of 24 Old 04-29-2014, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhartman67 View Post

What did you finally go with?

I am looking at a 144" BD 1.4 (2.35:1) with the DLA-RS4910.
I am concerned that the JVC won't throw enough light.  I have a very similar situation to you.

For Sports (Daytime) watching I am not as concerned.  I figure I would put 4910 in High and let Black Diamond shine.
For Nighttime (Movies) in 2.35 I am concerned about High Lamp Noise and getting enough lumens to the screen.

I am mounting the projector at 17' shortest throw range for my screen size to give most lumens.

May I also ask where you purchased?  Who had the best pricing?

You do not want to mount at shortest throw. The BD screen has a minimum throw ratio of 1.5. So for a 144" diagonal 2.35, the minimum throw will be around 16'-8". 17' is about the shortest throw, you would want to use, but it is not the shortest throw the projector has available. AV Science is a dealer for both of these products. If you would like some advise, give us a call.

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post #22 of 24 Old 04-29-2014, 07:06 AM
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Sorry to confuse.  Yes the minimum throw for BD not for PJ.

 

I am mounting projector at 17' for 144" screen.

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post #23 of 24 Old 04-29-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhartman67 View Post

Sorry to confuse.  Yes the minimum throw for BD not for PJ.

I am mounting projector at 17' for 144" screen.

You will be fine then and max out the projectors available brightness. Anyway, let us know if we can help you.

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post #24 of 24 Old 05-08-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello Bhartman67,
I purchased my screen thru Magnolia (best buy HT division), they matched the price I found on sale from picture people (thanksgiving sale price).
For the projector I got it from AVS, Mike was most helpful!

For you question about lumens and noise
Mine is mounted on the bulkhead in the picture above, very near seating. about 17" feet away.
I always run on low lamp setting and the picture is PLENTY bright, never an issue especially at night. Also, I can not even hear the projector when on low setting.
With 3D, you may need to try it on High Lamp, but I haven't gotten around to paying all the $$$ needed for the JVC glasses. So haven't tried 3D yet myself (actually had cheaper glasses that didn't work because of polarization, so returned them)

Talk to AVS about pricing before you buy anything, I could have saved myself even more money if I bought the screen from them.

Best of luck with you.
I couldn't be happier with my setup.
The games played by the kids from the PC or Xbox don't even lag via the setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhartman67 View Post

What did you finally go with?

I am looking at a 144" BD 1.4 (2.35:1) with the DLA-RS4910.
I am concerned that the JVC won't throw enough light.  I have a very similar situation to you.

For Sports (Daytime) watching I am not as concerned.  I figure I would put 4910 in High and let Black Diamond shine.
For Nighttime (Movies) in 2.35 I am concerned about High Lamp Noise and getting enough lumens to the screen.

I am mounting the projector at 17' shortest throw range for my screen size to give most lumens.

May I also ask where you purchased?  Who had the best pricing?
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