Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 103 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3061 of 3810 Old 12-30-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post
I would have to disagree with this. Having a Tcp60vt60 which has better black levels than the kuro, I must say that the 4910 produces very close to, if not same black level. Of course I have it set up in a room that is all blacked out. The Avatar outer space scene looks pretty identical when it comes to blacks.


Wow, I knew the blacks were potentially very good on the 4910, but didn't know the could exceed my KRP600.

Too bad it can't do it without having the room turned into a batcave.

Should I get a black screen? This is a very ignorant question, but how is it possible to get near absolute black levels on a white substrate(ie., my screen)? The gerbils in my head are spinning their cages like mad and I can't figure it out...
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post #3062 of 3810 Old 12-30-2014, 05:54 PM
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It's on/off contrast will well exceed that of a Kuro. The Kuro, like most plasmas, will have much higher ANSI contrast. Here's what AVForum's Review of the Panasonic ZT65 (aka Panasonic's "Kuro Killer" plasma) had to say:

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However blacks aren’t everything of course and we found that when it came to brightness the THX Cinema mode hit 94 cd/m2 and the Professional mode reached 92 cd/m2, whilst the EBU mode was only able to reach 56 cd/m2. We assume that the reason the EBU Default mode is less bright is because it uses studio monitor standards, which tend to place more emphasis on consistency rather than brightness when it comes to luminance. By comparison, the KURO measured at 97 cd/m2, which basically matches the P60ZT65, although the Professional mode could go brighter. We measured the Professional mode at 92 cd/m2 using the Mid Panel Luminance setting but if we used the High setting we could get up to 108 cd/m2. However in this setting the blacks were crushed, which again compromised shadow detail, so we would recommend using the Mid setting. Besides a brightness measurement of 94 cd/m2 is still excellent and with a black level of 0.001 cd/m2 that gives an absolutely incredible on/off contrast ratio of 94,000:1! When it came to the ANSI measurements we found that blacks remained superb, measuring between 0.002 and 0.003 cd/m2, but the brightness did drop off, measuring between 51 and 55 cd/m2. However the resulting ANSI contrast ratio was a superb 20,333:1 and this remarkable dynamic range was easy to see when watching actual content. Interestingly there was a similar drop off in brightness when measuring the ANSI numbers on the KURO and again, as a point of comparison, it produced an on/off contrast ratio of 48,500:1 and an ANSI contrast ratio of 16,676:1. It might have taken Panasonic four years but in the P60ZT65 they have finally produced a plasma that can lay to rest the ghost of KURO.
The X900 can do native on/off contrast on par with the ZT65. With the dynamic iris engaged on any of the three current models (X500, X700, or X900) we get over 350000:1 measured dynamic contrast by an extremely well implemented dynamic iris. The X500, with it's DI enabled can do a black level deeper than the Panasonic 60ZT65 (0.0002918 ftL vs 0.000245 ftL) and has a much brighter peak white (27.43 ftL vs 86.037 ftL). As you can see the dynamic range of the X500 is vastly superior. Now you may say, one is native contrast and the other is dynamic contrast and I agree they are completely different metrics, but as you can see for the peak white level is SO much greater on the X500 that comparing the two without the DI engaged would be silly considering the intended screen size of use for the X500 is much larger. The 60" ZT65 has a screen with a surface area of 11.04166 square feet. If we were to put the JVC on a screen where it matched the ZT65's peak white brightness we can get a better understanding of what a black level for a more practical screen size for the X500 would look like. To get 27.43 peak white foot lamberts from the JVC we'd need a screen size 3.14 times larger or a screen that's 34.7635 square feet. This would bring it's native contrast black level to 0.00091 ftL and it's dynamic contrast black level to .000078371 ftL (factoring in that the X500 has 950 lumens peak white output and ~30000:1 native contrast and 350000:1 dynamic contrast) which is MUCH darker than what the ZT65 and Kuro can do.

So when we put things into perspective, aka putting the two displays at the same peak white brightness and comparing what the contrast and black levels are, the JVCs have a much higher dynamic range with similar native contrast. Overall, once the scene gets dark and the DI actually engages the JVCs will have a noticeable edge PQ wise. There is the argument of higher ANSI contrast on the Kuro/ZT65 so brighter scenes will have a little more "pop" to them, but most will agree that on/off contrast is far more influential in how overall PQ looks. This can be seen by comparing a higher end DLP projector vs a JVC. The same scenario plays out. Brighter scenes have a little more "pop" to them, but the difference in on/off contrast is far more apparent. The Kuro/ZT65 are much better than DLP projectors with on/off contrast so the difference won't be quite as stark, but I still think there will be a noticeable difference in darker scenes between the two. Also you have to factor in the puny size the plasma will be in comparison to the JVCs projected image. I think most would rather go with the JVC at the end of day if they had the room for it.

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post #3063 of 3810 Old 12-30-2014, 07:04 PM
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I'm not interested in buying from them. A colleague of mine purchased one from them, and when he told me about them, I googled them. I noticed that they were selling JVC online. I just thought there were no authorized online dealers for JVC.
No offense, but you'd be foolish to not consider buying from AVS. They are an authorized dealer and have an EXCELLENT reputation. I bought two projectors from them over the last few years. They have been extremely helpful in helping to get a replacement authorized when I had some issues.

Frankly, I wouldn't consider buying from anyone else.

And you're using their forum, you should at least given them consideration unless there is some practical issue for using someone else.

Edit: I'm now wondering if you meant that you're not interested in buying from the other vendor you asked about. I thought your response was saying that your not interested in buying from AVS. But in re-reading it, I think that may not be what you meant. If so, my apologies.

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post #3064 of 3810 Old 12-30-2014, 08:05 PM
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No offense, but you'd be foolish to not consider buying from AVS. They are an authorized dealer and have an EXCELLENT reputation. I bought two projectors from them over the last few years. They have been extremely helpful in helping to get a replacement authorized when I had some issues.

Frankly, I wouldn't consider buying from anyone else.

And you're using their forum, you should at least given them consideration unless there is some practical issue for using someone else.

Edit: I'm now wondering if you meant that you're not interested in buying from the other vendor you asked about. I thought your response was saying that your not interested in buying from AVS. But in re-reading it, I think that may not be what you meant. If so, my apologies.
No apologies necessary, i should've been more clear. I do not want to buy from projectorpeople.com. I was just wondering about them since someone I work with bought from them. If or when I do buy a projector I will definitely look at AV Science. Of course anytime you are spending a few thousand dollars on anything, you want to check into all options. I was just curious about projectorpeople and wondering how they are able to sell JVC online.
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post #3065 of 3810 Old 12-30-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post
I would have to disagree with this. Having a Tcp60vt60 which has better black levels than the kuro, I must say that the 4910 produces very close to, if not same black level. Of course I have it set up in a room that is all blacked out. The Avatar outer space scene looks pretty identical when it comes to blacks.
I do as well. I have two basically average LED TV's at this point so I have yet still to see a Kuro or anything close. I was operating on assumptions but I will tell you all at least this, the 4910 in my batcave has identical blacks to my screen borders, and the black bars. I can't tell a difference when watching. I even had a good screen cap somewhere of the credits on Man of steel where it was virtually impossible to see the difference between the black bars, border, and content.

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post #3066 of 3810 Old 12-30-2014, 09:29 PM
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Sorry for all the questions, but what is the best method to fine tune the focus on the 4910? And is that the same as convergence? The focus adjust seems to be very coarse and I don't feel like I'm getting it exact and I can't figure out what to do with "pixel adjust" at all. I was thinking that would be a finer focus mechanism, but everything looks perfect at default, although I admit I really don't know what I'm looking for.

Ughh, I'm feeling a bit lost.
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post #3067 of 3810 Old 12-31-2014, 07:13 AM
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Sorry for all the questions, but what is the best method to fine tune the focus on the 4910? And is that the same as convergence? The focus adjust seems to be very coarse and I don't feel like I'm getting it exact and I can't figure out what to do with "pixel adjust" at all. I was thinking that would be a finer focus mechanism, but everything looks perfect at default, although I admit I really don't know what I'm looking for.

Ughh, I'm feeling a bit lost.
You pixel adjust is only if one of the panels is off for convergence. Its pretty likely you won't need to be adjusting that. The simple way I adjust focus is to use the pattern and just stand near the screen and click slowly until I see no blurring of the green line. Agreed it certainly isn't scientific, but it works

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post #3068 of 3810 Old 12-31-2014, 08:09 AM
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I do as well. I have two basically average LED TV's at this point so I have yet still to see a Kuro or anything close. I was operating on assumptions but I will tell you all at least this, the 4910 in my batcave has identical blacks to my screen borders, and the black bars. I can't tell a difference when watching. I even had a good screen cap somewhere of the credits on Man of steel where it was virtually impossible to see the difference between the black bars, border, and content.
I have very, very dark gray, almost black walls & ceiling but have light-ish carpet. Painting the room from white ceilings/light gray walls made a huge difference, but the black bars are still noticeable. Frankly, its not close to my plasmas, the black bars virtually disappear with the bezel on my Panny ST50s.

I think I need to go all in and cover the room floor to ceiling in black velvet and buy black velvet snuggies for viewing.

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post #3069 of 3810 Old 12-31-2014, 08:58 AM
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I have very, very dark gray, almost black walls & ceiling but have light-ish carpet. Painting the room from white ceilings/light gray walls made a huge difference, but the black bars are still noticeable. Frankly, its not close to my plasmas, the black bars virtually disappear with the bezel on my Panny ST50s.

I think I need to go all in and cover the room floor to ceiling in black velvet and buy black velvet snuggies for viewing.

I had a carpet guy get me a very large piece of black carpet ( I picked out the blackest non reflecting one he had - Shaw I think ) - 20' x 12', and had the edges bound like a rug. I installed it while my wife was out of town on business. It made a hug improvement.

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post #3070 of 3810 Old 12-31-2014, 10:40 AM
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No apologies necessary, i should've been more clear. I do not want to buy from projectorpeople.com. I was just wondering about them since someone I work with bought from them. If or when I do buy a projector I will definitely look at AV Science. Of course anytime you are spending a few thousand dollars on anything, you want to check into all options. I was just curious about projectorpeople and wondering how they are able to sell JVC online.
For the prices alone, AVS sales is the place to go for anything they sell. For the service alone, AVS is the place to go for anything they sell. With the two combined, they are the best retail experience in the US today.

I'm just sayin'...

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post #3071 of 3810 Old 12-31-2014, 03:33 PM
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A little older picture. Just waiting on my new screen.
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post #3072 of 3810 Old 12-31-2014, 07:42 PM
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Planes.....3D.....absolutely...AAAMMAAAAAZING!
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post #3073 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 04:31 AM
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Planes.....3D.....absolutely...AAAMMAAAAAZING!
Hello how was the ghosting on this one?


Best regards
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post #3074 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 08:29 AM
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does anyone know if projector people.com are authorized resellers of JVC projectors?
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post #3075 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 08:46 AM
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does anyone know if projector people.com are authorized resellers of JVC projectors?
Greetings,

AV Science is an authorized reseller of many home audio/video products, JVC is among them. I would highly recommend them for reliable, prompt support as well as an invaluable resource that can be found here in the forum community.

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post #3076 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 08:48 AM
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Hello how was the ghosting on this one?


Best regards
I didn't notice any. It was the best 3D I've personally ever experienced, and I've seen a lot of theater and Imax 3D. The whole movie was like the Imax 3D intro where the clarity just floors you. Typically though, the Imax movie itself is never as good as the intro, so it's a bit of a let down.

I had a few guests over and they were just as blown away as I was. All said it was best 3D/picture they'd ever seen (without any prompting from me ). The clarity and pop was just insane. Everyone was inviting themselves back over for another movie, lol.

To say I am officially seriously impressed with the 4910 and the potential of 3D is an understatement. I honestly did not think it could be that good.

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post #3077 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 08:56 AM
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I didn't notice any. It was the best 3D I've personally ever experienced, and I've seen a lot of theater and Imax 3D. The whole movie was like the Imax 3D intro where the clarity just floors you. Typically though, the Imax movie itself is never as good as the intro, so it's a bit of a let down.

I had a few guests over and they were just as blown away as I was. All said it was best 3D/picture they'd ever seen (without any prompting from me ). The clarity and pop was just insane. Everyone was inviting themselves back over for another movie, lol.

To say I am officially seriously impressed with the 4910 and the potential of 3D is an understatement. I honestly did not think it could be that good.
Thx for your reply,


At first happy newyear.


Did you watch maybe Sammy 1 or two?(the animated movie with the turtle)Or Happy feet..
And wasnt it to dimm?I dont know how big your screen is?


I hope you can do some more tests..


Best regards
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post #3078 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 09:06 AM
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Thx for your reply,


At first happy newyear.


Did you watch maybe Sammy 1 or two?(the animated movie with the turtle)Or Happy feet..
And wasnt it to dimm?I dont know how big your screen is?


I hope you can do some more tests..


Best regards
Yes, HNY!

I did watch 10-15 minutes of The Croods as well and there was definitely some ghosting on movement with that one. It looked great, but it wasn't until I put Planes in that my jaw dropped. Planes much better for sure IMO.

I have a few more titles to watch, Gravity being one of them, and I'll be sure to comment back here on them. I literally just got the emitter and glasses on New Years Eve. I had the shipped next day Amazon Prime just for the occasion and I'm glad I did because it really was a hit with all the guests.
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post #3079 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 09:10 AM
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Yes, HNY!

I did watch 10-15 minutes of The Croods as well and there was definitely some ghosting on movement with that one. It looked great, but it wasn't until I put Planes in that my jaw dropped. Planes much better for sure IMO.

I have a few more titles to watch, Gravity being one of them, and I'll be sure to comment back here on them. I literally just got the emitter and glasses on New Years Eve. I had the shipped next day Amazon Prime just for the occasion and I'm glad I did because it really was a hit with all the guests.
And how big is your screen?It was not to dimm?


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post #3080 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 09:20 AM
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Anyone using a Mac mini to X500 to output 4k and watch YouTube 4k vids?
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post #3081 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 12:30 PM
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Watched Oblivion last night for the first time. Very happy with my X500R/Seymour AV Center Stage XD combo. The picture was just amazing on Oblivion.

Should mention my new Oppo 103D too. Darby was set at 35%.
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post #3082 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 01:14 PM
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And how big is your screen?It was not to dimm?


Best regards
At 100", it's small, so I'm sure that helps. But definitely not too dim.
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post #3083 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 03:24 PM
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What's the largest screen any 4910/500 owner using?

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post #3084 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 03:42 PM
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What's the largest screen any 4910/500 owner using?
A screen way too large for the lumen output of this projector. Are you asking what's the largest appropriate screen size for the lumen output of this projector? If that's the case, stick to something under 12' wide.
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post #3085 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 04:26 PM
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A screen way too large for the lumen output of this projector. Are you asking what's the largest appropriate screen size for the lumen output of this projector? If that's the case, stick to something under 12' wide.
I've noticed some can get away with larger than the 'appropriate' size...I've heard most go for the 130" SD, but wondering if anyone is pushing beyond that and happy. For instance, I've got a 176" SD 2.35 with my panny 8000 even though some recommended against going that big, but I'm very happy with the results. Granted it is 2400 lumens, which is helping, but when I hear 4910 owners compare plasma blacks to their pj, I get the itch again.

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post #3086 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 04:30 PM
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I've noticed some can get away with larger than the 'appropriate' size...I've heard most go for the 130" SD, but wondering if anyone is pushing beyond that and happy. For instance, I've got a 176" SD 2.35 with my panny 8000 even though some recommended against going that big, but I'm very happy with the results. Granted it is 2400 lumens, which is helping, but when I hear 4910 owners compare plasma blacks to their pj, I get the itch again.
The 8000 is not 2400 lumens. Check here:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...000-brightness

Out of the box Cinema and Normal modes clock in at around half that claimed number or lower. Calibrated "best" mode is 600 lumens...ouch. The JVC is about 950 lumens in a calibrated mode which isn't a whole lot less in terms of brightness. Brightness is something subjective and if you thought the 8000 looked good at that screen size then you may find the X500 bright enough too. I know most people wouldn't use this projector on a screen that large.
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post #3087 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The 8000 is not 2400 lumens. Check here:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...000-brightness

Out of the box Cinema and Normal modes clock in at around half that claimed number or lower. Calibrated "best" mode is 600 lumens...ouch. The JVC is about 950 lumens in a calibrated mode which isn't a whole lot less in terms of brightness. Brightness is something subjective and if you thought the 8000 looked good at that screen size then you may find the X500 bright enough too. I know most people wouldn't use this projector on a screen that large.
Interesting...I was going off the listed lumens on their specs...is 2400 value just the peak capability under 'impractical' viewing?...I have only calibrated with a wow disc and it runs close to cinema mode type of lower brightness. This subjective approach is why I'm asking how much bigger someone is getting away with.

I might have to bribe a local owner to really test in my room to see for myself... especially if you're saying the 4910 would be brighter than the 8000...

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post #3088 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
Interesting...I was going off the listed lumens on their specs...is 2400 value just the peak capability under 'impractical' viewing?...I have only calibrated with a wow disc and it runs close to cinema mode type of lower brightness. This subjective approach is why I'm asking how much bigger someone is getting away with.

I might have to bribe a local owner to really test in my room to see for myself... especially if you're saying the 4910 would be brighter than the 8000...

For a color correct mode it's about 350 lumens brighter. Using the WOW disc is not a color calibration, but a basic setting up the contrast and brightness and few other odds and ends. If you're using Cinema 1, REC 709, or D-Cinema mode on the 8000, the JVC will definitely be brighter.

You'll have to test the unit in your room, because like you said, brightness is subjective. Only you can decide if it's bright enough for you.
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post #3089 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
For a color correct mode it's about 350 lumens brighter. Using the WOW disc is not a color calibration, but a basic setting up the contrast and brightness and few other odds and ends. If you're using Cinema 1, REC 709, or D-Cinema mode on the 8000, the JVC will definitely be brighter.

You'll have to test the unit in your room, because like you said, brightness is subjective. Only you can decide if it's bright enough for you.
Yeah, I'm only referring to brightness calibration...a full calibration will follow when I have the room painted/finished. I didn't have too many expectations from the wow disc...but my current settings are pretty impressive. So as far as brightness levels go, my room is a cave, so I have that going for me. For me, contrast is more of a priority, so also probably why I enjoy the image I have...which may seem lower in brightness to some, but non-avs guests have still enjoyed it. Hopefully I'll get more feedback once I have avs members over for demos.

Is there any news about the next jvc model to replace the 4910....will it be laser?

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post #3090 of 3810 Old 01-01-2015, 09:05 PM
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I have a black line down the middle of screen while on. Is this in demo mode or an issue with projector. I don't know how that came up or how to shut it off. Any ideas?
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