Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 121 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3601 of 3763 Old 03-11-2015, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I believe that Manni bought a Pro and an Elite to try to resolve his issues, both worked the same as far as I know. I just bought the Pro version which looked exactly the same as the link you showed me and works fine.

Manni didn't need to do a factory reset as it turned out. He hadn't realised that the 'environment' setting was on, so all he needed to do was turn it off (it prevents the gamma calibration working for some reason).

I can overwrite the custom colour profiles (I have also renamed them as I mentioned further back). I don't think it gives you the option to select the preset profiles anyway. It only matter which slot you start with in terms of not wanting to overwrite a slot that you use for another purpose (rec601 for example, or DCI).
I did read it was the environmental settings that he found were ultimately to blame. I also read he bought a pro and elite and found the elite to be less accurate when compared to a reference. So it is luck with these, but since I am mostly concerned with gamma, luminance should be fairly consistent.

SO just to make sure I understand. I can user user 1-4 to create a calibrated color profile, calibrated gamma, and calibrated grayscale? do I also have to be using a custom color profile slot, custom gamma slot, and custom grayscale slot? i.e. not standard or cinema color, not normal or bright priority gamma, and not the 6500 preset? Just trying to wrap my head around what slots you start with and where your settings are saved to.

Also, can you pick any gamma value such as 2.35 for example?
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post #3602 of 3763 Old 03-11-2015, 12:00 PM
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I used the user slots and the custom colour temp/gamma/colour profile slots. I'm not sure if you can overwrite the cinema, standard colour ones as I didn't try (I don't think they were options available when I imported the profile that I created anyway).

You don't calibrate the 'normal' or 'bright priority' gamma, though these are of course available to select in your custom gamma. I had 2.2 selected within custom 1 gamma when I ran the calibration, plus I selected 2.2 in the JVC software too. If I use custom 1 gamma now and change the setting to 2.3 it measures at 2.3 (likewise for 2.4). I don't use the normal or bright priority settings myself though, so I don't know how these work, but the 'base' gamma is the part that is corrected.

You can select various gamma options in the JVC software, though I don't think it goes in 0.05 steps, so it might only be 2.3 or 2.4 for example, no 2.35.

It's one of those things that becomes clearer once you start using it. I may be making it sound more complicated than it really is. In simple terms this is what I did:

1. Select User 1 slot. Set this to use Custom 1 colour temp, Custom 1 gamma and User 1 colour profile. Set the aperture to manual at the setting you want to use it at. Make sure environment settings are off.

2. Run the greyscale gamma autocalibration from the JVC software. When complete, save this to the projector.

3. Create a colour profile (various options including custom that allows you to enter co-ordinates for red, green and blue). Save this to your computer with a suitable name (such as rec709).

4. Import the colour profile to your projector. You can select which slot to save it to, so I chose User 1, again chose a name or leave it as User 1 if you wish.

5. Run a colour only calibration. When complete save this to the projector.

6. Check the results using a better sensor and test patterns, perform manual calibration as required.

I had to return to '3' a couple of times as I created a custom colour profile which initially was undersaturated when I measured with my i1D3 Pro. I had to second guess what co-ordinates to put in, though Manni was luckier in this regard as he just used the 'HDTV' setting and got a near perfect rec709 result when he checked later.

My 'rec709' setting has a touch too much luminance on a few colours, but otherwise is good. I was able to correct it at 75% using the JVC CMS afterwards, plus it will make an excellent 'base' to calibrate from when I get my Lumagen 2041.

The main thing if using the JVC CMS is to avoid using the saturation controls as this impacts on linearity, so it may be worth repeating the colour profile process until you get a good result that doesn't need saturation adjustment. FWIW I only had to use a little bit of lightness adjustment to bring my colours under 2.0dE.
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post #3603 of 3763 Old 03-11-2015, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I used the user slots and the custom colour temp/gamma/colour profile slots. I'm not sure if you can overwrite the cinema, standard colour ones as I didn't try (I don't think they were options available when I imported the profile that I created anyway).

You don't calibrate the 'normal' or 'bright priority' gamma, though these are of course available to select in your custom gamma. I had 2.2 selected within custom 1 gamma when I ran the calibration, plus I selected 2.2 in the JVC software too. If I use custom 1 gamma now and change the setting to 2.3 it measures at 2.3 (likewise for 2.4). I don't use the normal or bright priority settings myself though, so I don't know how these work, but the 'base' gamma is the part that is corrected.

You can select various gamma options in the JVC software, though I don't think it goes in 0.05 steps, so it might only be 2.3 or 2.4 for example, no 2.35.

It's one of those things that becomes clearer once you start using it. I may be making it sound more complicated than it really is. In simple terms this is what I did:

1. Select User 1 slot. Set this to use Custom 1 colour temp, Custom 1 gamma and User 1 colour profile. Set the aperture to manual at the setting you want to use it at. Make sure environment settings are off.

2. Run the greyscale gamma autocalibration from the JVC software. When complete, save this to the projector.

3. Create a colour profile (various options including custom that allows you to enter co-ordinates for red, green and blue). Save this to your computer with a suitable name (such as rec709).

4. Import the colour profile to your projector. You can select which slot to save it to, so I chose User 1, again chose a name or leave it as User 1 if you wish.

5. Run a colour only calibration. When complete save this to the projector.

6. Check the results using a better sensor and test patterns, perform manual calibration as required.

I had to return to '3' a couple of times as I created a custom colour profile which initially was undersaturated when I measured with my i1D3 Pro. I had to second guess what co-ordinates to put in, though Manni was luckier in this regard as he just used the 'HDTV' setting and got a near perfect rec709 result when he checked later.

My 'rec709' setting has a touch too much luminance on a few colours, but otherwise is good. I was able to correct it at 75% using the JVC CMS afterwards, plus it will make an excellent 'base' to calibrate from when I get my Lumagen 2041.

The main thing if using the JVC CMS is to avoid using the saturation controls as this impacts on linearity, so it may be worth repeating the colour profile process until you get a good result that doesn't need saturation adjustment. FWIW I only had to use a little bit of lightness adjustment to bring my colours under 2.0dE.

OK that clears a lot up and would have been my guess as to how it worked.

The main points is it seems you do grayscale and gamma as one step and then create a custom color profile and run that separately. is there a REC.709 preset in the software or is it all based on coordinates ?

It also sounds like since you calibrated gamma 2.2 you other values were corrected as well since you said 2.3 and 2.4 were correct as well afterwards. I am sure I can get to 2.35 with the grayscale controls or onboard gamma controls afterwards.
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post #3604 of 3763 Old 03-11-2015, 12:11 PM
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There isn't a 'rec709' profile in the 'create profile' section, but in Manni's case using 'HDTV' gave him that result. From memory there are 5 settings; 4 presets and one custom.

I think you may well be able to hit 2.35 after JVC auto calibration by choosing 2.3 in the custom gamma and then using the picture tone control, so you should be good to go.

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post #3605 of 3763 Old 03-11-2015, 01:47 PM
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Yep,

I can live with certain CMS errors around 5. Depends on the color. It's easy to tell that foliage looks too yellow or unnatural because like skin tones, we have more of a reference for what it should look like. Do I know what color red that car is....nope so as long as it isn't glowing neon and it looks "believable" I'll take more accurate gamma/grayscale. Don't get me wrong, I aim to get as close as possible, but some aspects are just more critical to me. Neutral grayscale and a gamma that does not crush detail or look washed out will give you a very good image with great depth.

Gonna order the probe, but I don't know if I'll do anything with it until the DI issue is fixed.
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post #3606 of 3763 Old 03-11-2015, 05:40 PM
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Very little so far at 160 hours maybe 5% or so, though mine had 40 hours on it when I bought it. As a test I swapped the 620 hour lamp out of my X35 (same lamp type obviously) and measured virtually the same as I'm getting at 160 hours with the original X500 lamp.

These newer JVCs seem to be much better at maintaining light output as the lamp ages, so it shouldn't be something we need to worry about like the older X30 (RS40?) which sometimes dimmed to unusable levels as early as 600 hours.


Hopefully I don't lose much from the lamp during the first 100 hours as some have reported. High lamp is VERY bright (compared to my RS20) but the noise on the 4910 in high lamp is noticeably louder than my RS20 though it appears equal or quieter in low lamp. A bit disappointing in fan sound as the projector is mounted directly behind me and approx. 4ft above. As far as the e-shift goes, the sound does not bother me even with all audio off. In fact, I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't read that it is audible.

Does anyone have an estimate of the percentage of light decrease with each step of closure of the iris?

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post #3607 of 3763 Old 03-12-2015, 01:44 AM
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The iris step isn't linear from what I can tell. If I remember I'll check it next time I have mine on and I'll give you the Lux readings from min to max aperture. Mine is at approx 1.33 zoom if that helps. Currently I hit just over 100 lux at -7 fully calibrated, which works out at about 14fL on my 1.5 gain screen.

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post #3608 of 3763 Old 03-12-2015, 06:25 AM
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The iris step isn't linear from what I can tell. If I remember I'll check it next time I have mine on and I'll give you the Lux readings from min to max aperture. Mine is at approx 1.33 zoom if that helps. Currently I hit just over 100 lux at -7 fully calibrated, which works out at about 14fL on my 1.5 gain screen.

Thanks. I ended up ordering a lx1330b so I'mm take some measurements his weekend. After a quick and dirty setup, I ended up in low lamp -7 on the iris in Auto 2 and the brightness is just right on my 136 inch wide screen. Its a ceiling mounted (four feet above the center seat) setup using a 2.8 high power so I doubt I'm getting much gain from the screen.

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post #3609 of 3763 Old 03-12-2015, 09:43 AM
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Thanks. I ended up ordering a lx1330b so I'mm take some measurements his weekend. After a quick and dirty setup, I ended up in low lamp -7 on the iris in Auto 2 and the brightness is just right on my 136 inch wide screen. Its a ceiling mounted (four feet above the center seat) setup using a 2.8 high power so I doubt I'm getting much gain from the screen.
Having a light meter is quite useful. No more guessing when it seems the lamp might be ready to replace!

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Having a light meter is quite useful. No more guessing when it seems the lamp might be ready to replace!
Craig(or anyone), what's some good light meters for amateurs?
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Craig(or anyone), what's some good light meters for amateurs?
http://www.amazon.com/AEMC-CA813-Fun...keywords=ca813
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I have this one and have been using it about 6 months. I am sure it is not perfectly accurate but all I want it to do is get in the ballpark so I can tell when my lamp is dimming and roughly how much.
http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-Digit...ds=light+meter
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post #3613 of 3763 Old 03-12-2015, 12:10 PM
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I've been using a Tecpel 531 for about 4-5 years. I like that I can monitor the lamp ageing, but also if I demo/compare different projectors I can set them both to the same peak white (if they have adjustable apertures of course). That way I'm not influenced by the brighter one.

I don't know if it is any more accurate than the one posted above, but it is my 'reference' so I'm comparing like for like in my room. I've been really impressed with the slow lamp dimming on my previous X35 and so far on my X500 (only at 160 hours so far). My previous HD350(RS10) dropped quite a bit by 500 hours by comparison.

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Craig(or anyone), what's some good light meters for amateurs?
See Using the CA813 light meter to measure your front projector
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post #3615 of 3763 Old 03-12-2015, 02:45 PM
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I've been using a Tecpel 531 for about 4-5 years. I like that I can monitor the lamp ageing, but also if I demo/compare different projectors I can set them both to the same peak white (if they have adjustable apertures of course). That way I'm not influenced by the brighter one.

I don't know if it is any more accurate than the one posted above, but it is my 'reference' so I'm comparing like for like in my room. I've been really impressed with the slow lamp dimming on my previous X35 and so far on my X500 (only at 160 hours so far). My previous HD350(RS10) dropped quite a bit by 500 hours by comparison.

Yours is probably fine, as is even the lx1330b . The idea is to get a reading when the lamp is new, when calibrating and making adjustments, and to track the lamp as it ages. I like my AEMC CA813, but Ron Jones pointed out that the less expensive ones work too. Even the less accurate ones are far better than a wild guess - which is what you're left with, without a light meter !! As long as you aren't trying to compare to other peoples measurements ( except in a rough, generalized sense ), your fine.
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post #3616 of 3763 Old 03-12-2015, 03:57 PM
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Yes I just use it for comparative measurements to gauge how the lamp is ageing (or not). I tend to get a different reading when I use my i1D3 Pro, but that is partly because my screen is quite directional (1.5 gain) so it is hard to get a direct reading from it.

I do know that setting my aperture to give around 100 lux works for me. I know some people like to have over 20fL, but around 14fL (maybe less if my screen gain isn't as high as claimed) works well for my eyes. When I first got the meter I found I'd been watching at around 45 Lux, ie more like 6fL so it shows how good my eyes are at gauging the brightness without a meter.

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post #3617 of 3763 Old 03-13-2015, 12:34 AM
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Thx for the suggestions, guys!

Just picked up a AEMC CA813 on the river.

Looking forward to measuring my Sharp 30k.
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post #3618 of 3763 Old 03-13-2015, 11:25 AM
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Yes I just use it for comparative measurements to gauge how the lamp is ageing (or not). I tend to get a different reading when I use my i1D3 Pro, but that is partly because my screen is quite directional (1.5 gain) so it is hard to get a direct reading from it.

I do know that setting my aperture to give around 100 lux works for me. I know some people like to have over 20fL, but around 14fL (maybe less if my screen gain isn't as high as claimed) works well for my eyes. When I first got the meter I found I'd been watching at around 45 Lux, ie more like 6fL so it shows how good my eyes are at gauging the brightness without a meter.

When I first got my meter, I checked my Optoma H79, not known for very long lasting or bright lamps. With 350 hours on the lamp, I was getting about 6 foot lamberts too. If my CA813 could have talked, it would have said " sell that Optoma ". Which I did - too dim !!

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In my case it was a Panasonic AE3000, which I did promptly sell (at a considerable loss too, but it was worth it IMHO) before buying my first JVC, a HD350 that was considerably brighter (despite the specs) once calibrated.
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I have this one and have been using it about 6 months. I am sure it is not perfectly accurate but all I want it to do is get in the ballpark so I can tell when my lamp is dimming and roughly how much.
http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-Digit...ds=light+meter
I bought this one a while back but the one I got is junk...its not consistent from reading to reading (same light source) and can basically tell you if you're looking at a match in a dark room, or at the sun...that's about all I'd trust it for.
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post #3621 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 06:53 AM
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I bought this one a while back but the one I got is junk...its not consistent from reading to reading (same light source) and can basically tell you if you're looking at a match in a dark room, or at the sun...that's about all I'd trust it for.
I have the same meter. Mine has been pretty consistent from reading to reading. I'd say +/-5 lux.
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I have the same meter. Mine has been pretty consistent from reading to reading. I'd say +/-5 lux.
This is about what mine does also. Not surprised tho at the price that some are not very good.
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post #3623 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 08:10 AM
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This is about what mine does also. Not surprised tho at the price that some are not very good.
Might help to check the battery and make sure to zero it out with the cap on before taking a reading. But yeah they are cheap so getting a bad one is possible. I'm happy with mine.
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post #3624 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 08:16 AM
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I use an i1 for calibration, which I know isn't supposed to be as good for lite settings, but it and my lite meter come out pretty close. Which is all I am looking for anyway.
Obviously I wouldn't use this one for anything that needed to be very accurate.
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post #3625 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 09:08 AM
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I have the same meter. Mine has been pretty consistent from reading to reading. I'd say +/-5 lux.
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post #3626 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 10:40 AM
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Hi everyone. Art here, at Projector Reviews. I'm wondering if any of you with a calibrated RS49/4910/X500R, or even one of the higher end models, that happens to live in Orange County CA, or nearby, would be interested in hauling it down here for a shoot out against an Epson LS10000

I reviewed the RS4910 a year ago, and thought it was great. But I wasn't that dazzled by e-shift's perceived sharpness.

As a result, I'd really like to put the JVC and Epson up against each other, on all the usual content. I already know the JVC beats the Epson at black level performance, and that both calibrate really well, but it would still be fun for them to do battle.

Still, ultimately it's the perceived sharpness that would be my "focus." I've always felt that if anyone needed true 4K it was us large screen folks. (what a waste on a 50" LCDTV). Sadly, until TI, or Epson, decide to finally break down and offer 4K chips, pixel shifting and enhanced sharpness techniques looks like pixel shifting is the only game in town under $10,000 with any kind of black level performance that provides something resembling 4K sharpness.

So, anyone close by and really to kill an afternoon or evening, playing with the gear? BTW I have a Sony 4K media server here, but the content is all HDCP so I'm not sure that we can feed the JVC true 4K. Unfortunately, I had to give Sony back another 4K server which had content without copy protection, when I returned the VW350ES. If I've got a few days notice though, I can probably scare up a Red-ray player with 4K content, now that the guy who does our video production works at RED as his "day" job. Last time I had a Red-ray player lent to me, I don't think the material was HDCP encoded.

Takers? Anyone?

-art

Reviewing projectors sure beats selling them...
---but then, watching The 5th Element
-----for the hundreth time sure is getting old.
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post #3627 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 10:56 AM
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4K player for non-DHCP TVs/Projectors

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Originally Posted by presenter View Post
Hi everyone. Art here, at Projector Reviews. I'm wondering if any of you with a calibrated RS49/4910/X500R, or even one of the higher end models, that happens to live in Orange County CA, or nearby, would be interested in hauling it down here for a shoot out against an Epson LS10000

I reviewed the RS4910 a year ago, and thought it was great. But I wasn't that dazzled by e-shift's perceived sharpness.

As a result, I'd really like to put the JVC and Epson up against each other, on all the usual content. I already know the JVC beats the Epson at black level performance, and that both calibrate really well, but it would still be fun for them to do battle.

Still, ultimately it's the perceived sharpness that would be my "focus." I've always felt that if anyone needed true 4K it was us large screen folks. (what a waste on a 50" LCDTV). Sadly, until TI, or Epson, decide to finally break down and offer 4K chips, pixel shifting and enhanced sharpness techniques looks like pixel shifting is the only game in town under $10,000 with any kind of black level performance that provides something resembling 4K sharpness.

So, anyone close by and really to kill an afternoon or evening, playing with the gear? BTW I have a Sony 4K media server here, but the content is all HDCP so I'm not sure that we can feed the JVC true 4K. Unfortunately, I had to give Sony back another 4K server which had content without copy protection, when I returned the VW350ES. If I've got a few days notice though, I can probably scare up a Red-ray player with 4K content, now that the guy who does our video production works at RED as his "day" job. Last time I had a Red-ray player lent to me, I don't think the material was HDCP encoded.

Takers? Anyone?

Hello Art, I have an RS4910, but unfortunately I am from Brazil so unfortunately unable to join you for this testing...

I wanted to share that for less than U$200 you can buy a media player that plays non encrypted H264 and HEVC 4K files (i.e. MINIX 8H Plus and Open Hour Chameleon). There are various 4k demonstration clips for free download, in case it becomes a problem to use the RED player.
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post #3628 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by presenter View Post
Hi everyone. Art here, at Projector Reviews. I'm wondering if any of you with a calibrated RS49/4910/X500R, or even one of the higher end models, that happens to live in Orange County CA, or nearby, would be interested in hauling it down here for a shoot out against an Epson LS10000

I reviewed the RS4910 a year ago, and thought it was great. But I wasn't that dazzled by e-shift's perceived sharpness.

As a result, I'd really like to put the JVC and Epson up against each other, on all the usual content. I already know the JVC beats the Epson at black level performance, and that both calibrate really well, but it would still be fun for them to do battle.

Still, ultimately it's the perceived sharpness that would be my "focus." I've always felt that if anyone needed true 4K it was us large screen folks. (what a waste on a 50" LCDTV). Sadly, until TI, or Epson, decide to finally break down and offer 4K chips, pixel shifting and enhanced sharpness techniques looks like pixel shifting is the only game in town under $10,000 with any kind of black level performance that provides something resembling 4K sharpness.

So, anyone close by and really to kill an afternoon or evening, playing with the gear? BTW I have a Sony 4K media server here, but the content is all HDCP so I'm not sure that we can feed the JVC true 4K. Unfortunately, I had to give Sony back another 4K server which had content without copy protection, when I returned the VW350ES. If I've got a few days notice though, I can probably scare up a Red-ray player with 4K content, now that the guy who does our video production works at RED as his "day" job. Last time I had a Red-ray player lent to me, I don't think the material was HDCP encoded.

Takers? Anyone?

I'm looking forward to the results of this comparison test. If I had a 4910 I'd drive it down myself from Northern CA.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
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post #3629 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 02:13 PM
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Hi Art,

If you feel like driving an hour northeast of your location I have a 4910 shooting onto a 176" 2.35:1 AT screen in a bat cave. I'm feeling too lazy to bring it somewhere else for a comparo. Mine isn't calibrated yet however - it's just using the "secret sauce" settings provided to me by Mike Garrett at AVS. I also have a Joe Kane Samsung SP-A800B which I perceive to be sharper than the JVC (although dim in comparison).

I do have an i1 displaypro on hand, but have been procrastinating on calibration since I learned that Calman cannot auto-calibrate the 2014/2015 JVC's due to a data communication problem.

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3630 of 3763 Old 03-16-2015, 02:16 PM
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Actually I change my mind - keep that Epson out of my house. I don't want to become mentally ill and unhappy with my own projector. I'm trying to refocus my attention on art films and get out of the moronic hobby of focusing on the technology (which we're all guilty of doing).

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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