Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

As someone who develops software for a living, I find the idea that you can drop new firmware into a product just a few days before release kind of ridiculous. It takes months to properly QA anything non-trivial like firmware for a projector. After it passes this extended QA process, engineers are usually banned from making any further changes as it would invalidate the months of previous testing. It would require another new round of regression testing...

Indeed. And making last minute changes is a recipe for inviting unexpected surprises.
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post #362 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

N
I agree with Mike it's a clever thing to do and also confirm it is the way it is done in the UK. Gives one more chance to check the projector before shipping it to the dealer. And it's still a new unit, as far a JVC is confirmed, as long as the dealers do not open it. JVC US or JVC UK are the manufacturer.

JVC UK is indeed proactive in sampling and validating its stock. I know some people like it untouched by human hands from the factory, but with something so expensive, it is worth having it opened and checked before shipping it out. Although JVC now warehouse centrally in Europe for the UK, I do know they check a considerable number of the projectors that arrive through JVC UK before shipping to the retailer, particularly in early batches, and then periodic sampling of subsequent batches.

It has been reported that the HDMI issue doesn't show up when connected to certain equipment and that Radiances seem to be worsening the issue. It is entirely possible that JVCs QA run is not sufficient or contains the problematic sources that stimulate the issue.

JVC has fixed HDMI issues before via user firmware updates so there is a very strong chance it will be rectified quickly without having to be returned to base for a "special service only" firmware update (e.g. the 3D update on the X35 last year)
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post #363 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Mike. I don't think its smart at all. Its mostly greedy. This method only works if the JVC Japanese engineers only need a week more to further tune the software and, and here is the obvious kicker, validate it. No beta testing at all of the software edits or whatever is done in the last clock ticking week. The product was already delayed by several weeks and further delay would not be economically tolerated. I suspect the engineers were not given the time they needed. Obviously no testing to see how it works at 720p in, 1080 in, European standards in. Obviously this was not done. This design, build, and business model is a crap shoot. If it works, the company wins having an earlier economic return on its investment. If it fails, as apparently has happened here and to me, but perhaps not to some who have an economic or political interest in defending JVCs practices, it is inexcusable to let a product ship with this type of flaw but of course with the model JVC uses, it can happen, and when it does short term damage is done to the business but also the customer suffers a cost as well. Anger, unhappiness, doubt about choosing the product. Faith in the company. Let see if JVC stands up and says it's sorry and has taken steps not to let this happen again. Obviously, JVC didn't know about the flaw. My question and all of yours should be, why didn't they know, and what will they do to prevent something like this for happening again next year? And products like this will usually contain some flaws which only show up in the field. But nothing basic and critical like this.

Why do you say they only have a week. Just because the projectors arrive on US soil does not mean they have to flash and ship out. If you recall last year, the shipping of the RS56 was delayed due to software change. I suspect, they were here, but not shipped out until the software was corrected and then flashed to the projector. Also why do you assume that no beta testing can be done? You are making assumptions without any facts. I don't know the answers either, but I can easily shoot holes in your argument. smile.gif What I can't shoot holes in is the problems the projectors are having with HDMI. That should have been caught.

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post #364 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

As someone who develops software for a living, I find the idea that you can drop new firmware into a product just a few days before release kind of ridiculous. It takes months to properly QA anything non-trivial like firmware for a projector. After it passes this extended QA process, engineers are usually banned from making any further changes as it would invalidate the months of previous testing. It would require another new round of regression testing. They obviously rushed this to market with insufficient testing. Unfortunately, this kind of thing has become the norm in many industries. Buggy products get shipped and the public becomes the beta tester. It's especially bad around the holiday season as everyone rushes product to market to cash in. Sad but these are the times we live in.

What makes you think JVC did not spend months doing this? Remember they had working models at CEDIA. I could see your argument better if JVC had loaded the software into the projectors early. I would think that the months of testing is only done on a few beta units and then once complete, the projectors are flashed. The problem is, someone forgot to check something as simple as HDMI switching or their setup did not show these problems. If the testing did not show these problems, then their testing method needs to be changed.

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post #365 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 08:14 AM
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*


The box on top is actually 3d glasses and an RF emitter. Now for the warm up, -30 here so I am going to wait 4-6hrs to be safe.

James Reid:D
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post #366 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 09:19 AM
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*


I am going to leave the Darbee out of the chain for now, I want pure JVC for a bit. I am over the moon excited, this is by far the most I have spent on A/V equipment, it better deestroy my BenQ W7000.lol

James Reid:D
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post #367 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

*


The box on top is actually 3d glasses and an RF emitter. Now for the warm up, -30 here so I am going to wait 4-6hrs to be safe.

My guess for the top box was a mount. smile.gif

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post #368 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 10:29 AM
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After weeks of anticipation and reading many posts on this thread, my X500 finally arrived on Saturday.

Although I was eventually able to get this unit to accept an HDMI input signal, it didn't take long for me to experience similar HDMI issues already being reported. I realize this issue is well documented here, but I wanted to include my symptoms, since many have not received their X500 yet. I was hoping that my unit shipped with a very recent firmware update, or that I didn't experience this HDMI issue, but no such luck.

I also just logged a call with JVC support. The good news is the support tech acknowledged this issue and said he personally received two very similar calls on Friday for the X500. He said customer feedback on this "wacky HDMI problem" is being collected and forwarded to engineering for review. He mentioned that customer feedback on a new product receives a lot of attention and any trends are reviewed daily by engineering. JVC support claimed that someone would contact me by the end of this week. While it is nice to know JVC was willing to acknowledge the issue, I'm hoping the issue is resolved quickly via a firmware update.

Here is what I am experiencing:

- I mounted the X500 on my ceiling and connected it via a 20' Redmere HDMI cable to my processor, which is connected to a Blu-ray player. I powered everything on and although I could view "D-ILA" and JVC's menu on the screen, I also received "HDMI1 No Input Signal".
- I tried connecting the X500 to my video source (Blu-ray player) directly. No signal.
- I tried connecting the X500 to an XBOX360 directly. No signal.
- I changed a few settings in the JVC menu, hoping for a miracle. No signal.
- I replaced my 20' Redmere HDMI cable with a 10' Monoprice HDMI cable. Nothing.
- Switched the X500 to HDMI2 in various scenarios (mentioned above), hoping my issue was related to HDMI1. Nothing.

Then, I tried what was posted on this thread and I shutdown the X500, then pulled the power cord. Voila. HDMI1 input signal was immediately detected and everything worked fine. This was regardless of cable, cable length, video source, input, etc. Ironically, I have not experienced this issue since my initial setup, nor have I had to pull the power cable again. At least not yet.

The second issue I experienced, which is also documented on this thread, is a black screen and projector "lockup" when switching between 60Hz and 24Hz content. This problem didn't occur initially and appears more sporadic in nature. Sometimes, switching happens successfully without issue, so it is difficult to reproduce. I am able to restart the JVC via the remote control and/or directly from the unit (without pulling the power cord) to resolve this issue.

I will post an update when I hear back from JVC with their response.
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post #369 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 03:53 PM
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post #370 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

ifhima,

Thank you for adding your experience. Sorry to hear you can't enjoy your projector yet.

Rich, he said his projector stopped having HDMI issues after unplugging it. At least it is usable. smile.gif

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post #371 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Rich, he said his projector stopped having HDMI issues after unplugging it. At least it is usable. smile.gif

I edited my post. (Though "usable" doesn't equate to "enjoying" necessarily: I think the lock up/re-starting issues he described as still occurring would interfere with my enjoyment, but hopefully it's not too bad for him)
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post #372 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I edited my post. (Though "usable" doesn't equate to "enjoying" necessarily: I think the lock up/re-starting issues he described as still occurring would interfere with my enjoyment, but hopefully it's not too bad for him)

I started unplugging my projector after I'm done using it. After the cool down time of course.. This seems to have helped.. Plus I also bypassed my Onkyo 1010 and ran my Oppo directly into the Lumagen.. Which might be adding to stability of switching from 1080 24/60 material.. Curious to see what JVC says..

It's a little annoying, but it works and I'm very much enjoying the projector. I'm quite happy having a projector with a stable picture and can live with the HDMI issues for a while. First time in over 6 months I've been able to sit down and enjoy watching a move.
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post #373 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I edited my post. (Though "usable" doesn't equate to "enjoying" necessarily: I think the lock up/re-starting issues he described as still occurring would interfere with my enjoyment, but hopefully it's not too bad for him)

I agree, JVC has some issues to work out and I hope they do so very quickly.

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post #374 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:22 PM
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I got my X500 today and so far i have had to unplug it 3 times. I am just trying to get through the Disny Wow disc. I expected this and am not upset.

James Reid:D
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post #375 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

I got my X500 today and so far i have had to unplug it 3 times. I am just trying to get through the Disny Wow disc. I expected this and am not upset.

Did you get the picture/convergence issue sorted out?
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post #376 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 05:50 PM
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I am working on it right now, when i run the WOW disc it does not seem like there is any convergence issue, but this is all very new to me.


I will add, the image is so black I can not distinguish it from the frame of my screen, when I was adjusting the size it was a little tricky.

Well like everyone else I get the handshake issue when switching from 24p to 60p. Not all the time but too often, confident there will be a fix.

James Reid:D
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post #377 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 07:40 PM
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So thanks to some tips I got my X500 setup nicely. I ended up zooming the image when adjusting the convergence, I also went up to the screen. Turns out I needed very little adjusting. I also did a quick and dirty calibration with the WOW disc and then put in my old standard, Fellow Ship of the Rings. OMFG. I have entered into the world of Home Cinema, lovely just lovely. The Depth and detail the film like quality, oh the humanity. So ya, pretty pretty good.

James Reid:D
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post #378 of 2854 Old 01-06-2014, 08:36 PM
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I am seeing the problem with a certain connection type: my 4910 would not work with a 1080p signal coming from my PS3 over an ethernet+baluns connection that my A/V installer set up. I switched over to a generic 30ft HDMI cable and it can receive the 1080p signal. I haven't done enough content switching to confirm that the issue is fully resolved. My A/V installer stated that the ethernet+baluns connection should be able to support 1080p.
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post #379 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

What makes you think JVC did not spend months doing this? Remember they had working models at CEDIA. I could see your argument better if JVC had loaded the software into the projectors early. I would think that the months of testing is only done on a few beta units and then once complete, the projectors are flashed. The problem is, someone forgot to check something as simple as HDMI switching or their setup did not show these problems. If the testing did not show these problems, then their testing method needs to be changed.

Your earlier comments made it sound like JVC flashed new firmware onto the projectors right before shipping. That sure sounds like they were making last minute changes to me. Otherwise, why not flash them during manufacturing? For all we know, they could have broken the HDMI implementation with some last minute change that was not properly tested.

In any sane process that allows enough QA time, such firmware would have been finished months ago and flashed on the projectors during manufacturing. The extra time between manufacturing and shipping to customers would have been spent with additional QA testing and if any critical showstopper bugs were discovered, a day-one firmware update would have been available for customers the day they got the projector home.

I think the main problem here is the annual product cycle that most of these companies insist on. Same thing happens in my industry. This forces buggy products to get released in order to meet a fixed date every year. I think Sony is a bit smarter in that regard. They don't replace their flagship models every single year and have more time to work on them.
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post #380 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 06:16 AM
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In my case I would not call the blanking during changes between 24 and 60 in my 4910 a "lock up", since it always clears itself. It just takes a very long time. More like "excessive delay". Or how about "unacceptable delay"? Oppo 93 with 40' Redmere direct, via iScan Duo, or through my Onkyo 3008 and always the same issue. But great picture when the movie starts.smile.gif
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post #381 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 09:54 AM
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Hi Guys,

I received the peerless mount and installed it last night. Ended up returning the originally recommended mount and replaced it with the one that supports drop ceiling.

I have two problems and appreciate any input you may have. Sorry for newbie questions in advance.

1) When I tried the projector earlier on a table top it filled the screen perfectly and formed a perfect rectangle when adjusting the lens settings but now the top horizontal line on the rectangle is slightly smaller than the one on the bottom. I tried to tilt the projector up and down without luck. What's the best way of getting the right image when the projector is ceiling mounted?

2) The projector played blurays just fine when I tried it before mounting but now when I start a bluray from my PS3 menu it gives me a pink screen which becomes black after a little bit and never recovers. So it seems like I am also experiencing the HDMI handshake issues that some of you are experiencing. I tried restarting the projector but the problem keeps coming back. What else should I try?

Thanks in advance for your help!
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post #382 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

In any sane process that allows enough QA time, such firmware would have been finished months ago and flashed on the projectors during manufacturing. The extra time between manufacturing and shipping to customers would have been spent with additional QA testing and if any critical showstopper bugs were discovered, a day-one firmware update would have been available for customers the day they got the projector home.
I agree that there are problems with the way things are done for time-to-market reasons, but I'm wondering how a day-one firmware that customers would have to do is better than having JVC in the US do the update instead before even shipping the projectors.

If the bug is critical enough a company might not even want their product usable without a firmware/software update and then it seems that an update by customers has at least as much chance of problems as an update by the manufacturer before shipping, and possibly more.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #383 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 10:48 AM
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Did anyone here calibrate and measure his beamer? Some X500 seems to have a "green" problem and green is not fully reaching the REC709 Standard (or higher). It goes little bit to yellow.
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post #384 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 11:23 AM
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Well I learned a lesson today while dialing in my convergence. Look at the line and not the number. lol Curious how much adjusting others had to do.

James Reid:D
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post #385 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 02:11 PM
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Just got mine today, and after 4 hours of HDMI Problems I'm turning it back to the shop mad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gif


I had absolutly no problem with the X700 that I have reviewed but it'snt the same for the X500 mad.gifmad.gif

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post #386 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,

I received the peerless mount and installed it last night. Ended up returning the originally recommended mount and replaced it with the one that supports drop ceiling.

I have two problems and appreciate any input you may have. Sorry for newbie questions in advance.

1) When I tried the projector earlier on a table top it filled the screen perfectly and formed a perfect rectangle when adjusting the lens settings but now the top horizontal line on the rectangle is slightly smaller than the one on the bottom. I tried to tilt the projector up and down without luck. What's the best way of getting the right image when the projector is ceiling mounted?

2) The projector played blurays just fine when I tried it before mounting but now when I start a bluray from my PS3 menu it gives me a pink screen which becomes black after a little bit and never recovers. So it seems like I am also experiencing the HDMI handshake issues that some of you are experiencing. I tried restarting the projector but the problem keeps coming back. What else should I try?

Thanks in advance for your help!
1. If you haven't already, try tilting the projector up and then use the lens shift to bring the image back down.

2. Have you tried unplugging the projector? Usually once a particular resolution "black screens" you need to unplug and then restart the projector to get that resolution to come back. it's insanely frustrating.

Sorry if you've already tried these suggestions; it's unclear from your post.
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post #387 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 02:22 PM
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Just got mine today, and after 4 hours of HDMI Problems I'm turning it back to the shop mad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gif


I had absolutly no problem with the X700 that I have reviewed but it'snt the same for the X500 mad.gifmad.gif

And thaaats why I'm not taking shipment of my RS57 until this mess is fixed. (Sorry to hear of your problems kraine).
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post #388 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 02:29 PM
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You're right it's a mess frown.gif



I just got the time to take some measures but there is no way I keep it with this kind of issues.

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post #389 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 02:33 PM
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Long time reader, first post. Got my 4910 last night and wanted to add one more to the list of people experiencing HDMI issues. Simply unplugging for a minute has resolved each of the 3 occurrences. When it works the picture is amazing, blacks are better than I expected. PJ is connected from PS3 through a Marantz SR7008 via standard monoprice HDMI cables. I write firmware for a living and unfortunately I am not surprised they released a version that was not fully tested just to make the ship date. Hopefully an update will be released soon though.
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post #390 of 2854 Old 01-07-2014, 02:35 PM
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I'm a little surprised, this is the stuff we usually see from Benq or the lower-end projectors, but for a JVC, ouch.
We know they'll fix it though, so just a wait and see.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

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**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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