Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 59 - AVS Forum
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post #1741 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
No offense at all.


Here was the greyscale/gamma I got using only the JVC controls (gains at 100%, offsets at 30% and low/mid/high gamma controls) with one of the X500s I calibrated.


This was using a BasiCColor Discus (which is reliable down to reading my black levels)profiled to my i1pro2.


I was targeting a BT1886 curve.


I did this quickly as I have a Radiance but I wanted to see how close the internal controls would get me. The Radiance was physically out of the chain when I did this calibration.

Did you only use the gain/offset controls, or did you also use the 3 gamma controls as well? What was your custom gamma starting point?
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post #1742 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Did you only use the gain/offset controls, or did you also use the 3 gamma controls as well? What was your custom gamma starting point?
I don't remember the starting point, I usually use 6500K or 7000K depending on the unit, and then the gamma preset that gets me as close as possible to my target. In that case, I think I used 6500K and 2.4.


You can see in each tab what I started with and which controls I used in each step.


I had to use the gamma controls (especially the dark level) to get closer to my BT1886 target, otherwise the curve was flatter. I also used the separate colors of each gamma control band to fine-tune the greyscale, but as I said I didn't spend very long on this as I have a Radiance and the PJ - hence the bulb - was new. This was just a quick cal using the internal controls to get me as close as possible to a decent greyscale/gamma calibration.
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post #1743 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 11:32 AM
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Here are the effects of each control to get to the results I attached earlier:


- Before calibration (6500K and 2.4)
- After setting the gains at 100%
- After adjustment of the global dark levels to get closer to BT1886
- After fine-tuning of red and blue (in the dark level controls) to fine-tune the lower-end of the greyscale
- After adjusting the bright control to improve the high-end
- After adjusting the tone control to improve the middle
- After adjusting all the controls as the last step raised everything too much
- Final results after a last few changes

That should give you a good idea of the effect of the tri-band gamma controls in the new range to fine-tune the low-end, mid and high-end (just added all the screenshots).


I might have got there faster if I had done it the other way around (high / mid / low) instead of low / high / mid.


I was really experimenting, this was the first and only time I used the manual JVC gamma controls in the X500 for greyscale/gamma.


By the way, I didn't touch the offsets to calibrate. I only set the gains at 100% and used the gamma controls for the rest of the greyscale.
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Last edited by Manni01; 06-27-2014 at 11:49 AM.
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post #1744 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 08:17 PM
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As I read through the thread, I see a lot of comments regarding calibration, adjustment, etc. Does this pj require a high end tool to get a great picture or can one use setup patterns and/or calibration discs and still get stellar quality?
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post #1745 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 08:37 PM
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Out of the box this projector performs quite well. In these forums most people who post a lot here are perfectionists and write their findings to get the picture to a "reference" status which typically means Rec709 color gamut, D6500 greyscale, and a gamma curve of their own liking. But like I said, out of the box this projector is already pretty close to that reference status.
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post #1746 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 11:26 PM
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Hi eveyone,

I received today a brand new RS4910 from AVS (thanks again Mike). Immediatelly after I turned it on, I started getting these cyan/red evenly-distributed vertical lines (see attachments), even when no HDMI cables are connected and just by looking at the menu. I'm on the last firmware (1211.1) and already tried Factory Resets. It doesn't seem to be panel misalignment, but rather "stuck" pixels. However these lines might change location depending on the content being displayed. Already tried turning on/off everything (MPC, eShift, Picture Modes, etc).

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Do you think it's something that requires shipping it back (HUGE pain...) or a firmware/setting might correct this? Thanks in advance!

-JP.
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post #1747 of 2581 Old 06-27-2014, 11:30 PM
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I had the same issue except the lines were magenta in color. For me the issue was intermittent and would come back for an hour or two and then be gone again for another 10-20 hours. After it came back for the 4th or 5th time I decided to contact my dealer. I sent my unit in for repair to Mendtronix. which is JVC's official repair center. I get my unit back on Monday. The repair took about 5 weeks total when you factor in shipping times to and from Mendtronix. If you can, see if you can get your unit swapped out for a new one. I didn't want to do that because my unit has excellent convergence and an excellent lens sample.

Last edited by Seegs108; 06-27-2014 at 11:35 PM.
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post #1748 of 2581 Old 06-28-2014, 03:14 AM
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Please note that a new firmware version (r1211.6) is available right now:

http://support.jvc.com/consumer/custrel/index.jsp

According to JVC, "The new firmware improves reliability of both RS232C and LAN communication, especially when a test pattern is displayed."

Any feedback on the new FW is welcome!
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post #1749 of 2581 Old 06-28-2014, 05:29 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback for the calibration. My starting point for my calibration is:


Picture Mode: User1 (Clear Black: Off, Lamp Power: High (need this for my big screen), Lens Aperture: Manual -3)
Color Profile: Standard (Color Management On with all values on 0 because I first want/need to do a Greyscale cal.)
Color Temp.: Custom1 (Correction Value 6500K, Gain R 0, G 0, B 0, Offset R 0, G 0, B 0)
Gamma: Custom1 (Correction Value 2.5, White/Red/Green/Blue Picture, Dark and Bright all on 0)
MPC Level: On (Original Resolution: Auto, Enhance 0, Dynamic Contrast 0, Smoothing 0, NR 0)
CMD: Off
Contrast: -1 (checked and tuned with AVS709 patterns)
Brightness: 2 (checked and tuned with AVS709 patterns)
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Input Level: Enhanced (this is 100% sure for my setup!! I m on a HTPC with dynamic range output on Full RGB)
Color Space: RGB (this is 100% sure for my setup!! I m on a HTPC with dynamic range output on Full RGB)
Aspect: 16:9
Firmware: 1211.1


This results in the following pre-calibration for Greyscale and Gamma:



What is the advise as for adjusting the Greyscale? If I lower the Blue gain this also affects (not to much of course but still there is influence) the lower end Blue which is already quite low. I then have to raise the Offset Blue value but this gives my two problems: 1. negative influence on my native contrast and even worse: 2. the Blue at 10IRE which is far too blue (I ll post these results tonight).
As you can see there is also a problem with the Gamma but this will resolve itself once my greyscale gets better doesn t it? If not, I can always fine-tune the gamma with the Dark Level WHITE setting).
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post #1750 of 2581 Old 06-28-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
- After setting the gains at 100%

What exectly do you mean with this Manni? 'Setting the gains at 100%'? Do you mean with this putting up a 80IRE pattern and adjust the three Gain (R G B) sliders until you get a 100,100,100% response?


I m using Chromapure by the way.
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post #1751 of 2581 Old 06-28-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post
What exectly do you mean with this Manni? 'Setting the gains at 100%'? Do you mean with this putting up a 80IRE pattern and adjust the three Gain (R G B) sliders until you get a 100,100,100% response?


I m using Chromapure by the way.
No I mean setting the gains using a 100% pattern, so that 100% white is exactly at D65, as that's the only point you can't adjust wih the gamma controls. Then don't set the offsets, just use the gamma controls to set gamma and greyscale as appropriate.

That's what I did to get the results I posted, although I'm using HDMI standard with my HTPC so that the levels match all the other sources.

Last edited by Manni01; 06-28-2014 at 09:12 AM.
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post #1752 of 2581 Old 06-28-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Out of the box this projector performs quite well. In these forums most people who post a lot here are perfectionists and write their findings to get the picture to a "reference" status which typically means Rec709 color gamut, D6500 greyscale, and a gamma curve of their own liking. But like I said, out of the box this projector is already pretty close to that reference status.
That's great to hear. I had a pretty darn good OOB experience with my last Sony projector, and if you follow that thread, there aren't as many posts regarding calibration. Just wondering as I'm leaning toward the JVC to get the motorized zoom, but am hesitant if there is a lot of extra adjustments needed.

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post #1753 of 2581 Old 06-28-2014, 10:16 PM
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Manni,


With your tip about the '3-band-gamma-system' I was able to get much better results which resulted in solving my blue problem at 10IRE. As you can see I now have a pretty good greyscale response. The only 'problem' is the gamma which I cannot get perfect. I think that the gamma you see will not have THAT much negative side effects on the picture but I still would rather see a better gamma curve. You have any tips for this? One would say that I should raise the Picture Tone White level. The problem however is that I ve noticed that the Picture Tone affects the 20IRE a lot also. This mean that 20IRE will become 2.5 and that I will loose detail there. Adjusting the Dark White has almost no affect on 20IRE (only on 10IRE) so that won t help to lower the 20IRE then.

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post #1754 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 01:24 AM
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Glad it helped, your greyscale indeed looks much better.

That dip in gamma is not too bad but - assuming you are in a light controlled room with a gamma target of 2.4 - you'll lose some dimensionality leaving it that way.

I would keep/save these decent results and in a different memory, try the following:

- use a 2.4 gamma preset instead of 2.5
- set the gains to D65 at 100% white
- don't touch the offsets
- using the gamma RGB controls, adjust your greyscale making sure that you adjust each color in the right direction regarding gamma. For example, if in the part of the curve you are adjusting gamma is too low (say 2.2 instead of your target of 2.4) make sure you lower the RGB controls as you adjust your greyscale, to make sure your greyscale adjustments move gamma in the right direction (up in this example).
- once the greyscale is ok, use the gamma white control (starting with high and going down) to try to flatten your gamma curve to your target. Then rinse and repeat with hopefully smaller adjustments.
- you'll have to find the right compromise between the three bands, but you should be able to reach a flatter curve than you have right now.
- if this fails, you could also try the different gamma presets and color temp presets to see if you can find a better candidate once you have set the gains to D65 at 100% (i.e. a flatter curve to start with).

If you want to take this further, one of you should probably start a JVC calibration thread for the current models because otherwise this tends to be OT for users who don't really care about calibration (lucky them, sometimes I wish I could turn the clock back!).

By the way, to leave your specifics and briefly discuss the generic (I know you personally already know what follows), I agree that these units offer a very decent performance OOTB with the right settings, but in my opinion this is just to allow the user to enjoy the projector as you break in the lamp and make sure all is working fine before calibrating. They really benefit from a professional level calibration at 200 hours and then a touch up at least every 500-1000 hours as the bulb/panels age.

This is true for most projectors. If you don't calibrate, the JVCs with the right settings are better than most to start with, but like all projectors they drift as their bulb/panels age. Some of this - normal - ageing effect can't be solved by simply replacing the bulb after x hours, as some of the drift, especially re gamma, is due to the panels. Without an autocalibration like what Sony offers on the 500/600ES, there is no way around that.

It won't make a night and day difference (at least until the bulb/panels reach 1000 hours) but you'll get the last 10-20% of performance you're missing without a good calibration. After 1000 hours the bulb/panels have drifted so much that a good calibration would probably transform the picture of a PJ left uncalibrated. Also the greyscale changes significantly when you switch between normal/high lamp or change the iris settings, so that's another reason to recalibrate as the bulb gets dimmer and you change these settings to compensate.

This will be especially visible in the greyscale/gamma calibration, as the gamut is very decent to start wise and while it can be improved, especially using a good 3D LUT calibration with an external processor like a Radiance, that's not IMHO where most of the improvements lie regarding picture quality (which every one should care about) vs picture accuracy (which only some, including myself, obsess about )

Greyscale/gamma calibration make a real difference regarding how flat/dimensional the 2D picture looks. Simply adjusting white to D65 in 3D also makes a big difference for skin tones in 3D. To me these are the two things to absolutely do on these projectors, especially in a light controlled room, and even more in a bat cave.

Back to your specifics:

Good luck!

Last edited by Manni01; 06-29-2014 at 03:42 AM.
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post #1755 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 03:41 AM
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I watched "Wolverine" in 3D and it was the first 3D movie where the JVC clearly was incapable of producing an acceptable picture at times, especially the first couple of minutes. Severe ghosting. The projector was well warmed up so that was not the issue. The material was too much of a torture test for ghosting. Anybody else seeing lots of ghosting with this title?
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post #1756 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post
I watched "Wolverine" in 3D and it was the first 3D movie where the JVC clearly was incapable of producing an acceptable picture at times, especially the first couple of minutes. Severe ghosting. The projector was well warmed up so that was not the issue. The material was too much of a torture test for ghosting. Anybody else seeing lots of ghosting with this title?
What glasses and emitter are you using?
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post #1757 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 10:30 AM
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What glasses and emitter are you using?
The official JVC emitter and glasses.
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post #1758 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 10:53 AM
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I watched Gravity last week and 300 this week in 3D and it looked great to me. Good color and very little ghosting. I have no complaints. I saw the wolverine in 3D on my Mit HC8000 and it was a movie better suited for 2D
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post #1759 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightjar View Post
Please note that a new firmware version (r1211.6) is available right now:

http://support.jvc.com/consumer/custrel/index.jsp

According to JVC, "The new firmware improves reliability of both RS232C and LAN communication, especially when a test pattern is displayed."

Any feedback on the new FW is welcome!
The firmware update is for RS232 control for Crestron, RTI and other control system. If you do not use any of those control systems, then you do not need, nor would you gain anything from this firmware update.

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post #1760 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeBiondi View Post
Hi eveyone,

I received today a brand new RS4910 from AVS (thanks again Mike). Immediatelly after I turned it on, I started getting these cyan/red evenly-distributed vertical lines (see attachments), even when no HDMI cables are connected and just by looking at the menu. I'm on the last firmware (1211.1) and already tried Factory Resets. It doesn't seem to be panel misalignment, but rather "stuck" pixels. However these lines might change location depending on the content being displayed. Already tried turning on/off everything (MPC, eShift, Picture Modes, etc).

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Do you think it's something that requires shipping it back (HUGE pain...) or a firmware/setting might correct this? Thanks in advance!

-JP.
Sorry that you are having a problem with your projector.

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post #1761 of 2581 Old 06-29-2014, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightjar View Post
Please note that a new firmware version (r1211.6) is available right now:

http://support.jvc.com/consumer/custrel/index.jsp

According to JVC, "The new firmware improves reliability of both RS232C and LAN communication, especially when a test pattern is displayed."

Any feedback on the new FW is welcome!
The Update Procedure that comes with the f/w download is for r1211.m 'with "m" any number less than 6'. Well, the new f/w is r1211.6, So the procedure is technically not applicable!?!?

After all that #$@!! I went through with the first f/w update process, this does not instill much confidence.

Has anyone tried it yet? And if so, how did it go and with what result?
____
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post #1762 of 2581 Old 06-30-2014, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
The Update Procedure that comes with the f/w download is for r1211.m 'with "m" any number less than 6'. Well, the new f/w is r1211.6, So the procedure is technically not applicable!?!?

After all that #$@!! I went through with the first f/w update process, this does not instill much confidence.

Has anyone tried it yet? And if so, how did it go and with what result?
____
Axel
Those instructions refer to the version of the firmware that’s currently on your projector. Not what you are updating to. Are you using Crestron, RTI or Control4? If you are not using RS232 for control of your projector, then the last update will do nothing for you.

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post #1763 of 2581 Old 06-30-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I watched Gravity last week and 300 this week in 3D and it looked great to me. Good color and very little ghosting. I have no complaints. I saw the wolverine in 3D on my Mit HC8000 and it was a movie better suited for 2D
How would you compare the 3d on your jvc with the mitsubishi 8000? I have been thinking about adding a dlp projector for 3d along with my sony hw50. I have seen the mitsubishi 7900 in my theater and i thought the 3d was incredible compared to my sony.

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post #1764 of 2581 Old 06-30-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Those instructions refer to the version of the firmware that’s currently on your projector. Not what you are updating to. Are you using Crestron, RTI or Control4? If you are not using RS232 for control of your projector, then the last update will do nothing for you.
Thanks for the clarification, Mike!
Yes, I use RS232 for controlling my PJ: for 'regular' control with iRule, but also for calibration with CalMAN.

Has anyone tried the f/w update yet?
____
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post #1765 of 2581 Old 07-01-2014, 07:42 AM
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If you are not using RS232 for control of your projector, then the last update will do nothing for you.
Hmmm... People @ Spectracal said that they cannot update their Calman 5 software unless JVC had their firmware updated "to sort out issues found during testing."

As Calman 5 does use RS232 for autocal, do you know if this new firmware includes also those needed changes to allow it?

Thanks.
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post #1766 of 2581 Old 07-01-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightjar View Post
Hmmm... People @ Spectracal said that they cannot update their Calman 5 software unless JVC had their firmware updated "to sort out issues found during testing."

As Calman 5 does use RS232 for autocal, do you know if this new firmware includes also those needed changes to allow it?

Thanks.
Derek from Spectracal said that they were testing the new firmware today (see the last post in this thread http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...hp?f=94&t=5093).

Last edited by Manni01; 07-01-2014 at 09:49 AM.
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post #1767 of 2581 Old 07-01-2014, 11:12 AM
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Derek from Spectracal said that they were testing the new firmware today (see the last post in this thread http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...hp?f=94&t=5093).
Thanks for the info, Manni01.

I will keep my fingers crossed that this f/w is the final piece for the Spectracal guys to release their long awaited auto cal feature.

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post #1768 of 2581 Old 07-01-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightjar View Post
Hmmm... People @ Spectracal said that they cannot update their Calman 5 software unless JVC had their firmware updated "to sort out issues found during testing."

As Calman 5 does use RS232 for autocal, do you know if this new firmware includes also those needed changes to allow it?

Thanks.
I am checking. If I get an answer, I will post.

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post #1769 of 2581 Old 07-01-2014, 02:20 PM
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I am checking. If I get an answer, I will post.
Hi Mike, since you are checking with JVC again, did you receive any response from JVC on the fix for the 3D v-stretching distortion for 2.35 screens with anamorphic lenses, JVC promised since February? It's been 5 months now that JVC let us know they were aware of the issue and working on solving the problem. It's ridiculous they have not addressed this so far. Could it be included in the latest firmware fix? If not, a formal response from JVC "when" is very much appreciated. Thanks.
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post #1770 of 2581 Old 07-01-2014, 02:37 PM
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I am checking. If I get an answer, I will post.
I'll chime in too and suggest to ask if they have any intention on fixing the vertical banding issue when CMD is enabled.

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