Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 62 - AVS Forum
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post #1831 of 3020 Old 07-05-2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I got my X500 back on Monday and I've put an additional 50 hours on it this week. The same issue you have is now gone after the repair (though, my vertical lines were magenta in color). Here is what Mendtronix replaced:



Looks like two boards need to be replaced to fix this issue. As you can see the start date of the repair was 5/23/14 and I got it back 6/30/14. I contacted Mendtronix a couple times for an update on the repair and it seems that JVC was the reason it took so long to get this back to me. Mendtronix was waiting for the parts. I don't know if JVC had them out of stock or their shipping/processing department just takes forever to get repair parts out. It does seem odd that Mendtronix has to request parts directly from JVC and doesn't keep repair parts stocked considering they're JVC's official and only repair center now (JVC closed down their in-house repair center). Either way, I can't complain. The dealer who I bought this unit from paid for the shipping to Mendtronix and the warranty covered the repair and return shipping. I just had to pay for the time without the projector. Either way, contact your dealer if you haven't yet. Get a replacement or get it repaired. If you have particularly good convergence and a good lens sample I'd opt for the repair as you never know what the new unit might have. Shipping to and from Mendtronix did nothing visible to the already stellar convergence my unit had pre-repair. That's why I opted for the repair instead of a replacement. Hope this helps.
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post #1832 of 3020 Old 07-05-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
This is excitedly what I experienced. Raising brightness to resolve digital 17 was affecting my black floor a lot. I now use brightness at a much lower value, losing minimal shadow detail but making my black floor clearly better!
I have two different calibrations I can switch back and fourth.
Lumagen settings are the same but with different firmware, Pre-cal settings on the JVC are different and I used different versions of Calman So not sure if the two can objectively be compared but here is goes.

Calibration #1
Calman 3.5.3, Lumagen firmware Production 050314
Color Cube 3D Lut with gamma target BT.1886 balance to white off
JVC pre-cal setting Differences: contrast 0, brightness 1, gamma correction 2.2, dark level 3
Results: Grayscale, Gamma and Sat & Lum are OK but nowhere close to Cal 2. Colorchecker is considerably off compared to Cal 2.
Blacks are certainly crushed with lots of loss of details.
I also see a ton more compression artifacts in the dark areas.

Calibration #2
Calman 3.5.1, Lumagen firmware Production 060914
Color Cube 3D Lut with gamma target BT.1886 balance to white off
JVC pre-cal setting Differences: contrast -3, brightness 2, gamma correction 2.4, dark level 3
Results: Near perfect measurements across the board.
Blacks are no longer crushed with a significant increase in detail.
Compression artifacts barely visible.
Image looks a little under-saturated.

My overwhelming preference is #2 .

I know many like starting with a gamma target of 2.2 to aid coming out of black.
What I see on my set-up is that this may not be necessary as the gamma response is not linear.
With a correction of 2.4 I see a descending curve from 2.4 at 100ire all the way down to below 2 at 10ire

I plan on a 3rd calibration using Calman 3.5.1, new Lumagen firmware
Color Cube 3D Lut with gamma target BT.1886 balance to white on
JVC pre-cal setting: contrast 0, brightness 2, gamma correction 2.4, dark level 3

I'll report back on my findings.

Last edited by trans_lux; 07-05-2014 at 09:02 AM.
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post #1833 of 3020 Old 07-05-2014, 10:24 AM
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You don't need to use 5.3.1 (I assume that's what you meant) anymore, the issue with the Radiance LUT found in the 5.3.5 betas and RCs has been fixed in 5.3.5 final.


Also you should check if you still lose a lot of brightness when leaving balance white luminance enabled. I used to, but not anymore, so I leave it enabled which improves the results further re colour accuracy with very minimal loss of braightness and on/off. Not worth doing it anymore (at least in my setup, YMMV).


Also I suggest to use dE1994 instead of dE 2000 for both the greyscale and the cube autocal targets (this is in your workflow options), gamma should track much better and the average dE should be very similar, even when using dE2000 in your verification, so no need to modify the layouts in the workflow.


Finally using or starting with 2.2 makes no difference as you use a BT1886 gamma formula, which means that 5% white will start around 2.2 anyway once calibrated and will raise progressively to 2.4 (coming out of black faster than with a power 2.4 formula).


Start with the gamma preset that allows you to get the best final result with the minimal amount of correction. Depending on the amount of gamma droop on your unit, you might need to start with a high gamma preset (2.6) to get the upper part of the curve fully corrected with the JVC controls.


That's why I do a JVC autocal first, to get a good greyscale/gamma baseline before using the Radiance autocal. Unfortunately no JVC autocal yet for the new models...

Last edited by Manni01; 07-05-2014 at 10:54 AM.
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post #1834 of 3020 Old 07-05-2014, 01:12 PM
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I still can't believe they don't have autocal for the new JVCs yet. The 2015 models get announced in a couple of months.
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post #1835 of 3020 Old 07-05-2014, 02:10 PM
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Thanks Manni for info that Calman has been updated and the guidance.
I'll do a new calibration this weekend.
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post #1836 of 3020 Old 07-05-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I still can't believe they don't have autocal for the new JVCs yet. The 2015 models get announced in a couple of months.
It was exactly the same last year -- autocal for the 2013 JVCs wasn't supported until just before CEDIA.
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post #1837 of 3020 Old 07-06-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
It is impossible to turn off MPC if you are feeding the JVC a 4K signal. Switch your Blu-ray player to 1080p. Also if you are using an Oppo player, make sure you haven't set some lip synch delay in the audio options. You should be feeding the Pioneer bitstream audio and any video processing in the Pioneer AVR should be set to off (usually called direct or pass thru).
That fixed it! Just needed to change the input signal. Go figure that the blu ray players' 4k upconvert is not perfect yet... Thank you!
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post #1838 of 3020 Old 07-06-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by m82socr View Post
That fixed it! Just needed to change the input signal. Go figure that the blu ray players' 4k upconvert is not perfect yet... Thank you!
It isn't a problem with the player. Probably how the Pioneer handles it. I've used the 4K output on the oppo for months now and never had a single lip synch issue. Too many variables, which is why I suggested eliminating some of them.

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post #1839 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 05:02 AM
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im having trouble understanding the throw distance. projectorcentral calculator says the x500 throw distance for a 150" wide 2.35 is 17' 6". Is this correct? The jvc calculator says I can go 154" wide with 17' 6". Which is it? Cause i have exactly 17' 4 or 5" of throw from my jvc. I want to get the biggest screen width I can get.

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post #1840 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 08:53 AM
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Ok - I am not able to test this out and would appreciate feedback.

Is the Oppo 103 or 103D worth buying if all I'm looking for is the 4K upscaler vs the built-in JVC 4K upscaler? (I currently have a std 3d samsung blu ray player with no 4k)
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post #1841 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post
im having trouble understanding the throw distance. projectorcentral calculator says the x500 throw distance for a 150" wide 2.35 is 17' 6". Is this correct? The jvc calculator says I can go 154" wide with 17' 6". Which is it? Cause i have exactly 17' 4 or 5" of throw from my jvc. I want to get the biggest screen width I can get.
The lens has a zoom range of 1.4:1 – 2.8:1.

If you are not using an anamorphic lens multiply the width of the screen by each number and this will give a throw distance to the front of the lens.
150" x 1.4=210"/17.5 to 150" x 2.8=420"/35'
154" x 1.4=215.6"/18' to 154" x 2.8=431.2"/36'

I would recommend avoiding being exactly at the min max as you can see there is some room for variance.
I like to have at least a couple inches at either end.
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post #1842 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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Unable to achieve proper BT.1886 gamma curve.
I believe its my meter as I recall reading somewhere that if you read 0 for black you end of with essentially 2.4 power gamma??

I'm using a gamma correction of 2.6 with dark level set at 3.
BTW I did try other correction but all had a significant dip throughout most of the middle of the range.

As you see in the before measurements the red spike was not there prior to 3DLUT.
This could be a result of a higher contrast setting -1 as I do see slight red discoloration at the top end of the white clipping pattern both pre & post calibration??
However the dynamic range measurements look good both pre & post calibration.

Grayscale & Gamma with 21 point Autocal but prior to 3Dlut



Grayscale & Gamma with 21 point Autocal and after 3Dlut



Dynamic Range with 100ire calibration but before any autocal



Dynamic Range after complete calibration

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post #1843 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 12:31 PM
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If you know your black level (or can estimate it) you can enter it manually in the options in Calman, but with an X500 you should just aim for power 2.4, especially if you activate the DI after calibration.


Ignore any spike or dips at 85-95 unless you can see artifacts on screen, it's usually the bulb which isn't stable (it's normal, they all do that). Chances are that if you measure 95% in continuous mode you'll see it dancing around.
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post #1844 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
If you are not using an external calibration box (Lumagen/eeColor) than I woudl suggest you DON'T touch the CMS in the JVC. OOTB the JVC should be fine and trying to adjust the colorimetry using the internal CMS will probably do more harm than good. Also, use Standard or Super White for HDMI. Just don't raise brightness more than 1 or touch contrast. Otherwise your grayscale/gamma goes wonky. So essentially chose your white clip point of either 235 or 255 and leave it be. Ultimately from what I've seen from several of this year's models you only need to touch up the grayscale OOTB and you're good to go. It won't be perfect, but it will be good enough that you shouldn't have to fuss with it, especially since fussing with it will probably result in a worse looking picture. Maybe Spectracal will figure out some new stuff with their auto cal and provide a valuable tool for doing the CMS, but OOTB the colorimetry of this years models is already fantastic. If you REALLY want it to be near perfect, invest in an outboard CMS like a Lumagen or a eeColor box.
Kris,

I followed your advice and used HDMI Standard and set contrast to 0. However, using either Spears and Munsil or the AVS disc, bars 230-234 look pinkish when flashing. Lowering contrast to -2 corrects that, but then I've adjusted contrast as you recommended not to.

Any advice here?
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post #1845 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
I'm using a gamma correction of 2.6 with dark level set at 3.
BTW I did try other correction but all had a significant dip throughout most of the middle of the range.
Trans_lux, I was having a similar issue and ended up setting the JVC gamma to 2.2. The Lumagen was then better able to achieve the BT.1886 curve through its adjustments. I'm sure there is some tradeoff doing it that way, but that setting worked better than any other for me.
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post #1846 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Kris,

I followed your advice and used HDMI Standard and set contrast to 0. However, using either Spears and Munsil or the AVS disc, bars 230-234 look pinkish when flashing. Lowering contrast to -2 corrects that, but then I've adjusted contrast as you recommended not to.

Any advice here?
Sounds like a grayscale issue. If you don't have the tools to calibrate you should be fine doing it the way you said.
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post #1847 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Sounds like a grayscale issue. If you don't have the tools to calibrate you should be fine doing it the way you said.
I do have a meter and will be calibrating it. I always had thought a color shift in contrast meant to dial it back.

Would you say start my calibration with contrast at 0 and see if the pink is gone after? I'd guess after adjusting the gains I'd know?
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post #1848 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:49 PM
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I just ordered a 4910 from Mike here at Avs Science. I was going to wait for a b-stock unit but decided to spring for a new unit with an extra bulb included at a great price. I am anxious to compare it to my Sony hw50 projector that i have had for 1.5 years ( soon to be for sale in the classified section). I am ordering the 3d estar rf kit from amazon This will be my first JVC, i have owned just about everything else over the last 12 years. I know the 2d will be awesome, i just hope the 3d will be a step up from my sony. I have been watching 3d on my sons Mitsubishi 7900 with the estar rf glasses and it amazing. I have become spoiled. Has anyone here seen 3d on both of these units ?

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post #1849 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan webster View Post
I just ordered a 4910 from Mike here at Avs Science. I was going to wait for a b-stock unit but decided to spring for a new unit with an extra bulb included at a great price. I am anxious to compare it to my Sony hw50 projector that i have had for 1.5 years ( soon to be for sale in the classified section). I am ordering the 3d estar rf kit from amazon This will be my first JVC, i have owned just about everything else over the last 12 years. I know the 2d will be awesome, i just hope the 3d will be a step up from my sony. I have been watching 3d on my sons Mitsubishi 7900 with the estar rf glasses and it amazing. I have become spoiled. Has anyone here seen 3d on both of these units ?
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the 3D vs. the HW50. I too had a 50 and enjoyed watching 3D on it. I've moved and am building a new theater, so have been debating between another Sony (the 55) or the 4910. 3D isn't critical, but my wife and I have been getting more and more into it so would like to have good performance.

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post #1850 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
If you know your black level (or can estimate it) you can enter it manually in the options in Calman, but with an X500 you should just aim for power 2.4, especially if you activate the DI after calibration. Ignore any spike or dips at 85-95 unless you can see artifacts on screen, it's usually the bulb which isn't stable (it's normal, they all do that). Chances are that if you measure 95% in continuous mode you'll see it dancing around.
Thanks Manni. Not using the DI. I see no visible artifacts at the top end. However I do see what looks like and very well could be compression artifacts or posterization in very dark scenes. I see it primarily on Satellite and downloaded content-both of which are usually highly compressed. Does anyone know of a good pattern for posterization evaluation?
Yes I see fluctuations in the 80-95 range. Recently I have a couple major lamp flickering instances. Makes it impossible to calibrate. Tried a bunch of things to resolve. Only thing that worked was to leave it off for a couple hours. Also light output varies greatly from use to use. 12.7 flt one time then 13.8 another. 280 hours on the lamp-time for a new lamp or bad power supply

Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Kris,

I followed your advice and used HDMI Standard and set contrast to 0. However, using either Spears and Munsil or the AVS disc, bars 230-234 look pinkish when flashing. Lowering contrast to -2 corrects that, but then I've adjusted contrast as you recommended not to.

Any advice here?
I see the same thing. To be completely devoid of color I need to be at negative -3. Balancing the gains can help a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
Trans_lux, I was having a similar issue and ended up setting the JVC gamma to 2.2. The Lumagen was then better able to achieve the BT.1886 curve through its adjustments. I'm sure there is some tradeoff doing it that way, but that setting worked better than any other for me.
Thanks jstach. I did try this but it was with a previous version of Calman. I'll try again and see what happens.
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post #1851 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:54 PM
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Dan, you're going to love it! The estar system is fantastic. Coming from the hw50 you can expect a sharper image and higher contrast. It won't be night and day better than the Sony but the sum of all the parts will make for an appreciable difference in PQ. Right now this is my favorite projector out of all the ones I've owned thus far.

BTW I'm still super jealous of the butt kickers in your theater. That really turned up the experience another notch.
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post #1852 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:55 PM
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I will post my impressions when i get the JVC. The sony has been a great projector i am just ready for something a little better.

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post #1853 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quick questions: I think 1 is normal....3 concerns me.

1) is your LAN light on all the time, even in standby?

2) when in stanby, if I am up close to the vent on the opposite side of the status lights, I can here a faint sound. Almost like the fan is on or something is still running. It's very faint and I co have to be ear next to that vent. Can someone confirm this?

3) This one i'm worried about. With MPC on, I can hear an odd sound out of the vent on the side with the standby lights on. Now if I engage the Lens menu i hear a series of odd noises while that menu comes up. I know MPC can make some noise, but my 4810 didn't sound like this. Can anyone verify the strange sounds by listening next to the unit while brining up the lens menu. (Lens pattern is ON for reference)

Here is a sound clip. MPC is on and then I hit the lens button and you can head the weird sounds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9G...it?usp=sharing

Last edited by curlyjive; 07-07-2014 at 03:30 PM.
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post #1854 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Dan, you're going to love it! The estar system is fantastic. Coming from the hw50 you can expect a sharper image and higher contrast. It won't be night and day better than the Sony but the sum of all the parts will make for an appreciable difference in PQ. Right now this is my favorite projector out of all the ones I've owned thus far.

BTW I'm still super jealous of the butt kickers in your theater. That really turned up the experience another notch.
Thanks, that was a fun meeting we had. I have been stuck at home for the past 4 weeks with a ruptured achiles tendon that a did playing tennis, with all my free time i have been back on the projector forums and just had to get the JVC. The more time i spend here the more money i spend LOL

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post #1855 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Kris,

I followed your advice and used HDMI Standard and set contrast to 0. However, using either Spears and Munsil or the AVS disc, bars 230-234 look pinkish when flashing. Lowering contrast to -2 corrects that, but then I've adjusted contrast as you recommended not to.

Any advice here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
I do have a meter and will be calibrating it. I always had thought a color shift in contrast meant to dial it back.

Would you say start my calibration with contrast at 0 and see if the pink is gone after? I'd guess after adjusting the gains I'd know?
That's exactly what I'd do. I have never needed to touch contrast yet, but every pj is a little different and hours make a difference.
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post #1856 of 3020 Old 07-07-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
Yes I see fluctuations in the 80-95 range. Recently I have a couple major lamp flickering instances. Makes it impossible to calibrate. Tried a bunch of things to resolve. Only thing that worked was to leave it off for a couple hours.

If the bulb flickers visibly, try to use it for a while in high lamp if you're using normal, or normal if you're using high. It doesn't always "burn" evenly and switching to the other mode for a couple hours usually sets it straight for a while. There shouldn't be any reason to replace the bulb after so few hours, or if you have to it should be under warranty. The fluctuation in the upper part of the greyscale as measured by the meter at 85-95% white is usually not visible by eye, but it does show when calibrating. I just ignore it.
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post #1857 of 3020 Old 07-08-2014, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
That's exactly what I'd do. I have never needed to touch contrast yet, but every pj is a little different and hours make a difference.
Correcting greyscale did remove the pink discoloration from the contrast pattern. Getting good greyscale tracking was pretty easy.

Wondering if it is better to set brightness at 0 since I'm calibrating it, or if +1 is still fine.

Gamma is not ideal. Both 2.3 and 2.4 end up around 2 in the upper mid range. Have you had any success using the Picture tone, bright, and dark gamma controls? Or do they do more harm than good?

Last edited by curlyjive; 07-08-2014 at 06:25 AM.
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post #1858 of 3020 Old 07-08-2014, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Quick questions: I think 1 is normal....3 concerns me.

1) is your LAN light on all the time, even in standby?

2) when in stanby, if I am up close to the vent on the opposite side of the status lights, I can here a faint sound. Almost like the fan is on or something is still running. It's very faint and I co have to be ear next to that vent. Can someone confirm this?

3) This one i'm worried about. With MPC on, I can hear an odd sound out of the vent on the side with the standby lights on. Now if I engage the Lens menu i hear a series of odd noises while that menu comes up. I know MPC can make some noise, but my 4810 didn't sound like this. Can anyone verify the strange sounds by listening next to the unit while brining up the lens menu. (Lens pattern is ON for reference)

Here is a sound clip. MPC is on and then I hit the lens button and you can head the weird sounds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9G...it?usp=sharing
Ok so the thing I noticed about the noise that MPC makes is that it goes away after the PJ is on for maybe 20 minutes. It still makes noises when I bring up the lens adjust pattern or switch resolutions. But the operating noise it makes when it is first turned on goes away. Can anyone see if this is happening with theirs?
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post #1859 of 3020 Old 07-08-2014, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Correcting greyscale did remove the pink discoloration from the contrast pattern. Getting good greyscale tracking was pretty easy.

Wondering if it is better to set brightness at 0 since I'm calibrating it, or if +1 is still fine.

Gamma is not ideal. Both 2.3 and 2.4 end up around 2 in the upper mid range. Have you had any success using the Picture tone, bright, and dark gamma controls? Or do they do more harm than good?
Have you tried different default values to start for gamma? That is what if suggest. How may hours are on your bulb? I use the dark level adjustment to bring up the bottom end a bit but that's it. I have a Radiance 2041 so most of my calibration is done through that with little adjusted on the projector itself.
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post #1860 of 3020 Old 07-08-2014, 07:39 AM
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Have you tried different default values to start for gamma? That is what if suggest. How may hours are on your bulb? I use the dark level adjustment to bring up the bottom end a bit but that's it. I have a Radiance 2041 so most of my calibration is done through that with little adjusted on the projector itself.
I've tried 2.3 and 2.4. They tend to slope to lower gamma values as the IRE increase. It's a brand new unit, so the lamp break in may resolve some of this. I know i'll have to re-calibrate anyway. But I wanted to see what I could get with just the greyscale correction. I will say these are WAY better OOTB. I would even say watchable, and I'm pretty critical...hence why I calibrate right away and just redo it after break in.

I did mess with the gamma controls. They are tricky because of a lot of overlap. I ended up with a flatter response, but since I had to pull the Tone control down ti bring the midrange to 2.3, it's hard not to end up at 2.4 at the low end. In actual viewing, I'm not sure I like it better than just a 2.4 custom value.

I'm really jealous of you guys with your fancy external processors! Someday....
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