Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 82 - AVS Forum
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post #2431 of 2998 Old 10-02-2014, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by chasiliff View Post
I fired up my 4910 last night for some 3D viewing. I watched a few minutes of Netflix 3D with various movies and it was great. Then I did a few minutes of Avatar. Great. A few with Pacific Rim. Great. Then about 20 minutes of Star Trek Into the Darkness which I hadn't enjoyed with my RS45 even though the 45 did a good job with the first 2. I am using the original IR setup JVC emitter with Xpand 105 glasses. At crosstalk set to -3, I had a very good image.

Today, I returned to the Star Trek disc because my interest was renewed last night. Wow, on warmup, the image was terrible. I have had trouble with warmup with my 45, so I adjusted crosstalk to -6 and dealt with it. After 30 minutes, the image improved, but it was not nearly as solid as last night. More ghosting with this movie today than last night.

Anyone else had the experience of their 3D varying from day to day?

I have read about best 3D glasses for JVCs on the thread of that name and I am going to try out the BT glasses and emitter from Xpand and see how crosstalk is.
As the panels warm up, they improve as far as ghosting goes. On cold start up, you can even see a difference with 2D.

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post #2432 of 2998 Old 10-02-2014, 10:51 AM
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Mike,

Thanks for the reply. I was expecting it to be worse before warmup, but, after about 45 minutes, it was still worse than yesterday with about the same running time. I'll try it again tomorrow.
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post #2433 of 2998 Old 10-02-2014, 11:34 AM
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try going back to a 2d source, then switching back into 3d afterwards.

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post #2434 of 2998 Old 10-03-2014, 04:39 AM
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What is the refresh rate when playing 24fps bluray in 3d? Is it still 96hz or 48hz per eye? For those who have owned a dlp 3d pj especially a triple flash 144hz dlp is the flicker noticeable? Also, is ghosting more noticeable when playing 60fps material in 3d since the projector needs to run at 120hz?

I know a lot has improved since the rs40/45 but just wondering if there are still any of the same issues with 3d in the rs4910.
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post #2435 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post
What is the refresh rate when playing 24fps bluray in 3d? Is it still 96hz or 48hz per eye? For those who have owned a dlp 3d pj especially a triple flash 144hz dlp is the flicker noticeable? Also, is ghosting more noticeable when playing 60fps material in 3d since the projector needs to run at 120hz?

I know a lot has improved since the rs40/45 but just wondering if there are still any of the same issues with 3d in the rs4910.
if you're sensitive to flicker, this hasn't really changed throughout the last few generations. X-talk did certainly improve which is a good thing. Sony and Epson are still better here with DLP being it's own class of rock-solid in 3D mode. I can watch hours of 3D on the Sharp 30K with no eye strain.
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post #2436 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 11:05 AM
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Just curious if anyone here changed out from a lower end screen to a higher end one after getting this projector. I'm not sure if it'll be worth it. Currently I have an Elite cinewhite 120".
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post #2437 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
if you're sensitive to flicker, this hasn't really changed throughout the last few generations. X-talk did certainly improve which is a good thing. Sony and Epson are still better here with DLP being it's own class of rock-solid in 3D mode. I can watch hours of 3D on the Sharp 30K with no eye strain.
Thank you. I guess dlp's are still needed for perfect 3d.
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post #2438 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 11:40 AM
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While playing around with my projector in 3D, I can get the crosstalk to a very acceptable level after warmup and setting the crosstalk canceler to -4, but I find the 2D-3D converted image to be terrible.

I have done long warmup. I have switched between 2D and 3D to try to improve the ghosting, but the 2D-3D conversion is hard to watch. Does anyone have a way to activate the crosstalk canceler during the 2D-3D mode? Any workarounds?

Thanks.
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post #2439 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 12:49 PM
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Hey guys. I'm running a 4910 with about 50 hours on it along with a Oppo 103d. I'm at the point were I'm trying to get the video dialed in. The shock and awe of the 4910 has worn off and I'm looking to maximize the pic.

I'm looking for the optimal Oppo and the 4910 settings for a bat cave. I picked up the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition bluray. For what it's worth I'm running a Denon X4000. I'm experimenting with the split audio and video output from the Oppo.

With the Oppo, is auto the way to go for with the color space? What about deep color? How about the input (standard/video level or enhanced/PC levels) and the color space in the 4910? At first I set these to auto and deep color on the Oppo to 36 bit. gamma 2.3 on the 4910. I noticed some pretty strong black crush, which seems to be improved if I change the JVC input to enhanced/PC levels. The Spears disc notes a lot about color space settings. What brought me here is the Spears pattern to adjust brightness has two bars darker than black level which aren't viewable unless I set the 4910 to PC level. I was just curious what everyone here with a Oppo does for these settings? Thx!
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post #2440 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 05:54 PM
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Regarding 3D, There was zero flicker and I couldnt see any ghosting, and I am very sensitive to flicker and ghosting and came from Benq w1070, which had perfect 3D except for contrast. I tested with Hugo and some sbs 3d. The only noteacible bad thing is fast scenes in 3D, made me a little nauseas, unlike W1070 which was solid all time.

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post #2441 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post
Regarding 3D, There was zero flicker and I couldnt see any ghosting, and I am very sensitive to flicker and ghosting and came from Benq w1070, which had perfect 3D except for contrast. I tested with Hugo and some sbs 3d. The only noteacible bad thing is fast scenes in 3D, made me a little nauseas, unlike W1070 which was solid all time.
Thanks for your observations. I also have a Benq w1070 so nice to hear you are very pleased with the 3d on the rs4910.
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post #2442 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post
Regarding 3D, There was zero flicker and I couldnt see any ghosting, and I am very sensitive to flicker and ghosting and came from Benq w1070, which had perfect 3D except for contrast. I tested with Hugo and some sbs 3d. The only noteacible bad thing is fast scenes in 3D, made me a little nauseas, unlike W1070 which was solid all time.
Which glasses and emitter were you using with the JVC?
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post #2443 of 2998 Old 10-04-2014, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post
Thank you. I guess dlp's are still needed for perfect 3d.
using CMD in 3D can take the edge off a bit but the refresh rate has not changed since the release of the RS40. Using a bright screen like my 2.8HP will make it more obvious for those who are sensitive to it. For all the models i've compared for perceived flicker in 3D:

JVC < Sony < Epson < all DLP's. I'm hoping this can change for the next gen JVC's as they have done a good job controlling x-talk for a non-DLP.
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post #2444 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 12:36 AM
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Is flicker related to the duty cycle of the glasses?
Is it that slight strobing effect I'm seeing when I first sync the glasses?
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post #2445 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Paulidan View Post
Is flicker related to the duty cycle of the glasses?
Is it that slight strobing effect I'm seeing when I first sync the glasses?
it's a combination of the panel speed + duty cycle on the glasses. Most will get used to it after a while, for me it's always there since I seem to be especially sensitive to it. Having a dark, velvet covered room + bright HP screen makes it stand out more.
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post #2446 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 10:39 AM
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I watched Alien for the 100th time last night. And like my X500 it never fails to impress, the shadow detail in dark scenes is truly a sight to behold. Defiantly a movie all owners of this PJ should watch. After owning this PJ since January and having put over 2000hrs on it, I am still blown away.

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post #2447 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 03:19 PM
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I watched Alien for the 100th time last night. And like my X500 it never fails to impress, the shadow detail in dark scenes is truly a sight to behold. Defiantly a movie all owners of this PJ should watch. After owning this PJ since January and having put over 2000hrs on it, I am still blown away.
I've been meaning to watch this since getting my FP set-up and RS4810 this Spring....soon on my list.
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post #2448 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 04:19 PM
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Seems like older movies had more dark scenes like that. The newer movies seem to have more dynamic images. Not sure if that had anything to do with digital technology taking over.
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post #2449 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 07:04 PM
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I watched Alien for the 100th time last night. And like my X500 it never fails to impress, the shadow detail in dark scenes is truly a sight to behold. Defiantly a movie all owners of this PJ should watch. After owning this PJ since January and having put over 2000hrs on it, I am still blown away.
This is one of my all time favorites and have it in every format including LaserDisc and DTheater (D-VHS) which looked amazing for it's time. what's interesting is that the Alien bluray looks better than Aliens, maybe the conversion or different film stock (79 vs. 86)

This movie is made for the JVC's, it's hard for the others to be as convincing in those low APL scenes.

now you've just inspired me to pre-order Alien: Isolation on steam, it's coming out Tuesday Oct 7th.
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post #2450 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 07:08 PM
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Zombie, I do believe the 80s film stock plays a role in the look of Aliens which was always a bit grainier. Both Alien and Aliens received 4K remastering treatment.

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post #2451 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 07:18 PM
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Zombie, I do believe the 80s film stock plays a role in the look of Aliens which was always a bit grainier. Both Alien and Aliens received 4K remastering treatment.
even on the last BD release, I think the original clearly looks better. A number of fanatics have been discussing this topic over the years. it's a shame because I always wanted a matching quality version of Aliens. It seems the film itself that was used is the limiting factor.

http://forevercinematic.wordpress.co...8/aliens-1986/

I feel Aliens is downgraded by its aesthetics. Part of that problem was the choice of film stock used in the Kodak Eastman type that was only in use for a very brief period of time. The reasons for that begin with excessive grain and ends with a difficulty in processing blue screen effects. Aliens is a very grainy film, and in addition to that, has very bleached out colors. The color palette is very flat. Blacks aren’t black, and with a film of this sort, creating light and shadow contrast is very important. This creates a rather visually bland presentation that fails to match the highly atmospheric quality of Ridley Scott’s 1979 original.
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post #2452 of 2998 Old 10-05-2014, 08:44 PM
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This is one of my all time favorites and have it in every format including LaserDisc and DTheater (D-VHS) which looked amazing for it's time. what's interesting is that the Alien bluray looks better than Aliens, maybe the conversion or different film stock (79 vs. 86)

This movie is made for the JVC's, it's hard for the others to be as convincing in those low APL scenes.

now you've just inspired me to pre-order Alien: Isolation on steam, it's coming out Tuesday Oct 7th.
Looking forward to Isolation as well, Alien is also one of my all time favorites, love the franchise. I wish everyone could come into my velvet pit to see what I do when watching Alien. My DIY masking solution really pays off when watching these classic Sci fi movies, no way I could handle black bars. In fact likely going to be going with a 150in scope screen in my new build.

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post #2453 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 05:16 AM
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Watched Avatar last night, which is the only 3D movie I've watched start to finish on this so far.
I guess flicker is my only real complaint at this point. The picture was plenty bright (granted it's still early in the bulbs life) and much brighter here than it was when I saw it at the theater. Ghosting was almost non existent. I saw maybe a half dozen fleeting instances where there was second or two of ringing around one object, but it was less than 30 seconds total out of two and a half hours.
But the flickering was fatiguing and the glasses are just not comfortable over the course of several hours, though it helped a little when I moved them down the bridge of my nose a bit.

Overall, the novelty of having 3D in my HT was exhausted about an hour before the movie was over. I no longer worry that all I'll ever want to watch now is 3D nonsense when i have a library full of good flat content. I'm happy I finally have the capability to watch it when something cool does get released (my prime interest is 50's era 3D)- but I'm so relieved now that my upgrade choice was biased in favor of the best 2D picture instead of the other way around- which is the way I was originally planning to go.
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post #2454 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 07:54 AM
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I have now been watching my 4910 in 2D and 3D for 1.5 weeks and I am thrilled with the 2D and mostly happy with 3D.

Do any readers of this thread have experience with the 2D-->3D conversion? When watching 3D sources, I adjust my standard 3D crosstalk to -2 and have a great image using my JVC IR emitter to Xpand 105s. (I also have and use the Xpand BT emitter to Xpand 105BTs.)

Unfortunately, 2D-->3D has no crosstalk adjustment. When I try to convert 2D source to 3D using the 4910, the image always has crosstalk/ghosting in all images. I can decrease the crosstalk by going very positive or very negative with the parallax adjustment, but that knocks out a lot of the 3D effect.

Any thoughts? Any workarounds?
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post #2455 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulidan View Post
Watched Avatar last night, which is the only 3D movie I've watched start to finish on this so far.
I guess flicker is my only real complaint at this point. The picture was plenty bright (granted it's still early in the bulbs life) and much brighter here than it was when I saw it at the theater. Ghosting was almost non existent. I saw maybe a half dozen fleeting instances where there was second or two of ringing around one object, but it was less than 30 seconds total out of two and a half hours.
But the flickering was fatiguing and the glasses are just not comfortable over the course of several hours, though it helped a little when I moved them down the bridge of my nose a bit.

Overall, the novelty of having 3D in my HT was exhausted about an hour before the movie was over. I no longer worry that all I'll ever want to watch now is 3D nonsense when i have a library full of good flat content. I'm happy I finally have the capability to watch it when something cool does get released (my prime interest is 50's era 3D)- but I'm so relieved now that my upgrade choice was biased in favor of the best 2D picture instead of the other way around- which is the way I was originally planning to go.


I also made my choice based on 2D, I had a DLP which was fantastic in 3D and I watched maybe 2 3D movies. I watched Gravity in 3D on my X500 and it was really good. I tried to watch Dredd in 3D and my eyes were bugging out so bad it was unwatchable. This is a 2D machine and a very good one at that. If I wanted to watch a lot of 3D I would grab a DLP to go along with the X500.

James Reid:D
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post #2456 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 11:42 AM
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Yes, and in fact, you can use the calc that was just linked above to mess with your throw distances respective to needed screen size:

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/lens_calc/HTML/jvc_REF.html

Looks like you can be anywhere from 12 to 24 feet, but yes, the closer the better.
How drastic of a loss in light would I see from say 16ft to 24ft? If I place at 16feet, people at the back of the room bar might slightly see the projector in the line of sight. Where as 24ft they would not. Or do I sacrifice that for better video viewing from the primary seats?

Thanks!
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post #2457 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 12:38 PM
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Hey guys. I'm running a 4910 with about 50 hours on it along with a Oppo 103d. I'm at the point were I'm trying to get the video dialed in. The shock and awe of the 4910 has worn off and I'm looking to maximize the pic.

I'm looking for the optimal Oppo and the 4910 settings for a bat cave. I picked up the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition bluray. For what it's worth I'm running a Denon X4000. I'm experimenting with the split audio and video output from the Oppo.

With the Oppo, is auto the way to go for with the color space? What about deep color? How about the input (standard/video level or enhanced/PC levels) and the color space in the 4910? At first I set these to auto and deep color on the Oppo to 36 bit. gamma 2.3 on the 4910. I noticed some pretty strong black crush, which seems to be improved if I change the JVC input to enhanced/PC levels. The Spears disc notes a lot about color space settings. What brought me here is the Spears pattern to adjust brightness has two bars darker than black level which aren't viewable unless I set the 4910 to PC level. I was just curious what everyone here with a Oppo does for these settings? Thx!
I have a 103D as well. I found auto negotiates 4:4:4 with the JVC. Looking that the chroma up sampling patterns on the Spears disc, I found that to be the best setting. 4:2:2 showed errors.

I would leave deep color off.

I use gamma 2.4 as a baseline, but I also have gear to measure, adjust, and calibrate...are you only using the disc?

From what Kris Deering has said, if you use HDMI standard you will not resolve down to digital 17 without raising the black floor. He also said using enhanced causes gamma to go wonky. I experimented with both and I did not find the gamma to change. Oddly though, even if you use enhanced and adjust brightness and contrast correctly and clip at 234 (just as you would be doing in HDMI standard mode) you loose a little light vs standard mode.

After viewing it both ways, I preferred the look of using extended and clipping at 234 and resolving down to 17.
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post #2458 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 01:00 PM
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How drastic of a loss in light would I see from say 16ft to 24ft? If I place at 16feet, people at the back of the room bar might slightly see the projector in the line of sight. Where as 24ft they would not. Or do I sacrifice that for better video viewing from the primary seats?

Thanks!
24' is quite a poke. I would honestly make the last row guests suck it up, to improve your image and flexibility likely very substantially from your MLP.

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post #2459 of 2998 Old 10-06-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Hey guys. I'm running a 4910 with about 50 hours on it along with a Oppo 103d. I'm at the point were I'm trying to get the video dialed in. The shock and awe of the 4910 has worn off and I'm looking to maximize the pic.

I'm looking for the optimal Oppo and the 4910 settings for a bat cave. I picked up the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition bluray. For what it's worth I'm running a Denon X4000. I'm experimenting with the split audio and video output from the Oppo.

With the Oppo, is auto the way to go for with the color space? What about deep color? How about the input (standard/video level or enhanced/PC levels) and the color space in the 4910? At first I set these to auto and deep color on the Oppo to 36 bit. gamma 2.3 on the 4910. I noticed some pretty strong black crush, which seems to be improved if I change the JVC input to enhanced/PC levels. The Spears disc notes a lot about color space settings. What brought me here is the Spears pattern to adjust brightness has two bars darker than black level which aren't viewable unless I set the 4910 to PC level. I was just curious what everyone here with a Oppo does for these settings? Thx!
I have a 103D as well. I found auto negotiates 4:4:4 with the JVC. Looking that the chroma up sampling patterns on the Spears disc, I found that to be the best setting. 4:2:2 showed errors.

I would leave deep color off.

I use gamma 2.4 as a baseline, but I also have gear to measure, adjust, and calibrate...are you only using the disc?

From what Kris Deering has said, if you use HDMI standard you will not resolve down to digital 17 without raising the black floor. He also said using enhanced causes gamma to go wonky. I experimented with both and I did not find the gamma to change. Oddly though, even if you use enhanced and adjust brightness and contrast correctly and clip at 234 (just as you would be doing in HDMI standard mode) you loose a little light vs standard mode.

After viewing it both ways, I preferred the look of using extended and clipping at 234 and resolving down to 17.
Excellent, this is what I'm looking for. So you found that auto on the oppo outputs 4:4:4 to the JVC? Or output 4:4:4 from the Oppo and leave the color space on the JVC to Auto?

Yeah I'm calibrating from the disc, I have no equipment to calabrate. Are you using the natural or the cinema setting?

I know this is room dependent but what are your brightness, contrast, and color settings just out of curiosity?

Thx!
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post #2460 of 2998 Old 10-07-2014, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Excellent, this is what I'm looking for. So you found that auto on the oppo outputs 4:4:4 to the JVC? Or output 4:4:4 from the Oppo and leave the color space on the JVC to Auto?

Yeah I'm calibrating from the disc, I have no equipment to calabrate. Are you using the natural or the cinema setting?

I know this is room dependent but what are your brightness, contrast, and color settings just out of curiosity?

Thx!
I found that setting to Auto outputs 4:4:4 so I left it at auto as this eliminates the chroma up sampling errors I see with 4:2:2. I use User1 with a Custom color profile and the CMS set to ON. If you read the secrets of hifi review, they found this to be a good setting and measuring it, I agree. However standard is also good. Cinema works well too. Natural looks impressive at first, but it overstated.

If I were running HDMI standard: brightness 1 contrast 0
In HDMI extended brightness -14 contrast +8 or 9 (clipping at 235 in both cases)
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