Sony VPL-GT100 motherboard in the VW1000/1100 projector - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Sony makes upgrade of the VW1000 to the HDMI 2.0 spec with the motherboard exchange, cost of that motherboard itself is not that much. So i had an idea, why not to get GT100 motherboard somehow and do the same? GT100 has DP 1.2 inputs and will work perfectly with HTPC and 4:4:4 for the best picture quality at 2160p60 (MadVR+AR and SMP).

Probably spare GT100 motherboard does not cost a lot too but in the same time this should be the only difference between VW1000/1100 and GT100 projectors but price difference of the complete projectors is more than 2 times... Must be just a marketing.

Is that possible to order that motherboard from Sony? i tried calling few sony dealers and they just said they can repair but not sell me spare parts. Maybe need to call right one. Any thoughts? i would like to try.

tr402m is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 02:32 AM
Senior Member
 
cischico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 33
That is very interesting. Even in the land of the rising sun that bad boy costs twice as much, just as you stated.

The GT100 was optimized to reduce input lag not just having display port. It may be possible but it could be more than just the motherboard, but who knows!

Investigate start!
cischico is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

here is what i found so far. attached are schematics of the GT100 and VW1000.

could not get VW1100 yet.

there are three boards, all are different.

looks like the main board with inputs is p/n A-1915-590-A and the others are A-1897-042-A and A-1897-043-A.

i sent request to Japan about cost and availability.

 

 

tr402m is offline  
post #4 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 05:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sanderdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 24
VERY interesting! Following
sanderdvd is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 12-18-2013, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

i've got info about all needed boards and other parts for the conversion but SONY JAPAN said they can not sell it. can somebody help with sony spare parts order here?

tr402m is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 12-18-2013, 05:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sanderdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tr402m View Post

i've got info about all needed boards and other parts for the conversion but SONY JAPAN said they can not sell it. can somebody help with sony spare parts order here?
Of course they say that they are not going to sell it. They will only sell it directly to dealers (I think) and they will only provide the amount of upgrade boards to the dealers in correspondention with the amount of VW1000s the dealer bought from Sony.
sanderdvd is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 12-22-2013, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

ok i found a way and ordered parts. now the question is how to drive it with dual DP. Modern geforce and amd cards does not have dual DP, the only way is firepro or quadro but they are pricey too much expecially while i will need at least dual for gaming. i tried converting 780ti to K6000, it works but still Mosaic is not available somehow. i will try using Accel DP MST to dual DP converter, they said it might work for 2x 1920x2160p60 resolutions but still if GT100 is not in Nvidia EDID whitelist i will not be able to expand it to one big screen like Asus P321 4K monitor. AMD should work with eyefinity tough but 10bit colors will not be available. Ok lets see how it works first with the hardware upgrade.

tr402m is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 12-22-2013, 05:41 AM
Senior Member
 
cischico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 33
How much did it cost?
cischico is online now  
post #9 of 17 Old 12-22-2013, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

around 4k for the motherboard, i did not order anything else yet, hope it will work fine just while doing 1000->1100 upgrade.

tr402m is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 12-27-2013, 09:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sanderdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 24
any updates?
sanderdvd is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 12-27-2013, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

i will need software from sony service portal. sony servicers has access to it. if anyone could help let me know, seems to be board is coming not programmed.

tr402m is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 12-27-2013, 11:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sanderdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Why are you saying you need the dual DP? When HDMI 2.0 GPUs arrive they will be able to send out 4:4:4 2160P@60Hz from a single DP output (current GPUs MIGHT already support this too but I cannot check this because I have no display device with DP input). I think i now fully understand why you are doing all this: the official mainboard update for the VW1000 is the VW1100 upgrade. This mean we will only get the 10.2gbps chip on it so no 4:4:4 2160p@60Hz support but only 4:2:0. Since a GPU cannot send out 4:2:0 it will not be possible for the VW1100 to handle 4:4:4 2160p@60. If the VW1100 would have got the 18.0gbps chip this would all be no problem correct? Because then we could just send out 4:4:4 2160p@60 and the 18.0gbps chip could 'read' this signal properly right?

Please correct me where I m wrong here smile.gif
sanderdvd is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 12-28-2013, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

GT100 has dual DP because it does not support MST. currently there is no source with HDMI 2.0  output (except sony 4k media player which is useless). but dual DP is available from HTPC with all the best software ( better than any stand alone media player/bluray player or internal projector processing). according to hdmi 2.0 specs it support 4:2:0 at 60Hz but it is not really problem since 4:4:4 is very rare for movies , all of them are 4:2:0 already. Same for 10bit colors. You can have better picture but not from current bluray movies. The only real advantage of such conversion is to obtain  real 60Hz. I tested VW1000 upscaling  vs HTPC and HTPC gives much better picture in 4k resolution, the only problem is motion. I dont know about input lag issues since i am not a crazy frag gamer. Thus if you want best picture, best fluid motion, best upscaling then you need to use HTPC and output 60Hz to the projector, since no graphics cards are available with HDMI 2.0 yet  there is only possibility for that is GT100 board with dual DP. Another option is waiting like half a year+ when nvidia will release maxwell with hdmi 2.0...

tr402m is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 12-28-2013, 05:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sanderdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I think I still don t understand completely. I know that the current BR specs are 4:2:0. Let s forget about 4K Blu-Ray (maybe 4:4:4) that is comming for this moment.

So the goal is to have a Blu-Ray (2K) disc play from a HTPC right? I think I already know quite a lot about this. At this moment I use MPC-BE with madVR as output renderer. madVR upscales my 2K content to 4K with its JINC3+AR algorithm (which indeed looks great). The only problem is like you say MOTION (because the VW1000/1100 does not support FI in 4K as you know). For this SVP (Smooth Video Project) comes in. Now here it gets tricky: for SVP to work properly we need to output at 60Hz. At this moment I have a HD7970 connected to my VW1000 (NOT UPGRADED YET!). I connected it with the DP output of the GPU with a ACTIVE dp to hdmi adapter. So I now output 3840x2160@23,976 because the VW1000 does not support higher then this. When I will get the VW1100 upgrade the VW1100 will support 4K@60Hz. However, then there is another problem (I think): a GPU (and I also think the new Maxwell HDMI 2.0 GPUs) will only output RGB@4:4:4 and NOT @4:2:0. Now comes the problem: the VW1100 cannot accept 4K@60 4:4:4 because it has a slower chip (10.2gbps) instead of the faster 18.0gbps chip.

So....... now finally comes why I don t understand why you need dual DP:
A dp input on the board you ordered supports 4K@60Hz 4:4:4 right? I KNOW that all current movies are not 4:4:4 but 4:2:0 but that is not important here. What is important is that a single DP input on that board will be able to accept 4K60Hz 4:4:4 from a HTPCs gpu. This mean that this is the only possibility to use SVP (Smooth Video Projector) on a VW1000 in my assumption.

Please feel free to correct me where I m wrong!
sanderdvd is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 12-28-2013, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

it is just a way how GT100 works! it does not work with single DP. it was made a year ago, so it does not have HDMI 2.0 and DP MST. It devides screen into two parts 1920x2160p60 each and you need Mosaic or Eyefinity to join two screens to one big. The same way  Asus PQ321 monitor is working, it just has single dp but in MST mode which is not available with GT100.

I think this setup is more dependant on power of the image processing chip than on DP bandwidth. There are just no such "cheap" chip solutions available yet to process 4k at 60fps so they made it with dual chips with one half of resolution to each at full fps.

tr402m is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 12-28-2013, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sanderdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tr402m View Post

it is just a way how GT100 works! it does not work with single DP. it was made a year ago, so it does not have HDMI 2.0 and DP MST. It devides screen into two parts 1920x2160p60 each and you need Mosaic or Eyefinity to join two screens to one big. The same way  Asus PQ321 monitor is working, it just has single dp but in MST mode which is not available with GT100.
I think this setup is more dependant on power of the image processing chip than on DP bandwidth. There are just no such "cheap" chip solutions available yet to process 4k at 60fps so they made it with dual chips with one half of resolution to each at full fps.
ok. so it s DP 1.0 or something and not 1.2?

why not upgrade the vw1000 to the vw1100 with hdmi 2.0 input and then wait for hdmi 2.0 gpu in the hope they will be able to output 4K60 4:2:0?

i ve just read that the maxwell gpu is around the corner (late jan, early feb release date)
sanderdvd is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 12-28-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tr402m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

i agree, but who knows how long to wait and how it will work. as i said that is another option. if i will not find how to programm gt100 board i will go that way as well.

tr402m is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector
Gear in this thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off