Official JVC DLA-X700R / RS57U Owners Thread - Page 71 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2101 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 03:46 PM
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I am going to replace my old Panasonic PT 2000 and I am looking at both the JVC DLA-X700R and the JVC DLA-RS57U. I cannot tell if these are the same units, and if not, what the differences are. I am also looking at the Sony VPL-HW40ES for less $$ as it has received such great reviews. I'm sure this may have been covered in this thread already but I would appreciate any input. Are the 2 JVC models the same? I have a dedicated theater room in my garage.
4K not an issue.

Thanks
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post #2102 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ravicchio View Post
I am going to replace my old Panasonic PT 2000 and I am looking at both the JVC DLA-X700R and the JVC DLA-RS57U. I cannot tell if these are the same units, and if not, what the differences are. I am also looking at the Sony VPL-HW40ES for less $$ as it has received such great reviews. I'm sure this may have been covered in this thread already but I would appreciate any input. Are the 2 JVC models the same? I have a dedicated theater room in my garage.
4K not an issue.

Thanks
Yes they are basically identical except the Pro model aka 57U offers an additional year of warranty and has a gold bezel. Ask AVS about the reconditioned units for a great deal. I have one of them and can't be more happier!
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post #2103 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 06:48 PM
 
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The X700 is head over heels better than the HW40ES. Honestly don't even bother with it. Your PT-AE2000 is better in my opinion than the HW40ES.

In the sub $2000 price range it has a pretty decent image but doesn't hold a candle to most of the models talked about in this subforum. If you want to go with something cheaper I'd look into a used HW30ES. Better overall than the HW40ES as it has much better contrast performance.

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post #2104 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 06:51 PM
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The X700 is head over heels better than the HW40ES. Honestly don't even bother with it. Your PT-AE2000 is better in my opinion than the HW40ES.
Thanks for the advice
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post #2105 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 06:53 PM
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Yes they are basically identical except the Pro model aka 57U offers an additional year of warranty and has a gold bezel. Ask AVS about the reconditioned units for a great deal. I have one of them and can't be more happier!
Thanks
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post #2106 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ravicchio View Post
I am going to replace my old Panasonic PT 2000 and I am looking at both the JVC DLA-X700R and the JVC DLA-RS57U. I cannot tell if these are the same units, and if not, what the differences are. I am also looking at the Sony VPL-HW40ES for less $$ as it has received such great reviews. I'm sure this may have been covered in this thread already but I would appreciate any input. Are the 2 JVC models the same? I have a dedicated theater room in my garage.
4K not an issue.

Thanks
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Yes they are basically identical except the Pro model aka 57U offers an additional year of warranty and has a gold bezel. Ask AVS about the reconditioned units for a great deal. I have one of them and can't be more happier!
The 57 and the 700 are the same projector. The 57 is sold from the pro side and has a gold trim ring around the lens and the 700 has a silver trim ring around the lens. Both have the same 2 year warranty. Only pro models ending in 10 have extended warranties.

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post #2107 of 2225 Old 07-17-2015, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ravicchio View Post
I am going to replace my old Panasonic PT 2000 and I am looking at both the JVC DLA-X700R and the JVC DLA-RS57U. I cannot tell if these are the same units, and if not, what the differences are. I am also looking at the Sony VPL-HW40ES for less $$ as it has received such great reviews. I'm sure this may have been covered in this thread already but I would appreciate any input. Are the 2 JVC models the same? I have a dedicated theater room in my garage.
4K not an issue.

Thanks
Sent you a PM.

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post #2108 of 2225 Old 07-20-2015, 07:45 AM
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Hi Guys:

Just got bStock 6710 from Mike @ av science. I'm having problems getting saturation levels looking right for cin2 (the color space closest to DCI). I have the unit a default conditions with all the options off and iris set to manual. The 20th Century Fox 3D image for FOX movies looks desat yellow, like THX. Infact, there is no difference among THX, Cinema and Film. My Epson 6020 projector's cinema mode has the 20th Century Fox Image looking like gold or a deep sat yellow. My friends JVC 75 also looks similar ... deep gold FOX image. I can't get film and cinema to display deeply saturated colors.

I did factory reset, reset all the device color spaces. What works is setting tint -50 and color +50, which is absurd.

Kind Regards,

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post #2109 of 2225 Old 07-20-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
Hi Guys:

Just got bStock 6710 from Mike @ av science. I'm having problems getting saturation levels looking right for cin2 (the color space closest to DCI). I have the unit a default conditions with all the options off and iris set to manual. The 20th Century Fox 3D image for FOX movies looks desat yellow, like THX. Infact, there is no difference among THX, Cinema and Film. My Epson 6020 projector's cinema mode has the 20th Century Fox Image looking like gold or a deep sat yellow. My friends JVC 75 also looks similar ... deep gold FOX image. I can't get film and cinema to display deeply saturated colors.

I did factory reset, reset all the device color spaces. What works is setting tint -50 and color +50, which is absurd.

Kind Regards,

JJ
I used the settings that Mike emailed me on my 57U and I don't have any issues. I will say that on start up the Netflix red welcome screen is washed out but after if warms up the red is pure and rich on my 110" CenterStage screen.
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post #2110 of 2225 Old 07-30-2015, 03:30 AM
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Here is no color space issue with my JVC 6710. It turns out the Fox 20th Century logo does not have standards for its colors. Some blu ray movies are a light yellow, some are deep saturated yellow/gold. I checked the color ramps for various device color spaces (Film, Cinema, Photo, THX, ect) and they look good!
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post #2111 of 2225 Old 08-02-2015, 01:25 PM
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Is it normal for the bulbs in these projectors to flicker/pulse slightly when displaying large areas of a bright color? I was evaluating the X700 recently and noticed it in several scenes. Iris was set to manual (-15), E-shift off, all other enhancements I could find also disabled. Switching to high bulb mode made it slightly less visible but still there.

An example scene from Oblivion (around 28-29 minutes in) where I first saw it is attached below. Can someone else confirm whether this is normal? If you don't own the movie, you can just display the attached picture because the issue was visible even when paused. Give you eyes a minute to adjust to the brightness and you may see this odd irregular-interval pulsing in the white wall behind the character. Thanks.

Sample
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post #2112 of 2225 Old 08-02-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Is it normal for the bulbs in these projectors to flicker/pulse slightly when displaying large areas of a bright color? I was evaluating the X700 recently and noticed it in several scenes. Iris was set to manual (-15), E-shift off, all other enhancements I could find also disabled. Switching to high bulb mode made it slightly less visible but still there.

An example scene from Oblivion (around 28-29 minutes in) where I first saw it is attached below. Can someone else confirm whether this is normal? If you don't own the movie, you can just display the attached picture because the issue was visible even when paused. Give you eyes a minute to adjust to the brightness and you may see this odd irregular-interval pulsing in the white wall behind the character. Thanks.

Sample
Yes the slight flicker is normal even on high lamp. When displaying 24p content the JVC LCoS panel refreshes at 96Hz. To mitigate degradation of the panel the voltage applied to the panel is inverted every refresh (positive on one refresh then negative the next refresh). If the positive and negative voltages are not exactly balanced, the brightness of the positive and negative refreshes will be slightly different, inducing a slight flicker at half the refresh rate 96/2 = 48Hz which is low enough frequency to be visible.

Depending on the unit this imbalance may be better or worse than others, but the few units I've seen all exhibit this issue.

I haven't seen any of the Sony LCoS units but as they use a higher panel refresh rate you are less likely to see this effect.

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post #2113 of 2225 Old 08-02-2015, 02:02 PM
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I'll add that although the panel refresh flicker is a regular (not irregular) flicker, I've found that observation makes it look irregular as at one moment you may notice the flicker and then another you may not. Earlier this year I built a flicker measurement device to diagnose this issue and found that when I observed the irregular flicker the measurement showed a regular flicker.

Also, I had sent my unit in for service and was told this flicker is normal.

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post #2114 of 2225 Old 08-03-2015, 03:06 PM
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I'll add that although the panel refresh flicker is a regular (not irregular) flicker, I've found that observation makes it look irregular as at one moment you may notice the flicker and then another you may not. Earlier this year I built a flicker measurement device to diagnose this issue and found that when I observed the irregular flicker the measurement showed a regular flicker.

Also, I had sent my unit in for service and was told this flicker is normal.
Thanks for confirming. It's not a huge issue and was rarely visible during normal moving content. Only when showing an extended white screen like from calibration patterns, commercials, or that Oblivion scene.

I think it stood out to me because I just came from demoing a LED/DLP unit that had a very stable image due to no lamp.

It's strange that I don't see this flicker at all on my old JVC RS40. Granted its early bulbs had a lot of failure issues.

But you might be right and it's not the lamps at all. The LCOS panels were driven differently on those older units. Close up to the screen, the RS40 shows a lot of temporal dithering noise similar to a plasma. None on the X700. I actually took some high speed video of both units at one point and saw that the RS40 refresh would blank the image about every 5ms. The X700 would do it every ~10ms. Makes sense for a 96hz refresh. Maybe the "double flash" of the RS40 somehow masks the flicker.

I saw from one of your earlier posts in this thread that you were planning to visit another owner's home to see their projector. How did that turn out? Were you able to see flicker on his? And was he able to see it too?

Thanks
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post #2115 of 2225 Old 08-04-2015, 05:56 AM
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Thanks for confirming. It's not a huge issue and was rarely visible during normal moving content. Only when showing an extended white screen like from calibration patterns, commercials, or that Oblivion scene.

I think it stood out to me because I just came from demoing a LED/DLP unit that had a very stable image due to no lamp.

It's strange that I don't see this flicker at all on my old JVC RS40. Granted its early bulbs had a lot of failure issues.

But you might be right and it's not the lamps at all. The LCOS panels were driven differently on those older units. Close up to the screen, the RS40 shows a lot of temporal dithering noise similar to a plasma. None on the X700. I actually took some high speed video of both units at one point and saw that the RS40 refresh would blank the image about every 5ms. The X700 would do it every ~10ms. Makes sense for a 96hz refresh. Maybe the "double flash" of the RS40 somehow masks the flicker.

I saw from one of your earlier posts in this thread that you were planning to visit another owner's home to see their projector. How did that turn out? Were you able to see flicker on his? And was he able to see it too?

Thanks
I just received a 6710 from Mike at AV Science. I have flicker due to the auto iris in either Auto1 or 2 mode. When I switch to manual iris, the flicker goes away.


I'm new to JVC, but my guess is auto iris is new to JVC and they are still experimenting with it. Sometimes JVC really brightens a dark scene and sometimes the same dark scenes will go darker ... depending on how the ambient light is reflected off the faces of the characters. This reflected light seems to trigger the auto iris to change. In this specific case, 2 main characters talking to each other together in a dark shadow scene with the cameras switching back and forth between characters as they speak. One character has the ambient light shinning on their face (auto iris significantly brightens the picture) and the other character has much less light shining on their face (auto iris significantly darkens the picture). I can hear the auto iris going back and forth when this is happening. I expect JVC will have a firmware change in the future to control these sudden changes better. Sometimes I really like this effect and sometimes I don't.
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I just received a 6710 from Mike at AV Science. I have flicker due to the auto iris in either Auto1 or 2 mode. When I switch to manual iris, the flicker goes away.


I'm new to JVC, but my guess is auto iris is new to JVC and they are still experimenting with it. Sometimes JVC really brightens a dark scene and sometimes the same dark scenes will go darker ... depending on how the ambient light is reflected off the faces of the characters. This reflected light seems to trigger the auto iris to change. In this specific case, 2 main characters talking to each other together in a dark shadow scene with the cameras switching back and forth between characters as they speak. One character has the ambient light shinning on their face (auto iris significantly brightens the picture) and the other character has much less light shining on their face (auto iris significantly darkens the picture). I can hear the auto iris going back and forth when this is happening. I expect JVC will have a firmware change in the future to control these sudden changes better. Sometimes I really like this effect and sometimes I don't.
These projectors have been on the market for almost 2 years now and this problem have been there all the time and JVC has not fixed it, so I am almost 100% sure JVC will not release a fix for this problem. I have the same problem with my X500 (RS4910), but to me it seem to be smaller when I calibrated it and got a perfect flat 2.35 power gamma.
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post #2117 of 2225 Old 08-04-2015, 07:06 AM
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These projectors have been on the market for almost 2 years now and this problem have been there all the time and JVC has not fixed it, so I am almost 100% sure JVC will not release a fix for this problem. I have the same problem with my X500 (RS4910), but to me it seem to be smaller when I calibrated it and got a perfect flat 2.35 power gamma.

Good to know. If I can guess what is happening ... a 2.35 gamma lowers the light of shadows scenes "significantly below the threshold" which triggers JVC's iris autocal to either significantly brighten or darken the scene ... making iris autocal seem more stable. Good idea! I have a non-reflective light environment surrounding the screen, seating area and the projector's light path ... a temporarily set up (all black velvet). I can test this and probably get gamma close to 2.35, like you did. Of course, using manual iris will fix this as well.
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post #2118 of 2225 Old 08-04-2015, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
Good to know. If I can guess what is happening ... a 2.35 gamma lowers the light of shadows scenes "significantly below the threshold" which triggers JVC's iris autocal to either significantly brighten or darken the scene ... making iris autocal seem more stable. Good idea! I have a non-reflective light environment surrounding the screen, seating area and the projector's light path ... a temporarily set up (all black velvet). I can test this and probably get gamma close to 2.35, like you did. Of course, using manual iris will fix this as well.
As good as the native contrast is on the projector, that would probably be the route I would go.

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post #2119 of 2225 Old 08-04-2015, 09:03 AM
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I just received a 6710 from Mike at AV Science. I have flicker due to the auto iris in either Auto1 or 2 mode. When I switch to manual iris, the flicker goes away.
The flicker I was referring to is visible in manual iris mode. Seems like a lamp or panel issue. Only really noticeable on large white areas/screens.

What you observed in auto iris modes is very common on projectors using a dynamic iris - no matter the model or manufacturer. It might be refined further on future JVC models but it's unlikely to ever be 100% invisible. I just turn this feature off on every projector I've ever owned.
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Good to know. If I can guess what is happening ... a 2.35 gamma lowers the light of shadows scenes "significantly below the threshold" which triggers JVC's iris autocal to either significantly brighten or darken the scene ... making iris autocal seem more stable. Good idea! I have a non-reflective light environment surrounding the screen, seating area and the projector's light path ... a temporarily set up (all black velvet). I can test this and probably get gamma close to 2.35, like you did. Of course, using manual iris will fix this as well.
Yes, it might. To me the flickering (gamma/iris flicker) seemed to become more obvious as the projector aged (mine has 200h on it) and the gamma droop kicked in. After I got a Klein K10A I calibrated (with an eeColor box, I love this box) it myself with a couple of days ago and I have only seen a couple of movies since then and to me the problem seems less obvious. I have not tested it thoug and it might only be the movies I have seen.

Of corse turning the iris off gets rid of the problem totally, but to me this is one of the things that makes this projector great (of corse without the flickering). I hope the new models come with a upgraded iris and CMD so we can get rid of the flickering and banding stripes.
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
The flicker I was referring to is visible in manual iris mode. Seems like a lamp or panel issue. Only really noticeable on large white areas/screens.

What you observed in auto iris modes is very common on projectors using a dynamic iris - no matter the model or manufacturer. It might be refined further on future JVC models but it's unlikely to ever be 100% invisible. I just turn this feature off on every projector I've ever owned.
The gamma/iris flicker on the JVC is not happening on the Sonys, my VW1100 had a pumping issue when displaying very dark scenes like the soldiers attack Bin Laden in Zero Dark Thirty. I have never seen the same problem on any Sonys, I now have a HW55 in my Cinema nr 2 and the iris on that machine is totally invisible in 99% of the material shown...
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post #2122 of 2225 Old 08-05-2015, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
The flicker I was referring to is visible in manual iris mode. Seems like a lamp or panel issue. Only really noticeable on large white areas/screens.

What you observed in auto iris modes is very common on projectors using a dynamic iris - no matter the model or manufacturer. It might be refined further on future JVC models but it's unlikely to ever be 100% invisible. I just turn this feature off on every projector I've ever owned.
My Epson 6020 dynamic iris was barely noticeable. I could see it working when I looked into the projector lens at an off angle. Well behaved. I look forward to JVC refining their dynamic iris ... even though its been 2 years already.
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post #2123 of 2225 Old 08-06-2015, 02:26 PM
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My Epson 6020 dynamic iris was barely noticeable. I could see it working when I looked into the projector lens at an off angle. Well behaved. I look forward to JVC refining their dynamic iris ... even though its been 2 years already.
If you barely notice the iris on the Epson 6020, then you should love the iris JVC has implented on their first attempt. Due to the high native contrast of JVC projectors, it's iris doesn't have to be as aggressive so I rarely notice it doing anything (only in extremely dark scenes with a tiny amount of bright light). I see the iris at work on my buddy's Epson 5030 as well as the iris on my previous Sony HW55ES much more often.

JVC has one of the best iris implementations out there. People say the Planar PD8150 is better still, but I haven't seen that one.

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post #2124 of 2225 Old 08-06-2015, 03:15 PM
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Yes i agree with regards to the excellent iris on jvc. When i was using a smaller 92inch screen i notice the iris effect distracting but after i changed my screen to 136inch. I hardly notice it. The bigger the screen that envelopes u the less u notice it.
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post #2125 of 2225 Old 08-07-2015, 01:36 PM
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If you barely notice the iris on the Epson 6020, then you should love the iris JVC has implented on their first attempt. Due to the high native contrast of JVC projectors, it's iris doesn't have to be as aggressive so I rarely notice it doing anything (only in extremely dark scenes with a tiny amount of bright light). I see the iris at work on my buddy's Epson 5030 as well as the iris on my previous Sony HW55ES much more often.

JVC has one of the best iris implementations out there. People say the Planar PD8150 is better still, but I haven't seen that one.
It has been a few years since I had the 8150 but I remember it being a good iris. I only saw some clipping on a few scenes. The JVC iris does really well with dark material compared to many, but it still has some clipping issues with mid-APL scenes that I find a tad annoying. But their native contrast is good enough that I typically just leave the iris off anyways.
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
It has been a few years since I had the 8150 but I remember it being a good iris. I only saw some clipping on a few scenes. The JVC iris does really well with dark material compared to many, but it still has some clipping issues with mid-APL scenes that I find a tad annoying. But their native contrast is good enough that I typically just leave the iris off anyways.
I'm the same way. Unless the content is particularly dark I normally leave the DI off. Contrast performance is already so good where I don't feel compelled to use it. Especially if that means I get a purely artifact free experience in terms of gamma and clipping.
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post #2127 of 2225 Old 08-07-2015, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
If you barely notice the iris on the Epson 6020, then you should love the iris JVC has implented on their first attempt. Due to the high native contrast of JVC projectors, it's iris doesn't have to be as aggressive so I rarely notice it doing anything (only in extremely dark scenes with a tiny amount of bright light). I see the iris at work on my buddy's Epson 5030 as well as the iris on my previous Sony HW55ES much more often.

JVC has one of the best iris implementations out there. People say the Planar PD8150 is better still, but I haven't seen that one.

I just got this projector so it will take me months to dial it in. I'm sure the dynamic iris on my 6710 will behave as well as what you've experienced on your highly tuned jvc projector ... looking forward to it ... just need the time to set it up properly.

Very much impressed with the large contrast ratio. Pictures of planets from outer space really look 3D.
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post #2128 of 2225 Old 08-07-2015, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
It has been a few years since I had the 8150 but I remember it being a good iris. I only saw some clipping on a few scenes. The JVC iris does really well with dark material compared to many, but it still has some clipping issues with mid-APL scenes that I find a tad annoying. But their native contrast is good enough that I typically just leave the iris off anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'm the same way. Unless the content is particularly dark I normally leave the DI off. Contrast performance is already so good where I don't feel compelled to use it. Especially if that means I get a purely artifact free experience in terms of gamma and clipping.
I agree, it's very content specific. Sometimes I leave the iris on, and sometimes off. It's a nice option to have to play around with.

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post #2129 of 2225 Old 08-07-2015, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
I just got this projector so it will take me months to dial it in. I'm sure the dynamic iris on my 6710 will behave as well as what you've experienced on your highly tuned jvc projector ... looking forward to it ... just need the time to set it up properly.

Very much impressed with the large contrast ratio. Pictures of planets from outer space really look 3D.
You will enjoy it, so long as you don't have the dreaded HDMI handshake / signal lock issues. I just got mine under control and it's amazing how good of an image it throws on the screen. I've never seen a better overall image, except from OLED, but those aren't available in large enough sizes to even be compared, relatively speaking.

Try out different gamma curves (2.2-2.4) to see what looks best to you, but try to use BT.1886 if possible. The JVC gamma does drift as the lamp ages, as others have stated, so if you want it to stay perfect you will need to recalibrate every 500 hours, just to throw out a good round number. As using the iris is content specific for me, so is the gamma I like to use. There's some good links below in regards to gamma. If you don't have the time or care to calibrate, then just using the THX preset will get you 90% of the way there.
http://referencehometheater.com/2014...gamma-correct/
http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience-gamma.asp

I would also recommend picking up a Darbee if you don't have one. That works really well with the JVC projectors. Makes the image quite a bit more dynamic and 3D looking than it already is. Or better yet, a Lumagen with the Darbee tech built in. Then you can keep a perfect calibration as the lamp ages and have Darbee all at the same time.
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post #2130 of 2225 Old 08-17-2015, 08:54 PM
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I bought a 57U 2 years ago and use it in a dedicated theater room. I've tried to read as many posts as I could but I'm not sure what's going on.

About a month ago I noticed a destracting noticeable change in the picture when viewing two people talking inside a home with windows in the background. The brightness of the picture noticeably changes brighter and then when the camera angle changes away from the windows showing the daylight the picture dims enough to also notice. Once the picture returns back to the frame with the daylight windows in the background after a second or two it goes much brighter again? I noticed it again yesterday watching Insurgent (Divergent) in a few scenes. Can anyone send me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.
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