Official JVC DLA-X700R / RS57U Owners Thread - Page 74 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2191 of 2216 Old 02-19-2016, 11:32 AM
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I've been playing with upconverting BRs and DirectTV from my radiance 2143. Im sending 4K 60p when using DirecTV and the rs57 switches to the "4K 50/60p" picture mode. This occurs automatically and cannot be changed via the menu. When playing a BR I'm sending 4K 24p and the picture mode does not change. Why is this and what exactly is the 4K picture mode doing on the rs57?

Mark

JVC RS57; Marantz AV7702mkII; Lumagen Pro 4240; Oppo BDP-203;Triad Silver LCR, Onwall Bronze Surround, Inwall Bronze Omni; SVS 20-39 PC+
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post #2192 of 2216 Old 03-11-2016, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
Another image of the problem...the lines are there, always. Any suggestion or comment is warmly welcome...
Hi, I know it's a late answer, but might help others... so i had the same issue with my Epson 5020UB / EH-TW8100 projector. It was working fine and after few day started to produce these greenish vertical lines. I am not sure why and how, but this was the "light engine" fault, which is very costly to repair without warranty... I am sorry.

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post #2193 of 2216 Old 05-20-2016, 11:59 AM
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Need help please...

Trying to see if there is a big difference between the RS57U and 700R. Saw a sale in one of the stores: DLA x-700R for $4299 vs RS57U for for $3498.

Thanks.
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post #2194 of 2216 Old 05-21-2016, 05:42 PM
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I think the only difference is the warranty... One of them is three and the other is two years... Forget which one is which...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #2195 of 2216 Old 06-08-2016, 12:09 AM
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Getting frustrated...

Tried my RS57U today after automaton set-up by an IT guy. While switching from 16:9 - 2.35 thru lens memory, I noticed and lag of dark screen and the iris focus did move up. I also notice divergent issue.

Will try to reboot in AM.
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post #2196 of 2216 Old 06-09-2016, 07:03 AM
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Got it working better last night. Just wondering if better to buy an HDMI 2.2 to 1.4 converter. I have a Denon AVR x7200wa which has 2.2 and the RS57U has I believe HDMI 1.4 input.
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post #2197 of 2216 Old 12-22-2016, 07:23 AM
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4k content on x700r

Hey guys I'm new to this forum and recently became owner of x700r. Not sure if this was already discussed here but has anyone been able to feed this PJ with 4k material from PC? Manual says it only accepts 1080p resolution from PC sources. Also, in general, how do you display 4k on this PJ given that its not HDMI 2 and HDCP 2.2 compatible? Thank you.
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post #2198 of 2216 Old 12-22-2016, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serg13 View Post
Hey guys I'm new to this forum and recently became owner of x700r. Not sure if this was already discussed here but has anyone been able to feed this PJ with 4k material from PC? Manual says it only accepts 1080p resolution from PC sources. Also, in general, how do you display 4k on this PJ given that its not HDMI 2 and HDCP 2.2 compatible? Thank you.
You will need a HDMI converter, such as the HD Fury Integral. It works pretty good, I have one. You have to realize that the JVC does not support HDR or anything above 8-bit color. The only upgrade will be 4K resolution which is just a faux 4K as the JVC uses eShift. Also, since the JVC is limited in 4K features, color space may be a bit off.

The increase in resolution is very subtle. On some movies you can see an increase in detail, others not much. It really depends on the source.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #2199 of 2216 Old 12-22-2016, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
You will need a HDMI converter, such as the HD Fury Integral. It works pretty good, I have one. You have to realize that the JVC does not support HDR or anything above 8-bit color. The only upgrade will be 4K resolution which is just a faux 4K as the JVC uses eShift. Also, since the JVC is limited in 4K features, color space may be a bit off.

The increase in resolution is very subtle. On some movies you can see an increase in detail, others not much. It really depends on the source.
FWIW I am able to send 12-bit color at 4:2:2 to my JVC RS4910 at 4K24 from my Philips UHD BD player...although I need to use a custom EDID from the HDfury Integral to get the player to send SDR/BT.2020. This resolution/color depth is part of the HDMI 1.4 spec (see attachment below). The colors appear to be correct if one of the 2015 JVC projectors' BT.2020 profiles is loaded (those color profiles can be successfully loaded into the 2014 projectors).

There's a lot of discussion about how to send BT.2020 to the 2014 JVC projectors in the X500/RS49/RS4910 thread.
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post #2200 of 2216 Old 12-26-2016, 06:30 AM
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Thanks guys. Ill look into that. But has anyone tried sending 4k from a pc? I tried creating custom resolution thats supported by this pj but i didnt get any picture.
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post #2201 of 2216 Old 12-26-2016, 06:48 AM
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I am also wondering about UHD and the JVC RS57 (X700R).

I'm looking at picking up a Samsung 4K UHD Blu-Ray Player (UBD-K8500) and was wondering if my projector can even display UHD?

Will it be much better than my Oppo BDP-103?

(I also posted here, UHD on previous generation JVC PJ so let me know if I should delete one thanks)

VIDEO: JVC DLA-RS57U Projector / 122″ EluneVision Reference Studio 4K Cinemascope Screen - Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray Player - PlayStation 3 AVR: Anthem MRX-1120 SPEAKERS: Paradigm Monitor 11 Mains - Paradigm Monitor CC-390 Center - Paradigm Monitor ADP-390 Surrounds x 4 - Polk MC60 Atmos Ceiling x 4 SUBWOOFERS: SVS PB2000 / Velodyne DPS-12
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post #2202 of 2216 Old 12-28-2016, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze13 View Post
I am also wondering about UHD and the JVC RS57 (X700R).

I'm looking at picking up a Samsung 4K UHD Blu-Ray Player (UBD-K8500) and was wondering if my projector can even display UHD?

Will it be much better than my Oppo BDP-103?

(I also posted here, UHD on previous generation JVC PJ so let me know if I should delete one thanks)
I have the JVC RS-57U and a Samsung UBD-k8500 as well... You will need a HDCP/HDMI converter such as the HD Fury Integral in order to use them together. You will get a 4K signal but will not get HDR or WCG as the JVC does not support it...

Compared to a normal HD player, there is a perceptible increase in detail, but I would not say it is dynamic...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #2203 of 2216 Old 12-29-2016, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
I have the JVC RS-57U and a Samsung UBD-k8500 as well... You will need a HDCP/HDMI converter such as the HD Fury Integral in order to use them together. You will get a 4K signal but will not get HDR or WCG as the JVC does not support it...

Compared to a normal HD player, there is a perceptible increase in detail, but I would not say it is dynamic...
The RS57 definitely supports WCG; you just need an HDfury Integral/Linker and a UHD BD player that can output SDR/BT.2020. The Philips, Panasonic, and Oppo players can do this, but the Samsung cannot.

There is much discussion about how to get this working in the Oppo 203 thread, the Integral thread, the Philips UHD BD player thread, the Panasonic UB900 thresd, and the JVC X500/RS4910 thread, among others.
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post #2204 of 2216 Old 12-30-2016, 06:47 AM
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Well I watched Suicide Squad (which I had never seen before) on 4K and I was surprised how dark the picture was. Picture mode was set to normal and when I did some comparisons on Pacific Rim I realized that mode is super dark.

4K Normal


4K Dynamic


1080P Oppo BDP-103


4K Dynamic


1080P Oppo

VIDEO: JVC DLA-RS57U Projector / 122″ EluneVision Reference Studio 4K Cinemascope Screen - Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray Player - PlayStation 3 AVR: Anthem MRX-1120 SPEAKERS: Paradigm Monitor 11 Mains - Paradigm Monitor CC-390 Center - Paradigm Monitor ADP-390 Surrounds x 4 - Polk MC60 Atmos Ceiling x 4 SUBWOOFERS: SVS PB2000 / Velodyne DPS-12
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post #2205 of 2216 Old 01-09-2017, 11:52 AM
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Hey guys, has anyone tried cleaning prism on this projector that sits behind the bulb? I read somewhere that JVC PJ get soot on the prims an that reduced light output and changes color tracking. Not sure if it applies to this PJ. Thanks,
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post #2206 of 2216 Old 01-12-2017, 07:41 AM
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Hello,

I've been searching and can't seem to find any posted isf settings. I'm not looking for grey scale etc, as I have my own meters and software. I'm looking for the other setting like iris, super white, etc. I just need a idea what most loeple are using.

Also, I can't for the life of me find exactly what the gamma controls mean on this thing. Does anyone have a link or write up I can read on how to adjust gamma? Picture tone, dark level, and bright level? I have never seen this before as I only owned plasmas.

Does anyone know which software version I should have and if there is auto cal software? I only see one for the 2015 models.

I know this is a lot of questions but I would greatly appreciate any help as I really want to calibrate my PJ shortly.

Thank you,
Michael
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post #2207 of 2216 Old 01-17-2017, 08:09 AM
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Hello,

I've been searching and can't seem to find any posted isf settings. I'm not looking for grey scale etc, as I have my own meters and software. I'm looking for the other setting like iris, super white, etc. I just need a idea what most loeple are using.

Also, I can't for the life of me find exactly what the gamma controls mean on this thing. Does anyone have a link or write up I can read on how to adjust gamma? Picture tone, dark level, and bright level? I have never seen this before as I only owned plasmas.

Does anyone know which software version I should have and if there is auto cal software? I only see one for the 2015 models.

I know this is a lot of questions but I would greatly appreciate any help as I really want to calibrate my PJ shortly.

Thank you,
Michael
Hi ShockFrett, I've just finished calibrating my PJ with CHFR and iDisplay 3 meter. I didn't use ISF mode so cant really answer that part, but at least for gamma controls you can treat them as exposure on the camera. It changes bright and dark areas across all gamma curve and it doesn't have any impact on actual gamma response. Your overall dark/whites get over/under exposed at all gamma points. I also checked and it has no impact on actual change in gamma or color. However, one weird thing I found on my PJ is that my average gamma in CHFR shows as 1.8 while its not even close to 1.8 when looking at the picture, it seems rather around 2.4 subjectively. So I would be interested what results you get on your calibration. Please post them when you have it. Thanks.
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post #2208 of 2216 Old 01-19-2017, 07:29 AM
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Anybody able to use an HDFury Integral to get 4K signal from their Shield TV to RS57/X700R? If so, what color space were you able to achieve? I have a 2017 Shield TV and I had major handshaking issues when i first powered it up (it wanted to connect at 4k2k 60 by default which the RS57 did not like. I was finally able to get it to 1080p so that I could even get a picture on the PJ. Even at 1080p the Shield keeps defaulting back to 8 bit RGB (even when I select other options). Not sure if this is a Shield issue, or HDCP 2.2 / 1.4 issue. I'm using a Denon x3300W if that helps.
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post #2209 of 2216 Old 01-26-2017, 06:57 AM
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JVC PK-L2312U Original OEM Replacement Lamp If anyone is looking for a new genuine JVC lamp for their projectors, I have two available for sale at a great price. They are listed in the classifieds. PM me if interested.

$169 each shipped.
is lamp with or w/o housing?
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post #2210 of 2216 Old 06-24-2017, 03:17 PM
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New to the JVC family

Got a low hr used RS57 a couple of months ago (along with a new OEM lamp in box). Could not install it for a few weeks due to building inspectors (live in a rented property and thought it best to not have a 50 lbs hanging overhead when they inspected).

Coming from a Mits HC3800 DLP and before that, way way back, an Optoma H31, and Optoma H30 (my first PJ).

Following is what I posted in the HC3800 thread, thought to post here as things are rather quite in this thread now. I know many have moved on to brighter JVC's, but I run a small screen so the RS57 was the right fit for me. My target was a used X500/RS49/4910, but ended up with low hr RS57 for the same price as used X500.

Thinking my thoughts might help those in the market for used RS57/X700.

>>>>
I'm coming from a Mits HC3800. I was expecting big improvements in Black levels and shadow detail----and essentially I got that, but perhaps not as much as I expected. Was almost expecting 'Inky blacks' that so many seem to mention, that there could not really be any improvements beyond a RS57----I think that might be a bit hyperbolic. The only time I've seen real inky blacks was on a OLED display. So black level is much improved over the HC3800, shadow detail doesn't seem much better, but I seem to be dialing that in. The lamp had 560 hrs or so on it and it seemed like I had a good amount of black crush in most of the picture modes, like Natural and especially THX mode, which is supposed to be pretty bang on OTB according to everyone. But, I've also read about Gamma drift after a few hundred hrs and perhaps that's what I'm seeing. Trying lower gamma's----2.1, 2.0, etc, seemed to help a lot. So perhaps that is the 'gamma drift'. I'm thinking of popping the new lamp in to see if the gamma snaps back into place (so I know what it looks like), though I'm assuming the gamma drift is from the lamp and not something else (like the Lcos panels---which would be crazy if so).

I don't really see much improvement on bright scenes---which I kinda expected. Even though in the HC3800 thread there's a few posters who upgraded to a Sony 40ES or something and saw huge improvements across the board, including bright scenes. We went back in forth a bit on this and I think the reason they saw big pop differences in bright scenes with the Sony vs HC3800 is because they had too big of a screen for the HC3800 and they popped in place a PJ (40ES, etc) that had twice the lumens, so of course it popped better!

I have a very small screen---80" diagonal 16:9 in a very small room. Sit about 9 ft back. Also, it's a .9 gray screen. This was a good match for the HC3800---trying to get a little bit more better blacks from it. I was expecting the RS57 to be a light cannon on this screen and that I'd need to clamp the manual iris all the way down, but not at all. I've settled on -9 manual and auto 2 on the dynamic. Perhaps there's more than 560 hrs on the lamp, I dunno. Again, I might try the new lamp to see.

It is quite a bit quieter than my HC3800, though the lens door opening/closing noise is insanely loud! Sounds like you're opening the hanger the space shuttle is housed in! You'll see!

Convergence wasn't perfect, but seems ok. I'll try to examine and see if I can improve it, but my first attempts failed miserably. You lose 1:1 pixel mapping when you try to adjust pixel convergence, and it made it worse when I tried to adjust. I'll revisit later. Focus uniformity seems to be a bit better than my HC3800 (probably due to a much better lens), but the pic doesn't 'appear' to be any sharper. Though it doesn't appear softer---which I was afraid of (DLP to 3 chip). I'm guessing a high end single chip DLP with expensive lens would be sharper.

Even though I knew the RS57 was a lot larger and heavier than my HC3800, in real life it was way more than I expected. It weighs 33 lbs (compared to 8 lbs HC3800), but for whatever reason feels way heavier than that! It's gonna be a project to ceiling mount it for sure. My original mounting set up for my 8 lb HC3800 ain't gonna cut it. I gotta reconfigure for 50 lbs (PJ + mount weight, etc.).

So overall I'm happy at the $2k purchase point, but super glad I didn't pay the $7k or so many did when new. That's a for sure point for me.
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post #2211 of 2216 Old 06-24-2017, 03:18 PM
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Posted a few days after the above post>

I've tried the JVC pseudo 4k gimmick (on reg blu rays of course) but couldn't really see a difference from a few feet back. A few inches from the screen you can of course see the pixel lines disappear when 4k is switched on, but can't see that at all from the seating area. I'm guessing you would probably see some difference with true 4k sources. Also, right now the RS57 is on a shelf about 1 ft from my head (until I figure out a robust ceiling mount) and you can clearly hear the 'buzzing' from the PJ when the 4k mode is turned on. I've read that the Lcos panels are being vibrated very fast to produce the overlapping 1080 images to create pseudo 4k. If this is actually true, it worries me about how convergence can possibly be worsened by this mechanical process. So since I can't see a difference, + the noise (1 ft from head) + my fear of convergences worsening, I leave it off for now.
BTW, it's 'on' by default in THX mode, you can't turn it off.

Note regarding blacks/shadow details on the RS57> I might be running into the limitations of my room, I'm not in a bat cave.

I have dark'ish wood floors, side walls and ceiling are dirty beige, but at the screen wall/ceiling junction I built a bass trap soffit that extends from the electric screen case up to the ceiling ---about 2ft worth, at an angle, and is covered is very dark brown speaker cloth---this seems to help the early ceiling reflection a bit. Plus the top of my screen is about 2ft below the ceiling.

At the back wall are windows with white blinds----I do have black out roller shades that I can pull down---they are dark blue on the room side. Haven't tried using them for night time viewing (they were meant for daytime viewing and I didn't notice much difference at night time with the HC3800).

I'm guessing for the dark mixed scene stuff my room is not helping. The extreme example of this is the opening scene in Star Wars The Force Awakens. The blacked out spaceship comes into the scene with a very bright (moon bright) planet and before it blocks out the planet, the brightness of that planet lights up the room. Would be interesting to see this scene on my RS57 in a bat cave

Yeah, it's my living room so only so much I can do. Yet I figured the JVC was still gonna show the blacks/contrast advantage over the HC3800 and it certainly does. So I'm happy about that.

Up to now I've had the RS57 table mounted while my HC3800 was still ceiling mounted. I hope to have the JVC ceiling mounted by next week. I'm taking my time since it's about 45+ lbs (including mount) hanging above my head and difficult to find studs in my place (old stucco style place----so has those thin wooden slats behind the stucco). I have to spread the load with some 1/2" ply (about 16x16") mounted to ceiling.

When I ceiling mount the JVC I'll try to do a split screen comparison to the HC3800 since I can lens shift the JVC horizontally, then I can just table mount the HC3800 off to the side, etc. While having both PJ's on will of course light the room up more (especially since I don't have a bat cave), it will certainly at least give me instant comparisons for bright content.

I think that I'm running the JVC a little brighter than the HC3800....the HC3800 has about 950hrs, the JVC 560hrs. Running the JVC -9 manual iris and Auto2 on the dynamic. I'll probably have to clamp the iris down a little more or run the HC3800 in high lamp when I do the side-by side compare. Probably try to clamp the iris if it can clamp down enough (to avoid lighting up the room any more).
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post #2212 of 2216 Old 06-24-2017, 03:19 PM
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And a few days after that>>>

Minor update>

Got my RS57 ceiling mounted and have had more time dialing it in via calibration discs and eyes.

I'm finding a better balance of blacks/shadows by playing with the gamma a bit more. I'm running a lower gamma preset...like 2.1 or 2.2 with the dark gamma at +2 on all colors. These JVC's are known to have 'gamma drift' after a few hundred hrs or so and I'm at 600hrs. Though I'm still playing...every time I see black crush I'm switching/playing with gamma to see if I can improve. Though I think many (most?) of those times it might be more source related (i.e., the movie blu ray or HD cable source), yet I'm never sure.

Bottom line is it's better than it was before.

Also, I watched a few flicks with my back wall/window roller black out shades down. This is the wall opposite my screen...about 10 ft from the screen, so not far from the screen and a perfect reflection angle back to the screen. The 2 windows have white blinds. At night, there's no light coming in, but my PJ will light up the white blinds and of course this reflects back onto my screen.
The black out roller shades that I can pull down in front of the blinds are a very dark midnight blue on the interior side, so minimal reflections. Before, with the 3800, I didn't notice much of a difference in blacks/contrast with the roller shades down. I had only used them during daytime viewing but rarely--if ever, for nighttime. With the RS57 @ nighttime and the dark midnight blue roller shades down, I notice a much bigger blacks/contrast performance with the RS57. There were some space scenes with just space and stars and at times when there was a bright scene and a quick cut to the space scene of mostly black space with just stars, it appeared as those my screen just disappeared into an almost black abyss---at least like never before. Most of this was due to my eyes not adjusting quick enough from the bright scene to the black space scene, but never before had this happened with the 3800 or even the RS57 before the dark shades of my back wall rolled down.

There are times when I don't think the PQ could get much better---most of the time actually. But then there are those times when there's black crush crush and I'm trying to adjust it out. I can adjust it out or make it better for just that scene, but then it affects the majority of other scenes making them a little too hazy, etc. So I comprise with some black crush in some scenes and really good PQ in most other scenes.

Note that I've seen/had black crush with the 3800 as well. Was just hoping I would never see it again with the RS57 but that hasn't been the case, yet
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post #2213 of 2216 Old 06-24-2017, 03:20 PM
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And finally, after ceiling mounting the RS57>>>

Side by Side comparison of Mits 3800 vs JVC RS57 (X700).

Last night I was finally able to do a side by side comparison of these PJ's on the same screen at the same time. Previously I had relied on video memory (the brain kind--so not so good), and the blocking of the lens method (both PJ's on same screen, blocking 1 lens image--alternating)--better.

But to me the best comparison is side by side at the same time. To achieve this I had to shift the (now ceiling mounted) JVC image to one side while projecting the 3800 on the other side of the screen. But since I was using ALL of the JVC's vertical shift, I had to shift the JVC image back up so high to free up horizontal shift enough to project the 3800 image on the other side (though I couldn’t get it past the ½ width mark). End result is each projector was using only about 1/4 of the screen. And the 3800 image was a bit smaller too (could not get the 3800 back far enough in table mount mode to make the images the same size).

Both PJ's were about equal brightness by my eyes.
I'm running a small 80" diagonal 16:9 gray screen, .9 gain.
RS57 was -12 Iris and auto 2 dynamic iris.
3800 was in low lamp mode.

First up was 'Lucy' blu ray....the beginning scenes where Lucy is at the swanky hotel arguing with her male friend about the 'package'. These are close up outside daytime head shots mostly and very detailed (was a 4k shot movie). Then the scenes inside the hotel lobby while Lucy is at the reception desk (black suit) and the shot of the 'goons' walking in---all dressed in black suits

>>>Overall Sharpness> Edge to the 3800. Not a huge difference, but certainly noticeable. What was also noticeable was the pixel grid on the 3800 vs the RS57 at close range (not viewing range). Even in 1080p mode on the RS57 (so not quasi 4k mode), the RS57 pixels were practically invisible on my somewhat textured screen. When I set the focus on the RS57 I have to use a white sheet of printer paper against my screen to make out the pixel grid, otherwise it gets lost on my textured screen. With the 3800 the thicker pixel lines are easy to see on my textured screen. I know that 'sharpness' perception is somewhat fooled by well-defined pixel structures vs an image w/o obvious pixel grids, so that might be what is going on here. I have no real way to rule this out as I can't make either PJ's pixel visibility the same. So I can only say the 3800 'looks' sharper.
And there's the single chip DLP vs the 3 chip JVC that isn't perfectly converged. The JVC lens is certainly superior, but perhaps it just can't fully make up for the single chip advantage. And/or they are about equal in actual sharpness and it was just more 'perception' due to the more visible pixel structure on the 3800.
Also>> the 3800 image was about 20% smaller than the RS57 image. That also might of made the 3800 image ‘appear’ sharper.
AND!...the RS57 was lens shifted all the way to one side, so that might have had some effect on sharpness too.

>>>Focus uniformity> Big win for the RS57 here. Not going by this side-by-side test here, but going by focusing both PJ’s across the whole screen, the RS57 has pretty good pixel grid focus across most of the screen. In comparison the 3800 was pretty darn crappy here. I could say focus the pixels in the center sharp, but the pixels outside of the center area were defocused, and vice versa if I focused the pixels at the corners (like where the drop down menu pops up), the center area pixels will not be in focus. I think the best I could do was maybe have about 40% of the 3800’s pixels in focus at once.

>>>POP> Gonna have to give a slight edge to the 3800 here as well. As well dialed in as I have my RS57, and as much 'Pop' I thought it had (perhaps surpassing my 3800 which I hadn’t viewed in 2 months), seeing them side by side showed the 3800 was a little bit clearer and had a little bit more Pop than the RS57. No adjustments on gamma/brightness/contrast could make the RS57 compete here. But these were small differences that I could only notice in a side by side viewing.

>>>Contrast, bright scenes> It appears the 3800 has the slight edge. As mentioned above, the 3800 had a little more Pop to it. Perhaps this is the 3800's superior ansi contrast in play here, it's about double the ansi contrast of JVC PJ's. There's been a lot of debate on the merits of ansi contrast values vs native contrast, but it just seems the 3800 has a slight edge here by eye.

>>>>Shadow Detail> I did not see much difference here between these 2 PJ's. Of course one could bump up the brightness (or gamma) on either PJ to get more shadow detail, but at the expense of black level and/or increasing overall image haze. But with each PJ adjusted individually using calibration discs for brightness/contrast/gamma, then some final tweaks by eye over the course of months/years (for the 3800 at least), it seem both had similar shadow details....with the edge going to the JVC for the shadows being just 'blacker' w/o black crush. I was expecting to perhaps get more shadow detail with the RS57 along with blacker blacks, but it seems the shadow detail is about the same, just not has hazy and gray.
The 3800 was known to have good or great(?) shadow detail back in the day and it seemed to have played that card here as well.

Overall there wasn't much difference here between these PJ's on bright content. I'd give a slight edge to the 3800 overall. Quite an achievement for a 7 year old tech PJ costing about $1200 new, vs the RS57 from 4 years ago @ $8k!

Next disc was Prometheus Blu Ray.
Ok, here's where the RS57 shines! Or lack of the 'shine', lol. I'm just gonna focus on dark scene content here.

>>Contrast/blacks/shadows> The one thing I noticed right off the bat between these PJ's is the no-image black screen side by side. The 3800 is a bloody torch in comparison! The RS57 was just black as black can be---in comparison. A big win here for the RS57, no contest at all. Do remember I'm running -12 on manual iris and auto 2 on the dynamic, so it really clamps down in a no image black screen. In comparison it appeared the RS57 wasn't even 'on'. Surprisingly this stark difference wasn't as obvious in space shots with the spaceship. Yes you could notice the 'space' was blacker with the RS57, but not as drastic as a no image black frame shows. My guess is that on this Blu ray, the black space was just not authored/shot to be at the darkest level. Perhaps it would look too weird and/or less real if they did that. Hence the differences here are not as drastic.
But the cave shot at the beginning of the movie, where Rapace first breaks through the rock, it stars off totally black until she breaks through and light comes through that hole. RS57 is just black here while the 3800 is of course brighter on the blacks....hazy black/grays in comparison.
Later in the flick, the inner tunnels shots, again the RS57 just provides a more solid black/contrasty image in comparison to the 3800, no real surprise there. But again, I was still surprised the actual shadow 'detail' was about the same between them.

>>>Dark scene Pop> Edge to the RS57 for its superior native contrast/blacks. But it has to be a fairly dark scene. A mixed dark scene scenario seems to bring the RS57 more into line with the 3800, though in a side by side you can still see the RS57 has better blacks.

Overall with dark to very dark scenes the win obviously goes to the RS57, with a bigger margin towards the RS57 the darker the scene gets.

That being said, the Mits 3800 is one mighty PJ for its age and original cost. Mind you, I dialed in my 3800 pretty good so that it popped good in bright scenes and did well in darks too. I'm super happy with my RS57 and the reasonings for upgrading to it were confirmed: Better contrast/blacks in darker scenes. I was hoping to not lose too much bright scene pop/sharpness vs the 3800 and essentially I did not. But there also didn't ‘appear’ to be any gains in that regard.

I waited 7 years to upgrade and I'm glad I did. The 3800 is still a damn good PJ, especially for it's used value (sold mine to a friend). Viewing 'my' 3800 side-by-side to the RS57 only confirmed that. The $2k I paid for my RS57 (which came with an extra new OEM lamp thrown in) minus the $$ from selling my 3800 made the upgrade a no brainer for me. The RS57 is a perfect fit for my smaller screen---the newer JVC's have way more firepower for way bigger screens. I think I would have taken a black level hit with the brighter JVC's on my small screen hence the RS57/X700 (or X500/RS49/RS4910) were a better fit for ‘me’.

So overall a very happy camper! And my friend is getting a damn good 3800!
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post #2214 of 2216 Old 06-24-2017, 03:58 PM
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Interesting posts fleaman. I agree there are some bright scenes that the DLP's will POP more on, there is no doubt about it, but it wasn't as overwhelming as it used to be comparing DLP to LCD (which could look super flat at times). In real-world viewing, the difference is sometimes hard to tell in DLP vs. LCOS, easier if you pause the image.

The problem with visually evaluating ANSI contrast is tiny differences in gamma calibration cause the illusion of better ANSI. The Mits has really high ANSI based on what I saw, we know we cannot trust ANSI contrast measurements, but the Mits was often measured by many as one of the highest ANSI they ever measured on any budget DLP.

I agree the Mits lenses didn't always have great focus uniformity, they seemed to have improved the lens on the hc7900 and hc8000. The problem I had with the 3D line of the last Mits DLP projectors made (too bad too huh), was the RBE effect. Much like the hc4000, the hc7900 had unusually strong RBE for a 4x color wheel. There was a 6x mode, but it affected the colors pretty bad.

If you recall, the hc3800 was one of the first DLP's I ever owned for HT (it was the second, first was hd1000). Well, the RBE on all three of these projectors was so significant that I thought I must be too sensitive for a 4x color wheel as far as DLP tech goes. However, it turned out the Mits is really bad at producing RBE compared to most other 4x color wheels (compared to say a Viewsonic or a Benq).

Suprisingly, when I had the hc7900, the lens was greatly improved on focus uniformity over both the hc3800 and hc4000, and even beat the JVC's focus uniformity. The hc7900 was sharper than the Benq w7000, it was the sharpest of all the budget DLP's I've ever seen. It was in Runco LS-5 territory, it was abnormally sharp for a .65" DLP.

That said, the older Mits - being the hc4000 and my JVC were pretty close sharpness wise from seating distance, the Mits was a little sharper from a pixel grid standpoint, but in real-world viewing HTPC text was pretty close, but it's partly based on convergence luck. The hc7900 was in another league sharpness wise, well above the JVC, the hc4000, and the Benq w7000.

I would have kept the hc7900 or hc8000 as a sidekick to my JVC (had the Mits RBE been less intense), but it was just too much for me. The image quality blew away the Benq though.

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Last edited by coderguy; 06-24-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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post #2215 of 2216 Old 06-24-2017, 04:13 PM
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Interesting posts fleaman. I agree there are some bright scenes that the DLP's will POP more on, there is no doubt about it, but it wasn't as overwhelming as it used to be comparing DLP to LCD (which could look super flat at times). In real-world viewing, the difference is sometimes hard to tell in DLP vs. LCOS, easier if you pause the image.
Yeah, the bright scene pop differences could only be noticed (by myself) when I did the side by side comparison. It was slight, but noticeable under that test.

Overall very happy, and happy I waited until now to upgrade to a used RS57.

My gist of the JVC vs DLP pros/cons from back in the day were the native contrast advantage of the JVC's (which is a huge advantage for PQ), but there was quite a hit taken on just about everything else---ansi contrast, sharpness, bright scene pop, motion, brightness (early models) and 3D (don't care about that though). This assuming one didn't suffer from RBE.

With the newer JVC's all of those negatives have greatly improved to the point the differences are minor for most of those points. Though the ansi contrast 'measurements' haven't improved that much, the current 'visible' differences with a good ansi contrast DLP in my case were minor (assuming the bright scene pop differences were due to ansi contrast differences).
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post #2216 of 2216 Old 07-17-2017, 12:36 PM
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Anybody able to use an HDFury Integral to get 4K signal from their Shield TV to RS57/X700R? If so, what color space were you able to achieve? I have a 2017 Shield TV and I had major handshaking issues when i first powered it up (it wanted to connect at 4k2k 60 by default which the RS57 did not like. I was finally able to get it to 1080p so that I could even get a picture on the PJ. Even at 1080p the Shield keeps defaulting back to 8 bit RGB (even when I select other options). Not sure if this is a Shield issue, or HDCP 2.2 / 1.4 issue. I'm using a Denon x3300W if that helps.
Last night I turned on my Shield for the first time in a while, I was able to get BT2020 out of it using an auto mix mode, I don't remember the options. I don't know if any of the Netflix i was watching was supplying the WCG or if everything was just being scaled up as the Nvidia menus were in BT2020.
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