Ultimate Sony VPL-VW500ES/VW600ES - Information Thread! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 386 Old 01-12-2014, 09:10 AM
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what are folks using for a "Brightness" setting for the dynamic iris?

In search of video bliss...
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post #362 of 386 Old 01-12-2014, 10:06 AM
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I was throwing some test patterns at my 600ES last night and was surprised at what I saw. The patterns were simple jpegs going from a Seagate drive via USB into my Oppo 103D then to the projector.

These patterns consist of red, green, and blue lines. The pattern with horizontal lines displayed well. The pattern with vertical lines looked nothing like the actual pattern; Instead of RGB it was Yellow, faint Green, Blue (iPhone photos):





I know RC was turned off; don't think Darbee was but it should make no difference. I can't imagine it was a settings issue or both patterns would be off. Looking at a simple white line convergence pattern things looked ok.

I've attached the patterns and would appreciate someone with a 600es seeing if the results are duplicated.

Thanks

VConv.jpeg 1277k .jpeg file

HConv.jpeg 1294k .jpeg file
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg VConv.jpeg (1.25 MB, 24 views)
File Type: jpeg HConv.jpeg (1.26 MB, 28 views)
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post #363 of 386 Old 01-12-2014, 07:24 PM
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Hi.....I'm a bit confused about the "upscaling" to 4k feature with the 600ES......
Am I correct in thinking that only a bluray player such as the sony 790 or Oppo actually upscales all bluray 1080p to close to 4k?
The 600ES itself does not upscale content correct?
When I watch 720p or 1080i DirecTV content or 1080p movies via my Dune player I'm still watching that same resolution via my 600ES, not upscaled to 4k correct ?
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post #364 of 386 Old 01-12-2014, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratemonkey View Post

Hi.....I'm a bit confused about the "upscaling" to 4k feature with the 600ES......
Am I correct in thinking that only a bluray player such as the sony 790 or Oppo actually upscales all bluray 1080p to close to 4k?
The 600ES itself does not upscale content correct?
When I watch 720p or 1080i DirecTV content or 1080p movies via my Dune player I'm still watching that same resolution via my 600ES, not upscaled to 4k correct ?

No the 500/600 upscales everything it receives (except for 4K content) to 4K. 4K content is just passed through.

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post #365 of 386 Old 01-12-2014, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

No the 500/600 upscales everything it receives (except for 4K content) to 4K. 4K content is just passed through.

Apparently my sony bluray player automatically upscales everything to 1080p (for instance if you play dvd).. So, that means the projector would then further upscale that upscaled 1080 to 4k?

What about if you have a chain like a receiver in there that also upscales to 4k?

A bit confusing here.. so many upscalers in the chain...
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post #366 of 386 Old 01-12-2014, 10:26 PM
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Here is a question applicable to both the 600 and 1000. If you feed either unit UHD and set the aspect to normal, I don't think the unit does any scaling but you use only the 1.78 image aspect within the 1.89 native of the panel with the sides unlit.. If you feed a 4K signal and not a UHD one, the whole panel will light.

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post #367 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

what are folks using for a "Brightness" setting for the dynamic iris?

I did a small write up of my settings impressions, including info about iris brightness, in another thread. I'll post them here too:

Motionflow
True cinema is great. Combination is really good too and smoother, but there is a loss of contrast and brightness; it is a mix of dark frame insertion and very non-aggressive interpolation, . Personally, I love the brighter image so I leave in true cinema mostly. Impulse is good too. there is no interpolation, but there is dark frame insertion that increases motion resolution. It's like combination but without the interpolation added. Smooth low and smooth high are way too aggressive IMO.

Iris Settings
For iris, I speak from experience... I owned the hw30, then the vw95, and now the vw600. I'm saying this because on the older models, I ALWAYS ran the iris in its most aggressive mode. I never noticed it. Now, though, I do notice it on full auto. It is very very obvious when the iris clamps down and opens up. Instead, I use limited and never notice it.

A couple of strange things about the iris though. The black levels aren't that great if the iris brightness is set to max. If I drop it to 90, black levels improve dramatically. I have tried dropping the brightness setting lower to get the best blacks possible, but if I set it too low (under 50), I can see the iris working again and it's painfully obvious. So I leave mine on limited and 90.

Reality Creation
As for reality creation, it is fantastic. And if you don't want to use it, you may as we'll stick with a 1080p projector. The basic upscaling without reality creation is just what it sounds like, basic. It looks like it's just making each 1080 pixel into 4 pixels. When reality creation is on, everything looks much sharper, and more "in focus". It's pretty neat to find a very sharp scene and pause it, and toggle reality creation on and off to see the difference. It's like the picture is out of focus when you see it off after it's been set to on.

I like my rc aggressive, so I have mine set to 40 for resolution and off for noise filtering. I'm sure some here would disagree with my settings though. Also keep in mind that the processing for rc is less aggressive than the older vw1000 and the first gen sony 4k tvs. There is less artifacts when using it. I also have my sharpness set low. It's at 12 I think.
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post #368 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post


Iris Settings
For iris, I speak from experience... I owned the hw30, then the vw95, and now the vw600. I'm saying this because on the older models, I ALWAYS ran the iris in its most aggressive mode. I never noticed it. Now, though, I do notice it on full auto. It is very very obvious when the iris clamps down and opens up. Instead, I use limited and never notice it.

A couple of strange things about the iris though. The black levels aren't that great if the iris brightness is set to max. If I drop it to 90, black levels improve dramatically. I have tried dropping the brightness setting lower to get the best blacks possible, but if I set it too low (under 50), I can see the iris working again and it's painfully obvious. So I leave mine on limited and 90.

Thanks for this info. I was using a max level as well but was finding the iris was acting oddly with some content and impacting black and white levels. I started tapering the brightness down to about 85-86 and its made a major difference.

I have been leaving motion off completely for movies until I get some time to really test it out. For Football I use low.

In search of video bliss...
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post #369 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 08:19 AM
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Does anyone successfully added an external USB hard drive to the Sony 4k server. I have just about used up all the hard drive by downloading movies. Not sure what happens when it gets full. I wonder if it lets you decide what to delete or if it's a first in / first out sort of method. I really would like to add another couple Tb hard drive to hold even more 4k!
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post #370 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I did a small write up of my settings impressions, including info about iris brightness, in another thread. I'll post them here too:

Motionflow
True cinema is great. Combination is really good too and smoother, but there is a loss of contrast and brightness; it is a mix of dark frame insertion and very non-aggressive interpolation, . Personally, I love the brighter image so I leave in true cinema mostly. Impulse is good too. there is no interpolation, but there is dark frame insertion that increases motion resolution. It's like combination but without the interpolation added. Smooth low and smooth high are way too aggressive IMO.

Iris Settings
For iris, I speak from experience... I owned the hw30, then the vw95, and now the vw600. I'm saying this because on the older models, I ALWAYS ran the iris in its most aggressive mode. I never noticed it. Now, though, I do notice it on full auto. It is very very obvious when the iris clamps down and opens up. Instead, I use limited and never notice it.

A couple of strange things about the iris though. The black levels aren't that great if the iris brightness is set to max. If I drop it to 90, black levels improve dramatically. I have tried dropping the brightness setting lower to get the best blacks possible, but if I set it too low (under 50), I can see the iris working again and it's painfully obvious. So I leave mine on limited and 90.

Reality Creation
As for reality creation, it is fantastic. And if you don't want to use it, you may as we'll stick with a 1080p projector. The basic upscaling without reality creation is just what it sounds like, basic. It looks like it's just making each 1080 pixel into 4 pixels. When reality creation is on, everything looks much sharper, and more "in focus". It's pretty neat to find a very sharp scene and pause it, and toggle reality creation on and off to see the difference. It's like the picture is out of focus when you see it off after it's been set to on.

I like my rc aggressive, so I have mine set to 40 for resolution and off for noise filtering. I'm sure some here would disagree with my settings though. Also keep in mind that the processing for rc is less aggressive than the older vw1000 and the first gen sony 4k tvs. There is less artifacts when using it. I also have my sharpness set low. It's at 12 I think.

Thanks for that. What about 3D settings? What are preferable glasses to use?
I recently watch movie in Real D cinema and their glasses (passive) are super light. I think they are around 1 pounds. After a few minutes, I even forgot I had them on.
I know you HP 2.4 and must be enjoying 3D to its best this projector can produce. Unfortunately my setup won't allow another screen. I'm using AT screen and therefore speakers are behind. Even using a retractable screen won't help since it will block the center speaker. Otherwise, I would considered getting 2.4 HP retractable screen for 3D and that would have been awesome.
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post #371 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I totally agree with that. I did feel that many times that it wasn't bright enough.
Doesn't 600ES come with RF transmitter. BT500A is RF. Why wouldn't it work with the projector?


Sorry, I dont have a 600 - I have a 1000 smile.gif ( but I want to use the 500A, because they are much lighter and comfortable then the PJ1´s )

And yes the RF transmitter is build in the 600 from the start - Lucky guy´s biggrin.gif

dj
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post #372 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Sorry, I dont have a 600 - I have a 1000 smile.gif ( but I want to use the 500A, because they are much lighter and comfortable then the PJ1´s )

And yes the RF transmitter is build in the 600 from the start - Lucky guy´s biggrin.gif

dj
Ok so then these glasses should work right out of the box :-)
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post #373 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Ok so then these glasses should work right out of the box :-)



yes, IFAIR you just need to pair the glasses ( push and hold the button on the glasses til it gets green/yellow and find the signal? ) to the transmitter, then you are good to go.

dj
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post #374 of 386 Old 01-13-2014, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbow View Post

These patterns consist of red, green, and blue lines. The pattern with horizontal lines displayed well. The pattern with vertical lines looked nothing like the actual pattern; Instead of RGB it was Yellow, faint Green, Blue (iPhone photos):

There could be a number of reasons - the least likely of which is a defective unit:

1) Convergence adjustment. On ealier models setting panel alignment to off would really turn it off. It was reported that the new VW500/600 already has a non-defeatable factory pre-panel alignment. Maybe you could verify that, by trying to turn panel alignment off
2) Even though the Sony accepts 4K, HDTV Test UK found that it internally does not process full 4:4:4: RGB even at 30HZ -> it seems to get converted to color subsampled 4:2:0 in all cases. This could also lead to the behavior you observed, especially since the white line pattern was ok
3) Scaling issues - internal scaling of 4K signals might effect quality somewhat. This is unconfirmed for 2D but in 3D is is severe. The VW500/600 cannot even resolve the spears and munsill 3D horizontal 2K line pattern, not even when the image is zoomed by the projector. That indicates that signal processing does something wierd even before the picture gets send to the panels (maybe some sort of crosstalk reduction pre-processing). This was also found by HDTV Test UK

Please try to verify these issues and if confirmed report them to your dealers.
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post #375 of 386 Old 01-14-2014, 09:26 AM
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Hi find here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1c45rh6u0f1c6i1/kxGMWtuMOM
my patterns (vidéo tests)

1 pixel 2k
2 pixel 2k

and 1 pixel 4K

this is my second 500es

Convergences =OK
Focus = OK


Enjoy!! eek.gif
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post #376 of 386 Old 01-14-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon-fr View Post

Hi find here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1c45rh6u0f1c6i1/kxGMWtuMOM
my patterns (vidéo tests)

1 pixel 2k
2 pixel 2k

and 1 pixel 4K

this is my second 500es

Convergences =OK
Focus = OK


Enjoy!! eek.gif

That was the same with the projector I got, but also had a focus problem. Are you planning on keeping it? I sent pictures to Sony install support so they had a record of it. Also, the internal service pattern had the same color swirling, so it was not dependent on source, nor settings (as far as I could tell).

B.
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post #377 of 386 Old 01-14-2014, 11:59 AM
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Yes certainly I keep it.

end of this month,Sony Japan send (for Europe market) a news "no issue" 500es series.....

maybe Sony make a new Firmware for fix all software's issues...

mine is rev 1.005 (500es)
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post #378 of 386 Old 01-14-2014, 05:58 PM
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Hi.....is there a way to save video settings for specific sources?....example, I like setting 600ES to reference, etc when watching anything from sony bd player and dune media player.....when watching directv I prefer changing to TV mode
Is this possible?
At minimum I was hoping when I saved multiple positions whether 1:85 or 2:35 that the memory would also save the video setting for that source
TY
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post #379 of 386 Old 01-14-2014, 09:11 PM
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You can set various settings for each mode. But there are not sub memories within a mode. I think you can set custom modes to handle this problem but you will need to select such mode when you want to use it.

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post #380 of 386 Old 01-15-2014, 08:30 PM
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Just found out about this thread. Been an owner of VW500ES since early Dec.

The firmware installed is 1.005

My unit also exhibits convergence issue on blue during startup, similar to the pic posted earlier, but after about 15mins it is only very slight I think. I have to adjust the Panel Alignment to Red Horizontal +6 and Blue Vertical +10 in order to get it aligned. Would you say this is acceptable?

Another thing I noticed was that in the Onscreen Menu there are artifacts surrounding the text. Some even flicker slightly if I look close enough. Is this normal?

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post #381 of 386 Old 01-15-2014, 11:59 PM
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I think it's a real issue when it cannot be adjusted and / or keeps being unstable after extended warmup time. Let's say you adjust thing perfectly after 30 mins / 1h warmup, but if 1h later things moved again, then there is really a problem...

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post #382 of 386 Old 01-16-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post

My unit also exhibits convergence issue on blue during startup, similar to the pic posted earlier, but after about 15mins it is only very slight I think. I have to adjust the Panel Alignment to Red Horizontal +6 and Blue Vertical +10 in order to get it aligned. Would you say this is acceptable?

Mark H has stated adjustments +- 15 are within Sony's accepted tolerances
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post #383 of 386 Old 01-16-2014, 09:38 AM
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Ok great guys I got it. I'll monitor the convergence and see if it changes over a viewing time.

What about the artifacts surrounding the letters in the On Screen Menu. Some of which flicker. Maybe I can take a pic but is this inherent in the technology?

Btw - the projector is awesome as most here have stated. I'm not much into the video calibrations or the technicalities but from an out of box experience the Projector is more than I expected!! Coming from a Pio Kuro plasma the black levels on this projector are satisfying to me!

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post #384 of 386 Old 01-18-2014, 05:04 PM
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I'm sure the JVC bulb will perform the same way as last years. To get 16ftL, you will need 750 lumens and to get 12ftL, you will need 575 lumens. I think the JVC should have no problem doing that. You might have to change the bulb every 600-1000hrs. If I was you I would save thousands and get the JVC, maybe even the X500/RS49. But if you have thousands more to spend, of course the Sony. I used a JVC with a 135in screen and didn't have a problem with it. No one is the same. We have a member who uses a 150in 1.1 gain screen with the iris at -15 on a JVC. Right now in my all velvet theater, I target 12ftL for my movies on a 126in 1.0 gain screen which is 565 lumens.

I've installed and calibrated a number of JVC's thru the years and personally own an RS-1 (the original DILA PJ model). The largest screen in any of these installs was about 138" diagonal Firehawk (1.3) gain. With lamp on "High", Iris fully open, and PJ mounted one foot back from the front of its throw ( one foot back from the closest position to the screen) I measured 15 fL (from a 1.3 gain screen). Despite what you might read, the vast majority of folks are completely satisfied with brightness down to 7 fL in a light controlled theater (in my experience). Somewhere below that level the image begins to seem subjectively dark to most. It varies from one person to the next. If I remember correctly, the measured on/off CR was about 50K:1.

Now, a brighter image would be even better, IMO, but certainly the results above are fantastic and nothing to complain about. So I agree with you that the JVC is a perfectly acceptable choice for this individual as long as it can be mounted within one or two feet of the front of its throw and his screen has some gain. If you mount this PJ near the rear of its throw, the brightness will be cut in half, and will not be practical. Remember that from the moment the bulb is turned on, it continually loses brightness. Hence the advantage of starting out with 14-15 fL, to get full life from the bulb.

My RS1 is mounted near the middle of its throw. It projects onto a 120" D Firehawk. When I installed it, it measured about 11K:1 or 12K:1 CR. The most significant subjective difference between mine and the newer JVC models is that the newer models are significantly brighter. The higher CR of the newer models is much less noticeable to me. I estimate that I have 20K-30K hours on my RS-1. I stopped keeping track years ago after my 5th bulb. The JVC's are very reliable in my experience. The only thing I have had to do in any of my installs is replace bulbs and clean filters. No repairs, yet.
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post #385 of 386 Old 01-18-2014, 05:30 PM
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k
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Only hole in that argument. If 3 or 4 years down the road, you consider upgrading projectors and the upgraded projector only cost 4/5K, then you are not going to get most if not all of the future projector paid for by selling the VW600ES. Potential buyers would also be looking at the 4/5K projector and if it was truly an upgrade over the 600, then it cuts the value of the 600 way down. Keep in mind, you would be selling a projector without a warranty. That alone scares off many buyers and drops the price considerably. A more expensive projector usually means more money lost on resale. I am not saying, not get the 600, heck I bought one. What I am saying, is don't go into it thinking you are going to save money because that will probably not be the case. smile.gif

Reminds me of two Sony Qualias that I replaced for two different customers. The Qualia was originally $30K, and had about a 1.5K:1 CR, which was state of the art. A few years later I replaced them with PJ's that had CR's of 20K:1 or 30K:1. I don't think you could have gotten $1K for the Qualia's at that time.
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post #386 of 386 Old 01-18-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

I went with Falcon Screens (132" 16:9). Mike said it is a 1.0 gain screen (realistically) and he had very good words about it quality wise (especially weave pattern for 4k images).

That is another reason I am happy the 600ES is an option....brightness. With how big my screen is PLUS going acoustic (which impacts brightness), I definitely feel the extra horsepower of the Sony is needed, especially since I am considering 3D movies again.

It has probably been two years since I checked a new top of the line JVC in 3D mode on a 120" Firehawk. It was WAY too dim to be practical, 3-4 fL with a new bulb. And they only get dimmer as the bulb ages. Count on 3D being about one forth the brightness of 2D. I concluded that in that setup, it would be better to watch Avatar in 2D, which was plenty bright enough, rather than put up with the overly dim image in 3D.
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