Should I get the Epson 5030 for $2600 or spend a little more and get something else? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all, currently I have the Epson 8350 and its been great for a first projector but I am looking to upgrade and I want it to be a dramatic upgrade. I was looking at the 5030 as my most likely candidate but I didn't know if I spent 4 or 5k on the projector if I could get something substantially better.

2D performance is most important, 3D is nice but not required
Ambient light is well controlled but the walls and ceiling are white (I cant paint them either)
Currently 120" 1.0 gain elitescreen, but the screen will be upgraded as well after.


Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 04:34 PM
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I just spent $2350 on a 5030, upgrading from a Mits HC4000, and I am sending it back. Too much screendoor from me. I sit very close for my screen size, but screendoor was a non-issue with the Mits. The Epson just had a very pixelated look to it to me. Other than that, it's a nice projector.

Based on "2D performance is most important, 3D is nice but not required", I think most would probably agree that a JVC or Sony would be better for you.
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post #3 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Any suggestions on what ones? I read a decent amount of reviews and most sites seem to like the 5030 best in its price range. what would I have to step up to, to get a noticeable improvement over the 5030?

What about something like the upcoming JVC - DLA-X500R ?
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post #4 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 05:26 PM
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in june, I chose to spend a teeny bit more (was looking at 5020) and bought a jvc x35 and I'm completely thrilled with it.

far as I could tell, the only thing the Epson does better is 3D, but the 3D on the jvc is good enough for me.

I ultimately made the decision because of the iris. I can't stand the dynamic irises, and the Epson is only able to get as black with the dynamic iris on. I've read the iris on the latest epsons is pretty good though. I had a Epson hc720 before, and its iris was loud, obtrusive, and hardly effective.

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post #5 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

in june, I chose to spend a teeny bit more (was looking at 5020) and bought a jvc x35 and I'm completely thrilled with it.

far as I could tell, the only thing the Epson does better is 3D, but the 3D on the jvc is good enough for me.

I ultimately made the decision because of the iris. I can't stand the dynamic irises, and the Epson is only able to get as black with the dynamic iris on. I've read the iris on the latest epsons is pretty good though. I had a Epson hc720 before, and its iris was loud, obtrusive, and hardly effective.

 

Here's where I'm confused.

 

The JVC X35 you recommend is 1300 ANSI Lumens and 50,000:1 Contrast Ratio.

The Epson 5030 is 2400 ANSI Lumens and 600,000:1 Contrast Ratio

 

Based on those numbers, wouldn't the Epson be far superior?

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post #6 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post

Here's where I'm confused.

The JVC X35 you recommend is 1300 ANSI Lumens and 50,000:1 Contrast Ratio.
The Epson 5030 is 2400 ANSI Lumens and 600,000:1 Contrast Ratio

Based on those numbers, wouldn't the Epson be far superior?

In some ways the numbers lie. The Epson, will doubtless be brighter than the JVC, but not twice as bright when using a pleasant looking color mode (or properly calibrated to REC 709: a fancy specification to insure you see colors as the content makers want you to). The contrast ratio thing is a sketchy number. Epson uses an iris that can automatically resize based on the overall brightness of the current scene and thus make the whole picture dimmer or lighter, but the inner scene contrast will be far, far lower than 600,000:1-read less than one tenth of that namuber. JVC has not used this technology until this year, so the X35 will probably have a higher contrast on any given scene than the Epson. JVC uses a different display technology (LCoS) which many people prefer to LCD since it has very little screen door and a nice film like quality to it.

JVC has had lamp problems in the past but these really are fixed on the x35, and for all intents and purposes, it is a nice lamp. Some people feel that motion is a bit sloppy on the JVC (i.e. things get a bit blurry in high motion scenes), but this has also supposedly gotten better in the x35.

Overall, I think the JVC will be noticeably superior to the Epson, but I think given your present setup the Sony HW55 (or HW50 if you need something cheaper) splits the difference between the JVC and Epson quite nicely. It will have a similar native contrast to the Epson, but with a better automatic Iris, so it competes better with the JVC on contrast, it should resolve motion a bit better than the JVC, and it will be brighter than the JVC as well.
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post #7 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 08:41 PM
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Also, on another note, you could get a Mitsubishi HC-5 for under 2K and put some serious money into a screen like a Stewart Firehawk or SI Black Diamond, which would combat the effects of the white walls and ceiling, which seriously degrade contrast. I own the Mitsubishi HC-5, the contrast is only slightly worse than the JVC RS-40 I had before it, it is brighter, and it resolves motion better. It is a great looking projector for an incredibly low price. The money saved could be used in other ways to make your theater better: sound system, screen, anamorphic lens, video processor, room treatments, etc…

Perhaps some else can speak up, but I think the HC-5 will throw a generally more pleasing picture in 2D than the Epson. I don't have any first-hand knowledge about it though.
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post #8 of 56 Old 12-22-2013, 09:08 PM
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If you do want to go Mitsubishi.... http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506534/mitsubishi-hc-5-projector

I know the seller and he takes extremely good care of his gear. Would be like buying a new machine.
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post #9 of 56 Old 12-23-2013, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post

Here's where I'm confused.

The JVC X35 you recommend is 1300 ANSI Lumens and 50,000:1 Contrast Ratio.
The Epson 5030 is 2400 ANSI Lumens and 600,000:1 Contrast Ratio

Based on those numbers, wouldn't the Epson be far superior?

A couple of years ago, I had a Sharp 12K mkII and a friend had an Epson (can't remember the specific model). By Epson claim, his projector must have been considerably brighter and more contrasty than my Sharp. But when we once compared them side by side, it seemed my Sharp was brighter and had a overall better image than his Epson! Since then, I have also read messages from some people talking about Epson exaggerating the specifications of their projectors. Therefore, I am currently hesitant to buy any Epson projector until, it is confirmed by experts they are truthfully announce their display devices. Considering for almost the same price as 5030/5020, one can get a lower end JVC projector, I really don't see a reason to get an Epson, should I have been in the market for a brand new projector unless, Epson decides to come up with a 4K projector before JVC, that can changes the main parameter in the equation.

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post #10 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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What are your guys thought on the new JVC DLAX500R ? That looks like the closest thing to 4k that I can afford right now lol
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post #11 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 06:14 AM
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Considering for almost the same price as 5030/5020, one can get a lower end JVC projector, I really don't see a reason to get an Epson, should I have been in the market for a brand new projector

The Epson advantages over the JVC are:
  • brighter in brightest modes
  • much better 3D (brighter, less crosstalk, better motion)
  • better motion
  • lower latency for gaming ("fast" mode)
  • longer lamp life, cheaper lamps (I think)
  • best in class support
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post #12 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 06:42 AM
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I went from an 8350 to a 5030 and the difference is substantial to me. More detail, sharper, more film like, more light output, 3D, and the blacks are greatly improved. I use mine with a Darbee and also use an LPE filter which corrects the greenish tint imposed by using dynamic mode so more useable light output. Add it all up and for me it's been a solid upgrade.
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post #13 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post

Here's where I'm confused.

The JVC X35 you recommend is 1300 ANSI Lumens and 50,000:1 Contrast Ratio.
The Epson 5030 is 2400 ANSI Lumens and 600,000:1 Contrast Ratio

Based on those numbers, wouldn't the Epson be far superior?

A couple of years ago, I had a Sharp 12K mkII and a friend had an Epson (can't remember the specific model). By Epson claim, his projector must have been considerably brighter and more contrasty than my Sharp. But when we once compared them side by side, it seemed my Sharp was brighter and had a overall better image than his Epson! Since then, I have also read messages from some people talking about Epson exaggerating the specifications of their projectors. Therefore, I am currently hesitant to buy any Epson projector until, it is confirmed by experts they are truthfully announce their display devices. Considering for almost the same price as 5030/5020, one can get a lower end JVC projector, I really don't see a reason to get an Epson, should I have been in the market for a brand new projector unless, Epson decides to come up with a 4K projector before JVC, that can changes the main parameter in the equation

You guys need to read actual reviews by trusted reviewers to see what the calibrated numbers are - like on Projector Reviews or Sound and Vision magazine. You can't go by the manufacturer's specifications - those are more or less meaningless.

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post #14 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post


You guys need to read actual reviews by trusted reviewers to see what the calibrated numbers are - like on Projector Reviews or Sound and Vision magazine. You can't go by the manufacturer's specifications - those are more or less meaningless.


I did and everything appears to be positive.  I also don't see anything about the "calibrated numbers" or anything to dispute the manufacturer claims.  So, do you have SPECIFIC's you can link us to read or no?

 

Here's the review from Projector Reviews on the 5030:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/epson-home-cinema-5030-ub-home-theater-projector-review/

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post #15 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 01:40 PM
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Within that review...

Post Calibration - Best Mode

Mike Calibrated Cinema mode. Post calibration: 644 lumens

That’s about 30 lumens less than we measured on last year’s 5020 UB. I’d say that the difference is within the margin of error, when measuring.

- See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/epson-home-cinema-5030ub-performance-1/#brightness
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post #16 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post


I did and everything appears to be positive.  I also don't see anything about the "calibrated numbers" or anything to dispute the manufacturer claims.  So, do you have SPECIFIC's you can link us to read or no?

Here is a quick executive summary from first hand experience. These are mid-throw #'s, average over 5 samples.

  • Natural mode / low lamp (closest to D65 /R709 / 2.2 gamma) - ~ 500 lumens
  • Natural mode / high lamp (needs a good amount of adjustment for greyscale - ~700 lumens
  • Living room mode / High lamp (very close to D65, slightly tweaked gamma / color gamut but still quite good) ~ 1100 lumens
  • Dynamic mode / High lamp - impossible to full cal to D65, but something that is manageable nets ~ 1500-1600 lumens


While it's not widely discussed, Epson has this strange concept of 'color brightness' which contradicts reality and will definitely confuse the average projector buyer.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Landing/color-brightness.do?iref=side-banner

http://www.colorlightoutput.com/

They claim:

Epson EH-TW9100
Color Brightness: 2400 lumens
White Brightness: 2400 lumens

I am not sure what these #'s are supposed to mean, but to anyone who knows real calibration #'s, this projector can handle ~500 / 700 lumens in it's 'best mode' (sometimes referred to cinema mode) which is optimal for viewing BD (D65 / ~ 2.2 gamma / R709 color gamut).
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post #17 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post

Here's where I'm confused.

The JVC X35 you recommend is 1300 ANSI Lumens and 50,000:1 Contrast Ratio.
The Epson 5030 is 2400 ANSI Lumens and 600,000:1 Contrast Ratio

Based on those numbers, wouldn't the Epson be far superior?

you gotta look at what they ACTUALLY do. it's like saying a cheap LED tv with 1000000:1 contrast will be way better than a vt60 with 'only' 40000:1 contrast.


anyway, after the projector are calibrated, and things are measured by reviewers, the brightness is within about 20lumens, and in fact I think the jvc was actually the brighter one. what the Epson offers is the ability to sacrifice PQ for brightness if needed.

the difference in contrast is also misleading. the Epson relies on a dynamic iris. it'll display dark scenes about as dark, but the jvc holds blacks no matter what's on screen. I personally do not like dynamic irises, I always have to turn them off, and I believe the Epson's contrast ratio drops to like 10000:1 without the dynamic iris.

I did find it very difficult to compare these two. but ever since I read the first review of the jvc rs1 I've had a chub for them. I've had Epson, and it wasn't that impressive to me(though it was a much lower quality projector), so that was part of my decision as well. I'm sure the 5020 is a great machine as well, but for me, the jvc does what I think is more important, better.

here's some personal experience. on the left is the x35(1300lumens) in "film" mode, and on the right is an Epson HC720 (1600lumens) that's been calibrated
980075_10152879804085032_802605686_o.jpg
463831_10152879803100032_859746782_o.jpg

as you can see, it's WAY brighter, and WAY blacker. I was pleased with my upgrade for sure
*I should note, the 5020/5030 will be close to the 35, not my cheap and old Epson HC720. this was just a point of how specs don't matter.

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post #18 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 05:05 PM
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*I should note, the 5020/5030 will be close to the 35, not my cheap and old Epson HC720. this was just a point of how specs don't matter.
I agree...your comparison is GROSSLY unfair. The 5000/6000 series does not look anything like your HC720.

One point that you are not mentioning, or maybe you are simply not aware of - while the JVC looks great when it is brand new, it is only good for about 200 hours (in my personal experience with the RS-1 and RS-35), and then it quickly loses brightness and will soon look worse than your HC720. My one sample of a 5010 has held about 80% of its brightness for ~700 hours so far. If it is not obvious, I am not a big fan of JVC at all - I consider it basically a "one trick pony" in that it has very good native on/off contrast, and not much else. I would not consider buying another one at this point in time...YMMV.

I just want to present an alternative POV to the OP.
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post #19 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I agree...your comparison is GROSSLY unfair. The 5000/6000 series does not look anything like your HC720.

One point that you are not mentioning, or maybe you are simply not aware of - while the JVC looks great when it is brand new, it is only good for about 200 hours (in my personal experience with the RS-1 and RS-35), and then it quickly loses brightness and will soon look worse than your HC720. My one sample of a 5010 has held about 80% of its brightness for ~700 hours so far. If it is not obvious, I am not a big fan of JVC at all - I consider it basically a "one trick pony" in that it has very good native on/off contrast, and not much else. I would not consider buying another one at this point in time...YMMV.

I just want to present an alternative POV to the OP.

I used to be of the same opinion, but within the last two years they have righted so many of their wrongs. The new lamps no longer have issues with dramatic brightness loss, in fact, many are reporting a bump in lumen output after a few hundred hours and then a steady "normal" decrease in output comparable to other projectors lamps. The new JVCs are the sharpest non-DLP projectors I've seen for under $6000 MSRP, ie a great lens. Motion performance is no longer annoying. This was my biggest complaint with their D-ILA technology. Is it on par with DLP? No, but there is no more visible smearing of the image with 24p content and is on par with what I've seen from Sony. Other benefits are motorized optics with TONS of lens shift, very quiet operation, very respectable 3D performance for a non-DLP projector with this years (2013) models, e-shift is a great feature for those with large screens or close seating distances, their FI system seems to have all kinks worked out, and they have comparable light output once calibrated. The only thing it really lacks compared to some other projectors is a relatively low ANSI contrast measurement.

Overall their low end model and entry level e-shift offer a lot of value. Build quality is very good too and not many report failing units, dust blobs, lens covers not opening, ect like you hear about with the Epson models. The 2014 models offer a dynamic iris, accept 4K inputs which will hopefully aid in the e-shift performance, and should be even brighter with higher than ever native contrast. I used to be like you and not be a fan of JVC in general, but they've really got their sh*t together as of late.

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post #20 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 10:30 PM
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I agree...your comparison is GROSSLY unfair. The 5000/6000 series does not look anything like your HC720.

One point that you are not mentioning, or maybe you are simply not aware of - while the JVC looks great when it is brand new, it is only good for about 200 hours (in my personal experience with the RS-1 and RS-35), and then it quickly loses brightness and will soon look worse than your HC720. My one sample of a 5010 has held about 80% of its brightness for ~700 hours so far. If it is not obvious, I am not a big fan of JVC at all - I consider it basically a "one trick pony" in that it has very good native on/off contrast, and not much else. I would not consider buying another one at this point in time...YMMV.

I just want to present an alternative POV to the OP.

um. I've got over 300hrs on the bulb, it's basically the same as new. maybe you should research the x35/rs46 before you lump it in with older models. I find it funny you'd call the jvc a one trick pony, because I'm not really sure/aware of any major flaws with it, and certainly not aware of any projectors in the same price range that fix them. I can assure you the jvc will never look worse than the hc720, but neither would the 5020. but to compare the x35 to an rs-1 is about as useful as comparing the hc720 to the 5020. there really has been that much improvement!

my point was that the specs written on the box don't mean much. not that the jvc is better than the Epson. my comparison showed a '1600 lumen' projector being substantially darker than a '1300 lumen' projector. that is all. and for that purpose, I don't think there could be a more fair comparison

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post #21 of 56 Old 12-24-2013, 11:54 PM
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um. I've got over 300hrs on the bulb, it's basically the same as new.
Are you going by eye or have you measured it? Since the lamp dims very little during the first ~200 hours, I would doubt that you would notice much difference at the 300 hour mark. Measure the output when the lamp is new and then measure it again at 500 hours and let me know the precise measurements.
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maybe you should research the x35/rs46 before you lump it in with older models.
I would have to own one of the newer models to do so...and based on my previous experiences with JVC projectors, that is not likely to happen soon. From what I have read (not personally experienced), JVC has fixed the early lamp failure problem, but I have continued to read about high lumens loss early in its life (under 500 hours). JVC is also known for having problems holding gamma over time, and my samples definitely suffered this problem as well. Once again, it is a change that happens over time and is not something that you can eyeball - test measurements will tell you the truth.
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I find it funny you'd call the jvc a one trick pony, because I'm not really sure/aware of any major flaws with it, and certainly not aware of any projectors in the same price range that fix them.
Ok, just for comparison's sake, I will give you my take on things, though once again I will fully admit that the new models, as Seegs has suggested may fare better than my older models. At the time, no one admitted the flaws of the older models, but now it seems as if people finally recognize the flaws:

1. Native on/off CR: Big win for JVC (its one trick, as I call it)...much better than my Epson 5010. And with the addition of a well implemented DI, JVC should be even better. But in very dark scenes, JVC suffers from the "bright corners" problem...not so with the Epson.
2. ANSI contrast: I was never able to measure ANSI CR accurately (it is a tough measurement to do right), but by direct comparison, the 5010 is significantly better than the RS35, though not as good as the better DLP models.
3. Picture "pop": a tough thing to define, but basically DLP does it best, the 5010 is second, and the JVC lags well behind. I think this is directly related to ANSI CR, but it may also have something to do with the particular technology used.
4. Motion: No contest: DLP is best, the 5010 is very good (though not quite as good as DLP), and once again, JVC lags well behind. Even if JVC has made improvements with the new models, I would be a hard sell on believing that motion has been improved enough to be competitive with the Epson, as the motion problems are inherent in the technology.
5. Color accuracy: Epson once again is a winner, though I have heard that JVC has come a long way in that regard. JVC also had (and I assume still has) an excellent CMS from which calibration could be effected. In the end, though, as long as the greyscale tracks properly and the primaries are correctable, a well executed calibration should make them equals.
6. Exacerbation of grain and noise: This has been a weak spot for JVC for some time, or at least for me. For reasons that I don't understand, JVC projectors seem to show more video noise and grain than any other projectors I have ever owned.
7.3D: BIG win for Epson. Even though I have not owned a 3D JVC projector, no one has ever claimed that their 3D was as good or better than Epson's. The best anyone has ever claimed is that it is "good enough" for their personal purposes. And Epson's 3D will be MUCH brighter.
8. Sharpness: Epson wins over the older JVC models, and the newer Epson win over the 5010 that I own. Seegs has suggested that the new JVC models are better, but I would have to do a side by side comparison before I would believe it. It is not that I don't believe Seegs - just that it would be a tough sell after my previous experiences.
9. Motorized optics: This would now be a second win for JVC, but did not exist in the models I owned. Since I own a Lumagen Mini 3D and and anamorphic lens for my 2.35:1 screen, it has zero value for me personally, but I can see where it would be very handy for those who use the zoom method to achieve constant height. If you don't have a CIH setup, you would just have to "set it and forget it", so motorized optics would mean very little once the projector is set up.
10. Audible noise: In low mode they are pretty much the same, but in high mode JVC would win. Since I have not needed to use high mode as yet, AND my projector is mounted in a place where I would not hear it anyway, it has been a non issue.If you need to use high mode, then I will concede that the JVC will be better, especially if the projector is mounted very close to your head.
11. Warranty: VERY BIG win for Epson. Epson will send you a replacement (new when the projector is young and refurbished when it is older) within 24 hours if your projector fails. JVC makes you send in your unit and WAIT for it to be repaired - no contest whatsoever.
12. Price: For comparable models, the Epson is ~$1000 cheaper than the JVC. There's a lot I can do with the extra money to improve my theater further...smile.gif
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I can assure you the jvc will never look worse than the hc720, but neither would the 5020. but to compare the x35 to an rs-1 is about as useful as comparing the hc720 to the 5020. there really has been that much improvement!
Yes, but I was also comparing the RS35, a $10,000 top of the line JVC from 3 years ago. The RS1 really was a piece of junk, but at the time, it was heresy to speak those words around here - JVC could do no wrong and people wanted to burn me at the stake for suggesting that JVC was anything less than stellar.
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my point was that the specs written on the box don't mean much. not that the jvc is better than the Epson. my comparison showed a '1600 lumen' projector being substantially darker than a '1300 lumen' projector. that is all. and for that purpose, I don't think there could be a more fair comparison
I absolutely agree with you - printed stats mean NOTHING. I was just trying to point out that you really should not be showing a split screen of an X35 and HC720 to make a point about a totally urelated projector (the 5000/6000 series). The underlying suggestion that I got was that the x35 would look great while the Epson would look like crap, and that is simply not accurate. I know that your words indicated otherwise, but a lot of times people will draw conclusions based on the photos, not the words.

I am not trying to criticize anyone for choosing a JVC. If it fulfills your needs and desires, then it is the right choice. My purpose was simply to add balance to this thread by pointing out that JVC is not necessarily the right choice for everyone. My first choice is high end DLP, but unfortunately the money is not in the cards right now, and the way technology advances, I would be hesitant to sink big dollars into something that will become old news in a relatively short time. I have no current interest in 4k - but I will be glad to embrace it when 4k Blu-ray players and media have been around for a few years. For me personally, the Epson 5030/6030 represents the best value and provides me with more of the qualities that I am interested in at the lowest price possible - based on my experience with the 5010, I plan on buying a 5030 very soon.

No manufacturer or technology is perfect. You just have to find the best combination of performance, features, and price that works FOR YOU.
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post #22 of 56 Old 12-25-2013, 12:42 AM
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I forgot to mention a couple of things:

1. Convergence and color uniformity: I group these together even though they are not always related. The RS1 was pretty terrible, but the RS35 was excellent. The 5010 was just a hair worse than the RS35, BUT the 5010 has an excellent convergence tool that allows me to dial it in perfectly, even better than the RS35. JVC's convergence tool used to be in single pixel adjustments, not on the sub pixel level like the Epson. Has JVC improved this?
2. Focus: Virtually a tie here. Both the RS35 and the 5010 have/had very good corner to corner focus, or at least on my particular samples.
3. Lag time: I am not a big screen gamer, so I don't know for sure how they compare, but from what I have read, the Epson beats the JVC, but Sony beats both of them.

Unit to unit variation will effect both company's products. In my case, my RS1 was quite poor in all regards, while my RS35 was pretty much as good as a JVC got at that time. My particular Epson is also very good, though I have heard of quite a few people getting less than spectacular units. The good news is that Epson is very accommodating in replacing a sub par unit...I don't know how quick JVC is to give you a new unit if you are not happy.

I have also owned a few Sony projectors. If I were looking for an alternative to the 5030, the HW50/55 would be the next units I would consider, but that is just because I have had better luck with Sony in the past than I have had with JVC...YMMV.
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From what I have read (not personally experienced), JVC has fixed the early lamp failure problem, but I have continued to read about high lumens loss early in its life (under 500 hours).

I haven't. On threads with the newer models (RS46 and on), I see people posting getting identical lumen output at 400+ hours as at purchase, and in some cases, bizarrely, HIGHER lumen output. I think I've read zero complaints about early dimming with the RS46 on.

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JVC is also known for having problems holding gamma over time, and my samples definitely suffered this problem as well.

Same goes for this.

I have a Mits HC4000, and my friend's RS35 beat it dramatically in terms of sharpness, contrast, blacks, and yes, even "pop". It just looked better across the board. I just upgraded from the Mits to the 5030 and was underwhelmed. The only improvements I saw were blacks and brightness, but even the blacks weren't as much better as I expected (probably due to the increased overall brightness). I've had to initiate a return because the screendoor and overall pixel-ly look of the image (at the same screen size and distance as the Mits) is unacceptable. I will stick with the Mits until I find a deal I'm happy with on a JVC.
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post #24 of 56 Old 12-25-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post



I am not trying to criticize anyone for choosing a JVC. If it fulfills your needs and desires, then it is the right choice. My purpose was simply to add balance to this thread by pointing out that JVC is not necessarily the right choice for everyone. My first choice is high end DLP, but unfortunately the money is not in the cards right now, and the way technology advances, I would be hesitant to sink big dollars into something that will become old news in a relatively short time. I have no current interest in 4k - but I will be glad to embrace it when 4k Blu-ray players and media have been around for a few years. For me personally, the Epson 5030/6030 represents the best value and provides me with more of the qualities that I am interested in at the lowest price possible - based on my experience with the 5010, I plan on buying a 5030 very soon.

No manufacturer or technology is perfect. You just have to find the best combination of performance, features, and price that works FOR YOU.

I'd love to go through your list and point out which things jvc has greatly improved on, but it's clearly not worth it, and would sidetrack this even more so. i'll just leave it with a simple statement. like other manufacturers, jvc has made substantial improvements. and you need to judge the x35 by the x35 and not it's previous models. same as you need to judge the 5020 based on the 5020, and not it's previous models.

I'm just a little surprised that after I went out of my way to say I was NOT comparing the jvc to the Epson, but just showing an example of how specs don't tell the story, I was criticized for comparing the jvc to the Epson...

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I've had to initiate a return because the screendoor and overall pixel-ly look of the image (at the same screen size and distance as the Mits) is unacceptable. I will stick with the Mits until I find a deal I'm happy with on a JVC.

Are you the person who sits abnormally close to his screen (like 1X screen width or less), or am I mixing you up with someone else? If I am correct, then you have a perfectly valid reason for choosing a projector with a higher fill value. Even if I am incorrect, if you are sitting close enough to see screen door, then I would also seek out a projector with a higher fill ratio. Have you auditioned any of the Sony units?
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I'm just a little surprised that after I went out of my way to say I was NOT comparing the jvc to the Epson, but just showing an example of how specs don't tell the story, I was criticized for comparing the jvc to the Epson...

I am sorry if I somehow ruffled your feathers...It was not my intention. Perhaps if you had pictured 2 *unrelated* comparisons, like a Panasonic versus an InFocus, it would not have appeared so misleading, but when you used examples from the two projector manufacturing companies actually being discussed, it appeared to me as if you had underlying motivations. Once again I apologize for upsetting you since that was not your intention.

Both of you guys, however, seem to be annoyed or angry with me for supporting Epson and criticizing JVC. Isn't that what this forum is all about, to discuss and debate the pros and cons and differing points of view? This is not a personal issue to me, as I have owned so many projectors of all technologies from just about all of the mainstream manufacturers, that I do not have any allegiances, even to Epson. I merely entered this thread to provide balance, in this case an opposing point of view to the JVC fans, and every reader can read all the posts here and then decide for himself what he agrees or disagrees with, what he believes or disbelieves, what he will need to see for himself, and what value the information will be to him.
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and you need to judge the x35 by the x35 and not it's previous models. same as you need to judge the 5020 based on the 5020, and not it's previous models.

Fair enough. In my comparison between the RS35 and the 5010, I had both machines setup side by side, using identical room and lighting conditions, identical sources, the same screen and size, and I even adjusted light output levels to match as closely as possible in order to compare the 2 projectors in a fair and impartial manner. Use that info for what it is worth to you. In order to say anything of meaning about the x35, I would have to buy one, use it in my theater for awhile, and then directly compare it to an Epson (or any other projector) in much the same manner, something that is not likely to happen. So I have contributed to the best of my ability by at least offering comparisons of 2 products that I am intimately familiar with. That is one of the problems we face in this forum. Other than Zombie and very few others, most people have not had the opportunity to do these level field comparisons, so we must depend on these people, or buy the projectors ourselves, to get truly meaningful information.

JVC is not the right choice for everyone.
Epson is not the right choice for everyone.
Sony is not the right choice everyone.

...and so on.

When possible, see your contenders side by side, in the same room, under the same conditions, with the same source material, etc.
If that is not possible, then read Zombie's Mini Shootout thread! tongue.gif
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Are you the person who sits abnormally close to his screen (like 1X screen width or less), or am I mixing you up with someone else? If I am correct, then you have a perfectly valid reason for choosing a projector with a higher fill value. Even if I am incorrect, if you are sitting close enough to see screen door, then I would also seek out a projector with a higher fill ratio. Have you auditioned any of the Sony units?

Yep, that's me. Although I should say that the image was still unacceptable to me even in 16:9 mode, and for that my viewing distance ratio was less extreme: about 95" away for an image about 81" wide.

Haven't been looking too hard at Sonys -- they are priced too high.
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Fair enough. In my comparison between the RS35 and the 5010, I had both machines setup side by side, using identical room and lighting conditions, identical sources, the same screen and size, and I even adjusted light output levels to match as closely as possible in order to compare the 2 projectors in a fair and impartial manner.

This is actually quite surprising to me, as a years' old RS35 impressed (and continues to impress) me much more than the brand new 5030.
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post #27 of 56 Old 12-25-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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woah, thread has been going crazy while ive been gone lol.


update though, I think I am actually going to spring for one of the new JVC RS4910's - good choice?
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post #28 of 56 Old 12-25-2013, 08:00 PM
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On a side note, for any gamers out there, JVC projectors have TERRIBLE input lag. My friend has an X35 and there is noticeable delay between button press and response/register onscreen. From what I read, this is true across the JVC family of projectors.

Epson has less input lag but still around 50 ms. That's why I went with the Panasonic 8000 (around 34 ms).
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post #29 of 56 Old 12-26-2013, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I am sorry if I somehow ruffled your feathers...It was not my intention. Perhaps if you had pictured 2 *unrelated* comparisons, like a Panasonic versus an InFocus, it would not have appeared so misleading, but when you used examples from the two projector manufacturing companies actually being discussed, it appeared to me as if you had underlying motivations. Once again I apologize for upsetting you since that was not your intention.

Both of you guys, however, seem to be annoyed or angry with me for supporting Epson and criticizing JVC. Isn't that what this forum is all about, to discuss and debate the pros and cons and differing points of view? This is not a personal issue to me, as I have owned so many projectors of all technologies from just about all of the mainstream manufacturers, that I do not have any allegiances, even to Epson. I merely entered this thread to provide balance, in this case an opposing point of view to the JVC fans, and every reader can read all the posts here and then decide for himself what he agrees or disagrees with, what he believes or disbelieves, what he will need to see for himself, and what value the information will be to him.
Fair enough. In my comparison between the RS35 and the 5010, I had both machines setup side by side, using identical room and lighting conditions, identical sources, the same screen and size, and I even adjusted light output levels to match as closely as possible in order to compare the 2 projectors in a fair and impartial manner. Use that info for what it is worth to you. In order to say anything of meaning about the x35, I would have to buy one, use it in my theater for awhile, and then directly compare it to an Epson (or any other projector) in much the same manner, something that is not likely to happen. So I have contributed to the best of my ability by at least offering comparisons of 2 products that I am intimately familiar with. That is one of the problems we face in this forum. Other than Zombie and very few others, most people have not had the opportunity to do these level field comparisons, so we must depend on these people, or buy the projectors ourselves, to get truly meaningful information.

JVC is not the right choice for everyone.
Epson is not the right choice for everyone.
Sony is not the right choice everyone.

... tongue.gif

I suppose in hindsight, I could have said '1300 lumen projector' vs '1600 lumen projector' but I was trying to keep credibility by including details. I also thought it showed how Epson's tend to have inflated ratings(like many other brands) and the jvc was actually closer to real world. it was also the only two projectors I've ever had in the same room at the same time hooked up to the same source on the same screen, haha. trust me, I would have much preferred a shot of the x35's '1300 lumens' next to the 5020's '2400 lumens' to show that they actually look basically the same.

I'm not at all offended you support Epson. the 5020 was very close to being my next projector, and from everything I've read it's a great unit not only for it's price, but for anything within about 1000bux of it too. I was however a little offended that you shot down the x35 so harshly without stating any current facts/issues of the x35, but rather some older models. the truth is, the x35 made some major leaps over even just the previous year's models. the only two areas I see where another projector in its price range could be better is input lag and motion resolution. neither is particularly terrible, but they aren't class leading. I'm absolutely thrilled with it's native on/off contrast, color reproduction, lens memory, black levels, brightness, uniformity, clarity, super quiet operation and so far bulb life(both from what I've read from other experiences, and my own at now 373h).

I would agree with your last sentiment, though I'm going to edit it slightly
JVC is a great choice for most
Epson is a great choice for most
Sony is a great choice for most

the 5020, x35, 50/55ES are all awesome projectors for the money. most ppl will love everything about them, and it's only when ppl are sensitive to one of their flaws that one would become 'unsuitable' for somebody.

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post #30 of 56 Old 12-26-2013, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post

On a side note, for any gamers out there, JVC projectors have TERRIBLE input lag. My friend has an X35 and there is noticeable delay between button press and response/register onscreen. From what I read, this is true across the JVC family of projectors.

Epson has less input lag but still around 50 ms. That's why I went with the Panasonic 8000 (around 34 ms).

terrible is strong, bad for sure.

what's funny though is that it feels pretty good compared to my Samsung f8500, haha. but that thing is like 120ms when not in game mode eek.gif not sure what it gets down to(40-60ms?) but it's so much better in game/pc mode

still, I find most games just as much fun on the two 'bad input lag' displays. I think fighting games, and Kinect/motion games are the exceptions. maybe if you're super elite at FPS, but I'm not, so those feel normal to me(and I just got rid of my crt in may when I bought the f8500)

I would say input lag is getting worse across the entire range of displays. there are some exceptions, but it's almost like the 'better' the picture, the worse the input lag will be. even with the espon, it has a game mode right? so in it's 'best picture' mode it's also got offensive amounts of input lag. really wish companies would address this and put a little more emphasis on getting low input lag while maintaining high picture quality. first step is reviewers need to all comment/test it.

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