2013 King of 3D? - AVS Forum
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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So, as of the end of 2013 (pre-CES 2014), which projector gets the King Hat* of 3D (I'm looking at you, zombie10k!)??

*King Hat

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Old 01-02-2014, 01:24 PM
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The short list (cost-no-object) would logically include 3-chip DLP projectors with at least 3000 ANSI/10,000:1 or more contrast...144Hz (triple flash) refresh rate...RF emitters (not IR)...lots of lens choices...and the ability to do 3D in conjunction with anamorphic lens systems. In the consumer category this would likely come in at $50K+. If you have a projection room with a chimney...$180K or so.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:26 PM
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As soon as 8K comes of age (a few years hence), then glasses-free 3D should come into its own.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, let's go with a price range of $3k - 10k (or 20k) to keep with the forum.

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Old 01-02-2014, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post

So, as of the end of 2013 (pre-CES 2014), which projector gets the King Hat* of 3D (I'm looking at you, zombie10k!)??

*King Hat

zombie10k present 3D sweetheart seems to be the Sharp XV-Z30000.

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Old 01-02-2014, 02:38 PM
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Under $20k, Sim2 has a couple models that get close to the description made in the second post. They have a couple single chip DLPs that have most of those characteristics.

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Old 01-02-2014, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

zombie10k present 3D sweetheart seems to be the Sharp XV-Z30000.

That is saying something, since I'm pretty sure the Z30k doesn't do 24p output (only 3:2 pulldown). The rest of the picture elements must outweigh that shortcoming.

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Old 01-02-2014, 03:40 PM
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If the $25,000 Sony VW1000ES can be discussed in this above $3,000 projector forum -- then any of the Sim2 projectors can be discussed here as well. The Sim2 M.150 probably comes closest to meeting your criteria. It is not triple flash; however, it is LED and so should retain its brightness for years making calibration simple (apparently it self-calibrates) and since it is also DLP it will be ghost-free. Supposedly it has on/off C.R. that puts all other DLPs to shame. This projector has had every reviewer who has spent time with it salivating over its 2D and 3D capabilities. The fly in the ointment is that it is limited to 1080p -- not a real problem only a perceived one, unless you're going to use a huge screen in which case the projector simply won't be bright enough anyway. This projector retails at $28,000.

BTW both the Mits HC8000 and the Sharp 30000 can handle an anamorphic lens for 3D material.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

If the $25,000 Sony VW1000ES can be discussed in this above $3,000 projector forum -- then any of the Sim2 projectors can be discussed here as well. The Sim2 M.150 probably comes closest to meeting your criteria. It is not triple flash; however, it is LED and so should retain its brightness for years making calibration simple (apparently it self-calibrates) and since it is also DLP it will be ghost-free. Supposedly it has on/off C.R. that puts all other DLPs to shame. This projector has had every reviewer who has spent time with it salivating over its 2D and 3D capabilities. The fly in the ointment is that it is limited to 1080p -- not a real problem only a perceived one, unless you're going to use a huge screen in which case the projector simply won't be bright enough anyway. This projector retails at $28,000.

BTW both the Mits HC8000 and the Sharp 30000 can handle an anamorphic lens for 3D material.

The M.150 would be an awful recommendation for 3D use. Sure it's 2D offerings are simply breathtaking, but it's not a very bright projector. Something like a Nero 3D-2 would be a far better choice simply because of the amount of lumens at your disposal.

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Old 01-02-2014, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post

That is saying something, since I'm pretty sure the Z30k doesn't do 24p output (only 3:2 pulldown). The rest of the picture elements must outweigh that shortcoming.

I read that in one of the early reviews but not sure how accurate it is. The 30k certainly isn't perfect but it checks off a lot of boxes for my 3D viewing preferences. especially at the bargain price it was selling for a few months ago. most folks who have them seem to love it for it's 3D capabilities.

This is a higher end single panel model i've wanted to check out:

http://www.runco.com/products/projectors/dlp/xtremeprojection/single-chip/XtremeProjection_X-200i_Projector
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I read that in one of the early reviews but not sure how accurate it is. The 30k certainly isn't perfect but it checks off a lot of boxes for my 3D viewing preferences. especially at the bargain price it was selling for a few months ago. most folks who have them seem to love it for it's 3D capabilities.

This is a higher end single panel model i've wanted to check out:

http://www.runco.com/products/projectors/dlp/xtremeprojection/single-chip/XtremeProjection_X-200i_Projector

Check out the on/off C.R. -- 1,300:1! The cheap Optoma projectors actually test out with a lot higher actual full on/off contrast ratios. Is this a mistake on the part of PC? It must be a mistake since this projector has a street price of $15,000! It weighs 61 lbs. and has a lamp life of only 1500 hours. If these specs are accurate then this makes the Sharp look like quite a bargain. Maybe the third pair of 3D glasses included in the cost narrows the price difference. biggrin.gif

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Runco-XtremeProjection_X-200i.htm

Maybe this take on the projector is a little more accurate -- I would hope so.

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/runco_promises_awesome_images_with_xtremeprojection_projector_series/cedia
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:56 PM
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There is very little info on that projector, not a single owners comments to be found anywhere.

I thought it would be interesting since it should be reasonably bright and has a .95 DLP panel and Runco's usually have good color. Plus it used the MV3D transmitter so no forced DLP Link.

1 sold on ebay in Nov for $8,000. If it was 1/2 that amount I might have been tempted to check it out.

I'm glad to hear you like the Sharp in your setup, there's really only 2 DLP choices in this price range for those looking to maximize the HP gain. The 30K and the BQ W7000/7500. Since the latter uses DLP link, the sharp is an automatic winner just for using IR. I think the contrast in 3D looks pretty good for a DLP.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:54 PM
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I checked out the Runco as well and like you, found basically nothing. I suspect Runco did not send this projector out for review, which begs the question as to why not? One of their earlier cheaper 2D projectors got good to great reviews. It is really a shame that pretty much all of the mid-range DLP manufacturers have dropped out of the game entirely or are concentrating on the lower end of the market. The new Optoma LED DLP 3D projector looks interesting; however, it doesn't appear that it will satisfy the more demanding performance characteristics such as: descent on/off C.R.; ANSI C.R.; and have enough brightness for good 3D (even on a descent sized HP screen) that many on this forum will require.
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I read that in one of the early reviews but not sure how accurate it is. The 30k certainly isn't perfect but it checks off a lot of boxes for my 3D viewing preferences. especially at the bargain price it was selling for a few months ago. most folks who have them seem to love it for it's 3D capabilities.

24p support is relatively easy to check for. Here is a link to some test patterns which will reveal 3:2 judder pretty easily. Includes both 2d and 3d files.

http://st7.us/MotionBarsH264.7z
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:53 AM
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Any chance we can get a w7500 test or review? :)

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Old 01-04-2014, 09:39 AM
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One big issue I see for the $7,500 to $15,000 2D/3D DLP projectors offered by Sim and Runco are the new Sony 4K machines, which also support 3D. The Sony 500/600 in particular must be causing these manufacturers fits since the majority of customers are concerned mostly with 2D and purchasing something in this price range that isn't attempting to address a future proof solution (4K) is problematic. I suspect that neither Sim nor Runco discount their projectors to the same degree that the 500/600 is being discounted, which will further erode their customer base.

What projector is King of 3D? Is it about sales or the absolute best 3D image?

The good news is that the cheap 3D DLPs are selling well and the 3D of which they are capable (relatively bright and totally ghost-free) often blows away the 3D produced by much more expensive LCoS and LCD units -- thus the 2 projector setup.
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

The good news is that the cheap 3D DLPs are selling well and the 3D of which they are capable (relatively bright and totally ghost-free) often blows away the 3D produced by much more expensive LCoS and LCD units -- thus the 2 projector setup.

So, of these, then, which is king? Does the Sharp Z30k take the king hat?

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Old 01-05-2014, 12:57 PM
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The Panasonic RZ-470 is now selling for around $3,600. Kraine gave it a 9/10 in his review and scored it 29/30 for 3D. He scored the inexpensive Optoma HD25 (now replaced by the brighter HD25e) 29.5/30 for 3D, so who knows? Here are the reviews:

http://www.google.com/translate?langpair=fr%7Cen&u=http://www.audiovideohd.fr/tests/362-Panasonic-PT-RZ470-0.html

and,

http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiovideohd.fr%2Ftests%2F354-Optoma-HD25-0.html
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Old 01-05-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The M.150 would be an awful recommendation for 3D use. Sure it's 2D offerings are simply breathtaking, but it's not a very bright projector. Something like a Nero 3D-2 would be a far better choice simply because of the amount of lumens at your disposal.

Have you read the reviews of the M.150 as they pertain to 3D?

Steve Withers in his review for AVForums had this to say:

"Thanks to the accuracy of the overall image and the absence of any other distractions, the 3D had a wonderful sense of dimensionality that was genuinely immersive. With the exception of SIM2's own Lumis 3D-S, this is the best projected 3D we have seen and the result was a genuinely visceral and exciting experience that used the added dimensionality to draw you into the image."

Mate the M.150 with a 100" to 120" HP screen for 3D and I don't think brightness will be an issue. Do the same with a lamp based pj and after a 1000 hours or so it will be struggling, maybe sooner.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Have you read the reviews of the M.150 as they pertain to 3D?

Steve Withers in his review for AVForums had this to say:

"Thanks to the accuracy of the overall image and the absence of any other distractions, the 3D had a wonderful sense of dimensionality that was genuinely immersive. With the exception of SIM2's own Lumis 3D-S, this is the best projected 3D we have seen and the result was a genuinely visceral and exciting experience that used the added dimensionality to draw you into the image."

Mate the M.150 with a 100" to 120" HP screen for 3D and I don't think brightness will be an issue. Do the same with a lamp based pj and after a 1000 hours or so it will be struggling, maybe sooner.

My issue with giving it as a recommendation has nothing to do with how well it handles 3D. I'm saying it's an awful recommendation because there are bunch of other DLP projectors that are far brighter and offer similar lens quality, on/off performance, ANSI performance, and 3D performance. There are a couple from Sim2 and a couple from Runco that I can think of off the top of my head. Brightness and screen size really matters when trying to get a pleasing 3D image and I just don't think M.150 is bright enough for most applications. The HP screen will help though.

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Old 02-08-2014, 11:13 AM
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My issue with giving it as a recommendation has nothing to do with how well it handles 3D. I'm saying it's an awful recommendation because there are bunch of other DLP projectors that are far brighter and offer similar lens quality, on/off performance, ANSI performance, and 3D performance. There are a couple from Sim2 and a couple from Runco that I can think of off the top of my head. Brightness and screen size really matters when trying to get a pleasing 3D image and I just don't think M.150 is bright enough for most applications. The HP screen will help though.

I've owned an M150 for over a year and it handles 3D with great aplomb on my 100" 1.3 gain screen. Were I to need a larger image, I might go to something like Vutec's ISF-certified 2.2 material.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:31 AM
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Ever 3d projector can benefit from a higher gain screen
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

As soon as 8K comes of age (a few years hence), then glasses-free 3D should come into its own.
For front projection? I understand that flat panels could do this, but I'm not sure how front projection would provide different images to places a few inches apart without glasses even if they had 8K. Maybe I'm missing something about techniques they have though. If They could do it, would it require a special screen?

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Old 02-08-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by weblogic View Post

Any chance we can get a w7500 test or review? smile.gif
I want to support this question. BenQ W7500 has the potential to outperform Sharp XV-Z30000 since now it has IR (W7000 was DLP Link only with red flash, which reduced contrast), will be brighter than Sharp and has newer DC3 panel which has decent native contrast (judging by cheaper BenQs released in 2013). Also, colors will be superior (Sharp's weak point).
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:33 PM
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Just wondering were you seen w7500 supports ir 3d glasses
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:36 PM
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This is on the BenQ page for the W7500:
Quote:
The W7500 is the projector accredited with the TUV Rheinland 3D Full HD Certification. Designed to offer the best 3D cinema experience at home, the projector is powered by DLP Link™ to delivers ultra-smooth 1080p Full HD images to both eyes – crosstalk free.

On BenQ's website, here is a picture of the back of the W7500:

http://www.benq.com/images/download/projector/W7500/01.jpg

Looks like no IR output. Only DLP Link.

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Old 02-08-2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

On BenQ's website, here is a picture of the back of the W7500:

http://www.benq.com/images/download/projector/W7500/01.jpg

Looks like no IR output. Only DLP Link.
Hmmm, I wonder where I got that impressions from myself confused.gif But I went on believing this for quite some time. My mistake then!
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I've owned an M150 for over a year and it handles 3D with great aplomb on my 100" 1.3 gain screen. Were I to need a larger image, I might go to something like Vutec's ISF-certified 2.2 material.

Good luck getting that ISF Vutec 2.2 they are not even providing a sample as they have big issues with production and QC as I understand. I'v been trying to get a piece of that material since last October with no luck.

How big will your screen be anyway, I'm surprised no one has asked? There are plenty of good projectors for great 3D if you are not trying to light up something too big.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:49 PM
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How big will your screen be anyway, I'm surprised no one has asked? There are plenty of good projectors for great 3D if you are not trying to light up something too big.

What are those good projectors? I am looking for a good 2D/3D projector in the $5000 or less. I am currently using a 123 inch (diagonal) BlackHawk Stewart Film Screen. I would prefer not to buy a new screen unless I have to.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:17 PM
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What are those good projectors? I am looking for a good 2D/3D projector in the $5000 or less. I am currently using a 123 inch (diagonal) BlackHawk Stewart Film Screen. I would prefer not to buy a new screen unless I have to.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/top-3d-projectors.htm

Have a look at this link and a couple of other low cost options suggested in earlier posts as well like the Sharp XV-Z30000 . All depends on your screen size, theater design ( light control), content being viewed, gaming etc. Lots out there just need
to narrow down the requirements.
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