JVC DLA-X500, DLA-X700, DLA-X900, RS49,RS57,RS67 HDMI Problems - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 614 Old 02-10-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JamMcD View Post

Just had to reboot mine again. I was hoping by having the projector turn on first that would take care of it.

Hello. I've had 4 days of consistent power on luck by powering on my projector 15 seconds BEFORE anything else, then I power on the Directv receiver or Xbox, then 5 seconds later I power on my AVR and 5 seconds after that, my Oppo 103D. I also turned off Eco mode and HDMI control. I agree that JVC should release another firmware release to address this, fix the E-shift/Focus issue, some HDMI handshaking anomalies and finally, if they could improve the HDMI switching performance. My wish list...

All and all... still an amazing picture!
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post #362 of 614 Old 02-10-2014, 07:46 PM
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I can report no issues tonight powering up my jvc, after yesterday's first time issue.

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post #363 of 614 Old 02-11-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JamMcD View Post

Just had to reboot mine again. I was hoping by having the projector turn on first that would take care of it.

May not help in your case, but I've found that with my X700 I have to turn it on and boot all the way up till it displays stuff on the screen before turning on my preamp (a CX-A5000) and my blu-ray player (a BDP-103D). If I don't, the screen is well messed up (nothing legible) and I have to power everything off and start over.

I have reprogrammed my Pronto TSU9600 to stop once it has powered on the projector and wait for me to resume the power on sequence by pressing a button. frown.gif
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post #364 of 614 Old 02-11-2014, 05:09 PM
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AVForums' review of the JVC 500 for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.9922

It got a 10/10 for both 2D and 3D. Apparently no ghosting at all in 3D. If so, then this sets a new standard for non-DLP projectors for 3D performance. My question is simply this: Is there absolutely no ghosting in 3D with the JVC 500? When I say ghosting I am particularly interested in "background" ghosting which occurs when the image from one channel bleeds through to the other channel leaving a slight haze over the background of an image. Ghosting on main objects in an image is relatively easy to spot; however, identifying background ghosting is a little trickier.
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post #365 of 614 Old 02-11-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

AVForums' review of the JVC 500 for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.9922

It got a 10/10 for both 2D and 3D. Apparently no ghosting at all in 3D. If so, then this sets a new standard for non-DLP projectors for 3D performance. My question is simply this: Is there absolutely no ghosting in 3D with the JVC 500? When I say ghosting I am particularly interested in "background" ghosting which occurs when the image from one channel bleeds through to the other channel leaving a slight haze over the background of an image. Ghosting on main objects in an image is relatively easy to spot; however, identifying background ghosting is a little trickier.

Greetings,

I haven't seen any ghosting, background or otherwise, so far with my 4910u. I have checked out several titles that have exhibited it with my prior two JVC 3D machines and both look solid. There is an appreciable difference going from the RSx5 to this years model.

I can't speak for every title or the sensitivity levels of every viewer but this is what I have seen so far.


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post #366 of 614 Old 02-11-2014, 05:55 PM
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May not help in your case, but I've found that with my X700 I have to turn it on and boot all the way up till it displays stuff on the screen before turning on my preamp (a CX-A5000) and my blu-ray player (a BDP-103D). If I don't, the screen is well messed up (nothing legible) and I have to power everything off and start over.

Interesting. I turned on my Denon 4520 and Dish Hopper, or Oppo 103 - prior to turning on the RS4910 or RS57. Sort of a habit since my Lumis is happier coming on with a signal already there. No problem with either JVC projector that way.
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I also turned off Eco mode and HDMI control.

I believe those were both set to off in my set up too.

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post #367 of 614 Old 02-12-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FraggleRock View Post

After installation of the firmware update I haven't had any more problems (until today) other than a single time where the unit wouldn't power on and the red led was lit. Unplugging the projector for a minute and plugging it in allowed the projector to turn on normally. Unfortunately today my projector locked up hard immediately after being turned on. No picture displayed and none of the buttons on the remote or the projector itself would respond, including the power button. My only option was to pull the plug with the unit running. frown.gif I let it sit there there and cool for a few hours (overkill) as my understanding is that it is better to let it cool down to room temp rather than plug it back in and restart despite the cooling fan coming back on--can anyone please confirm whether this is the case?

BTW, yesterday I turned on the HDMI control on the projector to see if it would work with some of my other equipment also sporting HDMI control (Pioneer SC-68, Dish Hopper, and PS3 Slim 160GB). That could potentially have contributed to the problem although I don't recall it being a problem with my previous X55. Regardless, I disabled the HDMI control again and submitted a support request on JVC's website again. I never heard back form them on the previous web support request and phone call regarding firmware issues the week after purchase--hopefully they will respond this time around.

This happened again last night... Unit wouldn't come out of standby, pulled the plug, plugged it back in, powered on, waited for JVC logo to appear, turned on receiver, switched hdmi input, turned on satellite, and waited for picture to display... and waited... and waited some more. The projector was locked up, wouldn't respond to button presses, no picture displayed (including menus), etc. Had to pull the plug... again. The unit wasn't hot so I only waited a few minutes before plugging it back in--should I have waited longer? Primarily worried about the bulb dimming from having to pull the plug while running. When I first got the unit I was so concerned about getting a UPS for it so it would never lose power while running. Having to pull the plug makes that concern less relevant at the moment... Regardless, I sent another email to JVC (since the last reply 8 days ago).
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post #368 of 614 Old 02-12-2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

AVForums' review of the JVC 500 for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.9922

Apparently no ghosting at all in 3D.


Not true. Not saying they are lying, but they are not the most discriminating viewers when it comes to ghosting in particular. They had similar praise for the JVC RS45 in that review from 2 years ago (the new models are certainly an improvement over those don't get me wrong) and we all know the reality there. My 45 and 40 before it were ghosting nightmares that only got worse as the bulb aged, but NONE of this was mentioned it their review (obviously they could not mention bulb age in the 40 review, but they certainly could have mentioned this by the time the 45 review came around).

As far as the new models go, many have already reported seeing ghosting to some degree in the various posts which I am sure you have read. Ghosting has been improved from the x5 models 2 years ago, but is virtually identical to last years machines which I can tell you are certainly not ghost free after seeing the X75. Improved ghosting, yes, but "ghost free" absolutely not. You would be disappointed coming from your DLP. I think it was forum member JOE-C who has a comparison thread here mentioned the ghosting performance on the 4910 he saw was somewhere between his 45 and a Epson 6030. Sounds to me as far as non DLPs go that Epson is still the ghosting champ and considering you were not ultimately happy with it for visible crosstalk, the JVC would be at least as bad if not worse.

That review also said the new DI was basically worthless which is contrary to all the reports we have seen here from Kris, Zombie, etc....... AVForum reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt going off what I have seen as their attention to detail is simply lacking vs what you get with one of the regular discriminating AVS type viewers.

The most noteworthy thing about the JVCs and 3d this year is the addition of CMD which is a very welcomed feature. After living with my Benq for 3d and it's CMD, this is a feature I would not want to go without in any future 3d projector and it is great that JVC finally got this going.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #369 of 614 Old 02-12-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FraggleRock View Post

This happened again last night... Unit wouldn't come out of standby, pulled the plug, plugged it back in, powered on, waited for JVC logo to appear, turned on receiver, switched hdmi input, turned on satellite, and waited for picture to display... and waited... and waited some more. The projector was locked up, wouldn't respond to button presses, no picture displayed (including menus), etc. Had to pull the plug... again. The unit wasn't hot so I only waited a few minutes before plugging it back in--should I have waited longer? Primarily worried about the bulb dimming from having to pull the plug while running. When I first got the unit I was so concerned about getting a UPS for it so it would never lose power while running. Having to pull the plug makes that concern less relevant at the moment... Regardless, I sent another email to JVC (since the last reply 8 days ago).
This has happened to me. Sometimes when I unplug the projector when it is stuck in stand by it will power on but there is no display. So I have to power down another time, and then it works. I've also locked up the display when just changing Gamma settings. The projector is unreliable plain and simple, but the picture is amazing
That being said, I did not have the power on problems until I began using two inputs on the PJ....hdm1 for the onkyo and hdmi2 direct to the oppo. I'm now running everything to hdmi1 thru the onkyo and I have had two days without rebooting. Maybe switching between two inputs is the problem? I will see how long this setup works.
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post #370 of 614 Old 02-12-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PJ2014 View Post
 

V-streching distortion in 3D

 

I love the 2D picture of my RS 4910 and the 3D picture in 1.85:1 is ok. I can tolerate the flickering and if there is not too much movement in the picture which leads to a bit of blurring. 

 

However, switching from a regular 3D 1.85 picture with black bars on top and bottom to v-stretching in 3D of the same picture on my 2.35:1 Stewart 1.5 gain screen leads to instant artifacts. It appears with or without using my Schneider M anamorphic lens, so it's not the lens. It's hard to describe what i'm seeing but any movement becomes artificial. For instance Bobby the dog in Tintin 3D when running seems to float over the surface, cars glide unnaturally as if disconnected from the road, and any movement by people show motion jumps/smears, water flowing or camera pans look off. I have to sit an additional row back and still have a hard time getting my eyes to focus on the fast moving objects or people. I also noticed considerable more eye strain while watching in this mode as if my eyes are trying to make sense of something unnatural on the screen. I'm left with a slight headache something I never have with 1.85 3D on my projector or in theaters. 

 

All this is NOT noticeable in 1.85 3D without the v-stretching. By the way I have CMD, and Clear Black off, so it's not the "soap opera" etc. artifacts that arise from using these adjustments. Using CMD does not help in the v-stretch mode while it does in 1.85 aspect ratio although I hate the effect and leave it off. V-streching in 2D with lens is completely normal. 

 

Is it possible the algorithms used for 3D v-streching for each eye are inaccurate, creating a distortion in the adjusted 3D stretched picture. Currently I have to use zoom to fill my 2:35:1 screen rather than using the v-strech with lens to get a "normal" looking 3D picture without black bars.

 

Does anyone have the same issue or knows what is going on here? Is there a way to resolve this? Does this issue exist on the previous round of projectors too? Thanks for you help.

 

 

RESPONSE FROM JVC

 

I just heard back from JVC with the message that they were able to reproduce the problem with the 3D v-stretching and that they are looking at it right now. They will let me know what the resolution is going to be. Hopefully something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

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post #371 of 614 Old 02-12-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PJ2014 View Post

 

RESPONSE FROM JVC

I just heard back from JVC with the message that they were able to reproduce the problem with the 3D v-stretching and that they are looking at it right now. They will let me know what the resolution is going to be. Hopefully something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

PJ2014... this is exactly the setup I will be using (just ordered my 4910)... suggest you move this topic to the main X500/4910 thread...very interested in following this

and very dissappointing....
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post #372 of 614 Old 02-12-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FraggleRock View Post

This happened again last night... Unit wouldn't come out of standby, pulled the plug, plugged it back in, powered on, waited for JVC logo to appear, turned on receiver, switched hdmi input, turned on satellite, and waited for picture to display... and waited... and waited some more. The projector was locked up, wouldn't respond to button presses, no picture displayed (including menus), etc. Had to pull the plug... again. The unit wasn't hot so I only waited a few minutes before plugging it back in--should I have waited longer? Primarily worried about the bulb dimming from having to pull the plug while running. When I first got the unit I was so concerned about getting a UPS for it so it would never lose power while running. Having to pull the plug makes that concern less relevant at the moment... Regardless, I sent another email to JVC (since the last reply 8 days ago).

I just received an email response AND a phone response from someone named Mikel at JVC, which was much appreciated. Thank you JVC. Here's a snippet of his response:

"First we would like to apologize for the delay of our response.

I understand that it is difficult for you to bypass the receiver and not have your sound system. However we need for you to try connecting the sources (i.e. Wii, DVD player, cable box, etc.) straight to the unit to see if you can duplicate the problem. We are trying to determine if the locking-up issue is being caused by our projector or the receiver. Also please try using a shorter HDMI cable (not more than 10 ft.). Once you have 2 sources connected straight to the unit, try powering it on and switch the HDMI inputs on our projector and let us know if you will get the same result.

Another thing you can check with your receiver if it scales the video to 4K. If it does, please set your receiver's HDMI Out/Monitor Out to AUTO or Through (Pass Through). Also try turning off the HDMI CEC functions on the receiver and your sources."


In my email to JVC, I referenced this thread so hopefully they are viewing it as well for additional context. Regardless, he gave me specific tasks to try tonight, like running each of my sources directly to the projector and bypassing the receiver, etc to see if a problem creeps up. Given the seemingly random frequency with which the lockups occur (once a week), I'm not sure we'll be able to deduce much. Regardless, I told him I'd give it a shot and report back. He also confirmed that all support emails and phone conversations are being documenting and going directly to the engineers, so that is good to hear. Hopefully they can determine the problem soon. I will report back on our findings...
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post #373 of 614 Old 02-16-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FraggleRock View Post

I just received an email response AND a phone response from someone named Mikel at JVC, which was much appreciated. Thank you JVC. Here's a snippet of his response:

"First we would like to apologize for the delay of our response.

I understand that it is difficult for you to bypass the receiver and not have your sound system. However we need for you to try connecting the sources (i.e. Wii, DVD player, cable box, etc.) straight to the unit to see if you can duplicate the problem. We are trying to determine if the locking-up issue is being caused by our projector or the receiver. Also please try using a shorter HDMI cable (not more than 10 ft.). Once you have 2 sources connected straight to the unit, try powering it on and switch the HDMI inputs on our projector and let us know if you will get the same result.

Another thing you can check with your receiver if it scales the video to 4K. If it does, please set your receiver's HDMI Out/Monitor Out to AUTO or Through (Pass Through). Also try turning off the HDMI CEC functions on the receiver and your sources."


In my email to JVC, I referenced this thread so hopefully they are viewing it as well for additional context. Regardless, he gave me specific tasks to try tonight, like running each of my sources directly to the projector and bypassing the receiver, etc to see if a problem creeps up. Given the seemingly random frequency with which the lockups occur (once a week), I'm not sure we'll be able to deduce much. Regardless, I told him I'd give it a shot and report back. He also confirmed that all support emails and phone conversations are being documenting and going directly to the engineers, so that is good to hear. Hopefully they can determine the problem soon. I will report back on our findings...

This is good to hear. It occurred to me earlier this week that I did not have the stand by problem until I ran my Oppo 93 directly to the Projector while everything else went through the receiver....so the problem crept up when the PJ was having to swtich between HDIM1 and 2. I went back to running everything through my receiving into the hdmi1 on the PJ. Since I made this change I have had 5 consecutive days of no lock ups. This leaves me to believe my problem is one of three issues now.
1. The second HDMI cable I was using is causing problem. I kind of doubt this since others are having issues.
2. The projector does not handle switching between HDMI 1 and 2 reliably.
3. The projector does not like the direct connection to the Oppo.

I'm going to test my current setup with the other HDMI cable to rule out number 1. Are other people having this problem using both HDMI inputs? Does anyone with this problem run an oppo directly to the PJ or another brand?
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post #374 of 614 Old 02-18-2014, 12:03 PM
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This is good to hear. It occurred to me earlier this week that I did not have the stand by problem until I ran my Oppo 93 directly to the Projector while everything else went through the receiver....so the problem crept up when the PJ was having to swtich between HDIM1 and 2. I went back to running everything through my receiving into the hdmi1 on the PJ. Since I made this change I have had 5 consecutive days of no lock ups. This leaves me to believe my problem is one of three issues now.
1. The second HDMI cable I was using is causing problem. I kind of doubt this since others are having issues.
2. The projector does not handle switching between HDMI 1 and 2 reliably.
3. The projector does not like the direct connection to the Oppo.

I'm going to test my current setup with the other HDMI cable to rule out number 1. Are other people having this problem using both HDMI inputs? Does anyone with this problem run an oppo directly to the PJ or another brand?

I've had a couple more exchanges with Mikel at JVC. Initial test doing direct connect of my sources to the projector all worked with the exception of one test, which was inconclusive. When doing the direct connect, I switched them out one at a time on HDMI-1 rather than plugging one into HDMI-1 and one into HDMI-2 and then switching projector inputs like JamMcD mentioned as a theory in his testing, so I am going to repeat the test. In addition, here is their latest suggestions:

Our engineers are requesting for you to try the following:

1. Use a different HDMI cable. Preferably High Speed and not longer than 30 ft (as part of troubleshooting).

2. This Pioneer SC68 seems to have 4K pass through, but does not have 4K scaling. But, Pioneer does have a firmware update for this model that is supposed to improve the stability of HDMI. We would recommend for you to contact Pioneer and make sure it has the latest firmware (Ver 1-198-084-512-125)

3. The Pioneer does also have a very wide range of video processing functions. Where ever possible, I believe it will be best if these are turned off. While these are likely not causing the lock-up, they could be adversely affecting the picture. A couple of key points: RES: We would recommend for you to set this to PURE. That seems to be the setting that would be closest to a pass through. V.ADJ: This may or may not be available. If it is, we would not use any of the presets. Instead, we would set it on “Memory” and then set every one of the individual adjustments to zero.

4. Try setting your JVC projector to Auto Color mode. We would recommend for you to have your device/source run in its native format/ standard output (Auto) method and not to have the receiver converting things. Again, any processing you can turn off on the receiver is good at this point. Once the system is running reliably you can start to turn things back on and experiment as much as you want.

I replied that I didn't think it was the cable as it works fine for days at a time and I used the same cable with my X55 for eight months, so it seems unlikely. I did request a recommendation though on an alternate 20' cable that they would recommend for troubleshooting. My receiver already has the latest firmware and has for 6 months or more. I did turn off the Pioneer SC-68's Advanced Qdeo Video Processing (including video conversion options from RGB to YUV for the PS3) and in conjunction set the projector to auto mode for the color space now that video conversion in the receiver is disabled. Again, these options were working fine on X55 without issue, so I'm quite doubtful it's an issue with related equipment. Unfortunately, nothing here seems very promising at this point. If others of you out there are still having problems please contact JVC directly and feel free to PM me so I can help pass along other experiences for the JVC engineers looking into the issue.

A little off-topic, but perhaps related to my unit: One thing I have noticed is recently is that I'm seeing no little-to-no change when e-shift 3 is engaging--even when I move the sliders A LOT and press the before/after button. On the X55, it was readily apparent with the defaults and switching through the modes. At first I just thought it was more just more subtle, but I'm really struggling to see any change at all now. Maybe if I put up the resolution pattern again... I'll have to try that tonight.
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post #375 of 614 Old 02-19-2014, 08:10 PM
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Anyone know a store where i could see a demo of a rs 49/4910 in the new york city area?
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post #376 of 614 Old 02-21-2014, 04:23 AM
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Updating my JVC now. Other than having to buy a PC to talk to the damn projector, and cables, and downloading firmware and ancillary drivers for the cables, and drivers for the drivers...everything is great. The JVC instructions are good, only problem was my USB was not connected to COM1 like in the slides (why can't it auto-detect COM ports). And it takes well over 10 minutes. Firmware update was "successful", cept that now my picture was fwacked (garbled image), had to move the HDMI 1 to 2, which isn't ideal. Functionality of switching between sources is much improved, as is HDMI handshake time (probably because its not re-locking every time I change the input to the receiver, the receiver is relocking with the source be staying locked to the projector). Will report back if problems occur.
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post #377 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 11:06 AM
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Well my JVC x500 us getting shutdowns today. The 2 outside light are solid red and the middle is flashing orange. I have had no isssues since I updated until today.I updated within a week of the updates realese. Guess I will be sending it back. This time it locks without having to switch sources.

James Reid:D
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post #378 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 11:24 AM
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I would reseat the lamp first just to be sure before sending it in.
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post #379 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 11:40 AM
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I would reseat the lamp first just to be sure before sending it in.[/quote



Ok, I will do that. How do I reset the lamp?

James Reid:D
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post #380 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
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I would reseat the lamp first just to be sure before sending it in.[/quote



Ok, I will do that. How do I reset the lamp?





I reset it. Will see how it goes.

James Reid:D
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post #381 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 11:48 AM
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just pull it out and push it back in, tighten the screw, etc. it's worth a shot.
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post #382 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

just pull it out and push it back in, tighten the screw, etc. it's worth a shot.




Tried that no luck. Dam such a stunner as far as picture but ...... Will get a hold ofJVC tommorow, my PC died today as well.lol Atleast Canada mens won gold in hockey.

James Reid:D
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post #383 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 03:32 PM
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Bummer cardoski. Does anybody know if JVC repairs your unit, or do they exchange and send you a different one when something like this happens?
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post #384 of 614 Old 02-23-2014, 04:45 PM
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Thanks StevenC56.

A little update on my issue, it actually is going into a sort of sleep mode. I can get it to come back on by pressing the rear power button. But it turns off with in 5 mins. Also it seems noticeable dimmer while it is on. I was mistaken on the flashing lights. The middle and left lights are flashing and the right one is solid red. Sorta like the ring of death on the 360.lol. I am sure it is some error code.

James Reid:D
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post #385 of 614 Old 02-24-2014, 09:55 AM
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You're aware that there is a sleep mode, right?

Noah
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post #386 of 614 Old 02-24-2014, 11:12 AM
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You're aware that there is a sleep mode, right?



Yes I checked that it is off. It will not run for even a minute now.

James Reid:D
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post #387 of 614 Old 02-25-2014, 10:09 PM
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RESPONSE FROM JVC

I just heard back from JVC with the message that they were able to reproduce the problem with the 3D v-stretching and that they are looking at it right now. They will let me know what the resolution is going to be. Hopefully something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

Just encountered this tonight. I alter my scope viewing between using the zoom method and employing my anamorphic lens. Tonight, watching a bit of Gravity 3D for the first time I engaged my A-lens and the V-stretch of the JVC. I almost puked. The image started waving, with the motion of the floating characters looking distorted almost like I was viewing them through undulating water.

It's bad enough in my case, but for others who use an A-lens/V-stretch exclusively in a CIH system for scope, this situation would be intolerable. JVC better fix this.
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post #388 of 614 Old 02-28-2014, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post


Just encountered this tonight. I alter my scope viewing between using the zoom method and employing my anamorphic lens. Tonight, watching a bit of Gravity 3D for the first time I engaged my A-lens and the V-stretch of the JVC. I almost puked. The image started waving, with the motion of the floating characters looking distorted almost like I was viewing them through undulating water.

It's bad enough in my case, but for others who use an A-lens/V-stretch exclusively in a CIH system for scope, this situation would be intolerable. JVC better fix this.

Mike from AVS just let me know that he heard back from jVC today that the v-strecth issue will be resolved in a March firmware update. 

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post #389 of 614 Old 02-28-2014, 08:59 AM
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Well finally was able to talk with JVC, shipping PJ today for repair. I was given a pickup code so Purolator will pick it up for me.biggrin.gif

James Reid:D
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post #390 of 614 Old 03-02-2014, 03:56 PM
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I received my 6710 last week and am thrilled with the picture. Definitely a step up from my Sony 95 ES both in terms of contrast and sharpness. I am having a annoying connectivity issue though.

I cannot get DirecTV to pass through my 25 foot high-speed Monoprice cable. A short cable works fine. I never had any problem with the long cable and my Sony. Here's the cable I have:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024001&p_id=3657&seq=1&format=2&utm_expid=58369800-11.R-enhtUGRrSdHz5vzpVS2g.0

It's supposedly rated for 4K and 3-D, so you would think it would have no trouble with DirecTV.

I guess I need to run another 25 foot cable. But I have no idea what is likely to give me a better result. Recommendations appreciated. (Btw, I do have the latest JVC firmware)

Thanks!
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