First Projector: Epson 6030UB or pony up for JVC DLA X500 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 02-04-2014, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Finishing the basement, wife agreed to put in a home theatre set up ( more like media room ). Far from a black hole, will be light controlled but light walls ceilings, etc ( no chance in hell it will be dark/Wife :( ). This will be my first projector set up. Looking at a 100" screen (Elunevision Reference 4k) will be sitting at least 10Ft from screen. My back wall will be 15ft from the screen, ceiling height 7 or 7.5 ft. Will most likely be a projector I will use for a very long time, meaning no upgraditis.

 

I am lucky that the wife even agreed to this as originally we only discussed finishing the basement, no home theater. So would Epson 6030UB be a good choice? Would it even be worth it to spend the extra and get the JVC DLA X500? Mostly 2D movie watching, do have alot of 3D movies lately but mostly watch 2D. My theatre set up in the family room currently has Panasonic 65ST50. I know the Sony 50/55es  is well reviewed also but I believe the 3D is IR and I already have lots of glasses RF Glasses which will work with the Epson and JVC. The Epson I can get for less than the Sony. The JVC will be the MAX I would be able to stretch my dollar but only if there would be a noticable improvement in picture.

 

Any thoughts, recommendations? I know that the Epson 5030UB retails for less but the price I can get the 6030 for makes it a no brainer. 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Ron.

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post #2 of 26 Old 02-04-2014, 03:19 PM
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JVC. Had the Sony HW50, then the Epson 6030. The JVC is a big step up and a TREMENDOUS value.
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post #3 of 26 Old 02-05-2014, 03:24 AM
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Yeah i would normally agree, but. i dont know how much improvement if any he would get with light walls/ceilings and also only 100" screen, guessing 16:9 so no need for auto zoom either from the jvc?
Do you guys get better warranty as well with the epson's? and a second free lamp?
However, since your wifey will let you spend the extra $$$ for the jvc, then might as well(or if epson you could spend that extra cash on extra goodies hehe )

I would view both and make up your mind.
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post #4 of 26 Old 02-05-2014, 05:41 AM
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I have similar concerns about selecting a projector. Instead of starting a new thread, I just wanted to add to this, with the hope that someone knowledgeable would help us out. I have done research on the two types of projectors and it seems like the quality is JVC DLA is of superior quality, compared to the Epson (based on all that I have read). However, they are saying that the JVC has to be used in "dark room", for the difference to be seen. The question I have is..."how dark" does a room have to be? Because my theater is in my basement, it naturally does not have the same type of ambient light like a normal living room. However, it has a window and a sliding door (though each has blinds), and some light from the door way leading to the basement, so that means there are some lights. Also, I do watch television or play games mostly at night on weekdays (usually with lights off), but on weekends I watch during the day and all of the ambient light from all of the above sources are present. Moreover, on a day like the Superbowl sunday or when I am entertaining guests, the lights are kept on (though dim). 

 

Is there a way to measure the level of darkness required for using the JVC? Also, I intend to use a Black Diamond zero edge screen in my basement...will that be sufficient for using the JVC over the Epson? I have never liked LCD displays because I always felt like they were too bright and unnatural. So I currently use a plasma in my basement (the pictures are amazing) and an LED upstairs. Since there are no LED or Plasma projectors I know of, I was thinking about the LCoS.  Someone please help us out. 

 

Today is my first time on this forum and I didnt' realize that I could post pictures, or i would have posted pictures of my basement for different scenarios (day, night, blinds open, blinds closed, etc.). Will try to do next time I come on. 

 

Thanks

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post #5 of 26 Old 02-05-2014, 07:03 AM
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why not the jvc x35?

you'd get the same benefits of of the D-ILA tech(just minus the e-shift) and it'd actually be cheaper than the epson 6030(at least it is in canada). i got mine for 3k with a spare bulb and 3D kit from the same company that sells though elunevision screens. i know they'll knock a little more off and throw in a free mount if you buy a screen at the same time.

if you do go jvc(or any other projector with lens memory) i would also recommend you consider a 2.35:1 format screen so you can go constant image height.

personally, i use a 100" 16:9 screen for 16:9 content(and it looks sufficiently large to me) but if i watch scope movies on that screen i find i'm wanting more. it just looks like a big screen tv then.

for scope movies, i use my old 120" screen(still 16:9 format, but i only pull it down partway) and i get roughly the same height picture and it looks fantastic again.

if you have the width, i'd recommend at least considering it anyway

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post #6 of 26 Old 02-05-2014, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trochac View Post

Far from a black hole, will be light controlled but light walls ceilings, etc ( no chance in hell it will be dark/Wife frown.gif )

See if you can convince here to darken at least a few forward of the screen, whichever is the nearest surface to it is the most important.

I'm sure there are more aesthetic ways than just dark paint.

Re needing a dark room, this is most true in mixed brightness screens; in dim scenes the JVC's lower black level will be apparent.

Noah
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post #7 of 26 Old 02-05-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

See if you can convince here to darken at least a few forward of the screen, whichever is the nearest surface to it is the most important.

I'm sure there are more aesthetic ways than just dark paint.

Re needing a dark room, this is most true in mixed brightness screens; in dim scenes the JVC's lower black level will be apparent.

i would agree, i had white ceiling and light tan walls when i first got my jvc(although the projector it replaced was no where near as good as the 6030) and the difference in black levels was amazing. who would have thought a simple fade to black could make you giggle? haha. the jvc also has a nice feature that actually easily allows you to adjust the projectors black level to match the room. for whatever it's worth, when i first got the projector the default setting(in the middle) was about right for my brighter room, now that i've painted, i have it all the way to the darkest setting.

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post #8 of 26 Old 02-06-2014, 06:15 PM
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JVC for the projector but if possible go CinemaScope screen at around 120" and definitely paint everything dark or black around the screen including the ceiling. My wife was all about keeping the colors light as well but once all was done, the lights came down and the screen lit up it finally became obvious to her that the light colored walls adjoining the screen needed to be painted dark. She even admitted how much better the picture looked after I painted the side return walls and ceiling soffit area black. I have a 112" screen and my front row is 10' 6" away and I have no problem. I thought it would be too big at the design stage of things but went with the size anyway and now that it's done I wish I had gone to the 120" screen, it wouldn't have been a viewing issue. Dark colored floor to ceiling curtain panels are also an option if you can't make the dark paint work.

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post #9 of 26 Old 02-06-2014, 06:32 PM
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If you can't over-ride the wife at all on darkening the whole room, then go for lumens versus pure image quality/contrast. I think in that case a HW55ES or 6030 would be a better fit since they have a bit more lumens to spare. In short, just like audio...the room can make a superior piece of gear not perform at its peak.

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post #10 of 26 Old 02-07-2014, 07:08 AM
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If you can't over-ride the wife at all on darkening the whole room, then go for lumens versus pure image quality/contrast. I think in that case a HW55ES or 6030 would be a better fit since they have a bit more lumens to spare. In short, just like audio...the room can make a superior piece of gear not perform at its peak.

generally i'd agree, that seems to be the standard logic.

but i noticed something peculiar in my own room(before i painted it). when i got the jvc i had the iris wide open, and LOVED it. then i started reading about why i should try closing down the iris, and at first the image looked pretty dim to me, didn't like it. but i force myself to try it, and after my eyes had time to adjust, it was clearly superior, and here's why...

with the iris closed down, and a signficantly dimmer image, way less light spilled off the screen, and onto my white ceiling and light tan walls.

now that i've painted my room, i'm almost finding the opposite to be true. with the black ceiling and walls, i think my pupils are dilating even more, and what i'm noticing now is the fades to black, and other really dark scenes don't appear as 'black' as they use to. when i open up the iris and get a brighter picture, it 'shocks' my pupils enough to keep them from completely dilating, and the 'blacks' look off black again during fades.

in short, it would appear that FOR ME, there is a 'butter zone' of brightness in the room needed to keep my pupils dilated just enough to make the projectors black level actually look black. if i go darker, then the blacks become visable as a dark grey. if i go brighter, then the room starts to light up and spill light back onto the screen actually making the black levels rise.

so, i'm thinking is some situation at least with some ppl, conventional wisdom isn't always a sure thing. with white ceilings and white walls, having a dimmer projector with better black levels that won't light up the walls/ceiling could have its benefits. maybe a dimmar projector with a HP screen would be a better solution?

i don't know, i've always thought you bought the screen to match the room(grey/HC screen for ambient light, etc) and the projector for your desired content(brighter/faster for 3d, low lag for gaming, great blacks/contrast/colors for movies, etc). of course there's some crossover, i just think the room has a bigger effect on the screen, and that's why you need the right screen for the room

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post #11 of 26 Old 02-07-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trochac View Post

Finishing the basement, wife agreed to put in a home theatre set up ( more like media room ). Far from a black hole, will be light controlled but light walls ceilings, etc ( no chance in hell it will be dark/Wife frown.gif ). This will be my first projector set up. Looking at a 100" screen (Elunevision Reference 4k) will be sitting at least 10Ft from screen. My back wall will be 15ft from the screen, ceiling height 7 or 7.5 ft. Will most likely be a projector I will use for a very long time, meaning no upgraditis.

I am lucky that the wife even agreed to this as originally we only discussed finishing the basement, no home theater. So would Epson 6030UB be a good choice? Would it even be worth it to spend the extra and get the JVC DLA X500? Mostly 2D movie watching, do have alot of 3D movies lately but mostly watch 2D. My theatre set up in the family room currently has Panasonic 65ST50. I know the Sony 50/55es  is well reviewed also but I believe the 3D is IR and I already have lots of glasses RF Glasses which will work with the Epson and JVC. The Epson I can get for less than the Sony. The JVC will be the MAX I would be able to stretch my dollar but only if there would be a noticable improvement in picture.

Any thoughts, recommendations? I know that the Epson 5030UB retails for less but the price I can get the 6030 for makes it a no brainer. 

Thanks in advance.

Ron.

I would go with a B-stock JVC RS4810 or a B-stock Sony HW50ES.

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post #12 of 26 Old 02-07-2014, 09:18 AM
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If you have a home theater store near, take your wife. We went to one and we compromised on a dark purple (raisin) that looks quite dark and really accents the wood trim. Sometimes imagining what it would look like is not the same as actually seeing it. As far as projector, I am a JVC fan so I am too biased to give an opinion.
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 07:04 AM
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Can someone address the main question please? How bright does a room have to be for it to affect the quality of JVC...that's the question. It's agreed the the epson is sufficiently bright. But for folks who want the contrast of JVC...is there a level of brightness (ambient light) that's acceptable...or is a totally dark (black hole) required for it to be worthwhile?
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post #14 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queryfox View Post

Can someone address the main question please? How bright does a room have to be for it to affect the quality of JVC...that's the question. It's agreed the the epson is sufficiently bright. But for folks who want the contrast of JVC...is there a level of brightness (ambient light) that's acceptable...or is a totally dark (black hole) required for it to be worthwhile?

it's not nearly that simple, that's why nobody has given a simple answer.

if this is a real concern of yours, you're better off describing your room in detail, and hoping somebody else has one that's similar who can comment.

i will say, read my first post. because i used the jvc in a brighter room, and now have it in a darker room as well.

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 12:14 PM
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But for folks who want the contrast of JVC...is there a level of brightness (ambient light) that's acceptable...or is a totally dark (black hole) required for it to be worthwhile?

For all of the contrast you need a black hole; it's a sliding scale from there.

You also need to distinguish what you mean by black, i.e. ambient light vs. color of surfaces.

The former will always hurt contrast, the latter only mixed-brightness scenes; a room with light colored surfaces still gives you full on/off CR, but only with a pitch black image.

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post #16 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 02:31 PM
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Very few people have a true black hole. The JVC works very well with a little bit of ambient light if the throw, screen size and screen gain is set up to do so. I have a JVC is a family room setup (VW600ES replaced it in the dedicated room) and I am shooting onto a 106" diagonal High Power screen. In low lamp with the iris closed down to -13, it is LED TV bright. Still can't let sunlight into the room, because the blacks can never be darker that what the screen shows in the room to begin with. If you provided pics of what your room actually looks like (may need to play with exposure to get an image that appears as what you actually see) then people might be better able to answer the question.

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post #17 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 03:32 PM
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Thanks for the responses of you and Noah. I really appreciate the insight you guys are providing on this comment. I will take pictures of my space tomorrow during the day to show you. That way you can see what I am talking about and make any recommendations you can make. 

 

Like I said, I understand that with all projection technology a totally dark room is "heaven". However, it's just hard when people give great reviews of the products using expressions like..."bright room", "some ambient light", etc. My question has always been..."how bright are we talking?". My space is in my basement so naturally its not as bright as the main living room upstairs. But with a window and a sliding door, light does come in. This is my first attempt to use a projector so I dont have a good frame of reference...thats why I am asking all these "dumb" questions. 

 

Few things I know is that, I am not a big fan of LCD TVs...they seem too bright. So in as much as I love the review of the Epson LCD projectors, I am afraid that when the lights are turned off they may become too bright for viewing (I could be very wrong); thats what I notice with my LED TV upstairs. I never used to watch TV upstairs...always used the plasma in my basement (and it was perfect). Recently I started watching the TV upstairs, and I couldn't believe how bright it became, when the lights were off. I had to turn on the lights for my eyes to bear the brightness. As a result, I started gravitating to the JVC because the reviews seem to suggest that the LCOS might be the "Plasma TV" equivalent in projectors.  

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I would go with a B-stock JVC RS4810 or a B-stock Sony HW50ES.

Mike,

are you guys selling B-stock HW50s right now?

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post #19 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for your response. As I mentioned in my response "AV Science" comment below, I will provide a couple of photos of my basement during the day so that you can see the level of light I am dealing with. Thanks again. 

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post #20 of 26 Old 02-27-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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My space is in my basement so naturally its not as bright as the main living room upstairs. But with a window and a sliding door, light does come in.
...

Few things I know is that, I am not a big fan of LCD TVs...they seem too bright.

Presumably in the basement you don't have restrictions in controlling light from them...

Another point in favor of JVC is the manual iris which allowing you to lower output in addition to using the low lamp setting.

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post #21 of 26 Old 02-28-2014, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queryfox View Post

Can someone address the main question please? How bright does a room have to be for it to affect the quality of JVC...that's the question. It's agreed the the epson is sufficiently bright. But for folks who want the contrast of JVC...is there a level of brightness (ambient light) that's acceptable...or is a totally dark (black hole) required for it to be worthwhile?

It isn't just ambient light. One of the largest influences after ambient light is light reflections from walls and ceilings (i.e. light reflecting from the screen). White walls will effectively kill blacks and contrast so consider your wall and ceiling color as well.
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post #22 of 26 Old 02-28-2014, 06:24 AM
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The challenge with "how much ambient light is okay" is that a lot of it depends on where the light is coming from. In my limited experience (just got my projector last week) any direct ambient light on the screen is a problem. Other light in the room is okay. I am just beginning my renovation in my basement but I found that taking out the row of florescent lights closest to the screen and blocking the windows from that allowed direct lighting is enough to give me a "good picture" - good enough for watching sports and having a few friends over. When it comes time to sit down and watch and really experience a movie you are going to want it as dark as you can while still maintaining an appropriate WAF.

Also, for what it is worth, I had similar questions when selecting my projector. I ended up in a major analysis paralysis situation. I ended up going with an Epson 5030 and I couldn't be happier. Prior to throwing m yfirst 3D picture on the wall, I didn't think I cared about 3D either. I only used that feature on my 55" tv a couple of times. Now I want to see all 3D content. I find the experience on my Epson to be better than the theater.
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post #23 of 26 Old 02-28-2014, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Queryfox View Post

Thanks for the responses of you and Noah. I really appreciate the insight you guys are providing on this comment. I will take pictures of my space tomorrow during the day to show you. That way you can see what I am talking about and make any recommendations you can make. 

Like I said, I understand that with all projection technology a totally dark room is "heaven". However, it's just hard when people give great reviews of the products using expressions like..."bright room", "some ambient light", etc. My question has always been..."how bright are we talking?". My space is in my basement so naturally its not as bright as the main living room upstairs. But with a window and a sliding door, light does come in. This is my first attempt to use a projector so I dont have a good frame of reference...thats why I am asking all these "dumb" questions. 

Few things I know is that, I am not a big fan of LCD TVs...they seem too bright. So in as much as I love the review of the Epson LCD projectors, I am afraid that when the lights are turned off they may become too bright for viewing (I could be very wrong); thats what I notice with my LED TV upstairs. I never used to watch TV upstairs...always used the plasma in my basement (and it was perfect). Recently I started watching the TV upstairs, and I couldn't believe how bright it became, when the lights were off. I had to turn on the lights for my eyes to bear the brightness. As a result, I started gravitating to the JVC because the reviews seem to suggest that the LCOS might be the "Plasma TV" equivalent in projectors.  

the other thing to worry about is light direction. it's definitely possible to have a bright seating area without having a bright screen area. on the other hand, depending on your lighting positions and flood, it can be nearly impossible.

another personal experience. i have 3 potlights over my seating area, about 18 feet away from the screen. they are able to give me plenty of brightness over the seats(easily enough to read by) without affecting the screen brightness that much(a bit, but doesn't wash it out). recently i replaced my 50w halogen with some LED lights(they are gu10's if it matters) and for whatever reason, now those lights make a HUGE impact on the screen. i'm guessing because they are a whiter color temp(around 5500K-6000K i believe). anyway, there's other variables and ways you can control lighting. it should definitely be possible, if you're careful, to have comfortable lighting over/around the seating area without drastically reducing the performance on screen. or a single dim light aimed incorrectly can completely ruin the picture without even really making the room brighter...

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post #24 of 26 Old 02-28-2014, 07:52 AM
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Mike,

are you guys selling B-stock HW50s right now?

Yes, but only a few left.

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post #25 of 26 Old 02-28-2014, 08:01 AM
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Thanks for the responses of you and Noah. I really appreciate the insight you guys are providing on this comment. I will take pictures of my space tomorrow during the day to show you. That way you can see what I am talking about and make any recommendations you can make. 

Like I said, I understand that with all projection technology a totally dark room is "heaven". However, it's just hard when people give great reviews of the products using expressions like..."bright room", "some ambient light", etc. My question has always been..."how bright are we talking?". My space is in my basement so naturally its not as bright as the main living room upstairs. But with a window and a sliding door, light does come in. This is my first attempt to use a projector so I dont have a good frame of reference...thats why I am asking all these "dumb" questions. 

Few things I know is that, I am not a big fan of LCD TVs...they seem too bright. So in as much as I love the review of the Epson LCD projectors, I am afraid that when the lights are turned off they may become too bright for viewing (I could be very wrong); thats what I notice with my LED TV upstairs. I never used to watch TV upstairs...always used the plasma in my basement (and it was perfect). Recently I started watching the TV upstairs, and I couldn't believe how bright it became, when the lights were off. I had to turn on the lights for my eyes to bear the brightness. As a result, I started gravitating to the JVC because the reviews seem to suggest that the LCOS might be the "Plasma TV" equivalent in projectors.  

In a basement setting, if you cover the window and sliding door with a drape or blinds, you will have an environment that will do well for HT. The more light you block out the better. Ambient light from the screen can be controlled fairly well by use of dark paint.

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post #26 of 26 Old 02-28-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Yes, but only a few left.

I'll have to give you a call later. thanks

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