Isn't Black just the absence of light? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 02-12-2014, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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How can one technology produce better Blacks than another unless the 'inferior' technology is shining light on the screen when it's not supposed to?

 

Seems to me this is a software bug not a technology limitation?

 

As a side I saw the Sony HW55 today and it was very impressive!  Even with lights on dim half way it was very punchy on a Draper 106 motorized screen.

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post #2 of 13 Old 02-12-2014, 01:14 PM
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No, it's the absorption of all color... smile.gif
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post #3 of 13 Old 02-12-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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A white screen doesn't absorb any light.

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post #4 of 13 Old 02-12-2014, 01:39 PM
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it was suppose to be a joke. smile.gif

Real Answer:

With some technologies they are able to allow less light through the lens and and do a better job not reflecting the light onto the screen when projecting "black".


So you are correct, they are better at not projecting light when in regards to "black"

Most companies have a dynamic Iris that closes down to help project less light into the screen to improve "black"


It is true you will never get true "black" with traditional bulbs, but our eyes are easily tricked into seeing black when much brighter objects are a illuminated around the so called "black"
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post #5 of 13 Old 02-12-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemants View Post

How can one technology produce better Blacks than another unless the 'inferior' technology is shining light on the screen when it's not supposed to?

Yes, that's exactly the problem, and it's a hardware issue.

Achieving contrast ratio of 20,000:1 requires blocking all except 0.005% of the light; easier said than done.

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post #6 of 13 Old 02-13-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemants View Post

How can one technology produce better Blacks than another unless the 'inferior' technology is shining light on the screen when it's not supposed to?

That's exactly what's happening. All projection technology is flawed. There is a light source that is always shining, and the imaging device (LCD, LCoS, DLP chip) must block light any time anything other than white is to be shown. None of the technologies are perfect, and all allow some light through, even when everything is "off" to "produce" black. JVCs LCoS (DiLA) imaging devices and light engine are better than anyone else at blocking light that isn't meant to hit the screen so they produce the best blacks.

The only projection machines that can actually do black, are the LED DLPs, these can be configured to actually turn off the LEDs for a black screen, thus no light is output, thus black is perfect, however this only works for full black frames and has side effects since the LEDs must be on if there is even on pixel that is not absolutely black, most people who have tried it have said it's not worth the tradeoffs.
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See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #7 of 13 Old 02-13-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemants View Post

How can one technology produce better Blacks than another unless the 'inferior' technology is shining light on the screen when it's not supposed to?

Seems to me this is a software bug not a technology limitation?

As a side I saw the Sony HW55 today and it was very impressive!  Even with lights on dim half way it was very punchy on a Draper 106 motorized screen.

basically yes and yes.

since none of these technologies have to ability to turn pixels on and off independently, there is light (very bright light mind you) shining on every pixel. the fact that they are able to block as much of that light as they do is really pretty incredible. try putting something in front of a car's headlight that can block all the light on just a small part. it's very tough

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post #8 of 13 Old 02-17-2014, 03:17 PM
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Only CRT can produce "true" black.
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post #9 of 13 Old 02-17-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by neonsky View Post

Only CRT can produce "true" black.

And LED based projectors in the right DI mode. The CRTs need to have a specific gamma curve to achieve "true" black as well.
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post #10 of 13 Old 02-17-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonsky View Post

Only CRT can produce "true" black.

Only when there is no information in the picture, when there is light introduced the CRT has so low ansi/intrascenecontrast it is along way from true black.

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post #11 of 13 Old 02-17-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

And LED based projectors in the right DI mode. The CRTs need to have a specific gamma curve to achieve "true" black as well.

I'd love to see like a FALD equivalent for LED projectors. not sure if that's possible though

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post #12 of 13 Old 02-17-2014, 04:21 PM
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post #13 of 13 Old 02-18-2014, 03:19 PM
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full array local dimming.

it'd be cool if they were able to use enough led's that they could actually dim them individually to improve black levels on just the dark areas in the scene. I'm not sure it'd really feasible in a projector though, I think the FALD led TV's have hundreds of zones, and I don't even know if you could fit hundreds of led's inside a projector, let alone aim them precise enough to get the desired affect, haha.

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