JVC E-Shift 3 with 4K devices - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Wanted to hear feedback on how E-Shift 3 handles certain 4k devices like the Oppo 103D/105D, Radiance 2041/2042, 4K HTPC, etc.
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post #2 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 06:48 AM
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I'm using the Radiance 2014 with my RS57.

They have proven to be compatible. I can send 108p upscaled to 4K (or UHD) resolution from the Lumagen to the JVC. And the JVC indicates a 4K source.
That said, I haven't been particularly impressed using the Lumagen to upscale. The image is a a bit softer and less detailed and I have preferred letting the JVC do the upscaling.
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post #3 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 07:03 AM
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Greetings,

My Marantz AV8801 will scale to 4k and sees my JVC 4910u as a 4k compatible display. When set to Auto will output 4k to the projector. The JVC handles it just fine and comparing the image scaled by the Marantz or the JVC yields similar quality.


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post #4 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like there is no benefit using any 4k device. I know Jason found his 4k HTPC to look similar to the projector being fed 1080p content. I only heard the Oppo 103D made an improvement when scaled go 4k, but we need more reports to confirm this. Still s great projector, its just the 4K out doesn't provide any real benefit with 4k sources

Edit: Meant to say the 4k out doesn't provide any real benefit with 4k devices
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post #5 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Still s great projector, its just the 4K out doesn't provide any real benefit with 4k sources

Just to be clear, you mean 1080p upscaled to 4K sources.

Whereas there have been numerous reports that, while the JVC E-shift can't match the performance of the native 4K Sony projectors, nonetheless native 4K sources do look amazing, better than 1080p, on the new JVC projectors. Some recent posts on this here:

http://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.1857738/page-3#post-20377383
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post #6 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Just to be clear, you mean 1080p upscaled to 4K sources.

Whereas there have been numerous reports that, while the JVC E-shift can't match the performance of the native 4K Sony projectors, nonetheless native 4K sources do look amazing, better than 1080p, on the new JVC projectors. Some recent posts on this here:

http://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.1857738/page-3#post-20377383

Yes, meant to say the other 4K devices doesn't provide a benefit over what JVC can do on its own. I wasn't aware of the comments on avforums, but I guess with the right 4k sources, it can provide a better picture.
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post #7 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Yes, meant to say the other 4K devices doesn't provide a benefit over what JVC can do on its own. I wasn't aware of the comments on avforums, but I guess with the right 4k sources, it can provide a better picture.

I think you're confusing upscaled 1080p content with actual 4K content. With 1080p upscaled most sources have equal or subpar scaling abilities so, most of the time, it's best to let the JVC handle the upscaling. With real native 4K being fed to the projector people are seeing a benefit over 1080p blu-ray content from sources like the RedRay. I would imagine it looks similar to 1080p blu-ray being fed to a 720p projector or TV; not as good as a native 4K device but there are obvious benefits to be seen, especially considering the uniqueness of how e-shift works.
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post #8 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think you're confusing upscaled 1080p content with actual 4K content. With 1080p upscaled most sources have equal or subpar scaling abilities so, most of the time, it's best to let the JVC handle the upscaling. With real native 4K being fed to the projector people are seeing a benefit over 1080p blu-ray content from sources like the RedRay. I would imagine it looks similar to 1080p blu-ray being fed to a 720p projector or TV; not as good as a native 4K device but there are obvious benefits to be seen, especially considering the uniqueness of how e-shift works.

I thought Jason said with his 4k HTPC that it didn't provide a noticeable difference with 4k content and that it look just like 1080p upscaled with eshift applied. Originally, I was asking about the upscaling, not really 4k sources.
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post #9 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I thought Jason said with his 4k HTPC that it didn't provide a noticeable difference with 4k content and that it look just like 1080p upscaled with eshift applied. Originally, I was asking about the upscaling, not really 4k sources.

It was comparing 1080p blu-ray content being fed to both the Sony 4K machine and a current generation JVC. The consensus for those who have done this comparison saw little difference in PQ between the two. But with real native 4K content there is a distinct advantage that favors the Sony machines (for obvious reasons).
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post #10 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm positive Jason used his HTPC with 4K content on the new JVCs
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post #11 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 03:19 PM
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He's been using his HTPC mostly to upscale 1080p to his machines. He likes the scaling MadVR has over the Sony scaler and that's why he uses it. He only has a small amount of native 4K content on his PC (like everyone else).
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post #12 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Never said he tried a lot of 4K content but he did try some. But still, he did try 4K content with the new JVCs with his HTPC. I don't see your reasoning to say the Sony has an advantage with 4K content, I didn't mention anything about Sony.
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post #13 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Never said he tried a lot of 4K content but he did try some. But still, he did try 4K content with the new JVCs with his HTPC. I don't see your reasoning to say the Sony has an advantage with 4K content, I didn't mention anything about Sony.

The reasoning is simple, the Sony's have true 4K panels and exceptional lens quality. The Sony's can simply display and resolve the 4K material better. That's why 4K content is better suited and looks better on the Sony machines. That isn't to say the JVC look bad, on the contrary, I'm sure they look excellent, but just not quite as refined as what the Sony 4Ks can do with real 4K content. I think if we see a JVC native 4K machine this year, we'll see quite a few abandon their Sony and move to a JVC.
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post #14 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 04:52 PM
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cine4home and one of his peers compared the 4K sources on the Sony and JVC recently

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/JVC-X500/JVC_DLA_X500_vs_Sony_VPL_VW500.htm

the Sony's handle the 4K better there is only so much the e-shift can do. It still looked very good though.

I would be surprised if they could match the Sony in lumen output unless they do a major overhaul. my guess would be 4K with similar output from today's models.
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The reasoning is simple, the Sony's have true 4K panels and exceptional lens quality. The Sony's can simply display and resolve the 4K material better. That's why 4K content is better suited and looks better on the Sony machines. That isn't to say the JVC look bad, on the contrary, I'm sure they look excellent, but just not quite as refined as what the Sony 4Ks can do with real 4K content. I think if we see a JVC native 4K machine this year, we'll see quite a few abandon their Sony and move to a JVC.

I was strictly referring to JVC eshift 3 compared to 4K content directly to JVC.
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post #16 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I was strictly referring to JVC eshift 3 compared to 4K content directly to JVC.

Your topic is confusing because once the JVC has the 4K image (upscaled or native content) the e-shift3 process handles the content the same no matter the source. So your real question should be; "Who does the best scaling"?

I think the JVC has excellent scaling capabilities. Cine4home has taken quite a big look into e-shift and the upscaling of earlier generations and found it to be tip top. I don't think anyone will feel compelled to abandon the JVC from it's scaling abilities. With that said, are there better scalers out there? Probably. Hopefully someone can do an in depth review on many of the machines you've listed and report back.
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post #17 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

cine4home and one of his peers compared the 4K sources on the Sony and JVC recently

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/JVC-X500/JVC_DLA_X500_vs_Sony_VPL_VW500.htm

the Sony's handle the 4K better there is only so much the e-shift can do. It still looked very good though.

I would be surprised if they could match the Sony in lumen output unless they do a major overhaul. my guess would be 4K with similar output from today's models.

To keep it in their same price range, I don't think lumens will increase. There has been a slight increase with contrast, even though its rated higher, I don't think we will see a difference in that area also. I can see the mid model being $10K and the flagship being $13k-14k.
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post #18 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Your topic is confusing because once the JVC has the 4K image (upscaled or native content) the e-shift3 process handles the content the same no matter the source. So your real question should be; "Who does the best scaling"?

My topic is eshift with 4K devices and my first post states this:

Wanted to hear feedback on how E-Shift 3 handles certain 4k devices like the Oppo 103D/105D, Radiance 2041/2042, 4K HTPC, etc.

You actually started comparing the Sony and JVC. No big deal though, but I did want to know if other devices can do a better job than eshift
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post #19 of 19 Old 02-23-2014, 07:27 PM
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Yes, "4K devices" also include devices that output native 4K material too. Which is why I thought the Sony was relevant too. But you want to focus on only upscaled 1080p to 4K content. Point taken.
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