DREAM Projector: LED plus 4K ... when do you think we will see it - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I don't think you will convince anyone here that the Panasonic can look better with certain content compared to the 1000ES. Andreas21 is going to have to get one to compare smile.gif

Let him try Olympus Has Fallen;)!
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post #62 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post

Who cares what they use at home?

If the JVC was so hot I am sure they could afford to use one in their post production facilities
it's not like the JVCs are that expensive for these hollywood big wigs.


They went with Panasonic instead because:
"When we go from film to digital and then back to film, our goal is to remain transparent through that process. Before we recommended the Panasonic projector, we did our testing and our evaluation and measurements and made sure we had confidence in its stability and characteristics. Our initial customers have been very happy with the quality of those pictures. They say that they look very much like film."
VP/GM of Feature Film Services, Laser Pacific Glenn Kennel

I did not say anything about JVC. I don't have a JVC in my dedicated room.

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post #63 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post

Let him try Olympus Has Fallen;)!

I really liked the movie, it looked terrible in my DPI LED. I need to watch it over on my new JVC to see if it can be smoothed out to look better
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post #64 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I really liked the movie, it looked terrible in my DPI LED. I need to watch it over on my new JVC to see if it can be smoothed out to look better

Sure...good movie ---but a terrible encode.

Some really heavy colour banding in the opening scene(sparring session with the President)

Even the Panny with all it's smooth tech could not supress that one--lol

As I said before ---Lionsgate are completely clue less on how to transfer their titles to home video.
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post #65 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 11:16 AM
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I did not say anything about JVC. I don't have a JVC in my dedicated room.

Yeah sorry

There is always going to be a degree of subjectivity to all of this.

Andeas21 says the Sony4K roasts the Sim2.
Art Sonneborn thinks that Sony4K does not hold a candle to the Sim2

I like the Panny.

lol
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post #66 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post

Who cares what they use at home?

If the JVC was so hot I am sure they could afford to use one in their post production facilities
it's not like the JVCs are that expensive for these hollywood big wigs.


They went with Panasonic instead because:
"When we go from film to digital and then back to film, our goal is to remain transparent through that process. Before we recommended the Panasonic projector, we did our testing and our evaluation and measurements and made sure we had confidence in its stability and characteristics. Our initial customers have been very happy with the quality of those pictures. They say that they look very much like film."
VP/GM of Feature Film Services, Laser Pacific Glenn Kennel

It's interesting as most people I have talked to who are quite experienced and knowledgeable in front projection seem to agree LCOS technology gives the most natural, film-like image - at least in the ~$10,000 and under price range.

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post #67 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

It's interesting as most people I have talked to who are quite experienced and knowledgeable in front projection seem to agree LCOS technology gives the most natural, film-like image - at least in the ~$10,000 and under price range.

There's quite a bit of debate on this. In some situations DLP does look better. In a commercial cinema setting LCoS doesn't have the absurdly large contrast advantage it does within the home theater space. Considering the far lower contrast advantage LCoS has in commercial applications I think the motion performance advantage DLP has is more important and makes it the better technology for that application. Though, this is of course my opinion and obviously everyone has the right to their own. I think the vast majority of opinions will agree the Panasonic is far from what most would consider a "reference" image, especially for commercial and professional use. Just because they work within the film industry doesn't make them experts on the subject of projectors. The Panasonic looks good but there are far better options for a colorist or DP.
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post #68 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:07 PM
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I just had a thought. How do DPs and colorists use a Panasonic for grading their films in a post production house? It can't reproduce a DCI color space with its internal controls and it doesn't support or dispaly the 12 bit 4:4:4 video information that DCI projectors get? confused.gif

Maybe they only gave the Panasonic their seal of approval because they were getting some sort of kick-back because of it?
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post #69 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

There's quite a bit of debate on this. In some situations DLP does look better. In a commercial cinema setting LCoS doesn't have the absurdly large contrast advantage it does within the home theater space. Considering the far lower contrast advantage LCoS has in commercial applications I think the motion performance advantage DLP has is more important and makes it the better technology for that application. Though, this is of course my opinion and obviously everyone has the right to their own. I think the vast majority of opinions will agree the Panasonic is far from what most would consider a "reference" image, especially for commercial and professional use. Just because they work within the film industry doesn't make them experts on the subject of projectors. The Panasonic looks good but there are far better options for a colorist or DP.

Which is why I specified around 10K and under. I realize everything changes in the commercial setting or very high end category.

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post #70 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:12 PM
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Which is why I specified around 10K and under. I realize everything changes in the commercial setting or very high end category.

I'd actually argue this as well. I can name a few single chip DLP projectors that look more "natural" than my current X90. I think the Planar PD8150 (now the Runco LS-5), Samsung SP-A800B/900B and my old LED model (NuVision ProVu P2) had a more natural looking image. As always, everyone has their own opinion on the matter. Personally speaking, I think the older JVCs (aka RS20 or RS10) looked more natural. Since the RS40 and newer they've taken on a different "look". It's hard to put into words but the newer JVCs definitely look a bit more digital than they used to.
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post #71 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'd actually argue this as well. I can name a few single chip DLP projectors that look more "natural" than my current X90. I think the Planar PD8150 (now the Runco LS-5), Samsung SP-A800B/900B and my old LED model (NuVision ProVu P2) had a more natural looking image. As always, everyone has their own opinion on the matter. Personally speaking, I think the older JVCs (aka RS20 or RS10) looked more natural. Since the RS40 and newer they've taken on a different "look". It's hard to put into words but the newer JVCs definitely look a bit more digital than they used to.

I have zero experience with front projection (my RS4810 and dedicated room will finally be up and running next week after calibration) so I have always been curious of people's opinions especially from a guy who has owned 30-something projectors! eek.gif

I've heard one very knowledgable person tell me he actually liked the older JVCs better as the shadow detail was much better especially near black. Do you think the increased native contrasts have compromised the natural look?

I've also heard some say the Sonys look a bit more natural.

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post #72 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:30 PM
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Even though the older ones had a more natural "analog" look to the image, I think the newer JVCs are overall better machines. They're sharper, brighter, have better motion handling (which was my biggest issue with them), and have more contrast. I don't know what specifically makes the newer JVCs look different. The one huge change the RS40 and newer has compared to the older models is that the panels are driven digitally now. This was needed to "overdrive" the panels to get them to refresh at 120hz which is needed for 3D playback. They use PWM (pulse-width modulation) to control the panels and this introduces some added noise (dithering noise to be specific). The added noise on top of a slightly "edgier" look makes the image look a little more digital than some of the best projectors I've had.

With that said, I don't want you or anyone reading this to think JVCs look unnatural. They don't. They still have a pleasing analog look, but to my eyes it's just a tad behind the ones mentioned in my previous post in terms of absolute "naturalness". The noise I was talking about can't really be seen from normal seating distances. So it's not a huge issue either, but it's there and I think adds a slight negative look to the overall image. Sony somehow manages to still drive their LCoS panels via analog means and they drive them even faster than the JVC's at 240hz. If JVC can somehow overhaul their panels and drive them via analog means again I think they can get that retro JVC look back. Though that's just my best guess as to why they look different compared to earlier models. It could very well be some type of added video processing or something similar that gives the image that slight digital look.
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post #73 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:38 PM
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How often does JVC typically come out with a new panel? I know you mentioned elsewhere the possibility of a new lens for 2015, but not sure if that involves a panel overhaul?

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post #74 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post

Yeah ......I do.

This is Vilomos Zsigmond who was the cinematographer for Close Encounters Of The Third Kind----for which he won an Oscar.




Vilomos Zsigmond was at first skeptical about the digital projector, but quickly changed his mind after viewing dailies with Panasonic's AE Series projectors. He says, "Those images were sharp, the color was right, and they were lifelike, they were film-like."



http://panasonic.net/avc/projector/casestudies/017.html

And who do you think payed for this??rolleyes.gif

And of corse they did not use the Panasonic in the post production, this was a market stunt from Pana and these guys got payed to say this. And if it is true they did not use the best equipment for sure. I have actually owned a Panasonic PT AE700 along time ago and when I compared it to the Optoma H77 the Pana went out the door and never came back.wink.gif

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post #75 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I don't think you will convince anyone here that the Panasonic can look better with certain content compared to the 1000ES. Andreas21 is going to have to get one to compare smile.gif

I don´t think I will be able to get my hands on the Pana 2000.cool.gif

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post #76 of 97 Old 03-26-2014, 05:46 PM
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How often does JVC typically come out with a new panel? I know you mentioned elsewhere the possibility of a new lens for 2015, but not sure if that involves a panel overhaul?

The last three years in a row they've come out with a new generation panel. Without doubt this has played a huge role in the improvements we've see with motion and 3D within the last few years. The panel size as well as pixel size has remained the same so this hasnt necessitated a new lens. With the introduction of a native UHD panel it could force them to manufacturea new lens. I think there have been rumors of a completely new light path design and chassis design. This will most likely mean a new lens too.
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The last three years in a row they've come out with a new generation panel. Without doubt this has played a huge role in the improvements we've see with motion and 3D within the last few years. The panel size as well as pixel size has remained the same so this hasnt necessitated a new lens. With the introduction of a native UHD panel it could force them to manufacturea new lens. I think there have been rumors of a completely new light path design and chassis design. This will most likely mean a new lens too.

Interesting and fun times ahead. smile.gif

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post #78 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I just had a thought. How do DPs and colorists use a Panasonic for grading their films in a post production house? It can't reproduce a DCI color space with its internal controls and it doesn't support or dispaly the 12 bit 4:4:4 video information that DCI projectors get? confused.gif

Maybe they only gave the Panasonic their seal of approval because they were getting some sort of kick-back because of it?

+1

This is so true!

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To get to the OP, the answer is now. Christie and Barco are showing 4K Laser machines right now (or shortly, I don't remember). If a 4K, Laser-illuminated, 3-chip DLP isn't a dream projector I don't know what is cool.gif

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #80 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 10:26 AM
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And who do you think payed for this??rolleyes.gif

And of corse they did not use the Panasonic in the post production, this was a market stunt from Pana and these guys got payed to say this. And if it is true they did not use the best equipment for sure. I have actually owned a Panasonic PT AE700 along time ago and when I compared it to the Optoma H77 the Pana went out the door and never came back.wink.gif




Time for you to digest some facts my friend:

"We have the distinction of being the only consumer electronics company(Panasonic) in the world to conduct core technology research and title development right in the heart of the entertainment community," she tells us. "That affords us some very unique opportunities, like translating the requirements of film makers and content creators into product, through our relationship with the Player & Device development group in Osaka."
http://www.techradar.com/news/television/hdtv/inside-panasonic-s-hollywood-labs-990692
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post #81 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 10:32 AM
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I just had a thought. How do DPs and colorists use a Panasonic for grading their films in a post production house? It can't reproduce a DCI color space with its internal controls and it doesn't support or dispaly the 12 bit 4:4:4 video information that DCI projectors get? confused.gif

Maybe they only gave the Panasonic their seal of approval because they were getting some sort of kick-back because of it?

Last fall Panasonic began shipping the PT-AE2000U widescreen LCD projector, “a home theater projector which is finding use in post production,” says Meehan. With HD colorimetry and DCI colorimetry modes, the AE2000U has already found a home in facilities like LaserPacific for color grading.

We worked with colorists and DPs in Panasonic’s Hollywood Labs” to develop the new projector, he notes. “It gives a real film-like look, especially in the greens.” The AE2000U delivers 1,500 lumens, a contrast ratio of 16,000:1 and full 1920x1080 high definition projection.

http://www.postmagazine.com/Publications/Post-Magazine/2008/May-1-2008/DIGITAL-CINEMA-PROJECTORS.aspx
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post #82 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 10:36 AM
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To get to the OP, the answer is now. Christie and Barco are showing 4K Laser machines right now (or shortly, I don't remember). If a 4K, Laser-illuminated, 3-chip DLP isn't a dream projector I don't know what is cool.gif

They are coming. After the new 2K DCI color space laser projector that I talked about here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1522097/new-player-coming-for-2k-dci-cinema Also working on a 4K laser version. smile.gif

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post #83 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 10:46 AM
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Stranger89 is referencing the new 6 laser module 4K DLP projectors from Christie and Barco, you are referencing a single laser module projector.
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post #84 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 02:25 PM
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Last fall Panasonic began shipping the PT-AE2000U widescreen LCD projector, “a home theater projector which is finding use in post production,” says Meehan. With HD colorimetry and DCI colorimetry modes, the AE2000U has already found a home in facilities like LaserPacific for color grading.

We worked with colorists and DPs in Panasonic’s Hollywood Labs” to develop the new projector, he notes. “It gives a real film-like look, especially in the greens.” The AE2000U delivers 1,500 lumens, a contrast ratio of 16,000:1 and full 1920x1080 high definition projection.

http://www.postmagazine.com/Publications/Post-Magazine/2008/May-1-2008/DIGITAL-CINEMA-PROJECTORS.aspx

But do you actually think post production houses use these projectors for post work? Just because there was some gimmicky marketing stunt done by Panasonic means absolutely nothing when it comes to the overall quality to the picture compared to something costing more. For professional use no one in their right mind would consider using this projector for such work.
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post #85 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRisprob url= 
Last fall Panasonic began shipping the PT-AE2000U widescreen LCD projector, “a home theater projector which is finding use in post production,” says Meehan. With HD colorimetry and DCI colorimetry modes, the AE2000U has already found a home in facilities like LaserPacific for color grading.

We worked with colorists and DPs in Panasonic’s Hollywood Labs” to develop the new projector, he notes. “It gives a real film-like look, especially in the greens.” The AE2000U delivers 1,500 lumens, a contrast ratio of 16,000:1 and full 1920x1080 high definition projection.

http://www.postmagazine.com/Publications/Post-Magazine/2008/May-1-2008/DIGITAL-CINEMA-PROJECTORS.aspx

Its 2014, not 2008. This is too old
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post #86 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 05:14 PM
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Stranger89 is referencing the new 6 laser module 4K DLP projectors from Christie and Barco, you are referencing a single laser module projector.

He did say, 4K, Laser-illuminated, 3-chip DLP. So I thought I would tell what I know is coming. Would you rather I keep it to myself? smile.gif

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post #87 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 05:18 PM
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But do you actually think post production houses use these projectors for post work? Just because there was some gimmicky marketing stunt done by Panasonic means absolutely nothing when it comes to the overall quality to the picture compared to something costing more. For professional use no one in their right mind would consider using this projector for such work.

+100

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post #88 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 05:24 PM
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Its 2014, not 2008. This is too old

And little did you know your LED projector is based off of a Delta designed projector circa 2007. Age has little to do with it. There are several other reasons why I don't think the Panasonic is appropriate for post house work. I think DLP is far better suited for professional work.
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post #89 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 05:42 PM
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And little did you know your LED projector is based off of a Delta designed projector circa 2007. Age has little to do with it. There are several other reasons why I don't think the Panasonic is appropriate for post house work. I think DLP is far better suited for professional work.

I wasn't even talking about the projector itself, but the article stating how they used post work in 2008, as if they were doing post work recently. At that time, it probably made sense to use the ae2000. Never said the projector was too old, the JVC RS35 was produced in 2008-09, so the age of the projector never really matters.
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post #90 of 97 Old 03-27-2014, 10:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
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Well, my third Epson 5010 died recently and I dug out my old Panny ae2000. I forgot how much I love this image. I think the "organic" description nails it. I sit 7' from my 120" screen and pixel structure on the Epson was annoying. I really like Smoothscreen on the Panny. I would sure love that 4k laser though.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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