A projector with JVC black levels but with high light output-does it exist? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 79 Old 03-27-2014, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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It's been awhile since I had some quality time with a JVC projector.
I have a JVC X55R that I have been playing with and am in love with all aspects.
Especially the stunning black level and shadow detail-nothing I have seen even comes close.
It has a new lamp and after calibration on the high lamp setting I'm getting about 11ftl on my screen.
So I need a lot more light.

I've seen the DLA-RS4000 many years ago but if I recall correctly I was not impressed.
I also really don't want another xenon driven projector. You can see the $ fly out of the screen if you look closely.

I just had a Sony 600ES side by side with JVC-zips up flame suite- but I preferred the JVC.
I was also able to see the Sony 1000/1100 back to back against the 600 and thought it looked significantly better.
So maybe that's an option.
Though I have a hard time getting past the fact that they are only 8bit.

I think I'm aware of everything out there but figured I'd ask the collective.
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post #2 of 79 Old 03-27-2014, 10:04 PM
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I think the only thing that comes close to the overall PQ of the JVCs and Sony 4K machines will be the Sim2 Lumis (and a couple other Sim2 products) but they are considerably more money than either the JVCs or Sony's. If you want high lumen and high contrast other than the Sony 4K machines the Sim2 models may be your only hope.
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post #3 of 79 Old 03-27-2014, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks forgot about Sim2
Haven't seen anything from them in a couple years maybe it's time to revisit.

In looking at the specs and it's using the same DLP DC 4 that I have now.
Also only has a single 350watt lamp and 3800 ANSI with the high contrast lens.
I bet it looks a lot like what I already have just not as bright.
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post #4 of 79 Old 03-27-2014, 10:35 PM
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Which DC4 projector do you have now? The one thing the Sim2 models have is manually adjustable irises on top of dynamic irises. They start out extremely bright and you can tailor them to your screen size with the manual iris and then enable the dynamic iris to get far better contrast performance during the dark scenes.
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post #5 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a DPI Titan Reference with the high contrast lens.
It does not have and iris so the Sim2 would be able to achieve better contrast at the loss of some light
I have not seen a DI that I like as I see them working.
Maybe this one is different, I'll see I can get a demo.
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post #6 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 07:55 AM
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That's good to hear about the X55. I have the RS4810 (identical to X55) and will have it up and running as well as pro calibrated next week. First projector. smile.gif

Screen is a 108" wide 2:35:1 Da-Lite HD 1.1 gain. Walls and carpet black.

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post #7 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 08:49 AM
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I think the Sony 1100ES would probably be your best bet if you're comparing to a X55. That is last year's model so the contrast performance between the two won't be too drastic (this year's JVC's have considerably better contrast than last years). If you absolutely love the JVC though, is there an option for a different screen that would be more suitable for something like the JVC?? If I remember right you have a low gain weave.

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post #8 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 05:17 PM
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The closest thing I found was the Sony DCI projectors. 515 or the somewhat lower cost 510. Uses up to 6 bulbs. I think it 15k lumens @ 5500:1 CR. There are DLP options that claim up to that CR and up to (or better) brightness, but not at the same time. The Titan Reference changes over time, so not sure which one you have or what you paid, but when I checked sticker price the Sony was cheaper. Not sure I can justify spending that kind of money on a pj, but I still don't have my room done, so no decision for me yet.

 

 

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post #9 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post

The closest thing I found was the Sony DCI projectors. 515 or the somewhat lower cost 510. Uses up to 6 bulbs. I think it 15k lumens @ 5500:1 CR. There are DLP options that claim up to that CR and up to (or better) brightness, but not at the same time. The Titan Reference changes over time, so not sure which one you have or what you paid, but when I checked sticker price the Sony was cheaper. Not sure I can justify spending that kind of money on a pj, but I still don't have my room done, so no decision for me yet.

Looking around there is a 4 lamp model coming out SRX-510p http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/digital-cinema-digital-cinema-projectors/srx-r510p/overview
9,000 lum is a lot of light. Hopefully you would be able to select the number of lamps you want to use.
No that you mention it the guys from Sony said they may be bringing out a projector about the 1100.
Wonder if this will be it?
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post #10 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Looking around there is a 4 lamp model coming out SRX-510p http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/digital-cinema-digital-cinema-projectors/srx-r510p/overview
9,000 lum is a lot of light. Hopefully you would be able to select the number of lamps you want to use.
No that you mention it the guys from Sony said they may be bringing out a projector about the 1100.
Wonder if this will be it?

That's a commercial theatre projector....you could get 4 JVC's and do a stack/blend. To be adventurous, relocate the 4 globes to a sealed/cooled light box and use fibre optic bundles to pipe the light to each projector, even if the globes dim unequally the light reaching each projector would be identical....smile.gif

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post #11 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 09:58 PM
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Could you just pair the JVC with a Dalite HP screen? I have and RS4910 with a Dalite HP 2.2 gain and love it. Star Wars looks fantastic! smile.gif
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post #12 of 79 Old 03-28-2014, 10:10 PM
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In all seriousness why not stack a couple JVC's?

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #13 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I think the Sony 1100ES would probably be your best bet if you're comparing to a X55. That is last year's model so the contrast performance between the two won't be too drastic (this year's JVC's have considerably better contrast than last years). If you absolutely love the JVC though, is there an option for a different screen that would be more suitable for something like the JVC?? If I remember right you have a low gain weave.

I'm really intrigued by the SRX-510p, seeing one might be a bit of a challenge but I do know someone in the pro division at Sony.
Though with the major shake-up going on who knows if he is still there.
I'll take another look at the Sony 1100ES and see what I can get out of it. IMHO the JVC produced a better overall image.

Yes I currently have a large 2:4 Screen Research woven screen with .89 gain. I need AT as my center speaker lives behind the center of the screen.
I have used Stewart microperf many times but have seen motion issues with fast pans that the woven do not produce.
Also think the woven materiel has better audio fidelity.
I unaware of any high gain woven screens.
Quote:
That's a commercial theatre projector....you could get 4 JVC's and do a stack/blend. To be adventurous, relocate the 4 globes to a sealed/cooled light box and use fibre optic bundles to pipe the light to each projector, even if the globes dim unequally the light reaching each projector would be identical....smile.gif

Ah stacking just like the old days...
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post #14 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

I'm really intrigued by the SRX-510p, seeing one might be a bit of a challenge but I do know someone in the pro division at Sony.
Though with the major shake-up going on who knows if he is still there.
I'll take another look at the Sony 1100ES and see what I can get out of it. IMHO the JVC produced a better overall image.

Yes I currently have a large 2:4 Screen Research woven screen with .89 gain. I need AT as my center speaker lives behind the center of the screen.
I have used Stewart microperf many times but have seen motion issues with fast pans that the woven do not produce.
Also think the woven materiel has better audio fidelity.
I unaware of any high gain woven screens.
Ah stacking just like the old days...

Where are you located. I know someone who has one. BUT Sony is absolutely not interested in selling this to consumers. You better do a short term lease on a commercial theater and buy one for that. No dealers for consumers have been established. you have to go through regular commercial theater channels and be prepared to pay list price. from my trusted owner, it blows everything else away.

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post #15 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks sounds like all the dci folks. I get it, that's what they are focused on. Selling one to some shlub let me is not worth their time.
I'm going to check with the guys I know at sony and see what they know. Last time I spoke to them they did mention a projector above the 1100. Who knows what that is.
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post #16 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 04:13 PM
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There is one for about double the price. Basically it has a different mother board and has two,, if I remember correctly, display port inputs which can be used in tandem. Look at the Sony professional site.
B&H Photo has it listed as the VPL-GT100, I think that might be wrong and it should be the VPL-GT1000 .

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post #17 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony said it would be a lot brighter than the 1100.
GT100 looks to be identical http://vdcds.com/site/vpl-g-series/sony-vpl-gt100/
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post #18 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 04:42 PM
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What I was suggesting was a quad blend, near 4K for the price of a Sony 1100, with greater brightness potential with lower black levels.

4 JVCs' blended(surely AVS would do a good deal!), a clever rack mount, a Matrox type software package a bit o'tweaking...and smile.gif

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/powerdesk/edge_overlap/?utm_campaign=EDGE_OVERLAP_PR&utm_medium=PR&utm_source=PR#close


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post #19 of 79 Old 03-29-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I have edge blended projectors before and have always been able to see the blend.
I'm going to wait and see what the 4k DLP looks like before I jump in-again..,
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post #20 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 01:36 AM
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The stack I'm thinking of isn't a blend - it's a simple stack of two identical projectors to increase light output. This device is supposed to make it simple:

http://www.elitescreens.com/index.php/news-2740/news/1830-may-13-andrew-robinson-puts-the-airflex5d-multi-projector-stacking-processor-through-its-paces

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post #21 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 03:34 AM
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Stacks aren't simple and using electronic adjustments to in essence shift pixel grids to be subpixel grids costs resolution and sharpness. I do believe the easy peasy videos to be somewhat misleading. Blends are a much better solution but fork out the $5K for the blender version something cheap bastards are highly unlikely to do. For a stack, use mechanical alignment with a precision adjustment platform. The reviewer talks about contrast but fails to mention the absolute ref black level is doubled. Or the loss of resolution and sharpness. You end up not overlaying the native panel resolution.. Think edge blending as the way to go. Me. I will just stick with my 2000 luman projector, a low gain screen, and a beautiful dark theater room.

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post #22 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Stacks aren't simple and using electronic adjustments to in essence shift pixel grids to be subpixel grids costs resolution and sharpness. I do believe the easy peasy videos to be somewhat misleading. Blends are a much better solution but fork out the $5K for the blender version something cheap bastards are highly unlikely to do. For a stack, use mechanical alignment with a precision adjustment platform. The reviewer talks about contrast but fails to mention the absolute ref black level is doubled. Or the loss of resolution and sharpness. You end up not overlaying the native panel resolution.. Think edge blending as the way to go. Me. I will just stick with my 2000 luman projector, a low gain screen, and a beautiful dark theater room.

+1

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post #23 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

I have edge blended projectors before and have always been able to see the blend.

Possibly not an issue with the new JVC's and autoiris, or if the light control in your room is slightly less than perfect so that the room light determines the minimum black level.

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post #24 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 12:23 PM
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The projectors need to be calibrated to each other as closely as possible. This was an issue when edge blending CRTs where the tubes were of difference hour ages from each other.

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post #25 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The projectors need to be calibrated to each other as closely as possible. This was an issue when edge blending CRTs where the tubes were of difference hour ages from each other.
This is one of the main reasons we use DPI for the Colormax you can get multiple displays dialed in very quickly.
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post #26 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 04:06 PM
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+1

Andrew Robinson does not have credibility at all to me.



+1


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post #27 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 05:16 PM
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This is one of the main reasons we use DPI for the Colormax you can get multiple displays dialed in very quickly.

OK. smile.gif Explain the we, DPI, and Colormax for the uninformed masses here.

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post #28 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry- Digital Projection Inc. http://digitalprojection.com/
Colormax http://www.digitalprojection.com/TechnologyInnovations/ColorMaxTechnology/tabid/71/Default.aspx
Essentially it allows you to enter a target color gamut, enter measured color gamut, and the projector adjust itself to match the target values.
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post #29 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 06:20 PM
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This is similar to other DLP based calibration functions that have been out there for awhile. Samsung had it and so did Planar. DLP is math, so if you tell it your current values and it knows what it is supposed to be, it should be able to calibrate itself. DCI based projectors use something similar as well. Essentially you are telling it the drift from the aging of the bulb.

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post #30 of 79 Old 03-30-2014, 08:17 PM
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The OP was asking for a way to get more brightness out of a 1080p image I thought. Blending is used to get mainly higher resolution, yes (although of course you also get more light output out of any given screen size if aiming two projectors at it, whether stacked or blended)? Mark Haflich - couldn't you put two digital pj's into a dual-mount projector rack that has fine physical controls for alignment, then use the Airflex software for the last 1% of image alignment without getting a noticeable hit to resolution?

Guys have been doing CRT stacks for years - that requires aligning six lenses. We're only talking two lenses in this scenario.

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