OLED projectors - when? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Considering we are already seeing 55-inch OLED TVs hitting the market when will the projector folks jump on and produce OLED-based projectors? With OLEDs perfect blacks, and ridiculously-fast pixel response and refresh rates I'd think they could make a killer projector.
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post #2 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 08:33 AM
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I doubt very much that we will ever see OLED-based projection. In OLED, the panel itself is the light source, unlike LCD, LCOS, or DLP where an external light source is used. So if you shrank an OLED panel down small enough to fit in a projector, you couldn't pass light through it (like LCD) or bounce light off of it (DLP and LCOS). Imagine spreading the brightness of a tiny little OLED display 1/10th the size of a smart watch screen over an area the size of a HT screen, and you have a general idea of the problem smile.gif

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post #3 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 03:00 PM
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OLED is a replacement for projection. We will have 120" rolldown OLED screens someday.
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 04:19 PM
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I will hold out for a 123" D.

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post #5 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 04:27 PM
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The only issue I have with huge flat panel displays is how different they look to projection material. There's a type of organic look to a projection image on a projection screen that I've never seen any flat panel even remotely come close to. Every TV I've watched reminds me constantly that I'm watching a "TV" and it totally takes me out of that home theater state of mind.

I think the biggest reason for this has to do with the glass or synthetic anti-reflective front they have on the TV. If they sold a home theater version without this on the front I think the image would be far more appealing. After all, if your theater is done properly you wouldn't need a anti-reflective piece of material on the screen anyways.
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post #6 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Coupe View Post

I doubt very much that we will ever see OLED-based projection. In OLED, the panel itself is the light source, unlike LCD, LCOS, or DLP where an external light source is used. So if you shrank an OLED panel down small enough to fit in a projector, you couldn't pass light through it (like LCD) or bounce light off of it (DLP and LCOS). Imagine spreading the brightness of a tiny little OLED display 1/10th the size of a smart watch screen over an area the size of a HT screen, and you have a general idea of the problem smile.gif

Actually I don't see an issue with the technology from a hypothetical standpoint. I think the real issue will be the OLEDs producing enough light from such a small piece of display to look similar in brightness to our current 1000+lumen machines. Like DLP and LCOS, the light is reflected off the surface of the micro-display. I don't see how this is any different than what's currently being done. Instead of reflected light from the surface the light source would be the panel itself. Like I said, we'd need to know if they could produce enough light without overheating.
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post #7 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Coupe View Post

I doubt very much that we will ever see OLED-based projection. In OLED, the panel itself is the light source, unlike LCD, LCOS, or DLP where an external light source is used. So if you shrank an OLED panel down small enough to fit in a projector, you couldn't pass light through it (like LCD) or bounce light off of it (DLP and LCOS). Imagine spreading the brightness of a tiny little OLED display 1/10th the size of a smart watch screen over an area the size of a HT screen, and you have a general idea of the problem smile.gif
An OLED projector would not be a micro display but instead would be akin to a CRT projector, ie a lens on say a 5" to 10" panel. Alas the current panels do not output enough light to be feasible.

For a crude example place say a Galaxy 5 behind an old 7"CRT lens.
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post #8 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 05:42 PM
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Wonder if the old Hughes-Jvc ILA tech could be applied to O-Led...

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post #9 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The only issue I have with huge flat panel displays is how different they look to projection material. There's a type of organic look to a projection image on a projection screen that I've never seen any flat panel even remotely come close to. Every TV I've watched reminds me constantly that I'm watching a "TV" and it totally takes me out of that home theater state of mind.

I think the biggest reason for this has to do with the glass or synthetic anti-reflective front they have on the TV. If they sold a home theater version without this on the front I think the image would be far more appealing. After all, if your theater is done properly you wouldn't need a anti-reflective piece of material on the screen anyways.

Absolutely agree on all points.

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post #10 of 25 Old 03-28-2014, 05:51 PM
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OLED still has a long way to go before we know if it even survives the market and how well the technology actually ages over time.

People are always talking about how incredible the blacks are, but if more people cared about that Panasonic would still be making plasmas and perhaps even Pioneer. Big, cheap, and bright - that's what the vast majority of people like and LED does that very, very well.

I hope I am wrong, but I see a lot of struggle for OLED to make it.

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post #11 of 25 Old 03-29-2014, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

OLED is a replacement for projection. We will have 120" rolldown OLED screens someday.

Agreed, I just figured since projectors use tiny displays OLED projectors could be done now, while we're waiting for flat or rollable OLED displays. On the bendable OLED thing, have you guys looked at the LG G Flex or Samsung Round phones yet?
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-29-2014, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

OLED still has a long way to go before we know if it even survives the market and how well the technology actually ages over time.

People are always talking about how incredible the blacks are, but if more people cared about that Panasonic would still be making plasmas and perhaps even Pioneer. Big, cheap, and bright - that's what the vast majority of people like and LED does that very, very well.

I hope I am wrong, but I see a lot of struggle for OLED to make it.

OLEDs are far less complicated to make than LCDs (less layers including no backlighting). In the end they will be both better (already are) AND cheaper to produce.

With regard to OLED needing to prove anything, there's already been many billions invested in manufacturing facilities for them, and nearly every high-end cellphone on the market already uses them. Samsung is about to release a high-end tablet with an OLED screen. And now there's TVs which reviewers describe as the best TVs ever produced. Auto manufacturers are also looking to use it (Audi for one) and airliners are being designed without windows inside the plane but with OLED all over the interior used to show passengers the outside). What other technology has gotten to this point and then NOT made it big?
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post #13 of 25 Old 04-19-2014, 06:58 AM
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Emagin is coming out with microdisplays with ultra high brightness.  The monochrome version is available now at 24000 nits.  The color versions are currently at 1000, but they are removing the color filters and will have a 5000 version out soon, then 10000 and more.  With this brightness, is an OLED microdisplay projection becoming a reality?

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post #14 of 25 Old 04-19-2014, 10:16 AM
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The chip size for WUXGA (1920x1200) is .86″. It larger than current LCoS chips but smaller than .95" DLP chips. So in terms of putting it into the projector - it's doable. With three emitting OLEDs as light sources we can have local dimming projectors!
Emalurker, are you from the eMagin company? If so I can only root for you wholeheartedly for bringing us such projectors.
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post #15 of 25 Old 04-19-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdoherty972 View Post

OLEDs are far less complicated to make than LCDs (less layers including no backlighting). In the end they will be both better (already are) AND cheaper to produce.

With regard to OLED needing to prove anything, there's already been many billions invested in manufacturing facilities for them, and nearly every high-end cellphone on the market already uses them. Samsung is about to release a high-end tablet with an OLED screen. And now there's TVs which reviewers describe as the best TVs ever produced. Auto manufacturers are also looking to use it (Audi for one) and airliners are being designed without windows inside the plane but with OLED all over the interior used to show passengers the outside). What other technology has gotten to this point and then NOT made it big?

Other display technologies did not have to deal with LED. Well, some did and look what happened.

Making OLED for a cell phone and other applications is a far cry from consistent yields for 60"+ displays at reasonable costs and low yields are a big issue.

The fact Sony and Panasonic bowed out is a a big negative and indicative of the situation.

It will be many years before a 70" OLED matches the price of a 70" LED for the regular consumer - if it ever gets that far.

This article puts it in perspective.

http://www.cnet.com/news/seven-problems-with-current-oled-televisions/

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post #16 of 25 Old 04-19-2014, 12:04 PM
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OLED is not a suitable projection technology. However, it might replace projection if they can successfully print roll-up OLEDs. Then you'll basically buy what looks like a motorized roll-up projection screen that's an emissive OLED. I wouldn't recommend holding your breath for that though.
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post #17 of 25 Old 04-19-2014, 12:37 PM
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Perhaps we could agree that OLED microdisplays may only be suitable as pico projectors.

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post #18 of 25 Old 04-21-2014, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emalurker View Post

Emagin is coming out with microdisplays with ultra high brightness.  The monochrome version is available now at 24000 nits.  The color versions are currently at 1000, but they are removing the color filters and will have a 5000 version out soon, then 10000 and more.  With this brightness, is an OLED microdisplay projection becoming a reality?

How many total lumens does that give?

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post #19 of 25 Old 04-21-2014, 06:12 AM
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How many lumens are there at the UHP lamp output, just before the light hits the panels?
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post #20 of 25 Old 04-21-2014, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The only issue I have with huge flat panel displays is how different they look to projection material. There's a type of organic look to a projection image on a projection screen that I've never seen any flat panel even remotely come close to. Every TV I've watched reminds me constantly that I'm watching a "TV" and it totally takes me out of that home theater state of mind.

I think the biggest reason for this has to do with the glass or synthetic anti-reflective front they have on the TV. If they sold a home theater version without this on the front I think the image would be far more appealing. After all, if your theater is done properly you wouldn't need a anti-reflective piece of material on the screen anyways.

+1

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post #21 of 25 Old 04-21-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

How many lumens are there at the UHP lamp output, just before the light hits the panels?

Depending on the watts of the bulb. BUT I read that only about 10% of the bulbs light output is projected outside the projectors lens. That also depends on how efficient the light path is and type of tech...

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post #22 of 25 Old 04-21-2014, 09:01 AM
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Depending on the watts of the bulb.
Really?! eek.gifbiggrin.gifHere the rated luminous efficiency for UHP projector lamp is rated 30-50 lm/W. That means 9000-15000 of pure lumen output for bare lamp. Probably a bit less till the moment it hits the panel. If so then the 3 OLED chips combined as stated by emalurker (5000 lumen version) will give out 15000 lumen! Which is comparable with 300W UHP lamp or even more. I wonder how do they fare with heat dissipation and panel degradation with this light output.
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post #23 of 25 Old 04-22-2014, 09:52 AM
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...If so then the 3 OLED chips combined as stated by emalurker (5000 lumen version) will give out 15000 lumen!

Those were nits, not lumens.

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post #24 of 25 Old 04-22-2014, 10:20 AM
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A classic case of "nit" picking by an engineer. smile.gif

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post #25 of 25 Old 04-22-2014, 10:35 AM
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good one, Mark smile.gif

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