Which of these PJs would you get? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 06-28-2014, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Which of these PJs would you get?

I'm debating between the following two options. Room is light controlled, screen is 120" Scope Seymour XD.

(assume pricing is same)
1. Sony HW55ES + Lumagen Mini 3D
or
2. JVC DLA-4910U w/motorized zoom

I know that blacks will be better on the JVC, but brightness might be better on the Sony which makes for better 3D. While 3D is not my primary content, I do enjoy watching 3D. The JVC would be mounted around 14'; The Sony would be mounted around 14.5'.

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post #2 of 13 Old 06-28-2014, 02:59 PM
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I use 120in screen have jvc rs 4910 i wouldnt be to worred about light output on that size screen
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post #3 of 13 Old 06-28-2014, 03:06 PM
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The Sony only has a couple hundred lumens over the JVC and at that size the JVC is still very bright even though the Sony has that many lumens over it. Given the scenario and options I'd buy the JVC.
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-28-2014, 03:35 PM
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if you turn the crosstalk controls up a few clicks to around 5 or 6, it's surprisingly close to the HW50/55. This setting actually controls the 3D brightness output.

I would definitely get the 4910 vs. the HW55.

I'm still working on those light boxes you showed me last year. I'm currently working on covering the walls in velvet. good luck with your new theater, wow round # 3 !


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post #5 of 13 Old 06-28-2014, 09:42 PM
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You really can't go wrong with either.
They both look amazing. But the black floor on the JVC is nothing short of a revelation.
From what I have experienced when calibrated both end up very close in light output.
On high lamp mode you will have enough light for 2D.

I would highly recommend the Mini with the JVC.
IMHO a Lumagen with a proper pro calibration is a necessity for any high performance video system.

I do think you might have some trouble achieving a level of acceptable brightness with either for 3D.
If you do go with the JVC absolutely positively get glasses with horizontal polarization.
It makes a huge difference in brightness, contrast and sharpness all with less x-talk.
The really amazing difference is the 3D effect. Depth is amazing but its the out of screen effect that is the real stunner.

Good luck and happy hunting!
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post #6 of 13 Old 06-29-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
I would highly recommend the Mini with the JVC.
IMHO a Lumagen with a proper pro calibration is a necessity for any high performance video system.
Unfortunately, my budget does not allow for me to get a JVC and the Mini. I have a line on a HW55 and paired with the Mini, get's me close to the same price as the JVC. (Actually, a couple hundred less) In my new theater, seating is going to be around 11.5' and with the projector back at 14.5', getting up to manually zoom is a hassle. That's why I was looking to pair the Sony with the Mini. More for downscaling 16x9 to fit vertically on a Scope screen. Maybe down the road I'd be able to get a calibration setup, but not at first.
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
I do think you might have some trouble achieving a level of acceptable brightness with either for 3D.
Why do you say this? I had pretty good 3D from the 50 I had before. The original Sony glasses sucked, but my wife liked the PS3 glasses and I liked the Optoma/Monster ones.
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
If you do go with the JVC absolutely positively get glasses with horizontal polarization.
It makes a huge difference in brightness, contrast and sharpness all with less x-talk.
The really amazing difference is the 3D effect. Depth is amazing but its the out of screen effect that is the real stunner.

Good luck and happy hunting!
Over in the JVC 3D glass thread, seems that the horizontal polarization only works if you have a screen that retains polarization. I have a Seymour XD AT screen that supposedly does NOT retain polarization, therefore not making a difference on the glasses. Are you saying that regardless of the screen, the horizontal polarization works better?

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post #7 of 13 Old 06-29-2014, 09:58 AM
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The mini is a luxury, not a necessity with the 4910. There's several out of the box settings that provide an excellent viewing experience. The HW55 has no real advantage here vs. this year's JVC.

I thought you had an HW50 before? The 55 is basically the same projector. Same lens + too much reliance on reality creation. the 4910 has a better lens and is not dependent on the e-shift for a great picture.










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post #8 of 13 Old 06-29-2014, 10:10 AM
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Listen to Zombie!!!! 3D is much better this year with the 4910 and you can get an Expand emitter and glasses for $18.99 which is a real bargain.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The glasses work great as long as your screen does not retain polarization. Most screens are fine.


Check out the mini shootout thread and Projector reviews on the 4910.

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post #9 of 13 Old 06-30-2014, 08:37 AM
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Zombie is right the JVC is very good out of the box especially after a 2-point grayscale.
And given the ability for lens memory your set for 16:9.
You can get a lot more out of the projector with the Mini but you won't we disappointed with a properly calibrated stock.

I have a large scope screen-15' wide from Screen Research. The surface is older and has a gain of roughly .8.
I felt that anything larger than 7' wide with the JVC on high brightness was not acceptable for 3D.
I don't have the measurements handy but if memory serves me I was somewhere around 11-12ftl.
Given that the XD has some gain you might find that you can go larger.

I tried the horizontal polarization glasses on both a screen that retains a high level of polarization 1st gen Stewart ST130 and low Screen Research woven.
The glasses made a huge difference on both.
I have several different glasses from various manufactures.
The Expand 105 IMHO are by far the best. They are one of the few that does not have the reflection on the surface facing your eye. I personally find this do be a show stopper.
The trouble is the Expand's with horizontal polarization are hard to find in the US.
I'm pretty sure the JVC are the same as the 105'.

Last edited by trans_lux; 06-30-2014 at 08:47 AM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 07-03-2014, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post
I'm debating between the following two options. Room is light controlled, screen is 120" Scope Seymour XD.

(assume pricing is same)
1. Sony HW55ES + Lumagen Mini 3D
or
2. JVC DLA-4910U w/motorized zoom

I know that blacks will be better on the JVC, but brightness might be better on the Sony which makes for better 3D. While 3D is not my primary content, I do enjoy watching 3D. The JVC would be mounted around 14'; The Sony would be mounted around 14.5'.
If you are using a scope screen and not planning on using an anamorphic lens, the 4910 with lens memory is your best choice in my opinion.

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post #11 of 13 Old 07-03-2014, 03:12 PM
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The only Stewart Screen that retains any significant amount of polarization (a screen that retains polarization has what is called a high polarization extinction ratio) is the Firehawk LS (LS stands for large screen) other than the Stewart silver screens. The FH LS has a polarization extinction ratio approximately the same as the Stewart 3D fabric but not as high as the Stewart 5D fabric. Unless you have the LS, it makes no difference how the slits on the glasses are oriented because the light that bounces off mosts screens is completely depolarized for all practicable purposes.

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post #12 of 13 Old 07-04-2014, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
The only Stewart Screen that retains any significant amount of polarization (a screen that retains polarization has what is called a high polarization extinction ratio) is the Firehawk LS (LS stands for large screen) other than the Stewart silver screens. The FH LS has a polarization extinction ratio approximately the same as the Stewart 3D fabric but not as high as the Stewart 5D fabric. Unless you have the LS, it makes no difference how the slits on the glasses are oriented because the light that bounces off mosts screens is completely depolarized for all practicable purposes.
Yes and to add to what Mark is saying, you need to make sure the projector and glasses maintain polarization. Not all projectors do so. The JVC does.

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post #13 of 13 Old 07-05-2014, 05:38 AM
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Let me expand on what Mike is trying to say. Three chip reflective LCD projectors such as the Sonys and the JVCs pass the light through a polarizer before it hits the chip and after it hits the chip (when it reflects back off the chip. The JVCs keep the polarizers all in the same orientation. That means the red, green, and blue light being emitted from the projector is polarized in the same direction. When this nicely polarized light hits the screen, it will depolarize due to the screen material and its coating unless the materials and coatings are designed not to scatter the otherwise coherent light. So called silver screens which use aluminum reflect a lot of the polarized light off the screen coherently although some of the light is depolarized or made non coherent. No cheap shots by mean about less than fully coherent posts. Of course the more err silver a screen is the worse it is for 2D. Stewart 3D fabric is a silver screen but it is not as silver as Stewart 5D. It is intended as a 2D/3D screen while 5D is intended only for 3D. Stewart Fire Hawk LS (quite different from Fire Hawk G4) has more gain than FH G4 (1.25 vs 1.1), needs a minimum throw however of 1.6 times screen width to avoid hot spotting but has a very high polarization extinction ratio. A lot of the light bouncing off it remains coherent. Ta DA. Since the JVCs' polarizers are all oriented the same way, if your 3D glasses have polarizer slits oriented the same way as the polarized light bouncing of the screen, the glasses will filter out less light in totally repolarizing the light hitting them. That's what active 3D glasses do. They have fixed slits in both lenses to repolarize the light which in most application is non coherent light bouncing off the screen. This repolarization throws away a large amount of the light bouncing off the screen allowing only the part of the non coherent light that is aligned with its slits to pass. The active part of the glasses is a second polarizer that rotates so to speak (actually orientates its crystals be perpendicular to the slits) to block almost all of the light from passing that lens. If the light hitting the screen and bouncing off it is polarized the same direction as the fixed polarizers in the glasses, one loses a lot less light due to the fixed polarizer in each glass lens. Ergo if and only if your screen maintains a significant amount of polarized light hitting it (most screens do not and that most likely includes yours, sorry) and if your projector orientates the fixed polarizers in it all in the same direction, you will benefit from selecting glasses with matching slits. If you were paying attention, you will note that I did not use Sony as an example. The Sonys do not orientate their chips in the same direction. Without violating proprietary agreements, one of the polarizers in the Sony is orientated 90 degrees from the other two. So if your screen retains a high degree of polarization, matching the slits to the two colors with the same orientation will allow more of two colors to pass and less of the third screwing up the color balance. You can do a 3D calibration but there will be considerably more light loss because of the miss orientation of the third. The best solution here is to get glasses with their slits orientated at 45 degrees, so that no colors are differently treated orientation wise.


Remember there is no perfect screen material for both 2D and 3D. High gain screens (all of them including Da-lite HP are less than ideal for 2D image quality but do give the benefit of having enough light to make you happy (given the right set up). And the extra light is really needed for 3D illumination. The best screen material in my opinion is Studeotec 100 or Snomatt 100 (the same materials) by Stewart. But you need a black pit room because the material has a very wide half angle (and I don't just mean your ability to control ambient light, I also mean your ability to eliminate light bouncing of the walls, ceiling, and floor coming from the light bouncing of the screen. Then your screen must have enough lumens to adequately light your chose screen size. For me with my Sony VPL-VW1000ES, this means at most a 123 inch D 1.78. For 3D, even my 110" D 1.78 is rather dim but is watchable.

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Last edited by mark haflich; 07-05-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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