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post #1 of 21 Old 06-30-2014, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Projector for a Plasma Fan

I'm a newbie to the home theater projector world. With the end of plasmas, what projector most closely matches the appearance of a plasma? I love my Panasonic plasmas but would like to move up to a 110 or 123" inch screen. I mostly watch movies and sports and this will be installed in a non dedicated room. Some ambient light but not overwhelming.
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-01-2014, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawk-eye View Post
I'm a newbie to the home theater projector world. With the end of plasmas, what projector most closely matches the appearance of a plasma? I love my Panasonic plasmas but would like to move up to a 110 or 123" inch screen. I mostly watch movies and sports and this will be installed in a non dedicated room. Some ambient light but not overwhelming.
You need to realize that "with some ambient light" you will not be able to achieve the really dark blacks that are possible with a fully light controlled room. With the room lighting as it will be for used for viewing, however dark the screen appears with the projector turned off will be the blackest that black can appear in the projected video, even with a perfect projector. There are some projection screens designed to help deal with ambient light in the room The Black Diamond series from Screen Innovations is one popular option for helping deal with such lighting situations.
Link: http://www.screeninnovations.com/scr...av0#SliderNav0


If you can achieve full light control at night for movie viewing, then you would be able to get the full benefit of a ultra high contrast projector that will provide a "plasma" like image. The JVC DLA-RS4910 (as well are the more expensive JVC models) offers darker blacks and a higher native contrast ratio than other competitive projectors.
JVS DLA-RS4910 Review: http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/...jector-review/
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post #3 of 21 Old 07-01-2014, 06:33 AM
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Your room's wall and ceiling colour factors in. If it is light then don't bother getting a projector like the JVCs since the light will bounce off these surfaces back onto the screen and wash out the image. I know this because I gave my parents my old RS2 and they have it in a lighter coloured room and the image looks horrible compared to when it was in my darker coloured dedicated room.

Even a low amount of light coloured surfaces can have a big impact. In my room my ceiling tiles and walls are a darker grey but the ceiling track for the tiles is white. Years ago I covered the front half of my room with black felt and it was a nice improvement. I then decided to replace that with black velvet a year ago and while waiting for the velvet I took the felt down and saw how much the white track was affecting the image because of the light bouncing back. A great example was in the aspect ratio bars. In a dark scene they'd be nice and dark but if a bright scene came on they'd lighten up big time. Putting up the velvet was a huge improvement (even compared to the felt) with this very noticeable washing out being eliminated and the image just has a good bit more richness and depth to it.

The JVCs produce a plasma like image but you need to have optimal room conditions for that so in your case I'd say it wouldn't be a good fit. Maybe a DLP that has a decently high lumen rating. Blacks won't be as good yet it will probably fit your room better.

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post #4 of 21 Old 07-01-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk-eye View Post
I'm a newbie to the home theater projector world. With the end of plasmas, what projector most closely matches the appearance of a plasma? I love my Panasonic plasmas but would like to move up to a 110 or 123" inch screen. I mostly watch movies and sports and this will be installed in a non dedicated room. Some ambient light but not overwhelming.
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-01-2014, 04:29 PM
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LCOS seems the most 'plasma like' imo.


I've very happy with the jvc x35 compared to my Samsung f8500. in fact, I'd give the nod to the jvc in pretty much every category, including black levels. whatever the plasma does better, it's only barely better and not very noticeable to me.


while I agree, an 'optimal room' is a bonus, I would not say it's a requirement by any means. if you can keep the lights off, you're still going to experience that incredible on/off contrast and impressive fade to black. bright walls/ceiling will not affect black levels much, but it will affect ansi contrast with mixed scenes. fortunately, when there's something bright on screen(bright enough to light up your walls and reflect light back onto the screen), then above black black levels tend to still look good anyway.


basically, as long as the lights are off, you're still going to get great performance. but treating the walls/ceiling will add even more performance, pushing it BEYOND plasma quality imo.


watching with lights on is a whole different story, and imo, is more about the screen. a white screen simply doesn't show black well unless no light is hitting the screen. if you have lights on it will wash out the image big time. and it doesn't take that much light(if it's hitting the screen) to be noticeable. the light coming off my cell phone is enough if pointed towards the screen. a small led flashlight can completely 'erase' the image on screen. if you really intend to use a projector in a room with lights on(and hitting the screen) you need to figure on something like the black diamond, or similar style screens. they are not cheap.


the other way around this is to aim your lighting, and not let it 'flood' the room and hit the screen. I can turn my potlights over my seating up pretty bright before it affects the image on screen. but the lights that hit the screen need to be turned completely off for it to look any good.
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-02-2014, 04:42 AM
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A high contrast projector, such as JVC X700 or X900 combined with an ambient light rejecting screen, for example Screen Innovations Black Diamond, and you may be satisfied. As pointed out, without light control and darker room color, it's darn near impossible to get the "perfect blacks" as a plasma. Once you see the size and immersion of a properly setup and calibrated front projection system, you'll quickly forget the plasma though… :-)

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post #7 of 21 Old 07-02-2014, 05:49 AM
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A high contrast projector, such as JVC X700 or X900 combined with an ambient light rejecting screen, for example Screen Innovations Black Diamond, and you may be satisfied. As pointed out, without light control and darker room color, it's darn near impossible to get the "perfect blacks" as a plasma. Once you see the size and immersion of a properly setup and calibrated front projection system, you'll quickly forget the plasma though… :-)
Very true and if you can set the room up for good light control, you will get the black levels you are used to.

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post #8 of 21 Old 07-02-2014, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Ron Jones;25402818]You need to realize that "with some ambient light" you will not be able to achieve the really dark blacks that are possible with a fully light controlled room. With the room lighting as it will be for used for viewing, however dark the screen appears with the projector turned off will be the blackest that black can appear in the projected video, even with a perfect projector. There are some projection screens designed to help deal with ambient light in the room The Black Diamond series from Screen Innovations is one popular option for helping deal with such lighting situations.
Link: http://www.screeninnovations.com/scr...av0#SliderNav0


Unfortunately, I don't have any JVC dealers nearby to see a projector. The local JVC dealer went out of business recently.

For my situation, would you recommend the Black Diamond series over a Firehawk G4? I have viewed Stewart screens but have not viewed a Screen Innovations model.

The DLPs seem to have more natural appearing colors. I've viewed a couple DPI models. The Sony 4K 600 series has a different look when compared to a plasma but the limited 4K content is unbelieveable on this projector. I use high res monitors at work so I certainly can appreciate the pluses of the higher resolution. I just wish more 4k content was available.
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post #9 of 21 Old 07-03-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawk-eye View Post


Unfortunately, I don't have any JVC dealers nearby to see a projector. The local JVC dealer went out of business recently.

For my situation, would you recommend the Black Diamond series over a Firehawk G4? I have viewed Stewart screens but have not viewed a Screen Innovations model.

The DLPs seem to have more natural appearing colors. I've viewed a couple DPI models. The Sony 4K 600 series has a different look when compared to a plasma but the limited 4K content is unbelieveable on this projector. I use high res monitors at work so I certainly can appreciate the pluses of the higher resolution. I just wish more 4k content was available.

If it's within your budget, the Sony VW600 and VW1100 are great projectors. Although the VW600 doesn't have the ultra deep black levels of the latest JVC projectors, it does put up a really great picture. Some people really like the look of the images put up by the better DLP projectors (eg., DPI, Sim2 or Runco). Some would say they have more 'pop' and others say they look more digital. For me I prefer the images provided of the better LCoS projectors, be they from Sony or JVC. In any case having a projector calibrated is generally a good investment for those owners that demand accurate images.


As for screens designed to cope with some ambient light, I haven't spent any time with the latest Firehawk (G4) so perhaps other forum members who have can comment on how it compares to the latest Black Diamond screens from SI. Note that all such screens are less than ideal when you do have full light control in the viewing room. So it is a trade-off where you either select a screen that makes the projected images have better contrast and better blacks when you are dealing with some room lighting vs. a screen that offers the best possible performance in a fully dark room.

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Last edited by Ron Jones; 07-03-2014 at 07:08 AM.
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-03-2014, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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If it's within your budget, the Sony VW600 and VW1100 are great projectors. Although the VW600 doesn't have the ultra deep black levels of the latest JVC projectors, it does put up a really great picture. Some people really like the look of the images put up by the better DLP projectors (eg., DPI, Sim2 or Runco). Some would say they have more 'pop' and others say they look more digital. For me I prefer the images provided of the better LCoS projectors, be they from Sony or JVC. In any case having a projector calibrated is generally a good investment for those owners that demand accurate images.


As for screens designed to cope with some ambient light, I haven't spent any time with the latest Firehawk (G4) so perhaps other forum members who have can comment on how it compares to the latest Black Diamond screens from SI. Note that all such screens are less than ideal when you do have full light control in the viewing room. So it is a trade-off where you either select a screen that makes the projected images have better contrast and better blacks when you are dealing with some room lighting vs. a screen that offers the best possible performance in a fully dark room.
I'm definitely leaning towards the Sony 600 paired with the Firehawk. I'm hoping to find a used/demo 600 since the new price is a bit too steep for me.
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post #11 of 21 Old 07-03-2014, 11:05 AM
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I'm definitely leaning towards the Sony 600 paired with the Firehawk. I'm hoping to find a used/demo 600 since the new price is a bit too steep for me.
I suggest you call Mike (585-671-2968) or Craig (585-671-2972) from the AV Science store to see what kind of a deal they can give you for a VW600 (maybe even a 'B' Stock) plus the Firehawk screen. AV Science is an authorized dealer for both Sony and Stewart and Craig can provide you with great advice on your projector + screen selection and setup.


If you really want to go "screen crazy" you could mount a fixed frame Stewart screen using their StudioTek 100 (ST100) screen material, perhaps in a 2.35:1 'scope' format, to use for viewing movies when you can fully darken the room (e.g., at night) and then mount an electric drop down Stewart screen using their Firehawk G4 material, of the same width and just in front of the fixed screen. That way you could lower the Firehawk for daytime viewing or anytime you need to have room lights turned on then raise it for movie viewing when you can get the room fully dark.

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Last edited by Ron Jones; 07-03-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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I suggest you call Craig from the AV Science store to see what kind of a deal they can give you for a VW600 (maybe even a 'B' Stock) plus the Firehawk screen. His direct phone number is: 585-671-2972. AV Science is an authorized dealer for both Sony and Stewart and Craig can provide you with great advice on your projector + screen selection and setup.


If you really want to go "screen crazy" you could mount a fixed frame Stewart screen using their StudioTek 100 (ST100) screen material, perhaps in a 2.35:1 'scope' format, to use for viewing movies when you can fully darken the room (e.g., at night) and then mount an electric drop down Stewart screen using their Firehawk G4 material, of the same width and just in front of the fixed screen. That way you could lower the Firehawk for daytime viewing or anytime you need to have room lights turned on then raise it for movie viewing when you can get the room fully dark.
That screen setup would be nice but expensive at the same time!

I've emailed Mike to discuss Sony and Stewart. He has a demo 1100 and kept the 600 demo for himself. I haven 't convinced him to sell it to me yet Maybe one of the experts on here can tell him he needs to upgrade to the 1100.

There are 500s for sale at half the list price of the 600s. The Sony warranty would not be valid but you can purchase a 2 year squaretrade warranty. Do the 500s work okay in the US or is there an issue with voltage or other compatibility issue?
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That screen setup would be nice but expensive at the same time!

I've emailed Mike to discuss Sony and Stewart. He has a demo 1100 and kept the 600 demo for himself. I haven 't convinced him to sell it to me yet Maybe one of the experts on here can tell him he needs to upgrade to the 1100.

There are 500s for sale at half the list price of the 600s. The Sony warranty would not be valid but you can purchase a 2 year squaretrade warranty. Do the 500s work okay in the US or is there an issue with voltage or other compatibility issue?
just tell him you'll buy the 1100 for the 600 price
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-03-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawk-eye View Post
That screen setup would be nice but expensive at the same time!

I've emailed Mike to discuss Sony and Stewart. He has a demo 1100 and kept the 600 demo for himself. I haven 't convinced him to sell it to me yet Maybe one of the experts on here can tell him he needs to upgrade to the 1100.

There are 500s for sale at half the list price of the 600s. The Sony warranty would not be valid but you can purchase a 2 year squaretrade warranty. Do the 500s work okay in the US or is there an issue with voltage or other compatibility issue?

I suggest you post questions/discussion related to the VW500/VW600 in the owner's thread for these Sony models - Link below:
Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread

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post #15 of 21 Old 07-03-2014, 01:32 PM
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just tell him you'll buy the 1100 for the 600 price
I would like to keep my job.

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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
I suggest you call Mike (585-671-2968) or Craig (585-671-2972) from the AV Science store to see what kind of a deal they can give you for a VW600 (maybe even a 'B' Stock) plus the Firehawk screen. AV Science is an authorized dealer for both Sony and Stewart and Craig can provide you with great advice on your projector + screen selection and setup.


If you really want to go "screen crazy" you could mount a fixed frame Stewart screen using their StudioTek 100 (ST100) screen material, perhaps in a 2.35:1 'scope' format, to use for viewing movies when you can fully darken the room (e.g., at night) and then mount an electric drop down Stewart screen using their Firehawk G4 material, of the same width and just in front of the fixed screen. That way you could lower the Firehawk for daytime viewing or anytime you need to have room lights turned on then raise it for movie viewing when you can get the room fully dark.
I just recently got a Stewart StudioTek 100 2:35 screen, fixed frame, and couldn't be more happy. Gorgeous screen. Ordered from Mike of AVS.

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yes, emailed Mike to discuss Sony and Stewart. He has a demo 1100 and kept the 600 demo for himself. I haven 't convinced him to sell it to me yet Maybe one of the experts on here can tell him he needs to upgrade to the 1100.
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I just recently got a Stewart StudioTek 100 2:35 screen, fixed frame, and couldn't be more happy. Gorgeous screen. Ordered from Mike of AVS.
I could order the StudioTek and see if it suffers too greatly during the day. I can always watch my plasmas in other areas during the times with the most sunlight. I'm wishing I hadn't viewed the 600. It would be easier to pick a less expensive projector without that picture quality in the back of my mind.
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-03-2014, 08:26 PM
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I could order the StudioTek and see if it suffers too greatly during the day. I can always watch my plasmas in other areas during the times with the most sunlight. I'm wishing I hadn't viewed the 600. It would be easier to pick a less expensive projector without that picture quality in the back of my mind.
Just keep in mind you pretty much need a black hole for the StudioTek 100. Very dark or black walls, carpet, no ambient light, no reflections, etc.

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post #21 of 21 Old 07-05-2014, 07:35 AM
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but you'd make a new friend... haha
Already did. He purchased the Cine 1000 LED open box at a great price.

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