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post #1 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 01:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson eh-tw9600 3d ifa berlin 2014

This is the EH-TW9600 will be offered for sale at a price of around € 5,999, and the admiral model, the EH-TW10000 which will be positioned around 6999 €

Both are 3D models and we might expect one of them to be 4K this should justify the high prices of these new models. It is not the entire range and we are still awaiting a complete version of the LCD-R (R for reflective) models.

These projectors will be presented at IFA BERLIN be held from 5 to 10 September 2014.

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...rlin-ifa-2014/
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post #2 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 05:58 AM
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A Euro costs about 1.36 in US dollars but the price quoted in euros probably includes VAT. That makes the entry level 4K if they are in fact 4K between $6500 and $7000 US. and the Admiral model (including the mount, extra bulb etc ?) about $1000 more. The non Admiral will undoubtedly peddled by every on line dealer and will be discounted. The Admiral will not.


Look for a competitive Sony 4K model at Cedia.


Just my opinion. I know absolutely nothing about the coming Epsons nor about any competitive Sony. NOTHING.


I know even less about any forth coming 4K Bluray except it ain't coming this year. And that I knew long ago.

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post #3 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 06:29 AM
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My guess is that Epson will release a projector with:

1) the high contrast panels it had previously promised but could not deliver;
2) a 4K projector;
3) a laser or LED light source;
4) a combination of any of the above.
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 06:41 AM
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I hear we can expect to see some mainstream manufacturers going the current JVC route (more or less) and offering "4K-lite" projectors. These can be expected to have HDMI 2.0 inputs that will accept 4K/UHD inputs but are still using 1080p chips for the display.

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post #5 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 06:44 AM
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My guess, a traditional bulb light source with mass market 4K LCD chips. A lens with at least some plastic elements. Basically a machine very similar to what they sell now but 4K with a slightly better lens. But I don't know. It m,ight just be a 4K lite machine as Ron suggests. I frankly don't care myself one way or another. Then again, whatever it is, Epson must be able to produce it in quantity. That didn't ever happen with its reflective LCOS chip to beat all chips. I hope they indeed come out and produce a great machine machine, which will make many epson fans verry happy. Of course, many such fans will be pissed claiming its over priced and should sell for only a bit more than current epsons. After all pricing is completely arbitrary and is set as what the market can bare and has nothing at all to do with recoupment of R&D costs and production and marketing costs, nothing.

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post #6 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 07:33 AM
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Yeah, R&D costs for Epson's Reflective LCD tech has to be pretty high, considering they tried to bring this out two years ago and failed to get high enough yields on the chips.

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post #7 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 09:21 AM
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it has to be 4K, I can't see a $7,000 Epson with 1080P.

maybe 4K LCD with automatic lens controls.
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post #8 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 10:26 AM
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It could finally be a reflective LCD from them with the higher cost reflecting a low chip yield rate.

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post #9 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
My guess, a traditional bulb light source with mass market 4K LCD chips. A lens with at least some plastic elements. Basically a machine very similar to what they sell now but 4K with a slightly better lens. But I don't know. It might just be a 4K lite machine as Ron suggests. ......................


Mark - I didn't mean to imply that these specific Epson models would be 4K lite, using 1080p panels. Rather that we will probably see some 4K lite models from some manufacturers besides JVC being announced at IFA/CEDIA. These will probably be lower priced than the new Epson models mentioned above.


As for what Epson is up to, Art, along with a few other members of the press, visited Epson in Japan recently, at their invitation/expense, and got an info dump/demos of the new Epson models. However, they are under NDA and are not allowed to provide any specifics until the official announcements at IFA or CEDIA.

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Last edited by Ron Jones; 07-05-2014 at 11:49 AM.
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 01:38 PM
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It would be great if this projector was an affordable 4k projector at $7000. Competitive pricing
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post #11 of 26 Old 07-05-2014, 04:48 PM
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An inexpensive 4K projector might not be anyways as good as a similarly priced 2K machine. Buy it over a better similarly priced 2K machine. I wouldn't.


What is the state of the present projector market?

Sony makes 2K and 4K consumer machines. There is a place in their line up for a 4K machines priced at about $7 to 8K MSRP

JVC makes 2K and e-shift 4K lite machines. They have models at the $10K and $12K MSRP price point that could this year be true 4K or true UHD machines. Fortunately all the JVC price line is heavily discounted. Of course they have cheaper machines too but these won't be true UHD or 4K.

Epson's top of the line 2K HT machine is already about $7K. What? Say it isn't true. While most just consider there lower lumen machines sold in the $2K to $3K or so range, they also have the G6900, a high high lumen beast designed specifically for large (I said LARGE). If Krane's info is correct, they can be expected at Cedia to introduce two machines between about $6 to $7K and the same machine in black with a mount and a bulb for around $8K. These will be reflective LCOS or 4K or UHD machines. relatively normal lumens power.

BenQ. Cheap machines and they don't exhibit at Cedia. I can't imagine them entering the 4K market. Could they have a 4K light machine?
They show at CES.

Its either them or Epson, or both.

There are several OEM houses that make machines for DP and Sim2 and others. I expect 4K 3 chip DLP consumer machines from them, priced at about $80K MSRP. $45K MSRP for laser powered 2K shipping around now from DP. 1920 x 1200. Brand is discounted if you go to the right places.

There are some other company who sell modified theater machines for the upper consumer end that Sim2 pursues. RP. are looking at abut $60K 2K machines from these companies. The draw? Laser powered high lumen machines with respectable contrast for big screens. And DCI if you buy a DCI sever and can legally access DCI content. And you can if you want and not just from one company who has a very expensive server and charges really high prices for content.

Cedia is about 60 days from now. Anybody want to bet cigars on my predictions?

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post #12 of 26 Old 07-06-2014, 03:02 PM
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Sounds spot on.

If JVC releases a 4K machine (my bet is 3840 x 2160) at around $12000-$13000 count me in on buying one. I'm hoping for 1500 lumens, ~25,000:1 native on/off contrast with a tweaked DI algorithm, a decent lens that doesn't exhibit streaking issues like the 1080p lenses have, higher ANSI around what the 600ES has, and reworked DILA panels for better native response time which means better 3D and better motion handling. I just want the Sony 600ES with JVCs legendary native CR. I think they can do it.

As far as BenQ goes, don't they only make DLP projectors for their home theater segment? If that's the case I think it'll be at least 2016 before we see them release a native 4K DLP machine. When the DCI exclusivity for 4K DMDs ends in 2015 I'm sure we'll only see some of the big boy companies have 4K DLP machines (Runco, Sim2, DP, ect) and then availability will trickle down to the budget minded manufacturers.
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post #13 of 26 Old 07-06-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Sounds spot on.

If JVC releases a 4K machine (my bet is 3840 x 2160) at around $12000-$13000 count me in on buying one. I'm hoping for 1500 lumens, ~25,000:1 native on/off contrast with a tweaked DI algorithm, a decent lens that doesn't exhibit streaking issues like the 1080p lenses have, higher ANSI around what the 600ES has, and reworked DILA panels for better native response time which means better 3D and better motion handling. I just want the Sony 600ES with JVCs legendary native CR. I think they can do it.

As far as BenQ goes, don't they only make DLP projectors for their home theater segment? If that's the case I think it'll be at least 2016 before we see them release a native 4K DLP machine. When the DCI exclusivity for 4K DMDs ends in 2015 I'm sure we'll only see some of the big boy companies have 4K DLP machines (Runco, Sim2, DP, ect) and then availability will trickle down to the budget minded manufacturers.
Yep, better chance of hell freezing over before we see a cheap, less than $10,000 4k DLP announced this fall. 4K DLP is only going to appear on 50k+ machines this year.

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post #14 of 26 Old 07-06-2014, 03:20 PM
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The major question is, where is the content going to come from? Assuming Epson and JVC may have something UHD/4K related in fall 2014, what HDMI chipset they are going to use? look at the fiasco with the AVR co's in the 4K BD thread. The hardware has to be relatively cooked this late in the year.

while not the best option just yet, at least Sony has something to hand out with the 600 / 1100. What are Epson and JVC going to do?
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post #15 of 26 Old 07-06-2014, 11:54 PM
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JVC has the great Redray which it uses at shows and to peddle the 4K big panel it made for AVAD in AVAD show rooms. Whoops, The Redray has kind of fizzled out as well as the distribution channel it championed. Maybe JVC will start using the Nuvola.

Sadly its now all about upscaling to 4K. Is 4K content even needed? Probably not at 8 bit, 4:2:0 60. What we need for content and displays is wider color spaces and longer bit lengths and higher chroma subsampling and better transfers from at least 4K real stuff. Who cares. We Sony boys have 4K content delivered by the puck. The potential is there from the short stuff buy for movies? And that's what they are peddling. Most of us haven't used their pucks in months. JVC doesn't need 4K sources to enter the market of true 4K projectors.

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post #16 of 26 Old 07-07-2014, 05:48 PM
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Right, they can be expected at Cedia to introduce two machines between about $6 to $7K and the same machine in black with a mount and a bulb for around $8K. These will be reflective LCOS or 4K or UHD machines.[IMG]http://*******/Prn9DS[/IMG] relatively normal lumens power.
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post #17 of 26 Old 07-07-2014, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't find where you want to take us on that link. would you please refine it.

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post #19 of 26 Old 07-08-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
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Broken link!

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post #20 of 26 Old 07-08-2014, 11:48 AM
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It was working last night. All it was, was a page allowing you to pre-order this projector. It was offered at the list price. The page had absolutely 0 information on the specs of the projector.
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post #21 of 26 Old 07-11-2014, 06:46 AM
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The latest info from the other thread is that this will be lit by a spinning phosphor lit by a very low powered blue laser. The blue light will hit the blue chip directly and not come from the spinning white wheel which will in turn emit white light from which the red and green beams will be extracted. It will be a 2K machine with e-shift to get one to fake 4K. Chip technology will be reflective LCD which is another word for LCOS. Machine will not ship until 2015 and this means what? People waiting, asking, WTF and then following Epson track history it may never come. I don't think that will happen this time but it will be a minimum of 6 months off and probably more like 9 but I don't know and I don't care.

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post #22 of 26 Old 07-25-2014, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
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The latest info from the other thread is that this will be lit by a spinning phosphor lit by a very low powered blue laser. The blue light will hit the blue chip directly and not come from the spinning white wheel which will in turn emit white light from which the red and green beams will be extracted. It will be a 2K machine with e-shift to get one to fake 4K. Chip technology will be reflective LCD which is another word for LCOS. Machine will not ship until 2015 and this means what? People waiting, asking, WTF and then following Epson track history it may never come. I don't think that will happen this time but it will be a minimum of 6 months off and probably more like 9 but I don't know and I don't care.
If this is true, I feel like handing in my Epson fanboy membership. Enough messing about already. Just give us a decent product we want at reasonable price.

Fine. I'll spend more and switch brands if this happens to be true.

Bah!
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post #23 of 26 Old 07-26-2014, 08:35 AM
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What exactly do you want from them. They will maintain their budget line of 1080p projectors with minor improvements to keep their fan boys happy. this is an attempt to aim for a higher price level customer with a projector that performs significantly better than their present line which really is quite good for the price.

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post #24 of 26 Old 07-26-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
..............

Epson's top of the line 2K HT machine is already about $7K. What? Say it isn't true. While most just consider there lower lumen machines sold in the $2K to $3K or so range, they also have the G6900, a high high lumen beast designed specifically for large (I said LARGE). If Krane's info is correct, they can be expected at Cedia to introduce two machines between about $6 to $7K and the same machine in black with a mount and a bulb for around $8K. These will be reflective LCOS or 4K or UHD machines. relatively normal lumens power. .....................
Art of projectorreviews.com has a video review posted for the Epson G6900WU at the following web link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbGtn...ure=youtu.be&a

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post #25 of 26 Old 08-10-2014, 07:09 AM
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According to a discussion going at the following German site (translated link below):
http://translate.google.com/translat...T4GZGN_enUS473


In Post #16 Kraine says (google translation):

"Right now it looks like that the new projectors will appear in this year NOT.
The laser lights are too strong. For Europe and USA there is no "license" because statutory provisions are not complied with. Epson looking for a solution."


If correct, that may impact what Epson has to offer for 2015.

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Last edited by Ron Jones; 08-10-2014 at 07:27 AM.
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post #26 of 26 Old 08-13-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
According to a discussion going at the following German site (translated link below):
http://translate.google.com/translat...T4GZGN_enUS473


In Post #16 Kraine says (google translation):

"Right now it looks like that the new projectors will appear in this year NOT.
The laser lights are too strong. For Europe and USA there is no "license" because statutory provisions are not complied with. Epson looking for a solution."


If correct, that may impact what Epson has to offer for 2015.
NEC uses a filter over its lens to comply with laser regulations. Perhaps Epson could do the same.

Here's a video of the NEC projector with filter.


Last edited by Deja Vu; 08-17-2014 at 11:28 AM.
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