2014 CEDIA: What LED/Laser Projectors are coming from Big Boys? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 57 Old 07-15-2014, 08:26 PM
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Too bad this never came to be. A 240hz 4kx2k laser light valve. 30k contrast.


http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...fps)_Projector
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post #32 of 57 Old 07-16-2014, 11:36 AM
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I for one am looking forward to what's coming up for a 2015 PJ list.
I was in the market about a year ago but dropped out as I had to adjust my buying priorities (other cr*p for the house)

Now I'm back, I could EITHER consider a reduced price end of line JVC later this year, or SEE what JVC is going to bring..

Native 4K for once, anyone? I've searched for rumors online and things are quite tight lipped to say the least.
Can anyone shed any light onto the 2015 rumor mill please?

Thanks in advance
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post #33 of 57 Old 07-16-2014, 12:28 PM
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I think we will see a 4K projector from sony with manual lens control etc at around $8K MSRP.

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post #34 of 57 Old 07-16-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Thanks for catching my typo. I hope to spend considerable time with one very soon. It will be interesting to see the contrast improvement with an aperture plate addition.

As for even with a blu ray source, it is only a 2K machine and there is no point in feeding it a higher resolution source. What the point is feeding it a true 2K DCI source. Its a DCI machine, that's why it costs so much and I think no matter how great it throws a blu ray source, the only point of the machine and investing in it is for very large screens with DCI source material. For a smaller screen, say less than 12 ft wide, the light is way more than one needs and no matter the small size of a fixed stop to cut it down and increase the contrast, the contrast won't approach what less expensive machines can throw. Its for the big boys who want say a 16 ft wide, unity gain screen, and a substantially better picture then they could see in the best commercial 2K theater. The color space is substantially wider and that to me is a primary point in going for a DCI machine, That and the ability to see the same sources as a commercial theater shows. Its not a purchase the hobbyist should stretch for. It fills a need at for a big boy what is a very reasonable price. At a noise level of 54 db, you need to isolate it from your media room or dedicated theater watching area. The lens must be selected for the application (throw distance and the screen gain already in place unless starting with a new screen).

Almost every projector out there shows a great blue ray image. The key is the set up, the room conditions, and the right size and gain screen. This means NO gain higher than unity. Not 1.1, certainly not 1.3. Not for this machine unless you are going for a 28 ft wide screen or so.
Not just for the 16' plus wide screens. Have a lot of customers with 12' wide scope screens that are low gain, that would love something like this, to be able to light up their screens in 3D. Think of the lumens it takes to light up a 12' wide 0.85 gain (woven) screen in 3D.

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post #35 of 57 Old 07-16-2014, 08:26 PM
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I stand corrected. I think use is is feasible for those with a 12 ft screen. However, I believe those that can shell out the $60K or so this projector will cost will likely have larger screens. A projection booth or hush box is required and a large part of the cost is because its a DCI machine and comes with a DCI server. It would I think be rather a waste to buy this machine and not watch DCI movies. If you are not going DCI feed, there are cheaper ways of getting 1080p high lumens and higher contrast than this beast. But DCI sources are available but not for the price of a Blu ray.

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post #36 of 57 Old 07-17-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I think we will see a 4K projector from sony with manual lens control etc at around $8K MSRP.
Interesting...Thanks for the feedback Mark
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post #37 of 57 Old 07-20-2014, 11:15 AM
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So why do they use a spinning phosphor wheel? Does the phosphor material lose phosphorescence if continuously lit and pulsing the laser creates too much flicker?
My guess is that it's to prevent the phosphor from overheating and resultant burn-in.

I imagine the actual phosphor area isn't very different than a large CRT's and that air cooling from the spinning is what's doing the trick.

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...Each spot of phosphor will be ignited....

Feel free to correct my limited knowledge.
Mark, the phosphor does not ignite nor does it burn, as that would consume it.

Phosphors emit light by a quantum process where when hit with radiation they emit photons.

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post #38 of 57 Old 07-20-2014, 04:39 PM
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The use here is unlike a CRT screen. The yellow phosphor must give off a continuous source of yellow light. Phosphors are not normally constantly on. So I would imagine the spinning wheel is also designed to have at least some phosphor on at all times and enough on to provide the needed lumens but I dunno.

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post #39 of 57 Old 07-20-2014, 11:09 PM
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What exactly is 3LCD reflective? Is it a generic LCOS? A DLA or SXRD? Epson's own developed version?
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post #40 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 05:04 AM
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Basically the light from the particular primary passes through the thickness of the chip, of course including the moving liquid crystals and reflects off a reflector on the inside chip side opposite from the side where it enters, and then passes through the liquid crystals again before it exits the chip from the surface it entered. This is simplistic but gives you the basics. Its all names for the same basic thing but there are variations such as the crystals, the reflective layer, the spacing of the crystals yada yada.

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post #41 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 05:25 AM
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Basically the light from the particular primary passes through the thickness of the chip, of course including the moving liquid crystals and reflects off a reflector on the inside chip side opposite from the side where it enters, and then passes through the liquid crystals again before it exits the chip from the surface it entered. This is simplistic but gives you the basics. Its all names for the same basic thing but there are variations such as the crystals, the reflective layer, the spacing of the crystals yada yada.
Is this developed by Epson? Or is it licensed DLA from JVC, or SXRD from Sony? I think there's some generic Chinese that Mitsubishi once used.

I found some literature saying it's called liquid crystal on quartz, LCOQ. Apparently Epson didnt have the balls to call it that.
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post #42 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 05:48 AM
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As I stated there a differences in implementation of the technology. just as LCD greatly improved through the years, reflective LCD has also improved. JVC manages to improve it most every year. There is no reason that a chip designer couldn't improve reflective LCD even more perhaps by making material changes in the materials used in the chip. What epson is doing? We have only what they say or will say. One thing is certain, whatever chip they are making or having made from them is expensive because its yields are evidently low.

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post #43 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 07:37 AM
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What exactly is 3LCD reflective? Is it a generic LCOS? A DLA or SXRD? Epson's own developed version?
To simplistically answer your question, it's Epson's marketing term for their implementation of LCoS. IMHO, their projectors were LCD-only for such a long time, they chose it so as to sound similar to "3LCD." But it's definitely LCoS.

There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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post #44 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 07:48 AM
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And implementation of any technology is the key to progress and improvement. LCOS is progressing unlike DLP which has reached performance stagnation chip wise. Epson I think is to be commended for trying to bring a better LCOS type chip to market. JVC is to be commended for continually improving their implementation. Sony is to be commended for bringing out the first consumer 4K Lcos type chip.

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post #45 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 09:10 AM
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What exactly is 3LCD reflective? ... Epson's own developed version?
yes

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post #46 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 09:22 AM
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That's how one gets plus 20K posts. Keep the answer short and to the point.

As being used by Epson it is, but any manufacturer could advertise or specify that its technology was 3 LCD reflective and then trademark their own name for its particular implementation.

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post #47 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 01:51 PM
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That's how one gets plus 20K posts.
yes

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post #48 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 08:06 PM
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That's how one gets plus 20K posts. Keep the answer short and to the point.

As being used by Epson it is, but any manufacturer could advertise or specify that its technology was 3 LCD reflective and then trademark their own name for its particular implementation.

If I had not restarted from zero in 2011, I would not be too far behind you two.

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post #49 of 57 Old 07-21-2014, 08:12 PM
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post #50 of 57 Old 07-22-2014, 08:58 AM
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Let the spam-fest of posts begin!
It's July, not a whole lot of things we can talk about.

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post #51 of 57 Old 07-22-2014, 10:28 AM
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And implementation of any technology is the key to progress and improvement. LCOS is progressing unlike DLP which has reached performance stagnation chip wise.
That tends to happen when you pull all your development resources. Though it will be interesting to see what sort of performance consumer 4K DMDs bring to the table.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #52 of 57 Old 07-23-2014, 08:12 PM
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It's July, not a whole lot of things we can talk about.
How about where are you taking me to dinner at Cedia?

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post #53 of 57 Old 07-24-2014, 04:26 AM
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There is a time to ask and then there are times when one should tell. You are a bright boy, KY is not the culinary capital of the world.

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post #54 of 57 Old 07-24-2014, 07:14 AM
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How about where are you taking me to dinner at Cedia?
Be sure you get there this year. Tomorrow I am going to be in Florida for the day. Flying down to see Alan and the Laser 3C projector.

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post #55 of 57 Old 07-24-2014, 08:06 PM
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I am flying this year, so unless the plane goes down I should be good.

Mark,
Your driving buddy is thinking of a meet the second or third week of Oct.

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post #56 of 57 Old 07-26-2014, 06:43 AM
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I am flying this year, so unless the plane goes down I should be good.

Mark,
Your driving buddy is thinking of a meet the second or third week of Oct.
See you there. I will shoot you my number again. I am sitting in the Tampa airport right now, waiting for a return flight.

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post #57 of 57 Old 07-26-2014, 08:16 AM
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Are you on a stretcher? I assume you were knocked hard on your posterior by the image thrown by the spinning phosphor wheel/laser projector. At least do you have a pillow strapped on it? Did you watch any DCI content? As you know, it can be ordered without the DCI server at a savings of around $8K which makes a lot of sense for those not committed to getting and paying for DCI content.

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