Sim2 New M150s & M120 3D LED DLP Projectors- - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 42 Old 07-26-2014, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Sim2 New M150s & M120 3D LED DLP Projectors-

Looks like Sim2 have released a successor to the M150 the M150s using the DC .95 Chips.

http://www.sim2usa.com/home/us/content/m150s-0

Also they have released the smaller M120 under $20k-

http://www.sim2.com/home/en/content/m120

Still not 4K though until maybe next year?

Quote:
"The current M.150 is an LED projector with outstanding video images and, for other reasons too, it has been chosen also for COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS.

Its perfect colorimetry, compliance to the Adobe 98 standard (that colour standard of the professional picture cameras), or the professional Cinema colour standard, on top of the regular REC 709 (Bluray) allowed this model to be chosen and used by post production and colour grading companies as well as professional photographers.
The image quality, the low cost of ownership and the long life of the illumination system (with the possibility to use the M.150 for 10 hours a day for 11 years) allowed the M.150 to be used also in flight simulators and CAD applications

The new M.150 S is crafted using hand-selected optical and electronic components, whilst its final assembly follows closely the one used when creating a (very limited edition) FUORISERIE (a projector world-recognized as having the finest build quality on the market). Sharing the same DNA as its illustrious sibling, M.150 S sees improved performance and features over the previous M.150.
The new model features an slightly higher brightness due to LED of latest generation and selection reaching a brightness as high as a lamp based projector of 1,800 lumen, Moreover it features a perfect colorimetry coming from the choice made by Sim2 engineers of the emission wave length of the single LEDs. Moreover there are a number of adjustments (SW and HW) to make the projector working definitely better.

As a result of the extensive development work carried out on the M.150 platform, our engineers have created a second new LED projector:
The NEW M.120 offers a performance close to that of the original M.150, in a form factor that is familiar to all of our customers, but at a more interesting price point. The brightness as high as a lamp based projector of 1,500 lumen, makes the M.120 the perfect choice for cinema screen up to 120".
Deja Vu likes this.

Last edited by Spizz; 07-26-2014 at 03:50 PM.
Spizz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 42 Old 07-27-2014, 09:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked: 245
Thanks for this -- very helpful to know what's happening with the top-of-the-line LED projectors and that there are improvements coming.
Deja Vu is online now  
post #3 of 42 Old 07-27-2014, 10:26 AM
Member
 
mks_95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jeddah
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
great news


i hope some of Sim2 M150 owners tells us how black it can get..
mks_95 is offline  
post #4 of 42 Old 07-28-2014, 06:00 AM
Haw
Senior Member
 
Haw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Yes, would like to see how much better contrast it has compared with the Optoma HD90 /91 since both use dynamic dimming and not physical iris.
Haw is offline  
post #5 of 42 Old 08-01-2014, 09:16 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
me too,would like to see how much better contrast it has compared with the Optoma HD90 /91 since both use [IMG]http://*******/OSI1pM[/IMG]dynamic dimming and not physical iris.thanks for your sharing
jianlossfei is offline  
post #6 of 42 Old 08-01-2014, 11:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 5,729
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 496
World's better. The native contrast of Sim2's light engine is already much higher than what the Optoma's dynamic contrast can do.

Last edited by Seegs108; 08-01-2014 at 09:34 PM.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #7 of 42 Old 08-14-2014, 04:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Armand07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Have just installed and calibrated a M.150 S. I feel overall performance has improved quite a lot and of course the increased light output contributes a lot (now 1200 lumens which according to SIM2 is equivalent to 1800 lumens on a bulb projector, this because of their Super PureLED technology).

This is just a great projector. Earlier I would pick a Nero 3D-2 over a M.150, but not so I think with the new S model. It is just a great projector. It also measured extremely well out of the box, best I have ever seen. It seems to be so linear that to go the extra step with 3D LUT calibration perhaps isn´t necessary with this model.

If you can´t afford the Superlumis, or don´t have a very large screen, I can´t think of a better projector at the moment.
Craig Peer and Yzfbossman like this.
Armand07 is online now  
post #8 of 42 Old 08-14-2014, 05:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 5,729
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 496
Do you have any contrast measurements? I'd be interested in hearing what the native and dynamic contrast measurements are for this new unit.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #9 of 42 Old 08-15-2014, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Armand07- How is the noise on the M150s as most reviews of the M150 commented on the loud liquid cooling system. Have they fixed this? Any other changes besides brightness? Same as above ref contrast. Also any pictures?
Spizz is offline  
post #10 of 42 Old 08-15-2014, 01:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 5,729
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 496
The noise that most complain about is not exclusive to the Sim2 units. The noise comes from the power draw that the LEDs demand when the light output intensifies in brighter content. There needs to be extensive sound dampening to get rid of the noise. I think with a liquid cooling solution, heavy sound dampening is a possibility unlike that of the heat sink fan solution that some of the other LEDs units use to cool the LEDs. Hopefully Sim2 have opted for a better sound dampening solution this time around.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Crazy Projector Journey!
Seegs108 is online now  
post #11 of 42 Old 08-15-2014, 11:32 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
damon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
If anyone could PM me a price point for the M.120 I would appreciate it. Trying to help a friend with his options.
Have call in to AV Science as well for their pricing info.

Mark Conner
damon is offline  
post #12 of 42 Old 08-15-2014, 03:59 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 20,973
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1075 Post(s)
Liked: 769
Its not on the current Sim2 price list. The last one I saw was dated May and I think there will be a new one around Cedia time.

Mark. Its been a long time since you last posted.

Mark has been a long time CRT guy and had a two projector CRT blend system. We have attended HT parties in VA together and he was a house guest of mine a long time ago. He still remembers my driving and I doubt he has recovered from it.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #13 of 42 Old 08-16-2014, 07:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
Armand07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Do you have any contrast measurements? I'd be interested in hearing what the native and dynamic contrast measurements are for this new unit.
I am not sure. According to SIM2 in order to measure the LED light output you need a special probe. But the contrast seems anyway to be very good and far better than what the human eye can perceive anyway. The black level seems to be some of the best I have seen.
Armand07 is online now  
post #14 of 42 Old 09-02-2014, 07:47 AM
Member
 
Qualunquemente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post
The black level seems to be some of the best I have seen.
Better then latest JVCs ???
Qualunquemente is offline  
post #15 of 42 Old 09-02-2014, 12:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Armand07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
Better then latest JVCs ???
I guess not, the JVCs excel in black level, but the M.150 S will at least be very close, but most importantly better in every other aspect I can think of.
Armand07 is online now  
post #16 of 42 Old 09-02-2014, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 5,729
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post
I guess not, the JVCs excel in black level, but the M.150 S will at least be very close, but most importantly better in every other aspect I can think of.

The Sim2 LED units don't have a mode where the LEDs give a perfect black level? All the other LED models I've owned (4 other models) have had this mode. In this DI mode you achieve a perfect black level. Better than a JVC.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #17 of 42 Old 09-02-2014, 12:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
Armand07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The Sim2 LED units don't have a mode where the LEDs give a perfect black level? All the other LED models I've owned (4 other models) have had this mode. In this DI mode you achieve a perfect black level. Better than a JVC.
Possible. I don´t know. But it sure looks good!
Armand07 is online now  
post #18 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 01:32 AM
Member
 
Qualunquemente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The Sim2 LED units don't have a mode where the LEDs give a perfect black level? All the other LED models I've owned (4 other models) have had this mode. In this DI mode you achieve a perfect black level. Better than a JVC.
Well it will probably shut-off leds in presence of a full black screen (like my Vango does). But the black level that really cares is the one in very low apl scenes like the one with Morgan Freeman smoking in the dark seen in "Oblivion".
Qualunquemente is offline  
post #19 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 01:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 5,729
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
Well it will probably shut-off leds in presence of a full black screen (like my Vango does). But the black level that really cares is the one in very low apl scenes like the one with Morgan Freeman smoking in the dark seen in "Oblivion".
You're confusing black level (which is a measurement of a full black frame) and intra-scene contrast which is something calculated knowing the on/off and ANSI contrast combined with a known gamma. The fact remains an LED projector can do a perfect black level if desired. Low APL performanxe still dominates on a JVC projector. This is why a black level on a DI enabled projector never tells the full truth about contrast performance.

Last edited by Seegs108; 09-03-2014 at 01:47 AM.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #20 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 06:17 AM
Member
 
Qualunquemente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post
I am not sure. According to SIM2 in order to measure the LED light output you need a special probe. But the contrast seems anyway to be very good and far better than what the human eye can perceive anyway. The black level seems to be some of the best I have seen.
I also would like very much to know the calibrated lumens output.
A normal probe like xrite i1 or Spider should be fine, Sim2 only claims that led lumens are more significant because they can generate deeper saturations then uhp lamps.

Last edited by Qualunquemente; 09-03-2014 at 06:21 AM.
Qualunquemente is offline  
post #21 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
You're confusing black level (which is a measurement of a full black frame) and intra-scene contrast which is something calculated knowing the on/off and ANSI contrast combined with a known gamma. The fact remains an LED projector can do a perfect black level if desired. Low APL performanxe still dominates on a JVC projector. This is why a black level on a DI enabled projector never tells the full truth about contrast performance.
I completely agree. I find the full on/off vs. ANSI contrast discussion fascinating. I've owned a Sony G90 CRT that was gamma corrected to do and hold total black as long as the scene required. Since the G90 was a CRT it had relatively low ANSI contrast ratio (I think around 130:1). I presently own a DLP 3D 1080p laser/LED hybrid projector with a relatively low on/off C.R. (2,000:1) and a high ANSI contrast ratio (800:1). Personally, if given the choice, I'd take huge on/off with low ANSI over low on/off and high ANSI C.R. What's interesting is that once you added some white (or a bright object) to the G90's image it seemed to contaminate or wash it out slightly. When the same "white" or bright object is added to the DLP's image it seems to significantly enhance the black level. For example, the space scenes in Gravity look extremely good with the DLP -- the black of space looks convincingly black. Obviously what we want is extremely high on/off and ANSI C.R. I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy my wants but I suspect a projector with a 20,000:1 native on/off C.R. and a 1000:1 ANSI C.R. might do it.
Deja Vu is online now  
post #22 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 06:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I completely agree. I find the full on/off vs. ANSI contrast discussion fascinating. I've owned a Sony G90 CRT that was gamma corrected to do and hold total black as long as the scene required. Since the G90 was a CRT it had relatively low ANSI contrast ratio (I think around 130:1). I presently own a DLP 3D 1080p laser/LED hybrid projector with a relatively low on/off C.R. (2,000:1) and a high ANSI contrast ratio (800:1). Personally, if given the choice, I'd take huge on/off with low ANSI over low on/off and high ANSI C.R. What's interesting is that once you added some white (or a bright object) to the G90's image it seemed to contaminate or wash it out slightly. When the same "white" or bright object is added to the DLP's image it seems to significantly enhance the black level. For example, the space scenes in Gravity look extremely good with the DLP -- the black of space looks convincingly black. Obviously what we want is extremely high on/off and ANSI C.R. I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy my wants but I suspect a projector with a 20,000:1 native on/off C.R. and a 1000:1 ANSI C.R. might do it.
The nearest you can get to that number is the VW1100 with up to 18000:1 native on/off and about 600:1 Ansi contrast.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #23 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 06:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
The nearest you can get to that number is the VW1100 with up to 18000:1 native on/off and about 600:1 Ansi contrast.
And no doubt it looks spectacular. When Sony adds a laser or laser/LED light source to it I'll be interested. I was using my laser/LED hybrid yesterday when there was a power outage for a few seconds -- no worries and it confirmed, at least for me, why my next HT projector will be lampless.
Deja Vu is online now  
post #24 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 12:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 5,729
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
The nearest you can get to that number is the VW1100 with up to 18000:1 native on/off and about 600:1 Ansi contrast.
You'll need to be at farthest throw and iris closed all the way to get the on/off that high. Also, because the Sony uses an iris in the lens, when you close it to get better on/off, ANSI contrast takes a hit. So you can't have both on the Sony. This is the reason the Sim2 Lumis line has it's static iris farther back in the light engine. When you close it it doesn't have back splatter of light which would reduce ANSI contrast like on the Sony.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Crazy Projector Journey!
Seegs108 is online now  
post #25 of 42 Old 09-03-2014, 03:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
You'll need to be at farthest throw and iris closed all the way to get the on/off that high. Also, because the Sony uses an iris in the lens, when you close it to get better on/off, ANSI contrast takes a hit. So you can't have both on the Sony. This is the reason the Sim2 Lumis line has it's static iris farther back in the light engine. When you close it it doesn't have back splatter of light which would reduce ANSI contrast like on the Sony.
That is why I wrote up to 18000:1 and about 600:1.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #26 of 42 Old 09-06-2014, 01:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 31
I wish something similar to the m.120 was available under $10k... Would buy for sure. Seems with DLP it is either under 3k, or 18k+. There is very little in between, which is a shame.
Ruined is online now  
post #27 of 42 Old 09-08-2014, 07:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,852
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 79
The Cine LED 1000 can be had well under $10k. Very well under.
hifiaudio2 is online now  
post #28 of 42 Old 09-09-2014, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 6,460
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 765 Post(s)
Liked: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
The Cine LED 1000 can be had well under $10k. Very well under.

We have one DPI M Vision Cine 1000 LED projector left in stock in fact - call us if interested.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is online now  
post #29 of 42 Old 09-09-2014, 11:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
Armand07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
According to my calibrator the M.150 S produced about 14 FL on my 0.8 gain dnp Supernova screen. I have a 124" 2.40:1 screen but the measurement was done when displaying a 16:9 image about 97-98" in size. That is quite good I think and with a 1.0 gain screen you would get even more.
Armand07 is online now  
post #30 of 42 Old 09-09-2014, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post
According to my calibrator the M.150 S produced about 14 FL on my 0.8 gain dnp Supernova screen. I have a 124" 2.40:1 screen but the measurement was done when displaying a 16:9 image about 97-98" in size. That is quite good I think and with a 1.0 gain screen you would get even more.
Yes, 25% more...

If the gain is accurate.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema


Last edited by Andreas21; 09-10-2014 at 01:58 PM.
Andreas21 is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP
Gear in this thread - M150s by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off