JVC 2014 e-shift ... or wait for PURE 4K projector? - AVS Forum
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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JVC 2014 e-shift ... or wait for PURE 4K projector?

opinions?
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:22 AM
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I think the main issue that most will run into is the price of a 4K JVC. My guess is they will only offer one true 4K model and it will take the place of the top of the line model including it's price point. I'm sure after a year or two they'll offer a cheaper version but I think the first year we're going to see a 4K model to compete with Sony's 600ES in both performance and price.

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Old 08-08-2014, 11:27 AM
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And the big question is whether there will be a true 4k projector from JVC this year or if they will wait yet another year. I sure hope it's this year and I hope it is brighter as well. We should know in about a month.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:47 AM
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That's true. JVC might not even release one this year. Plus there's hardly any 4K content out yet anyways. There isn't a 4K blu-ray standard yet also and, just like with 1080p blu-ray, it's going to take a couple years for the format to build a decent library of content. It's still a perfectly fine time to buy a 1080p projector/flat panel.

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Old 08-08-2014, 11:55 AM
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I can wait a few more years for 4k. I am enjoying the picture on my JVC 4910 so much that i cant imagine a lesser quality budget 4k projector will be that much better.

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Old 08-08-2014, 01:17 PM
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I can wait a few more years for 4k. I am enjoying the picture on my JVC 4910 so much that i cant imagine a lesser quality budget 4k projector will be that much better.

Watching some really well mastered movies lately - Wolf of Wall Street was one, re - watching Cloud Atlas with friends was another, left me thinking that current Blu Rays and projectors are capable of throwing an outstanding picture on the screen now. I'd get a good projector like the JVC 4910 and wait for 4K to mature and settle out. And enjoy a great picture in your theater while you are waiting. Life is too short !
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:23 PM
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With the latest rumors putting 4K Blu-ray at holiday 2015 AT THE EARLIEST, there really isn't much reason for them to launch a native 4K this year. But who knows! If they do at least we'll be into the second generation by the time there is any real content to watch on it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gpctv02 View Post
opinions?
The question you have to ask yourself is do you want a 4K projector? If you want a 4K projector, wait. I personally would not buy any of the current 4K machines (real 4K ala Sony or pseudo 4K ala JVC) since it's possible, if not likely that none of them will be able to support the real 4K feature set, specifically wider gamuts and higher bit depths. There are just way, way to many technologies/options floating around regarding future 4K standards (wide gamuts, higher bit depths, high frame rates, HDR, etc) to have any confidence whatsoever that any "4K" machine you buy today will really be compatible in a year or two.

That said, if you are looking for a projector, it's really hard to beat the JVCs for overall quality with currently available content. I'd have no reservations buying a current generation JVC, I would just understand/expect that when 4K really gets here (not just streaming experiments) you'll likely have to upgrade to fully support it.

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Old 08-08-2014, 02:42 PM
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The question you have to ask yourself is do you want a 4K projector? If you want a 4K projector, wait. I personally would not buy any of the current 4K machines (real 4K ala Sony or pseudo 4K ala JVC) since it's possible, if not likely that none of them will be able to support the real 4K feature set, specifically wider gamuts and higher bit depths. There are just way, way to many technologies/options floating around regarding future 4K standards (wide gamuts, higher bit depths, high frame rates, HDR, etc) to have any confidence whatsoever that any "4K" machine you buy today will really be compatible in a year or two.

That said, if you are looking for a projector, it's really hard to beat the JVCs for overall quality with currently available content. I'd have no reservations buying a current generation JVC, I would just understand/expect that when 4K really gets here (not just streaming experiments) you'll likely have to upgrade to fully support it.

I believe this is true. I also believe that by the time 4K is " ready for prime time " with enough content to make the switch, you'll want to replace any projector you bought this year anyway. My personal guess is 2020 will be the year I switch over.

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Old 08-08-2014, 02:47 PM
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I can answer your question easily. Buy a 4k projector to watch TV or movies in 4K. If there is none, then there is no point at the moment
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:05 PM
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A lot of people who own a Sony 4K projector make a good point in why owning that projector is best for them right now and it has little to do with the fact that it has a native 4K resolution. It's mostly the excellent lens, extreme brightness, unusually high (for LCoS) ANSI contrast, and the best non-DLP 3D experience currently available. Unfortunately, most of these things probably won't make their way into a JVC projector. I'd make a wager right now that we won't see the brightness as high, ANSI contrast anywhere close, or even lens quality anywhere near the 1000ES. JVC may be able to improve their 3D performance though. The 1000ES had the budget for the lens and bulb/light engine/chassis design to deliver this kind of overall performance. The 4K JVC, especially if they don't release one this year, won't have the manufacturing budget to deliver a product as well rounded as the 1000ES.

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Old 08-08-2014, 03:36 PM
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Yup, if you're buying a machine today, buy it because it's the best machine for the job today. And today that is almost exclusively 1080p content. If that machine happens to have a 4k resolution, be it real or "pseudo", so be it. I guess in a nutshell, 4K is about the last feature I would consider when choosing machines. If one's 4K and the other not, and that's the tiebreaker, then sure, go for 4K, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get anything 4K today.

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Old 08-08-2014, 03:55 PM
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The question you have to ask yourself is do you want a 4K projector? If you want a 4K projector, wait. I personally would not buy any of the current 4K machines (real 4K ala Sony or pseudo 4K ala JVC) since it's possible, if not likely that none of them will be able to support the real 4K feature set, specifically wider gamuts and higher bit depths. There are just way, way to many technologies/options floating around regarding future 4K standards (wide gamuts, higher bit depths, high frame rates, HDR, etc) to have any confidence whatsoever that any "4K" machine you buy today will really be compatible in a year or two.

That said, if you are looking for a projector, it's really hard to beat the JVCs for overall quality with currently available content. I'd have no reservations buying a current generation JVC, I would just understand/expect that when 4K really gets here (not just streaming experiments) you'll likely have to upgrade to fully support it.
Well said. I'm quite happy with my RS4810 and if I upgrade to a new model this fall, it will be because of overall PQ improvement and nothing to do with 4K.

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Old 08-08-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yup, if you're buying a machine today, buy it because it's the best machine for the job today. And today that is almost exclusively 1080p content. If that machine happens to have a 4k resolution, be it real or "pseudo", so be it. I guess in a nutshell, 4K is about the last feature I would consider when choosing machines. If one's 4K and the other not, and that's the tiebreaker, then sure, go for 4K, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get anything 4K today.
That's how I think of it as well. When I was just about to buy the Sony 6000 the fact it was native 4K figured very little into why I wanted it: it was the added brightness, lens quality, excellent scaling, good 3D and overall image quality that it purportedly put out, that got me interested.

Same with whatever JVC puts out this year. I think it would be cool if they put out a Native 4k just to see the price point and find out if any other aspects of the projector would be altered or upgraded. But an upgrade to 4K resolution only wouldn't be compelling in of itself to me.

I'm not expecting to be tempted by anything JVC does with the 2015 models. But then again, that's what I thought about the 2014 models and they surprised me.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:28 PM
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JVC may not come out with 4k this year, but they may have a laser/led light engine. If that is the case, then it may be worth waiting for.

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Old 08-08-2014, 10:32 PM
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how long you willing to wait?


I bought the x35 last year, and even that is enough for me to wait the 5-10yrs until there's affordable UHD projectors and real UHD content(not just some high resolution, but bit-starved online crap)


if you're in the market for a projector soon, I'd absolutely go the e-shift route now. I simply don't think there's a good reason to buy into anything UHD right now. it's far too early, we don't even have a 100% finalized idea of what UHD will be, aside from the resolution.


if, on the other hand, you're not really in need of a new projector, and you can wait 5 or more years, then might as well wait. buying an eshift projector now just delays how soon you'll be able to afford a true UHD projector later.

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Old 08-09-2014, 02:10 AM
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There are affordable 4K projectors now. The word affordability used by itself means nothing. Its meaning is relevant if one knows lets call it the electronic poverty level of the user. Some here will actually occupy a worse electronic poverty level in 5 years. Being retired that is the case for me.

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Old 08-09-2014, 02:25 AM
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Very true, Mark. Another thing about "value" is having the context to understand why there are some projectors that cost north of $10,000. Value, just like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Projectors aren't like flat panel televisions. Being niche, there are few examples of economies of scale in this market. JVC is one of the exceptions and is the reason they can bring a $3500 projector out with PQ far higher than basically anything in it's price class and rival PQ costing 3x or more. Some will "value" more what a higher priced unit can bring in terms of hardware, picture quality and feature set more than simply having a higher resolution projector at dirt cheap prices. But higher resolution doesn't mean higher PQ and therefore I think it's value is actually less than what others would argue it has. A good example of this is the Seiki 4K flat panels. Sure, they're 4K but the picture looks like garbage in comparison to most other 1080p sets. A cheap 4K projector will be the same thing compared to most of the mid-higher end 1080p units.

Also unlike flat panels, some of the parts will never be cheap. I'm of course talking about lens quality. This is why the Sony 1000/1100ES will likely not be matched in terms of PQ for a LONG time in the 4K world. This high lens quality does wonders in terms of not only clarity and sharpness, but also contrast performance. This excellent lens quality will not be seen on sub $10000 projectors (as we've already seen with the $15000 600ES) and will of course mean it won't be able to trump the 1000ES in terms of overall PQ. Other than a major increase in contrast from Sony, I don't see a reason for current 1000ES owners to sell their units. The 4K JVC model, whenever it comes, will have better on/off contrast most likely but other portions of PQ will be better on the 1000ES still. I think the 1000ES will have the most staying power of any 4K projector coming out soon. The one issue it might have down the road is compatibility issues with future content formats (4K BD for example) but I'm sure Sony will make sure most of those features will be supported by the current 4K machines they have. For 24p material they already handle higher bit-depths and higher chroma sampling rates so these units are already "future proof" in one sense. Higher than 24fps film material is extremely rare so I don't see that as an issue with the current Sony 4K machines.

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Old 08-09-2014, 07:29 AM
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I agree 100%. When I bought my 1000ES (now converted to a 1100ES by Sony) I was fortunate to be able to afford it. My wife saw a 1000ES in our HT and after one look said you have to buy one of these for yourself (she actually said for us). I got a great price because I was doing some work for sony and was fortunate to be able to afford it. Wive's often affect the meaning of the word affordability as well.

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Old 08-09-2014, 11:51 AM
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considering the original cost of this 4K monster back in the day, the VW1100 is a bargain.

wolfgang's setup continues to be be one of the most impressive theaters i've seen on the forum. it's proof positive that size does matter.

regarding the OP, it looks like he has an Epson 8100 so a jump to a mid-range JVC would be a great upgrade.

In a few years, we'll likely see the same range we now have with 1080P projectors. Today we can buy a sub-1K 1080P projector or a 60K Super Lumis 1080P. They're all 1080P right? it's the sum of the parts and the reason why some folks will spend more for the extra features/performance.

good glass isn't cheap but some argued that the Sony flagship lens shouldn't cost as much as it does. just look at some higher end photography lenses, it's enough to cause a skipped heartbeat. even used, some are in the stratosphere. Sony has done an outstanding job with the ARC lens. Clearly resolving miniscule 8pt windows fonts on a dense 3840x2160 PC desktop on all 4 corners of my 142" is an impressive feat, if only to impress the pixel peepers.
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Old 08-09-2014, 05:11 PM
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That's true. JVC might not even release one this year. Plus there's hardly any 4K content out yet anyways. There isn't a 4K blu-ray standard yet also and, just like with 1080p blu-ray, it's going to take a couple years for the format to build a decent library of content. It's still a perfectly fine time to buy a 1080p projector/flat panel.
DirecTV is planning an all 4K channel later this year - albeit you'll need a new satellite HDDVR that can handle the higher bandwidth. So they are banking that there will at least be enough programming to run this 24-7.

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Old 08-09-2014, 05:44 PM
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DirecTV is planning an all 4K channel later this year - albeit you'll need a new satellite HDDVR that can handle the higher bandwidth. So they are banking that there will at least be enough programming to run this 24-7.

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Directv is just offering on-demand 4k later this year. They said a 4k channel won't become available until 2016.
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Old 08-09-2014, 05:47 PM
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There are affordable 4K projectors now. The word affordability used by itself means nothing. Its meaning is relevant if one knows lets call it the electronic poverty level of the user. Some here will actually occupy a worse electronic poverty level in 5 years. Being retired that is the case for me.
Well if you think $15,000 for a projector is affordable you must be loaded
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:03 PM
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Because I had done work for Sony, I got a much better price than that. And I sold a couple of older projectors and I had a bunch of sales credits (spiffs) with Sony (they no longer do spiffs). I think I shelled out of my wallet (after the money I got for the older projectors) after everything only about $3K.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:20 PM
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Well if you think $15,000 for a projector is affordable you must be loaded
and this is coming from a guy with over 50grand worth of speakers...(sorry if I'm undervaluing them )


I could rebuild my entire system with 15k and still have enough left over for snacks

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Old 08-09-2014, 09:51 PM
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the local best buy has the new 4k Samsung 78 inch curved set on display and the picture is awesome. I wonder how much better this picture is than one from the sony 1100 pj?????? There is no way a pj could throw a picture like that is there? So much clarity and pop.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:55 PM
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the local best buy has the new 4k Samsung 78 inch curved set on display and the picture is awesome. I wonder how much better this picture is than one from the sony 1100 pj?????? There is no way a pj could throw a picture like that is there? So much clarity and pop.
I have a feeling this comment is going to take a lot of flak. There's one on display at my local Best Buy too. I will simply say that your opinion is not true. In fact, there are many 1080p projectors out there that will blow away the Samsung's image and they'll be images far larger than the Samsung's.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:34 PM
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8 grand, wow... if that was OLED it would be interesting, it would look relatively small next to my 142".


78 inch 16x9 vs. 142 inch 16x9




it looks like Sony is coming out with a similar sized, curved competitor to be announced @ IFA

http://www.cnet.com/news/sony-bows-curved-4k-tv/
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:26 PM
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the local best buy has the new 4k Samsung 78 inch curved set on display and the picture is awesome. I wonder how much better this picture is than one from the sony 1100 pj?????? There is no way a pj could throw a picture like that is there? So much clarity and pop.
granted I haven't seen either that tv or that projector, but based on what I have seen, I would fully expect the sony projector to be better.


personally, I haven't seen an edgelit led that even came close to the quality of a mid range projector, let along a high end one. of course, in a room suited for projection.

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