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post #1 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Data Projector Advice - 720p or 1080p for Text Readability?

What do you think of the http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-FH31W.htm for a projector that will be 20-30 feet away from the screen, and we will be using mostly power point, and other text presentations?

How far should this projector be with a 120" or 130" screen?
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post #2 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 01:12 PM
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at school we used 600x400 resolution projectors and they look just fine for text. most have been upgraded with 1024x768(i think?) and there's one or two in the tech wing that are full 1080p. for the purpose of ppt presentations the resolution is pretty moot imo.


unless you're going to be reading small text, but generally a ppt presentation will have huge text that's easily read from across the room, and you don't need 1080p for that.


for presentation purposes i would focus on lumens, bulb life, and placement flexibility.


according to the calculator, that projector should be positioned between about 13-20feet for a 130" diagonal 16:9 screen. and that would get you between 81 and 58ftl with a 1,0 gain screen. otherwise known as retina burning bright, haha. that would certainly be plenty for presentations in a conference room type setting. i think the ones we use at school are about 2000lumens max(though i often turn mine down to a more accurate setting, cause I'm like that, haha) and it works fine on a 70-80" screen.

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post #3 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
at school we used 600x400 resolution projectors and they look just fine for text. most have been upgraded with 1024x768(i think?) and there's one or two in the tech wing that are full 1080p. for the purpose of ppt presentations the resolution is pretty moot imo.


unless you're going to be reading small text, but generally a ppt presentation will have huge text that's easily read from across the room, and you don't need 1080p for that.


for presentation purposes i would focus on lumens, bulb life, and placement flexibility.


according to the calculator, that projector should be positioned between about 13-20feet for a 130" diagonal 16:9 screen. and that would get you between 81 and 58ftl with a 1,0 gain screen. otherwise known as retina burning bright, haha. that would certainly be plenty for presentations in a conference room type setting. i think the ones we use at school are about 2000lumens max(though i often turn mine down to a more accurate setting, cause I'm like that, haha) and it works fine on a 70-80" screen.
It's actually a big open space, 52ft deep, 30 feet across. Ceiling is 108".

According to http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony...eflashipromise - since we have ambient light, the best placement is 15' for 130"?
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Originally Posted by vangeliss View Post
It's actually a big open space, 52ft deep, 30 feet across. Ceiling is 108".

According to http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony...eflashipromise - since we have ambient light, the best placement is 15' for 130"?
the brightest will be at the 12'7" throw distance(closest is brightest, furthest is best contrast), but that may not be the 'best' place. it seems like it'll be plenty bright no matter where you put it, so I think you'll have some flexibility there if you need it.


in all honesty, my only reservation is that it seems to be a lot more than what you actually need. I'm sure it'll work for your situation, but I think a 3000lumen 'business class' projector for 1/4 the price will work too.

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the brightest will be at the 12'7" throw distance(closest is brightest, furthest is best contrast), but that may not be the 'best' place. it seems like it'll be plenty bright no matter where you put it, so I think you'll have some flexibility there if you need it.


in all honesty, my only reservation is that it seems to be a lot more than what you actually need. I'm sure it'll work for your situation, but I think a 3000lumen 'business class' projector for 1/4 the price will work too.
I agree, I just haven't been able to find any that are high quality. Do you have any recommendations?
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post #6 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vangeliss View Post
What do you think of the http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-FH31W.htm for a projector that will be 20-30 feet away from the screen, and we will be using mostly power point, and other text presentations?

How far should this projector be with a 120" or 130" screen?
The most common resolution for business and classroom projectors is 1280 x 800 with a 16:10 aspect ratio. These work OK for most PowerPoint presentations and for projecting Word documents. 8 pt. text is legible with most of these projectors, but is too small to be practical for viewers to easily read unless they are seated fairly near the screen . High resolution business projectors, either 1080p or 1920 x 1200 resolution will appear sharper but are probably beyond what it necessary for most business needs.

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post #7 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 04:39 PM
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I agree, I just haven't been able to find any that are high quality. Do you have any recommendations?
we've used mostly various Epson projectors at school, and they've been fine imo.


you may even want to consider bulb life as one of the deciding factors, and the price of replacement bulbs too.


this is one of those times where I'd probably decide who I was going to buy from first, see what brands they offer, and then go from there. I'm sure Epson, benq, canon, and a half dozen other brands have a model that will work for you.


is this being used for business presentations where you really want to impress clients? or more along the lines of a casual presentation or education purposes where the ppl in the room don't really care what projector you have. just trying to determine what kind of 'quality' you are looking for. we put 3000-4000hrs on the Epson's each year, I had the bulb replaced twice, projector still works fine. so reliability on them is fine. but they aren't exactly the kind of projector that you look at and think, "wow, this company must be doing well"...

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post #8 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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The most common resolution for business and classroom projectors is 1280 x 800 with a 16:10 aspect ratio. These work OK of most PowerPoint presentations and for projecting Word documents. 8 pt. text is legible with most of these projectors, but is too small to be practical for viewers to easily read unless they are seated fairly near the screen . High resolution business projectors, either 1080p or 1920 x 1200 resolution will appear sharper but are probably beyond what it necessary for most business needs.
This projector setup will also be utilized for viewing movies and games on rare occasions. Getting 1080P+ would not hinder it's business ability, correct?
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
we've used mostly various Epson projectors at school, and they've been fine imo.


you may even want to consider bulb life as one of the deciding factors, and the price of replacement bulbs too.


this is one of those times where I'd probably decide who I was going to buy from first, see what brands they offer, and then go from there. I'm sure Epson, benq, canon, and a half dozen other brands have a model that will work for you.


is this being used for business presentations where you really want to impress clients? or more along the lines of a casual presentation or education purposes where the ppl in the room don't really care what projector you have. just trying to determine what kind of 'quality' you are looking for. we put 3000-4000hrs on the Epson's each year, I had the bulb replaced twice, projector still works fine. so reliability on them is fine. but they aren't exactly the kind of projector that you look at and think, "wow, this company must be doing well"...
This will be used for once a month meetups, to display tech related information. Text/Graphics etc... It will also be used sparingly for monthly meetings. So overall, not a daily projector. At the end of every week, movies or games. Although the screen will sit on top of a 46" LED TV so I dont think we will need to game on the projector.
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post #10 of 21 Old 08-12-2014, 05:41 PM
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This will be used for once a month meetups, to display tech related information. Text/Graphics etc... It will also be used sparingly for monthly meetings. So overall, not a daily projector. At the end of every week, movies or games. Although the screen will sit on top of a 46" LED TV so I dont think we will need to game on the projector.
Using a higher resolution projector, either 1920 x 1080 or 1920 x 1200, will produce a more detailed image for movie viewing than a 720p or 768p projector, as long as you use a 1080p (or even 1080i) HD video source such as a Blu-ray Disc player. Also be aware that business and classroom class projectors often have a rather high black level and a poor contrast ratio which cannot produce an overall image as good as most home theater class projectors. For business class projectors the DLP models will generally have better contrast and darker blacks than similar price LCD projectors, but these single chip DLP projectors also can produce a "rainbow effect" that can be very annoying to some viewers. If you do go the DLP route look for a model that says it has a 5X or 6X color wheel to minimize the rainbow effect.

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This projector setup will also be utilized for viewing movies and games on rare occasions. Getting 1080P+ would not hinder it's business ability, correct?
getting 1080p wouldn't be a problem no. but the types of projectors that are generally good for ambient light presentations are not good for watching video.


a 'presentation' projector needs to be bright, but a 'movie' projector needs to have great contrast, deep blacks, accurate color, etc. the big issue is deciding between a bright image, and one with deep blacks and good contrast. that's usually not possible to get both.

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getting 1080p wouldn't be a problem no. but the types of projectors that are generally good for ambient light presentations are not good for watching video.


a 'presentation' projector needs to be bright, but a 'movie' projector needs to have great contrast, deep blacks, accurate color, etc. the big issue is deciding between a bright image, and one with deep blacks and good contrast. that's usually not possible to get both.
So for a large room, conducting business/conference presentations, which of these would you choose -

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...Link_436Wi.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...Lite_1776W.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-EW276.htm

Or any other recommendations you can think of? I'm having a hard time finding a legitimate choice.
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this is tough, they all should do the trick, and there's probably two dozen others that would work as well. I'm not super familiar with business use, or I'm not picky about it maybe(I use whatever they give me at school).


sony: is the brightest, or has the best lamp life if you can use eco-mode(might be able to). mounting distance of ~10-16ft(good flexibility)
Epson 1776W: cheapest, and does a pretty good job in all areas, mounting distance of ~10 - 12ft(that's a really tight range)
Epson 436Wi: good brightness and bulb life. iirc those e-torl bulbs are pretty cheap too. mounting distance of EXACTLY 4'6"(no zoom, and it's a short throw design)


of those three, I would lean towards the sony for sure.


that being said, I'd probably take these over it:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-EX6220.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-EX7220.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_99W.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...rLite_955W.htm

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post #14 of 21 Old 08-13-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by vangeliss View Post
So for a large room, conducting business/conference presentations, which of these would you choose -

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...Link_436Wi.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...Lite_1776W.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-EW276.htm

Or any other recommendations you can think of? I'm having a hard time finding a legitimate choice.
I suggest you take a look at the very recently published Projector Reviews "2014-2015 Classroom Projector Report" at the following link:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/proj...s-for-schools/

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this is tough, they all should do the trick, and there's probably two dozen others that would work as well. I'm not super familiar with business use, or I'm not picky about it maybe(I use whatever they give me at school).


sony: is the brightest, or has the best lamp life if you can use eco-mode(might be able to). mounting distance of ~10-16ft(good flexibility)
Epson 1776W: cheapest, and does a pretty good job in all areas, mounting distance of ~10 - 12ft(that's a really tight range)
Epson 436Wi: good brightness and bulb life. iirc those e-torl bulbs are pretty cheap too. mounting distance of EXACTLY 4'6"(no zoom, and it's a short throw design)


of those three, I would lean towards the sony for sure.


that being said, I'd probably take these over it:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-EX6220.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-EX7220.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_99W.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...rLite_955W.htm
They are all sub 1K, which makes me worry about quality. So for distance that I can move it, should I use the projection calculator, and set it to 120" for diagonal screen, and into the RED for high ambient light?
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post #16 of 21 Old 08-13-2014, 03:30 PM
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They are all sub 1K, which makes me worry about quality. So for distance that I can move it, should I use the projection calculator, and set it to 120" for diagonal screen, and into the RED for high ambient light?
I was doing everything for 130" but basically yes. BUT, take with a grain of salt, that calculator has been known to have issues in the past. it should hopefully be accurate as far as what size it'll project from what distance, but the ftl is an educated guess based off published specs, not actual measurements. after you've selected a projector, try to find some reviews that have done real world measurements and make sure it still holds up. if you can get 2000 real world lumens, I think you'll be just fine. the jvc I had at home is rated at 1300, but most reviews measure it between 600-700 real world. imo, it's actually a bit brighter than what I have used at school(but I'm projecting on a larger screen).


again, I'm not entirely sure what your concern with 'quality' is. if it's just about reliability, these should be fine and will last as long as they are useful most likely. like I said before, we've used a bunch of different epsons at school, and they have lasted no problem. so to me it makes a lot more sense to me to pay under a grand(as little as possible basically) for something that's going to be 'obsolete' in 5yrs no matter what anyway. whether or not they have crystal clear optics, or perfect alignment may be another story, but I just don't think those are generally that important for this style of projector anyway. so even if you move up to 1500 or so, you're still not getting pristine optics or vastly improved picture quality. when you pay more money, it's usually to get more lumens so you can project a much larger image for a larger room. or because it's an LED based projector and they are more expensive because of how new that tech is.


also, they get cheaper and better pretty much every 6months. a $1500 2013 model won't stand a chance against a $900 late 2014 or 2015 model.

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getting 1080p wouldn't be a problem no. but the types of projectors that are generally good for ambient light presentations are not good for watching video.


a 'presentation' projector needs to be bright, but a 'movie' projector needs to have great contrast, deep blacks, accurate color, etc. the big issue is deciding between a bright image, and one with deep blacks and good contrast. that's usually not possible to get both.
So there are no projectors that can do both ambient light rejection and deep blacks/contrast/color accuracy?
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So there are no projectors that can do both ambient light rejection and deep blacks/contrast/color accuracy?
Projectors cannot reject ambient light but certain types of screens can. Projectors with high lumens output (i.e., very bright) can help overcome ambient like but with a projector turned off and with the screen in place with the room lighting as it will be for viewing, however bright the screen appears is as dark as black can be even with a perfect projector under those conditions. The highest contrast projectors are generally intended for a home theater where there will be full light control and really high lumens are not needed. Probably the best balance between high lumens and moderately high contrast would be with a 3-chip DLP projector, but these would be priced $20K-ish and up. Remember you need a very very dark room to get significant benefit from a high contrast projector. Commercial movie theaters are typically limited to a contrast ratio of only around 2000:1, or a little more, due to their rather dim lighting (exit signs, step and aisle floor lights, etc). so to get the full benefits of something like a home cinema JVC projector you really need a bat cave with virtually no room lights and even the lights on the front panels of your electronics equipment can light up the room too much..

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post #19 of 21 Old 08-13-2014, 09:31 PM
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So there are no projectors that can do both ambient light rejection and deep blacks/contrast/color accuracy?
it's actually up the screen to 'reject' ambient light, that's a whole other topic in itself really.


but as far as projectors go...
to work in ambient light, a projector needs to be super bright. if it's super bright, that's a LOT of light that needs to be controlled inside the optics. the more light coming out of the bulb, the more light that reflects around inside the optics, as well as off the screen and then off the walls and then back onto the screen. both of which will increase black floor and reduce contrast.


in all honesty, the last time I went to the movies, I felt the black level at the commercial theater was terrible, and I have no doubt that my jvc at home had WAY deeper blacks. it's just insanely difficult to control that much light, even professional projectors can't really do it.


I think, if you want something with a decent compromise, you could look at something like the Epson 5030. in 'movie' mode the lumens drop, but it's got accurate color, and with the DI it gives you good on/off contrast and black levels. but, if you put it in 'dynamic' mode, the lumens jump way higher, at the sacrifice of color accuracy, contrast, and black levels. I'm not sure if it'll be bright enough for your needs even in dynamic mode though, but it may be worth investigating if you want a good movie experience.


another option that may have some success, is to use an ND filter on a bright business class projector to dim the picture and lower black levels. while not as good as a dedicated home theater projector, it can at least address the issue of light bouncing off the screen reflecting off walls and washing out blacks on the screen, giving a slight improvement in ansi contrast, but more importantly if it dims the image 10%, you get 10% deeper blacks. so you'd get your bright image for presentations, then put the filter in front and it'll improve movie performance. I look at this as kind of a Band-Aid solution though, not really ideal.


depending on how bright you really need the projector for presentations, and how 'high end' you want the movie experience, you may actually be able to get away with a DLP(I assumed you were avoiding DLP from your first list, and so haven't recommended anything that was) with a fast color wheel. the DLP's at this range will tend to have better blacks and contrast for watching movies, you may be able to find one that puts out around 2000lumens but still retains decent picture quality. a lot of ppl really like the benq w1070 for home theater use, but it's essentially a business class projector with 1080p resolution and good picture quality. I think they class it as a 'home entertainment' projector.


sorry I kind of rambled on there, lots of thoughts all at once, haha

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post #20 of 21 Old 08-13-2014, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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it's actually up the screen to 'reject' ambient light, that's a whole other topic in itself really.


but as far as projectors go...
to work in ambient light, a projector needs to be super bright. if it's super bright, that's a LOT of light that needs to be controlled inside the optics. the more light coming out of the bulb, the more light that reflects around inside the optics, as well as off the screen and then off the walls and then back onto the screen. both of which will increase black floor and reduce contrast.


in all honesty, the last time I went to the movies, I felt the black level at the commercial theater was terrible, and I have no doubt that my jvc at home had WAY deeper blacks. it's just insanely difficult to control that much light, even professional projectors can't really do it.


I think, if you want something with a decent compromise, you could look at something like the Epson 5030. in 'movie' mode the lumens drop, but it's got accurate color, and with the DI it gives you good on/off contrast and black levels. but, if you put it in 'dynamic' mode, the lumens jump way higher, at the sacrifice of color accuracy, contrast, and black levels. I'm not sure if it'll be bright enough for your needs even in dynamic mode though, but it may be worth investigating if you want a good movie experience.


another option that may have some success, is to use an ND filter on a bright business class projector to dim the picture and lower black levels. while not as good as a dedicated home theater projector, it can at least address the issue of light bouncing off the screen reflecting off walls and washing out blacks on the screen, giving a slight improvement in ansi contrast, but more importantly if it dims the image 10%, you get 10% deeper blacks. so you'd get your bright image for presentations, then put the filter in front and it'll improve movie performance. I look at this as kind of a Band-Aid solution though, not really ideal.


depending on how bright you really need the projector for presentations, and how 'high end' you want the movie experience, you may actually be able to get away with a DLP(I assumed you were avoiding DLP from your first list, and so haven't recommended anything that was) with a fast color wheel. the DLP's at this range will tend to have better blacks and contrast for watching movies, you may be able to find one that puts out around 2000lumens but still retains decent picture quality. a lot of ppl really like the benq w1070 for home theater use, but it's essentially a business class projector with 1080p resolution and good picture quality. I think they class it as a 'home entertainment' projector.


sorry I kind of rambled on there, lots of thoughts all at once, haha
Thanks for taking the time, I appreciate it.

I've narrowed it down to - BenQ SH910 and Epson PL 3020.

Leaning towards BenQ.

For screens:
Draper Targa/Envoy/Rollermaic/Premiere
Da Lite Electrol
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post #21 of 21 Old 08-13-2014, 11:54 PM
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that benq looks interesting, still seems a bit pricey though, and you'll be eating through bulbs like crazy. but it is bright and it is 1080p... so it might be worth all that.


I wouldn't bother with the 3020 for what you've described. if you're going to go that way, I'd recommend the benq w1070 over it for sure. I think it's a better projector and it's actually cheaper.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP
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