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post #1 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Projectors that can hit 150+ screen size:reasonable?

Right now I am shooting at my drywall at about 140 inches 16:9. And Its plenty bright, even in THX mode. I have an epson 5030ub on loan I am trying out right now. I would like to go 150 16:9 or 158 2.35.1 but everything I have read seems to show projectors have a problem going larger them 130 inches.

When I look at what most people have on this site, projector wise ,no matter the cost, very rarely do I see screens go above 130. So is that because people cant afford the bigger screens, and don't want to do the DIY route, or Can these projectors just no bring enough brightness? I have seem some of the theaters people have on this site, and they are beautiful, so i know its not price limits for some.

I have the room to go 150+ as well, so that is my problem. I zoomed the image down and made it the size of 120, 130 135 and smaller and larger, and the problem is especially on 3d. I hate the smaller size. Now the way I am shooting at only allows me to go 140, but I will be switching it so I can shoot longer and put the projector farther back, and then I will see what 150 plus looks like. But the thing is i want to understand what I am getting to without buying the screen if it will be to big for the current projector or anything even new. I hope I have explained this well enough for everyone to understand, Oh and I cant shoot on the wall where the BIG screen will go as there is an opening of 118 inches length wise and 3 feet deep wise where there are 2 windows. So when I get the screen it will cover that whole area and moutn on the 2 sides. Look forward to the reply and help. thank you.
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post #2 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 10:58 AM
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I also would like to know the answer.......
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post #3 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
Right now I am shooting at my drywall at about 140 inches 16:9. And Its plenty bright, even in THX mode. I have an epson 5030ub on loan I am trying out right now. I would like to go 150 16:9 or 158 2.35.1 but everything I have read seems to show projectors have a problem going larger them 130 inches.

When I look at what most people have on this site, projector wise ,no matter the cost, very rarely do I see screens go above 130. So is that because people cant afford the bigger screens, and don't want to do the DIY route, or Can these projectors just no bring enough brightness? I have seem some of the theaters people have on this site, and they are beautiful, so i know its not price limits for some.

I have the room to go 150+ as well, so that is my problem. I zoomed the image down and made it the size of 120, 130 135 and smaller and larger, and the problem is especially on 3d. I hate the smaller size. Now the way I am shooting at only allows me to go 140, but I will be switching it so I can shoot longer and put the projector farther back, and then I will see what 150 plus looks like. But the thing is i want to understand what I am getting to without buying the screen if it will be to big for the current projector or anything even new. I hope I have explained this well enough for everyone to understand, Oh and I cant shoot on the wall where the BIG screen will go as there is an opening of 118 inches length wise and 3 feet deep wise where there are 2 windows. So when I get the screen it will cover that whole area and moutn on the 2 sides. Look forward to the reply and help. thank you.
Not everyone has a room big enough for a 130+ in screen. The size also depends on the screen material. A projector can light up a 160in 2.4 HP screen better than a 100in 1.0 gain screen. Mounting position and screen gain are a big factor as well as room size. A Benq W1070 costing $700 can light up a $300 150in 1.0 screen with good brightness in the right environment. I don't think cost is a problem either when going bigger.
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post #4 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 11:26 AM
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One of the issues that many people face is the drop in brightness after color/greyscale calibration. If you were to calibrate that 5030, you're only going to get about 700 lumens. A 140" diagonal screen has a surface area of 58.46 square feet. 700 / 58.46 = 11.9 ftL

That's your starting point and will only get dimmer as the bulb ages. 12ftL is pretty dim by most accounts. 3D would be almost unwatchable. If you don't care about an accurate picture and are fine with one of the brighter inaccurate picture modes then that's great and it should be bright enough for your screen size choice, but to answer your question about why most don't go larger than 120-130" on their screen size is because there aren't many home theater projectors out there, that most people can afford (sub $10000), that have enough calibrated lumens to fill a screen larger than that. Also as Blee points out, many also don't have the room to go any larger than that.

Once you start getting up there in price ($3000+) people start to care about color accuracy a bit more. Calibrations usually take a toll on lumen output. With the advent of 3D and 4K we're likely to see some brighter projectors coming our way though.

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post #5 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 03:17 PM
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in all honesty I think that's usually because of room constraints, not projectors. while it does seem like there's a practical limit on lumens for high contrast projectors, I don't think 140-=150 is unreasonable. that size however, would be more than floor to ceiling in my room. my first screen was 120" and it only left be about 4inches above the screen, and about 18-20" below the screen. I found 16:9 content nearly unwatchable because of the image height. I feel like I'd need at least 10foot ceilings to go even 130" let alone 150"


besides, you've got the Epson 5030 in your hands right now. all you need to do is zoom out to the desired size, and then you can tell us if it's bright enough. the 5030 has some good lumens in its brightest modes, but the calibrated lumens seems to be pretty average(as in similar to) compared to the sony, jvc, or Panasonic it's competing with.

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post #6 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok thank you all for all the comments. Here is the other question I just thought of. Right now the projector is about 14.5 feet back from the wall. And wide open its shooting 140. My question or problem is, are you guys saying that really i need to bring the projector in closer and shoot on a small screen to maintain the brightness in the calibrated modes (best modes)? Is 14 feet beyond the normal? Are we looking at a "lower" projector here now?

For example I know from reading the reviews, the Sony hw40 es has a brighter best mode then the Epson 5030 does, but yet its considered a lower end projector or am i reading this wrong? I hate to give up light for color accuracy. I guess I am lost on what to do given how the lamps fade over time. also how much do they fade to nothing before they just don't turn on anymore or what? I am just an everydayguy who enjoys movies on a big screen. Like most I am not rich but I want it to look as good as can be.

Also where does gain come in to this as well. I mean how much do the high powered screens help anything? Or hurt? I have read about hot spotting, but there is only 2 of us and we sit right next to each other when watching movies, so is that even a concern?
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post #7 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
Not everyone has a room big enough for a 130+ in screen. The size also depends on the screen material. A projector can light up a 160in 2.4 HP screen better than a 100in 1.0 gain screen. Mounting position and screen gain are a big factor as well as room size. A Benq W1070 costing $700 can light up a $300 150in 1.0 screen with good brightness in the right environment. I don't think cost is a problem either when going bigger.
Ok what do you determine as a "right environment"? I ask as my room is completely light controlled. So is the benq w1070 that much more powerful than the epson minus the black levels?
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post #8 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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" The first time you turn it on, the HW40ES starts up in Cinema Film 1 mode. Cinema Film 1 looks great, especially for such a bright image mode, and is suitable for film and video when ambient light is present. But at just over 1400 lumens, Cinema Film 1 could light up a 160" diagonal 1.0 gain screen at over 16 foot Lamberts, so it's not meant for home theater at normal screen sizes." http://www.projectorcentral.com/sony...tor_review.htm That is where that line comes from, would you all agree with that? that 1400 lumes can do 160 inch screen no problem? And that as long as I am not in one of the epson "best modes" I should be ok? That would be living room or dynamic mode.

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post #9 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
Ok what do you determine as a "right environment"? I ask as my room is completely light controlled. So is the benq w1070 that much more powerful than the epson minus the black levels?
It doesn't have to be 100% light controlled but it must be a good environment that light isn't a major factor.

DLP projectors can be bright but not all can throw a good picture. The W1070 happens to give a good picture for it's price. The Epson has a better picture
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post #10 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 07:45 PM
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for kicks, I zoomed my jvc x35 to the largest I could go on my current throw distance(about 15-16feet depending on which screen it hits), and I was actually surprised by how large of a screen I could potentially 'fit' if I went AT material and went wall to wall. I hung a couple of white bedsheets to really get the experience. my results were quite pleasing. for MY needs, I would say the x35, in low lamp, iris fully closed with 771H(just checked) had no problem lighting up a 150ish inch screen(sorry I don't have an exact measure)


as for your questions regarding throw distance and brightness, well there's two things that make for a brighter image. a smaller screen, moving the projector closer. often, these two work in a way where it almost cancels each other out. for example, I run two screen, 120"(which I pull down part way and use for scope content) and 100" that I use for 16:9 content. obviously the projector is mounted in a fixed location, and I merely zoom in/out between the two screens. logic would say that since the 120" is larger, it would be way dimmer. but on the flip side, I'm zoomed more for the 120" screen, which allows more light out of the projector. the end result is that both of my screens are very close in brightness. actually, they are identical because my smaller screen is also a .08gain grey material. if not for that, I think the calculated difference is something like 3ftl.


so what I'm getting at, for you, if the 140" is as close as the projector can go, to get 150" you'll have to move it back a bit, but you will only be losing brightness due to the size increase. you don't have to move it WAY back and take a second hit to brightness too. in fact, according to the calculator on projectorcentral, going from 140" to 150" at a throw distance of 14'8"(the min to get 150")results in no change in brightness(both 18ftl). the max brightness at 13'8" for 140" is 21ftl. so if we assume that's what you're seeing now, it should be a small change, and 18ftl is still plenty acceptable

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post #11 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 09:49 PM
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I have a screen 165 inches with excellent performance

Hello friend at AVS
It is hard to get a good projector that can fill a big screen. I have been using an old Infocus IN85 that cost me under 4K some six or seven years ago and is still feeding my theater with excellent performnce. It has superior reliability, 1080P but not 3D capacity.
If you can get one of those baby used, go for it. It is really good and can go easily beyond the 165 diagonal inches with very good FC. I'm still using it and my only compliance is to get a new model with the 3D performance!
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post #12 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 10:17 PM
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I run my 153" Seymour xd screen with my JVC X-55 and it looks awesome! I've used to run my 8500Ub and it looked really good as well but the JVC is subjectively brighter (I really like my JVC). The Sony HW55 is even brighter in best mode, at least that's my understanding.

But ambient light hurts the image at this size, IMO.
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post #13 of 97 Old 08-24-2014, 11:31 PM
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It's depending a lot on what you can live with. I have a jvc x35 and a 138''1.1 gain scope screen. I run it in high lamp with wide open iris for max light output (should be around 8-900 lumens). It's ok but I still think it is a bit on the dim side. I have a pull down 2.4 gain hp screen as well and the extra brightness it provides really gives more life to the image. It becomes more contrasty with saturated popping colors and more realistic highlights. Unfortunately it's difficult to find something brighter at the moment without breaking the bank. To get significantly better light output with decent contrast would mean the next step up would be the sony vw600. I'm hoping cedia will bring a new jvc with 1500 calibrated lumens, but that might be hoping too much...
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post #14 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 03:41 AM
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It's all about achieving a balance between Room conditions, Screen & Projector performance. You can't send a Boy to do a Man's job.....and choosing a PJ/Screen combo that requires that the projector be set to Low Lamp to achieve acceptable color and contrast performance it not going to serve to make larger screen sizes practical.

Not quite 150" diagonal...just a puny 143" using a Panasonic AE8000U set at 15' 6" -Screen is smoothed Drywall painted w/ Silver Fire v2.5 3.0


How big is 143"s



Screen to room size example....and shown projected in a reasonable amount of ambient light



Spock....no Lizard



Here are two other examples, a SF v2.5 1.0 142"er ....Panny 8K @ 14' 6" with first image shown under full Flood light illumination....The front Floods are washing the screen, and a second with the front Floods off but rear flood still on.


And this just in...a 145"er (same basic type screen & PJ....different location....) PJ @ 16' 8" throw -Shot taken under ridiculously torturous light conditions just because....no one ever does. Note the color of the screen? It is a lighter version SF v2.5 1.0 not specifically intended to be a stellar ambient light performer, yet it uses the 8000's lumen output to best advantage.



Image actually looks a bit better than is shown.....here last is a close up under the same lighting.


Match up the right screen with a well chosen PJ and you can do what you want to do. The Panasonic AE8000U is just the sort of Projector that can accomplish your goal.



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To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #15 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
Ok what do you determine as a "right environment"? I ask as my room is completely light controlled. So is the benq w1070 that much more powerful than the epson minus the black levels?
May need to define light controlled. Many people think, a sealed room with no windows is light controlled. A sealed room with light colored walls and a white ceiling is not a light controlled room. What they are not taking into account is controlling the largest light source in the room and that is the screen it's self. True light control is controlling this light also and very few rooms do this well.
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post #16 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 08:09 AM
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Mike certainly has that nailed. Even with an optimum PJ/Screen match-up, and Blackout Curtains...even directed lighting, if the ceiling or walls are acting like overt reflectors, performance will suffer. At best, an optimal PJ/Screen combo can help mitigate those caveats....not reduce them to being inconsequential.

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post #17 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
Right now I am shooting at my drywall at about 140 inches 16:9. And Its plenty bright, even in THX mode. I have an epson 5030ub on loan I am trying out right now. I would like to go 150 16:9 or 158 2.35.1 but everything I have read seems to show projectors have a problem going larger them 130 inches.

When I look at what most people have on this site, projector wise ,no matter the cost, very rarely do I see screens go above 130. So is that because people cant afford the bigger screens, and don't want to do the DIY route, or Can these projectors just no bring enough brightness? I have seem some of the theaters people have on this site, and they are beautiful, so i know its not price limits for some.

I have the room to go 150+ as well, so that is my problem. I zoomed the image down and made it the size of 120, 130 135 and smaller and larger, and the problem is especially on 3d. I hate the smaller size. Now the way I am shooting at only allows me to go 140, but I will be switching it so I can shoot longer and put the projector farther back, and then I will see what 150 plus looks like. But the thing is i want to understand what I am getting to without buying the screen if it will be to big for the current projector or anything even new. I hope I have explained this well enough for everyone to understand, Oh and I cant shoot on the wall where the BIG screen will go as there is an opening of 118 inches length wise and 3 feet deep wise where there are 2 windows. So when I get the screen it will cover that whole area and moutn on the 2 sides. Look forward to the reply and help. thank you.

So what is your seating distance? Everything is relative. Personally, I like sitting closer to a smaller ( 120" 16:9, 128" 2.35:1 ) screen with a bright, punchy picture ! We sit 12' 6" away.

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post #18 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok now this might be a very stupid question, but I just cant make sense of it. Which is brighter? Having the picture at the absolute largest so its opened all the way, hence more light? Or zoom it down for a smaller picture, and more focused light? In other words does the light become brighter if you have it more focused and zoomed down to a smaller picture.

And for those following this thread. I am at about 20 feet back from the screen. that is my far wall. I am not able to celing mount it as of yet. So hence I can open it up to a HUGE picture or zoom it down to a smaller picture hence the question above.
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post #19 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
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Ok now this might be a very stupid question, but I just cant make sense of it. Which is brighter? Having the picture at the absolute largest so its opened all the way, hence more light? Or zoom it down for a smaller picture, and more focused light? In other words does the light become brighter if you have it more focused and zoomed down to a smaller picture.

And for those following this thread. I am at about 20 feet back from the screen. that is my far wall. I am not able to celing mount it as of yet. So hence I can open it up to a HUGE picture or zoom it down to a smaller picture hence the question above.
The iris closes down about 1.3 stops range on your projector. Which means that at maximum zoom the same size screen will be 2/3rds brighter than moving the projector further away at minimum zoom.
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post #20 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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The iris closes down about 1.3 stops range on your projector. Which means that at maximum zoom the same size screen will be 2/3rds brighter than moving the projector further away at minimum zoom.
Thank you for your reply but I have not idea what you are saying, you went right over my head. When you say maximun zoom, do you mean with the screen at the largest with the biggest picture and the zoom opened up the most or vice versa. Just not following you.
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post #21 of 97 Old 08-25-2014, 11:53 PM
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Thank you for your reply but I have not idea what you are saying, you went right over my head. When you say maximun zoom, do you mean with the screen at the largest with the biggest picture and the zoom opened up the most or vice versa. Just not following you.
Lets say you want your 150" screen. Mounted closer at full zoom will give about 2/3rd brighter. At no zoom you will have to move the projector back to get 150" and lose 2/3rd brightness.
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post #22 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Lets say you want your 150" screen. Mounted closer at full zoom will give about 2/3rd brighter. At no zoom you will have to move the projector back to get 150" and lose 2/3rd brightness.
Ok when you say full zoom, you mean wide open? I am confused. for example lets say the projector is 12 feet back and will shoot 150 with the zoom all the way open. Or it being 20 feet back and will shsot 175 with the zoom all the way open. for me to get 150 at 20 feet I would have to zoom down. Or leave it wide open and move the project back to 12 feet correct? Is that what you are saying? I swear I do not do drugs I am an smart guy. Maybe its just to late and my head is losing it.
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post #23 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 12:02 AM
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IF you keep the image size constant and move around the projector to try different zooms, the image will be brightest when the projector is closest to the screen. I.e. maximum zoom. However, if you keep the projector distance constant and instead increase image size by zooming you will be dropping in brightness even though you increase the zoom. The reason is that the light will be diluted over a bigger surface area faster than the light efficiency increases by zooming bigger. A hypothetical example: you increase the width of the image by a factor of two by zooming, the bigger zoom gives you 30% more light, but now the light is spread out over a 4x larger area and thus the new brightness will be 130%/4=33% of what it was before.
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post #24 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 12:22 AM
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Yeah, what Drexler said.

You also have to worry about purple fringe, and distortions. There is a sweet spot for contrast and sharpness. I'd personally want to find the sharpest image which will be be a zoom position somewhere in the middle.

My suggestion is make a real small image about a third or less at maximum zoom. Say a 100". Focus the image perfectly. Then keep moving the projector further back. Reduce zoom so the image is the exact same size. Focus and compare. Repeat this procedure until you find the sharpest image.

Now. Leave the zoom alone and move the projector back until you get a 150" image. This will give your optimum image.
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post #25 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 12:22 AM
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To digress for a moment - Metalguy I am at 176" 2.35:1 and I love it. I DO have black ceilings and walls and dark gray carpet however. My projector at the moment is a Samsung SP-A800B which is only about 600 lumens calibrated. I have a JVC X500 on the way which will be almost double the calibrated brightness - and you can pick them up for about $3,000 as B-stocks with warranties. Either one would do fine on your 158" 2.35:1 requirement.

Don't let anyone tell you you need to go with a smaller screen. And changing bulbs once a year is no big deal to maintain your brightness. You'll be glad you went with the larger size that you originally wanted, your friends will love it, and you'll actually feel like you're at the movies every time you turn it on.

If you're over 10 foot lamberts I think you are more than fine. If it looks good to you go with it - after you get the surrounding walls and ceiling very dark the picture will pop.

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post #26 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreeves View Post
Don't let anyone tell you you need to go with a smaller screen. And changing bulbs once a year is no big deal to maintain your brightness. You'll be glad you went with the larger size that you originally wanted, your friends will love it, and you'll actually feel like you're at the movies every time you turn it on.
While I agree that you can't just take recommendations from others as gospel, since everyone has their own threshold for what they perceive as "bright enough"....

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To digress for a moment - Metalguy I am at 176" 2.35:1 and I love it. I DO have black ceilings and walls and dark gray carpet however. My projector at the moment is a Samsung SP-A800B which is only about 600 lumens calibrated. I have a JVC X500 on the way which will be almost double the calibrated brightness - and you can pick them up for about $3,000 as B-stocks with warranties. Either one would do fine on your 158" 2.35:1 requirement.
By my math, if you're actually still getting 600Lumens, and you're using an anamorphic lens, then since your screen is 77 square feet, you're getting a brightness of only 7.7 ftL (it's less than 6ftL if you're not using a lens). While I have heard of people being happy with that, I know I personally am not. I tend to think my image starts to look dull/dim when it approaches 10ftL. 7.7 is also well below the old cinema stardard of 12ftL, and well below the current DCI standard of 16ftL.

While it's true that some can be happy with sub-8ftL brightnesses, if a person is new, doesn't know what they actually like, and can't go and see for themselves, I think it's "safer" for one to shoot more for what the standards state, ie 12-16ftL.

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Don't let anyone tell you you need to go with a smaller screen. And changing bulbs once a year is no big deal to maintain your brightness. You'll be glad you went with the larger size that you originally wanted, your friends will love it, and you'll actually feel like you're at the movies every time you turn it on.

If you're over 10 foot lamberts I think you are more than fine. If it looks good to you go with it - after you get the surrounding walls and ceiling very dark the picture will pop.
Yeah, I change my lamps roughly once a year, it's not a bad price to pay IMO for a great image. FWIW, according to Cine4home, my Planar can push out a bit under 600 Lumens in high lamp, so it seems to be similar to your Samsung. However I'm only using a 110" wide scope screen (with a lens) and I definitely wouldn't want to go 50% wider, there's no way (IMO) on a roughly unity gain screen, a 600 Lumen projector can light something ~160" wide satisfactorily.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #27 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 02:20 PM
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Arrow Good points of view but...

The discussion is going out of the original question. We can do many things to improve the image moving the projector closer or away, painting the walls, open and close the zoom etc. But the question is not solved: can we recommend a projector that can hit the 16 FL having a 150+ screen, say gain 1 screen material, under a normal Home Theater enviroment with out needing to be a magician to get a little more here and there to compensate the real technical capacity needed to get the right image at this size?

By other side, 600, 1,000 or 3,000 lumens are tricky figures many times manipulated by the factories, making difficult to get solid comparisons!

I have not seen this projector under 3K. The market is flooded with good to excellent projectors reaching the sub 120" ...but falls short on the calculator when the requirement goes over that 120 inches screens
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post #28 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 02:31 PM
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Right now I am shooting at my drywall at about 140 inches 16:9. And Its plenty bright, even in THX mode. I have an epson 5030ub on loan I am trying out right now. I would like to go 150 16:9 or 158 2.35.1 but everything I have read seems to show projectors have a problem going larger them 130 inches.

When I look at what most people have on this site, projector wise ,no matter the cost, very rarely do I see screens go above 130. So is that because people cant afford the bigger screens, and don't want to do the DIY route, or Can these projectors just no bring enough brightness? I have seem some of the theaters people have on this site, and they are beautiful, so i know its not price limits for some.

I have the room to go 150+ as well, so that is my problem. I zoomed the image down and made it the size of 120, 130 135 and smaller and larger, and the problem is especially on 3d. I hate the smaller size. Now the way I am shooting at only allows me to go 140, but I will be switching it so I can shoot longer and put the projector farther back, and then I will see what 150 plus looks like. But the thing is i want to understand what I am getting to without buying the screen if it will be to big for the current projector or anything even new. I hope I have explained this well enough for everyone to understand, Oh and I cant shoot on the wall where the BIG screen will go as there is an opening of 118 inches length wise and 3 feet deep wise where there are 2 windows. So when I get the screen it will cover that whole area and moutn on the 2 sides. Look forward to the reply and help. thank you.
There are two issues - sheer power - lumens, and screen gain. The Epson calibrates at about 800 lumens at the short end of its zoom range (closest to the screen). With a 1.3 gain screen that should be just above the minimum brightness for a 150" screen, and technically will fall below the SMPTE minimum of 12 ft/lambert as the lamp ages (this is all off the top of my head, I didn't break out the calculator).

But there's a plan B. You can calibrate one of the brighter modes - typically Living Room, which should get you at least a 50% boost. It won't be as perfect, because the color filter that is used in THX and other "best modes", isn't used. Still the end result is very good.

With 1200 lumens 150" is well within range, even with a 1.1 gain screen.

The primary reason though that you don't read about many folks with larger screens is that most people simply don't have a room large enough. The rich folks that do, are buying Runco's and other projectors which typically are brighter than what we are used to in this type of price range. A few years back we calibrated and reviewed a SIM2 C3X. I think $30K or $40K at the time. A nice 2000 lumens calibrated... And that was before 3D, which has forced most projector companies to put more lumens "under the hood." -art
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post #29 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fpoujol View Post
The discussion is going out of the original question. We can do many things to improve the image moving the projector closer or away, painting the walls, open and close the zoom etc. But the question is not solved: can we recommend a projector that can hit the 16 FL having a 150+ screen, say gain 1 screen material, under a normal Home Theater enviroment with out needing to be a magician to get a little more here and there to compensate the real technical capacity needed to get the right image at this size?
Well I wouldn't toss out zoom, it has an important effect, but let me get to that later....

150", if we're talking diagonal, 16:9, that's 75 square feet. With a unity gain screen, that means you need 75*16 = 1200 Lumens. Now that's a "real world" number, lets call it calibrated. Off the top of my head, if you want a high quality image (ie calibrated), that puts you into Sony VW1100, possibly VW600, or something like a Sim2 Lumis or maybe a DPI machine. If you want it "solved", that's it, get out the checkbook and write a big check, that's really the only option.

Now I did mention zoom being important, just as an example, say you were willing to accept 12ftL, being that that's "only" 900 Lumens, a JVC X500/X700 could do that, but only if you're able to place it for optimum brightness, ie at min throw. If you needed a longer throw, the JVC wouldn't work as it would be too dim at long throw. So these things, specifically throw can be important to answering the question.

Quote:
By other side, 600, 1,000 or 3,000 lumens are tricky figures many times manipulated by the factories, making difficult to get solid comparisons!
That's why you have to look at reputable reviews, and accounts from folks here on the forum who do independent measurements.

Quote:
I have not seen this projector under 3K. The market is flooded with good to excellent projectors reaching the sub 120" ...but falls short on the calculator when the requirement goes over that 120 inches screens
Brightness, Contrast, Cost, pick any two. Home Theater projectors value contrast almost above all else, probably because it is just about the most obvious factor in perceived picture quality. So HT projector designers basically end up balancing cost vs brightness. High contrast requires an "inefficient" light path because you have to block a lot of the light you want to reduce the light you don't. So in an HT, high contrast projector, the only way to get more light out, is to put more light in, which means bigger, more expensive lamps, power supplies and cooling systems, and all of that needs to be kept quiet which adds further expense. By the time you do all that, you've already pushed yourself out of the "mass market", so the cost per unit goes up even more because less units are sold to divide the R&D costs over. Plus you generally need uncommonly large rooms for screens that big, further reducing your market, reducing potential units sold, driving per unit R&D costs even higher.

If you want a sub-$3k machine that can light a 150" unity gain screen, you need to look at business projectors, but those have low contrast and aren't "Home Theater" quiet either.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #30 of 97 Old 08-26-2014, 03:21 PM
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My Epson 6010 3D fills my Seymour 174" AT Scope Curved Screen just fine with a 15' throw.

Anthem Statement D2v3D, Paradigm Sub 2, Paradigm S8s with C5, Anthem Statement M1 Amps, 174" AT Scope Screen, Epson 6010 3D Projector
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