Questions for Cedia Attendees about the New Sony Projectors - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I don't know how long it will take them, but for those who can't wait here is the projector they are about to announce: http://pjhc.fr/


https://translate.google.com/transla...r%2F&edit-text=


VPL-VW300ES


Well, it is finally revealed, the new 4K SXRD projector from Sony, the VPL-VW300ES. This model based on the hull of the VPL-VW500ES remains a projector with UHP light source, available from mid-October 2014 it falls below 7000 €. We are well past the first three years of a model set to € 20,000 (VPL-VW1000ES) to € 10,000 in 2013 with the VPL-VW500ES € 6990 and now with this new VPL-VW300ES.
The optical unit remains fully motorized but to save costs, SONY abandons the storage device zoom and auto-calibration module VPL-VW500ES.
The performances by the manufacturer is also coming down with a reported 1,500 lumens light output and a contrast ratio of 20,000: 1. He wins by contrast with CRESTRON accounting modules.

Very cool. Thank you.
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post #32 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 07:49 AM
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Quite good that it keeps the motorized optical unit. Apparently only the autocal goes?
Unfortunately (but as expected) still only HDMI 2.0b (but with HDCP 2.2).
1500 lumens
That sounds great for 6900 euros.

More details in the link above.

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post #33 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 07:58 AM
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post #34 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:07 AM
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Doest this means that the new VW300 has no Lens Memory to switch from 16:9 to 21:9, or what they mean with: "SONY abandons the storage device zoom "??


Cheers
S.
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post #35 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:07 AM
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http://www.avcesar.com/actu/id-14951...0-hdcp-22.html

there is mention of a gaming mode, that is good news. on a similar topic, VW1100 gaming in 4K has noticeably reduced lag input vs. 1080P gaming content.
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post #36 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
Doest this means that the new VW300 has no Lens Memory to switch from 16:9 to 21:9, or what they mean with: "SONY abandons the storage device zoom "??


Cheers
S.

EDIT: Actually yes, it does mean that, no zoom/lens memory, but electronic control for zoom, focus and shift.
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post #37 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:18 AM
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Hi Manni,

Very unfortunately : "... ou encore la disparition des mémoires de position", so there is no zoom memory (16/9 and/or 2.35 positions) on this new VW300.

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post #38 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:19 AM
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post #39 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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If somebody can post a link to the brochure and one for the spec sheet, I will post them in post 2.

Sorry about the pree presentation starting earlier than I posted. i missed the whole thing. The q and A session after it did not address projectors.

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post #40 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:45 AM
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I've updated by recent CEDIA Expo Preview blog at the link below to include a summary of the specs. for the new VPL-VW300es. As compared to the VW500es/VW600es, the VW300es appears to not have a dynamic iris, the lumens output is a little lower and the new model lacks lens memory and auto calibrate. It looks like reasonable trade-offs, except for the lack of a DI, for the 30% lower price (for European models).


Will the USA get a VPL-VW400es (at a premium price) as was done last year for the VW500es vs. VW600es? We'll know next week at CEDIA.


http://www.projectorreviews.com/tech...-2014-preview/

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post #41 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi Manni,

Very unfortunately : "... ou encore la disparition des mémoires de position", so there is no zoom memory (16/9 and/or 2.35 positions) on this new VW300.

Hugo
Can't believe why this simple feature will not be supported by the VW300? This is a major showstopper for everybody who use 21:9 screens
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post #42 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
Can't believe why this simple feature will not be supported by the VW300? This is a major showstopper for everybody who use 21:9 screens
I guess if the lens/picture quality is the same, that's one of the features they could take out to justify the lower price.


Otherwise it's really cheap to take it out, I agree.


I wonder if the native on/off is that same as in the 500/600.


20000:1 is about the native on/off of these models. So if the entire picture quality is the same, especially with the addition of a game mode, it's a pretty good deal.


Not sure why they gave the native on/off of this new model, usually they only talk about dynamic on/off.


Unless it's a typo and they mean 200000:1 dynamic?
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post #43 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
Can't believe why this simple feature will not be supported by the VW300? This is a major showstopper for everybody who use 21:9 screens
You should have known that the VW300es was going to give up some significant features since it is selling for 30% than the VW500es. Several on hear had speculated that not only would lens memory be gone, but also there would be not power zoom, focus and lens shift, but Sony kept those features.

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post #44 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 09:03 AM
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Oops apparently there is no dynamic iris, so the on/off is 20000:1, that's it...


Funny that once JVC introduces a DI on their models Sony takes it out of theirs
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post #45 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I guess if the lens/picture quality is the same, that's one of the features they could take out to justify the lower price.


Otherwise it's really cheap to take it out, I agree.


I wonder if the native on/off is that same as in the 500/600.


20000:1 is about the native on/off of these models. So if the entire picture quality is the same, especially with the addition of a game mode, it's a pretty good deal.


Not sure why they gave the native on/off of this new model, usually they only talk about dynamic on/off.


Unless it's a typo and they mean 200000:1 dynamic?
In the German Forums they have confirmed, the the DI has also been removed...
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post #46 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
Can't believe why this simple feature will not be supported by the VW300? This is a major showstopper for everybody who use 21:9 screens
It would have been a nice feature to have. But you can still zoom and shift via the remote, so now you will have to do it when you play a wide screen movie and then again when you switch back. Its no a show stopper for all wide screeners. Might take you 20 seconds to do it. No motorized zoom or lens shift would have been a show stopper for almost all wide screeners. Man. I just did what I asked you guys not to do. Limit this thread to questions and answers.


For example, is the lens the same as in the 500/600. The zoom is the same. Thee lower contrast ratio is due to the elimination of the DI and less lumens out is most likely going from a 265 watt bulb to a 230 watt bulb.The DI and its dynamic gamma could also account for less maximum brightness.


What was the zoom ration for the 500/600? Its 2.06 in the 300/400.

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post #47 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 09:10 AM
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It would have been a nice feature to have. But you can still zoom and shift via the remote, so now you will have to do it when you play a wide screen movie and then again when you switch back. Its no a show stopper for all wide screeners. Might take you 20 seconds to do it. No motorized zoom or lens shift would have been a show stopper for almost all wide screeners. Man. I just did what I asked you guys not to do. Limit this thread to questions and answers.


For example, is the lens the same as in the 500/600. The zoom is different I think. The throw ratio range has been increased. The lower contrast ratio and less lumens out would suggest a somewhat lesser lens.
The native contrast ratio is exactly the same as on the 500/600ES without the dynamic iris (20000:1, that's what I measured). The loss of lumens comes from the less powerful bulb (230W vs 265W). Looks like they have kept exactly the same lens, which is good news as the PQ should be exactly the same (well without the DI, which I didn't like on the 500ES due to artifacts even in low mode).


The zoom ratio seems to be the same, it was already 2.06 on the 500/600ES.

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post #48 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 12:07 PM
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Will it have a CMS?

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post #49 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 12:13 PM
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3:46 on the video I posted above, it sure looks like it.
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post #50 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 02:26 PM
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bulb swap

I'm sure this has been asked before in a past classic Sony model downgrade scenario over the years but...what are the odds I could use the 265W bulb from the 500ES in the 300ES?
Perhaps it would require some hacked 500ES (300ES hybrid) firmware? I guess we'll have to see if the power supply in the unit is the same too...

The brightness is the only feature I'd miss from the 500ES (shooting for a 165" 1.3 gain screen). I'd especially think the brightness penalty would be noticeable in 3D. I've never seen a dynamic Iris I've liked so I'm happy to lose that classic spec sheet enhancer and pocket the difference (it's nice to see Manni01 agrees too). Perhaps someone should start an official 300ES thread for question/answers since this is supposed to Cedia questions? Or will someone bounce this hypothetical question off a technical guy at the Sony booth for me next week?
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post #51 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
I'm sure this has been asked before in a past classic Sony model downgrade scenario over the years but...what are the odds I could use the 265W bulb from the 500ES in the 300ES?
Perhaps it would require some hacked 500ES (300ES hybrid) firmware? I guess we'll have to see if the power supply in the unit is the same too...

The brightness is the only feature I'd miss from the 500ES (shooting for a 165" 1.3 gain screen). I'd especially think the brightness penalty would be noticeable in 3D. I've never seen a dynamic Iris I've liked so I'm happy to lose that classic spec sheet enhancer and pocket the difference (it's nice to see Manni01 agrees too). Perhaps someone should start an official 300ES thread for question/answers since this is supposed to Cedia questions? Or will someone bounce this hypothetical question off a technical guy at the Sony booth for me next week?

My guess is the power supply is the same but limited by firmware. If this comes with a 230W bulb I guarantee you it's the same once used by current JVC projectors which is the OSRAM 230W version. The VW500ES used OSRAM bulbs from the same family that JVC used. The good news is that the bulbs should be significantly cheaper and very reliable
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post #52 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Its been discussed in the 300 thread. Seegs insist the bulb will be the same 265 watt one that is in the 500/600. he is most likely wrong. It for a variety of bulb rating reasons has to be a bulb that matches the specs and that is a 230 watt bulb. But if the power supplies and the cooling is the same in the 300 as in the 500/600, it is highly likely you could change the bulb and get more lumens out but that will depend on the bulb voltage of the projector in high lamp mode.

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post #53 of 115 Old 09-03-2014, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Its been discussed in the 300 thread. Seegs insist the bulb will be the same 265 watt one that is in the 500/600. he is most likely wrong. It for a variety of bulb rating reasons has to be a bulb that matches the specs and that is a 230 watt bulb. But if the power supplies and the cooling is the same in the 300 as in the 500/600, it is highly likely you could change the bulb and get more lumens out but that will depend on the bulb voltage of the projector in high lamp mode.

I never "insisted", I simply said it seems logical that they wouldn't change it. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. But like the other bulbs I've mentioned, even though they're rated for higher wattage/output you can still run them at lower wattages with no issue. I think that seems like the most logical thing to do here seeing how they know this current bulb's track record for longevity and heat output. Going with a new bulb and keeping the same chassis/cooling solution could cause unforeseen issues.

I have put in a request with Sony for more information. It seems awfully odd that the 500ES/600ES bulb is now labeled as discontinued. It isn't even listed on Sony's US website anymore and it's officially labled as "discontinued" on their UK website. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the 300ES bulb is what they'll be selling to the 500ES/600ES owners from here on out.

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post #54 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 01:35 AM
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To get back on topic, most of my initial questions have been answered with yesterday's info release at IFA, so I'd like to add the following to the list:


- Will the game mode present on the 300ES be made available to the 500/600ES via f/w update? As it's more or less the same machine, I don't see why the upper model shouldn't get that. [edit: apparently it should be]
- Is there still a manual iris on the 300ES? The answer has to be yes, but just to be sure we can still control light output in the new model. [edit: there is NO manual iris on the 300ES and the native on/off was measured by Cine4home from 6000:1 (D65 max zoom) to 10000:1 (uncalibrated min zoom)].
- Is there a way to adjust gamma control points internally (not just chose a set curve) or do we still have to use the Sony PC software for that? [edit: apparently the 500ES wasn't compatible with the PC software but the 300ES and the 500ES with a fw update will be, cf cine4home]


That's all I can think of for now.

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post #55 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 08:57 AM
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Is it indeed confirmed that the DI has been eliminated?

If that's the case, this would be a huge deal breaker because the on-off contrast ratio of 20,000:1 is smaller than that of my six-year old PJ. Too bad, as I thought it would be perfect time to upgrade my PJ.
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post #56 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
Is it indeed confirmed that the DI has been eliminated?

If that's the case, this would be a huge deal breaker because the on-off contrast ratio of 20,000:1 is smaller than that of my six-year old PJ. Too bad, as I thought it would be perfect time to upgrade my PJ.
Yes DI has been suppressed but you can't compare overall contrast with an older projector (or any other projector) that way because ANSI contrast is much better on these.


For example a six year old JVC will have 50000:1 on/off at best with the iris fully closed but and ANSI contrast of 250:1. The 300ES will have 20000:1 on/off but an ANSI of 450:1. [edit: I made these estimations when I incorrectly thought that the 300ES would have a manual iris and that the on/off specs mentioned of 20000:1 seemed legit as it was close to what I measured with a 500ES; it's since been established that there is no manual iris on the 300ES and that the max native on/off is around 10000:1 (uncalibrated). While the general observations below still stand, it's likely not as true for the 300ES as it is for the 500ES].


So in low APL scenes and for absolute black levels, the JVC wins, but for all other content the SONY [edit: 500ES, not 300ES] is on par or ahead.


I compared a 500ES without the dynamic iris (20000:1 on/off, 450:1 ANSI) to my rs45 (40000:1 on/off and 300:1 ANSI) and I could live with it happily. I wouldn't have been able to live with the 95ES without the DI (and couldn't live with the DI either due to the artifacts it causes).


Bottom line is you need to watch these, the on/off specs doesn't tell the whole story as far as overall contrast is concerned.
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post #57 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 10:18 AM
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Two of my questions above have been answered in this article in French linked by safe91 in the other 300ES thread: there will be internal gamma controls to edit the gamma curves (great news) and along with the game mode this feature should be made available in the higher models (also great news).
http://www.hdlandblog.com/2014/09/so...ers-tests.html
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post #58 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Yes DI has been suppressed but you can't compare overall contrast with an older projector because ANSI contrast is much better on these.


For example a six year old JVC will have 50000:1 on/off at best with the iris fully closed but and ANSI contrast of 250:1. The 300ES will have 20000:1 on/off but an ANSI of 450:1.


So in low APL scenes and for absolute black levels, the JVC wins, but for all other content the SONY is on par or ahead.


Bottom line is you need to watch these, the on/off specs doesn't tell the whole story as far as overall contrast is concerned.
On/off will not be 20000:1. More like 8000:1 if you're at the telephoto end of the zoom range and 6000:1 at max zoom.

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post #59 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
On/off will not be 20000:1. More like 8000:1 if you're at the telephoto end of the zoom range and 6000:1 at max zoom.
If you say so. When did you measure one, and how?
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post #60 of 115 Old 09-04-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
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If you say so. When did you measure one, and how?
This is the same light engine as the 500ES albeit a less powerful lamp. It doesn't have a DI or manual iris. Those are the measurements cine4home got for the 500ES. And there's no way Sony will give us more contrast for less money.

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