Optoma offers a new version of its HD91, HD91 + on. This is always a 1080P DLP LED but with a slightly increased brightness and a contrast improves. The hull is also slightly modified. The price should stay the same around 3000 €.
This unit should be available in the US and in Europe.
1500 lumens with standard lens and a RGB light engine is a good achivement at this price. If Optoma has resolved the light modulating (iris) problems this may be a winner.
Krain, is the HD91+ a copy of the HD93 but with higher lumens?
Optoma has a good marketing dept, they write checks that their engineers can't cash..
it's not going to put out anywhere near 1500 lumens, especially once it's calibrated. They would also need a major overhaul of the optical engine just to get decent native, that's before they overhaul the jumpy LED dimming which I found intolerable and ended up turning it off.
I was excited to see the HD91 last year and it ended up being one of the most disappointing projectors I've seen in a while, especially at that price point.
Which begs the question -- how in the world did it get descent reviews from the two main British sites and some big American review sites? Yes, I know all about advertising dollars but really!
It seems that the the concensus is this projector will be no good, that will make the price more affordable for those willing to take bait. Personally I dont like the look of calibrated displays as based on the plasmas' that I have seen, they seem to lack brightness and pop. I enjoy a saturated and contrasty picture and if the HD91+ can produce a watchable picture at 1500 lumens I believe a few non-videophiles like myself will give it a try.
I am however skeptical as the LED power consumption is practically the same as the older HD91. The new light engine & lens would need a roughly 50+% boost in efficiency to see this jump in lumen output. I am starting to doubt Optoma's 1500 lumen Claim.
I think the consensus is that there's nothing to suggest (other than Optoma Marketing) that it will be significantly different than the HD91, and the HD91 had maybe $1000 class performance (if not $500 class) with a $3500 asking price.
Personally I dont like the look of calibrated displays as based on the plasmas' that I have seen, they seem to lack brightness and pop. I enjoy a saturated and contrasty picture and if the HD91+ can produce a watchable picture at 1500 lumens I believe a few non-videophiles like myself will give it a try.
Uncalibrated projectors don't look "wrong" in the same way as uncalibrated flat panels. Uncalibrated projectors have a very blue/green hue to the image. If you want a bright image, the BenQ W1070 is significantly brighter than the HD91 and about 1/4 the cost. Probably a better overall picture too. Or the BenQ W7000 is even better image quality and it's twice as bright calibrated, and close to three times as bright uncalibrated (in it's blue/green "Dynamic" mode).
I think you need to take a look at a "calibrated" projector before you jump to conclusions about the implications of that word.
If someone like Zombie started his own review site and starting publishing projector reviews etc. -- would I pay to read his reviews? Yes! The site would have to buy its own product and sell it at a lose and attempt to make its revenues from subscribers and advertisers (probably not projector manufacturers). Why doesn't AVS do this? Obviously the reviews will come later after the product has been released; however, if a lot of people are waiting for the AVS review then the lack of sales in the meantime is the manufacturers' problem. AV Forms publishes its own reviews but I don't think they're independent or critical enough.
Why don't you team up with Zombie and do You Tube reviews? Just joking.
Considering this is LED based I don't think this will have that classic green push at max lumen output. But that doesn't mean color will look good. To get substantially more lumen output an LED projector can use a form of overlapping. That means instead of each RGB LED being flashed sequentially, the individual color flashes overlap one another to an extent. This increases the amount of light output but it does wonky things to color reproduction. I suspect if Optoma is claiming a lumen increase they are using some sort of overlapping technique to get that extra brightness.
This is very informative, it also seems like a very sleazy method for increasing the light output. Is it even possible to properly calibrate such a display?
..................you mentioned that you didn't like calibrated plasmas. My question to you was, how were you looking at them? Were you comparing them directly to uncalibrated (much brighter) sets side by side? In such a circumstance the brightness difference outweighs almost anything else, since the dimmer picture will look dull. Where as when looked at on it's own, in a proper environment it would most likely look great...............
It was a panasonic plasma in a light controlled demo room, I ended up taking the Samsung which had a more OLED like picture and looked better to my eyes even in the uncalibrated state.
..............So this is where it gets tricky. Short answer, the best picture you'll get out of a projector is a calibrated one, and actually that pretty much applies to any display. The problems you get when your display is "uncalibrated" generally all fall around color reproduction, be it color balance (white balance) or actual color errors. The reason you "lose" so much light when you calibrate is because most displays are way off of standard, they usually have way too much green/blue and not enough red. Their color temperature is too "Cool". You can't increase the red, so you have to reduce the green/blue which drops light, sometimes substantially (just ask Epson or Panasonic). The other problem is they often don't track white balance well across brightness range (grayscale tracking). Which means you might have a lot of green push in the bright areas, and red push in shadows, eg shadows look red and clouds green. Calibration will fix, or greatly reduce all of that..........................
Well said, I am now a partial convert as it seems that projectors have unique issues that can only be resolved through calibration. I say "partial" because I do like a saturated and high-contrast picture (HDR comes to mind), therefore I will likely request to have some accuracy traded for a brighter and more saturated picture using a balanced approach with equal saturation across across the primaries.
...........The point is, projectors are a part of a system, and you have to make sure all of the parts work well together. That's how you end up with a good picture, you don't oversize your screen to where you have to consider running in an "ugly" uncalibrated mode, you go with a smaller screen or brighter projector.................
This is the question of the day, "bigger picture or more accurate picture"? my vote is for a bigger picture all day long and this is where in my opinion the LCD & LCOS camps (Sony aside) are having some trouble. Projectors should have enough calibrated light output for larger size screens with a manual iris that can be used to reduce output for small to medium size screens. Given a reasonable range of 150" max diagonal, one should not have to choose between one or the other.
Projectors should not weigh a ton either and it seems that some progress can be made in reducing weight. Is it really necessary to have a lowly mid-range, 1000 lumen projector, weighing close to 40lbs.
I had a tough time calibrating the HD91. I could turn the LED dimming off and get a half decent greyscale calibration but when it was turned on, the greyscale could vary widely depending on which IRE level was being displayed. lower IRE 5-25 was also difficult and didn't track well with the typical 80/30 calibration.
It also wasn't really possible to get a close R709 setting, saturation levels at 75/50/25 had some high dE's on the primaries and secondaries, it seemed to struggle most with magenta and cyan.
The polar opposite of this is the Planar/Runco .95 projectors which are very close out of the box. In 2015, this should be a basic expectation of a projector in this price range. JVC finally caught up to Sony and Runco in this area with good out of the box color settings.
When the new Optoma LED's are released, I'd like to see if there are any, much needed improvements in this area. Throw in noticeably better contrast as well and less obvious LED dimming. And less noise from the power supply during LED dimming. And brighter 3D too. And....
So how does the HD91+ relate to the HD92/93?. And is the claimed 1500 Lumens before or after taking into consideration the H-K effect? In other words is it "the equivelant of 1500ANSI from a lamp-driven projector"?...or are they claiming this number to be the starting brightness before allowing for H-K?
The HK effect sounds a lot better in a white paper than it does in reality. The basic principle states that when colors are more saturated, our eyes interpret this as being brighter. This theory isn't exclusive to LED's, there's a number of UHP projectors capable of over-saturating the color gamut in a similar way to LED projectors 'native' color space.
A good example is comparing a Runco 750 LED vs. a Planar 8150. same projectors with the exception of the light source. Both calibrated to R709 and brightness matched, the Runco will appear no brighter than the Planar.
it's basically a marketing tool to make a buyer think the LED projector is brighter than it really is. As we've seen recently, the LED's have hit a bit of brick wall with calibrated lumen output, so turning to discussion of the HK effect is a good way of dodging an engineering challenge.
I will be surprised if any of these new Optoma's can actually crank out 1000 D65/R709 lumens.
I came upon this thread whilst trying to find a low-temperature projector for my post production studio - I thought the HD91+ might be it. I need a projector which can reproduce an HD, Rec709 image closely enough that it doesn't look too dissimilar to my broadcast panel (Flanders Scientific LM-2461W). I also need it to be very quiet and hopefully cool-running, hence my interest in LED technology.
I've always wondered why Optoma axed the HD83 MkII otherwise known as the HD8300 MkII, I feel they should have retained it and continue to improve it. Overall, it was such a good projector in terms of price and performance. I hope the HD91+ can take its place. I will certainly be interested in the HD91+ if Optoma has taken serious steps towards listening to its customers and coming up with something decent instead of churning out a new model every few months. After all, this is their top of the line projector and in the current competitive climate, it does need serious credibility in terms of performance, useful features, brightness and price. If the HD91+ ends up as another insignificant tweak, I may consider Sony or JVC although I much prefer DLP engines.
Look at the difference in data sheets... Perhaps OPTOMA has listened to users and corrected faults with HD91+? It seems the focus of the data sheet has changed to image quality instead of just eco-friendly and easy to use.
OLD HD91 data sheet http://www.optomausa.com/webresources/files/support/2343_HD91_Optoma_Datasheet.pdf LED light source produces a wider color gamut for bright, vibrant images with deeper color saturation and never a bulb to buy or replace Full 3D capability plus 2D to 3D conversion. Enjoy any content in 3D PureMotion technology for sharp, clear, judder free video UltraDetail technology further enhances visible detail Full lens shift and 1.9x Zoom Ratio for maximum installation flexibility Economical to operate. Consumes 53% less power than comparable lamp based models.
NEW HD91+ data sheet http://www.optomausa.com/uploads/datasheet/HD91+-DS-en-US.pdf Set it and forget it – 20,000 hour LED light source maintains brightness and displays consistent grayscale and color for the life of the projector Impressive motion handling and clarity with PureMotion II and Ultra Detail processing Ease of installation featuring high quality center mounted 1.9X zoom lens and horizontal / vertical shift Reference quality 2D and 3D high definition performance Excellent out-of-box image with multiple pre-set selections, extensive calibration control and ISFccc daytime / nighttime settings
Perhaps they've listened. We'll only know when someone who knows what they're doing gets their hands on one. If it's going to have subjectively good 2D performance it needs to achieve at least 2000:1 native contrast at full brightness and come with a good dynamic LED dimming solution to improve contrast performance with lower APL content. Calibrated brightness needs to increase a few hundred lumens too. It's a tall order and I don't know if coretronics/optoma has it in them to deliver this to us.
Well, I think the new datasheet proves they have listened; people's complaints with the old HD91 are right there, addressed on the new HD91+ datasheet. The question is, were the engineers able to follow through with enough improvement to satisfy user needs based on what they heard? Another 200-300 calibrated lumens would go a LONG way to making this projector a great buy. While the original HD91 was okay in brightness for 2D, it needs another 200-300 lumens to really shine for 3D. Better LED dimming algorithms (likely mostly a software issue) could address contrast. Recall that Sim2 based a $14,000 projector on this style of design (and shipped with "incomplete" software per Sim2, soon to be upgraded), so I think there must be some potential there.
I think the hardware and software is out there to do LED right. The DPI Cine LED 1000 for instance does it quite well, unfortunately without 3D. While it may not match the very best single chip DLP projectors, I think the potential is there in the HD91+ to do LED DLP right even at $4k given the falling costs of the components needed for 1080p LED DLP given the arrival of 4k and laser light source. I think a satisfying picture at this price point is possible - at least for 120" and smaller screens.
So you think because they've reworded their spec sheet the projector has to be better? Let's wait to see a production unit before we say it's better.
I will say that I have heard Coretronics has new LEDs. If I remember correctly the diode takes up twice as much area on the PCB so this should in turn increase lumen output. As far as contrast goes they need to redesign the light engine and/or go with a better DMD if that want better contrast, especially if we're talking an increase in brightness from the LEDs. The LED modulation algorithms need a lot of work and that costs money. If they can't get their "DI" to work properly this will be another blah projector in my opinion. For a DLP projector to be even remotely competitive in the $3000+ it needs to have excellent dynamic contrast algorithms. So even with the increase in lumens, without a better DI implementation, it won't put out a "reference" image.
No. I said that rewording their spec sheet proves they listened. If they did not listen the complaints people had may not have been addressed on the spec sheet; the spec sheet would probably be a rehash of the HD91 spec sheet. It is very obvious this new HD91+ spec sheet was worded to address complaints people had with the original HD91. Right there, front and center they highlight image quality not once, but twice on the new spec sheet and also talk about ISF modes, etc. This was not even touched upon at all on the old spec sheet.
Whether they actually engineered a better-enough product based on the complaints they heard is a completely different ballgame - and obviously we don't know that yet.
On another note, does anyone know what the light falloff curve was on the original HD91's zoom lens?
My projector positioning really only allows for about a 2.1-2.2 throw distance ratio. This is about midrange zoom for the HD91. I know at full telephoto the HD91 had ~50% brightness loss, but is the decrease in brightness linear or was most of the dropoff near the extreme of the telephoto end?
edit: is a pretty linear dropoff, about 25% decrease in brightness at mid-zoom. This means I'd need about a 400-500 calibrated lumen increase from the old model to fit my needs... which is HIGHLY unlikely to happen. I am guessing more like 250 lumen improvement for this HD91 model.
Up until last Friday I was using a JVC X30 PJ. I was hoping to move to the Epson laser but decided not to go for first gen laser tech without true native 4K at the £6k price point.
I was perfectly happy with the x30 but due to my viewing habits, in the last year I eat thru 4 bulbs at £300 a pop. So wanted to look for a pj that has a solid state light source.
My dealer Andy Bone of Premier AV had recently had Optoma bring up their latest offering to his room. Now his room is equipped with a £20k Highlite projector. So he knows a good picture and when he said his jaw was on the floor from the quality of the Optoma and the fact it's half the cost of the Epson, well he had my interest. The HD91+ is an LED based unit and comes with a 20000 hours or 5 year warranty on the light engine. So I decided to give the PJ a whirl. Placed my order and asked for it to be delivered last Friday before midday. Which Optoma kindly obliged.
Now, I'm all about audio really, so this review will not be long winded and full of tech details. I'm colour blind but do know and appreciate a good picture.
First impressions of the HD91+ was that it's built very well. Nice and sturdy but also very very small. Weighing in at 7KG. This made mounting the PJ on the universal ceiling bracket a doddle and without assistance.
Setup was very simple. Focus, zoom and lense shift are all manual. Which is fine as it saves money and once done won't need to be adjusted.
The menu system is very simple to navigate.
The PJ out of the box does indeed need some tweaking. But after 5 mins I had the image looking as good as I'm going to get it without calibration.
The image is incredibly detailed. Razor sharp and no rainbow effects or digital artefacts. It's black levels are no where near as good as the JVC but the jvc can be a little over dark at times. Losing detail that I can now see.
The image has gone from a very cinema like picture to that of like a good plasma or LCD flat panel. Even with my lighting turned up to the max the image remains bright and full of pop.
Now I do have to say that the image needs calibration. I cannot get skin tones natural. All seems a little overly red saturated. But from reviews of the HD91 I'm very optimistic that once I get Ricky J of Kalibrate down to work his magic, the image will be very impressive indeed.
And I'll comment on post calibration once completed. And the best thing about this PJ is that once calibrated, that is it for the next 20000 hours. Whereas with the lamp based PJs you really should calibrate every 200-300 hours.
Now a couple of negative points....
The PJ clearly has a slow processor. I'd like to have spent a little more money and gotten a fast processor. This seems to cause lag when using the Dynamic Black options. Most lamp based Pjs use dynamic iris to control black levels. The HD91+ uses lamp dimming which can be a little slow to respond. Sometimes taking half to a whole second to dim down which can be somewhat distracting. Especially when watching something like Hannibal. The image constantly going from dim to bright. So I have decided to opt for no dynamic black and live with slightly washed out blacks. Again this may not have been so noticeable should I have come from a non JVC PJ.
Another negative and one that really erks me is the PJS audible noise levels. It's noisier than the JVC x30, but not by much. But what's really annoying to me, in my very low noise floor room is that the sound is not consistent. It fluctuates. And on scenes of very bright output there is a very high pitched whine coming from the PJ. I don't know if this is from the DLP chip, led or fan. But doesn't sound like fan as it sounds more electrical fizzy type noise.
But these negs are very minor really. The image quality, detail and depth are just outstanding. And the fact it works well in a high brightness environment is a big plus. The JVC in a bright room was unwatchable.
Another negative and one that really erks me is the PJS audible noise levels. It's noisier than the JVC x30, but not by much. But what's really annoying to me, in my very low noise floor room is that the sound is not consistent. It fluctuates. And on scenes of very bright output there is a very high pitched whine coming from the PJ. I don't know if this is from the DLP chip, led or fan. But doesn't sound like fan as it sounds more electrical fizzy type noise.
The older HD91 had this noise too, and this is a deal killer for me as I am extremely sensitive to these type of noises.
I heard this is a common issue with LED pjs. Oh well, on to the next one!
The noise you are describing sounds like capacitor/coil/transformer whine. You should call them and ask for service, though it's entirely possible that it is just a byproduct of the parts they use.
I think all we need is a sheet of paper issued by the manufacturer stating that the product is reference quality and performs excellently straight out of the box. What more does one need? A advertising prose writer (after all we are not talking real specs just descriptive quality jargon) like she is sexy and has a great personality, means absolutely nothing. ANSI is bad enough with respect to some specs but there is absolutely no certifying authority for reference quality or excellency out of the box. Many reviewers specify a particular projector as being their reference quality but that doesn't mean much either. What does reference quality mean? The absolute best in some parameter?. What is needed with respect to a specific parameter? I suspect reference quality would vary depending on what the reviewer owns and his/her experience. My projector is my reference. With respect to some parameters other projectors are better but mostly are worse. Yes sir re. This new Optoma could be my reference is I lost my mind, sold my projector, and bought one. I doubt it would be better than my projector except in a few regards where single chip DLP exceeds the performance characteristics of reflective LCD technology. Regarding excellency out of the box, its Optoma, let it work out of the box and not have anything be defective from a material and assembly issue, and that would be Optoma excellence for me.
The same noise was on 2 different HD91's I had here and was annoying to hear when the 'iris' was trying to modulate the LED's. It may just be part of their design for this series.
If the HD91+ is still showing slow reaction during the iris activity, it sounds like they didn't do much to improve this. Even at the minimum setting on the HD91, it was quite obvious during APL changes and ended up turning it off since it was distracting in my dark room.
Turning off the iris reveals the low native contrast. This is hard to swallow for $3500 when other competing models range from noticeably better to significantly better in this area. It will be interesting to know the native contrast once it's measured, I want to see if they were able to make any (much needed) improvements here.
Re: color calibration - The HD91 needed a major greyscale calibration. It is achievable with the iris turned off, but it can change drastically when the LED modulation is turned on. Enough to see the swing with live content at various APL levels. The area of primary concern was the color gamut. There was no R709 setting that tracked well at 75/50/25 saturation levels, cyan and magenta suffered the most. This should be a given when the $2,000 Sony HW40 can nail this out of the box. Or the less expensive Epson 5030.
Re: calibrated brightness - also interested to hear the results on the HD91+. After a full color cal, the HD91 could barely crack 600 lumens and dropped to a low ~450 in 3D mode (calibrated behind the glasses).
In terms of 2D performance, it offered no competition to a .95 DLP like the Planar 8130/8150/Runco LS3/LS5. The overall PQ on these projectors is better in every conceivable way vs. the Optoma LED.
it's ironic that the $900 LG LED PF1500 is able to out-muscle the $3500 HD91 by 100 calibrated lumens and it's a PICO projector.. Maybe they will whip up some magic with the HD92+++.
The same noise was on 2 different HD91's I had here and was annoying to hear when the 'iris' was trying to modulate the LED's. It may just be part of their design for this series.
If the HD91+ is still showing slow reaction during the iris activity, it sounds like they didn't do much to improve this. Even at the minimum setting on the HD91, it was quite obvious during APL changes and ended up turning it off since it was distracting in my dark room.
Turning off the iris reveals the low native contrast. This is hard to swallow for $3500 when other competing models range from noticeably better to significantly better in this area. It will be interesting to know the native contrast once it's measured, I want to see if they were able to make any (much needed) improvements here.
Re: color calibration - The HD91 needed a major greyscale calibration. It is achievable with the iris turned off, but it can change drastically when the LED modulation is turned on. Enough to see the swing with live content at various APL levels. The area of primary concern was the color gamut. There was no R709 setting that tracked well at 75/50/25 saturation levels, cyan and magenta suffered the most. This should be a given when the $2,000 Sony HW40 can nail this out of the box. Or the less expensive Epson 5030.
Re: calibrated brightness - also interested to hear the results on the HD91+. After a full color cal, the HD91 could barely crack 600 lumens and dropped to a low ~450 in 3D mode (calibrated behind the glasses).
In terms of 2D performance, it offered no competition to a .95 DLP like the Planar 8130/8150/Runco LS3/LS5. The overall PQ on these projectors is better in every conceivable way vs. the Optoma LED.
it's ironic that the $900 LG LED PF1500 is able to out-muscle the $3500 HD91 by 100 calibrated lumens and it's a PICO projector.. Maybe they will whip up some magic with the HD92+++.
MSRP on the Sony and the 5030 is the same, but Epson has had two sale prices on the 5030, $2,299 and $1,999. The Sony when on sale is the same price as the epson. Both are currently on sale for $1,999.
And maybe someone will stumble across a projector thread in this forum where you and I haven't posted.
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