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post #1 of 27 Old 04-18-2001, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I can pay 6k for a Sanyo XP21N. I like the high lumen output and MLA. I will be mostly displaying wide content. To display 4:3, I will require a 4:3 screen or a scaler to display 4:3 within 16:9. The scaler will also provide me with 3/2 pulldown.

or

I can pay 6500 and wait a week or two until the (unreviewed) PLV-60 ships. It will display 4:3 squeezed in it's 16:9 display. It has 1300 lumens vs 2500 (XP21n), No MLA. It still does not have 3/2 pulldown so I would most likely have to save my pennies and buy a HTPC or Progressive DVD player.

Cmon folks! I need feedback from my fellow HT maniacs!

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post #2 of 27 Old 04-19-2001, 12:27 AM
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From the reviews it does not seem the MLA is helping the XP21N picture anyway, so perhaps (?) we should not be concerned that the PLV-60 does not have MLA.
I expect the PLV-60 to be similar in picture quality to the Sony 10HT but with improved blacks (I hope!). Like some others on this forum, I am almost ready to order the PLV-60 without seeing the reviews. Seems the latest word is that Sanyo will be shipping the end of the month.
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post #3 of 27 Old 04-19-2001, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I have heard many comments about the "screendoor" effect on these units. I have not seen the 18N (No MLA) but the pixels are barely noticeable on the 21N and I am presently only 9-10' away! My guess is the MLA is doing something good.

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post #4 of 27 Old 04-19-2001, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I am going to keep the 21N. Bad scaler and all. The picture is bright, the blacks are deep and the screendoor is nearly zero. The same scaler resides in the PLV-60 so it will be no better. It will have a lot less light output and I am sure, a more visible pixel.

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post #5 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 12:00 AM
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You guessed right about the PLV60 internal processing... others say it is bad. That kills it for me.
Where is my plug & play projector for $7000 !!!!!!!!!?????
PS: Congrats on making a final purchase decision... many of us have not and so our frustration continues.
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post #6 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Another thing, the particular 21N I have sems to have a perfect pixel panel. I paid 6K vs the usual 6500. I can pick up an Iscan pro for 500 to 600 if I shop around.

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post #7 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 06:47 AM
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Wvrich:
Could you provide some details of your installation? How big is the screen, what type (gain), how far back is the projector, etc.?

Do you find the unit too bright for night-time viewing?

Thanks!

Dan

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #8 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 10:13 AM
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The search for the $7k plug-and play projector is not in vain.
Sanyo XP21 for $6k, Quadscan for $1k, plug everything into the Quadscan and play.

If you can find $500 for the iscan, please try to get the Quadscan instead.
When being fed XGA, this projector is phenomenal.

I have seen the XP18 vs the 21 and the MLA DOES make a difference in my opinion, not a $1300 one, but a noticable and apprecible one. IT seems tome that the 21 may have a bit louder fan though (but there is a minor fan buzzing problem with mine to boot, so take that into account).

I agree with the consensus that ANY of the Sanyo;s will need an external scaler, so budget in that extra $1k for a good one from the start.

Watching hockey at night, this projector (the 21n) kicks enough light into the room to make it seem light the room lights are on. I have never found it to be painful or washed out to look at, and that is what matter in my mind.

I think the screen door issue may be a personal thing, as it does not bother me at all, but others seems quite sensitive to it or distubred by it.

dg
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post #9 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 12:32 PM
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"Sanyo XP21 for $6k, Quadscan for $1k, plug everything into the Quadscan and play."

OK, I will seriously consider this combination.
If the screen door is not worse than the Sony 10HT then I will be happy at last.
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post #10 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 12:33 PM
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"Sanyo XP21 for $6k, Quadscan for $1k, plug everything into the Quadscan and play."

OK, I will seriously consider this combination.
If the screen door is not worse than the Sony 10HT then I will be happy at last.
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post #11 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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My current installation is a temporary one while we build a functional addition to the house. One "function" will be a 11' x 20' (almost rectangular except for a small bathroom) windowless room as a home theatre/ music room. The temp setup is an AV cart with the 21N about 11' away from Sherwin williams flat luminous white wall. I guess the gain is .8 to .9. I am sitting at about the same distance as the 21N. I see no real screendoor unless I am trying to see it (I see 20/20). I can soften the focus and it disappears. The picture is a bit bright but I will wait to see when I expand it to a 96" wide screen. I may break down and buy a Grayhawk at some point. How does one attach a neutral density filter to the front anyway?

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post #12 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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PS: Why is the Quadscan better than the Iscan pro???

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post #13 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 07:50 PM
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Does the quadscan have a setting to support a Panamorph or ISCO lense? This would always use the full panel resolution, but allow for a 4:3 image in the middle of a 16:9 screen without removing the lense.

Thanks
Robert


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post #14 of 27 Old 04-20-2001, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep hearing about Quadscan for $1000.00. Where? I see them more like $1800! Where are the 1K Qscans???

Through man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world...

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post #15 of 27 Old 04-21-2001, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wvrich:
I keep hearing about Quadscan for $1000.00. Where? I see them more like $1800! Where are the 1K Qscans???</font>
You can get them right here from AVScience, check Jason's post at:

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003558.html



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post #16 of 27 Old 04-21-2001, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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whats an RM. And what is meant by "B" stock?

Thanks...

Through man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world...

- Saint Arnoldus
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post #17 of 27 Old 04-21-2001, 05:52 PM
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Is the Quadscan a good scaler for a DILA G-15?? And what is a URL to read more about that scaler??

Thx,

-- Cain
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post #18 of 27 Old 04-22-2001, 03:44 PM
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Why would the Quadscan be better than the iscan pro?

I'm no expert, and havent seen the iscan yet, but here are my thoughts.
There are two things that have to be done to your progressive NTSC or DVD image - motion processing/de-interlacing, AND scaling tothe resolution of the projector panel.

Both iscan and Quadscan do the former (the iscan probably better, due to a better chipset), but only the Quadscan does the latter.

Since we have all noted the Sanyo does a poor job of deinterlacing & scaling on it's own (bad internal scaler, right?), I personally figure the best external option is to relieve the Sanyo of as much processing as possible.

The Quadscan feeds my Sanyo a 1024X768 image that it just has to display, but little to no processing.
Demos are available through AVS- as long as they have a warranty be happy & buy- but make sure you get a warranty as they can be a bit flaky (mine burned out as have several) - if you are under warranty, Focus Enhancements are kick ass about service, quick & fast repairs.

dg
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post #19 of 27 Old 04-22-2001, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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What would the iscan feed the sanyo??? Just VGA? SVGA? What?

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post #20 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I know I keep going around and around here:

How much info does a DVD contain for the display? I realize it is 525 lines of Vert scan (480 is close). But what about the horizontal scan? Is there enough info there to fill 1024 pixels? When a DVD is digitized, how much digital info is stored? How many pixels across? Or maybe I should ask that about the MPEG 2 algorithm. What is the best a DVD can do on its horizontal resolution?
My point is if 640 pixels across is pretty close to displaying maximum DVD resolution, then any scaling is just mathematics adding zero new information. If no new info is being added then how would using the Iscan at 640x480p on my 1024x768 display hurt me?

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post #21 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 11:14 AM
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I sugget you do some research on the iScan, and different output formats.
On an XGA projector you get a 16:9 box that uses 576X1024 resolution (so, effectively the full panel width). A SVGA would do 450X800.

So, for XGA, the display resolution is GREATER than the resoltuion on a DVD, and something (some processor) MUST add info to the DVD picture to increase it to your panel resolution, unless you have a "native mode" that only utilizes a portion of your panel.

Point is something has to take the DVD resolution and increase it to fit in your XGA panel. If you use a Quadscan it takes the DVD straight to the XGA resolution. If you use an iScan or progressive DVD it will feed 480p to the projector, and require the projector to upsample it to XGA for display on it;s panel.

If this does not help you gotta get info from others or look around, because if I keep explaining it to you based on my assumptions, you are destined to inheret my biases on the subject.
Goto the "Processor section" and seek for posts comparing the iScan to the Quadscan.

dg
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post #22 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank You... What you have said makes sense.

Now I am wondering if the artifacts and basically jaggy picture will go away if I use just the Iscan? If these artifacts are introduced by the 21N scaler then They will still be here! The Iscan outputs via the VGA input of the projector. Maybe that input will perform better than the component inputs. It seems that there are color (combing) problems with the 21N's scaler/doubler.

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post #23 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 01:39 PM
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Now we're on the same page! I have the same questions about how the iscan would work, and I agree that some artifacts (assuming they are due to the Sanyo's scaling) would still be present with the iscan.
That is precisely why I suggested the Quadscan instead.

However, by the same token, it seems many have tried the Sanyo with excellent results using a 480p source (which indicates that the iScan would work fine).

I do not htink the VGA vs component inputs matter in terms of video quality. Though, they do have differnt controls as the VGA inputs are "computer" and the component is "Video". Basically you have almost all the same configurations & controls, just in differnt menu's.

I liked the Quadscan also because I use lots of sources (VCR, video game systems, NTSC via sat) and the Quadscan can upsample all of my sources so they look pretty decent at worst on my big screen.

E-mail me if you have any more questions, and I will tell you anyhting I can help with.

dg
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post #24 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I borrowed an Iscan Plus (albeit an older version) from a friend. I plan to hook it up (S-video in only) and test it out tonight. I hope to be a able to make a report by morning.

We shall see!

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- Saint Arnoldus
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post #25 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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You know it's a funny story...

I purchased a used Marantz VP-8100 at a ridiculously low price from Ebay. That thing had a great scaler/doubler on board. It had a 700 lumen output and 500:1 contrast ratio. I was actually pretty happy with the picture. It was a bit noisy, leaked light and had trouble with dark scenes as far as I was concerned. I sold it (on Ebay) for just enough (did not take a loss) to buy this 21N.

It's like golf! If I drive the ball I can't putt, If I am putting great I am laying 4 or 5 on the green. I have a great picture as far as contrast and brightness but a lousy scaler! You can't have both for the 6K price! Picture stability is worth quite a lot.

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post #26 of 27 Old 04-23-2001, 09:37 PM
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The iScan outputs 480p (640X480 progressive)
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post #27 of 27 Old 04-24-2001, 08:51 AM
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Perhaps this concept is less strange to me than others, coming from an audiophile background first, but separate processors are NOT a bad thing.
In general you get higher performance for your extra dollars, and win yourself much greater flexibility in the long term.
There are many compromises to any "one box solution" especially when you are seeking ever better performance.

you are correct that there is no $6k projector solution.
However, there is a $7k one, and it involves the Quadscan (or potentially iScan added to the Sanyo).

Scaling technology seems to be improving so rapidly (and with HD-DVD on the horizon) that you would want to leave yourself open to upgrading your scaler in the years to come, while your projector may remain a staple for longer.

dg
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