Refurbished LT155 for cheap! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 02:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to let you guys know, I don't know if they have it all the time, but projectorpeople.com has a refurbed LT155 for $3,399. I know advertising is not allowed, but want to pass this on. Wish I could buy it, but not moving for a year, so won't do me any good. Hope I can find something like this next year!!!!
JOE
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post #2 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 10:52 AM
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Joe-
I don't think refurbs are a good deal. These are used, returned projectors and can often times be a hassle. Sometimes they are returned for intermittent problems that don't show up when they are tested and then sent back out again with the same problem. Sometimes there are minor problems with them that would be ok for a business user but not for a home theatre use. You also don't know how many hours on the bulb and that means money lost to replace it sooner than you would with new. Finally there is the warranty. The refurb comes with a one year warranty while a new NEC comes with three years plus instant replacement during the first two years. A new unit costs $4295 I think a new bulb, a virgin projector, 2 extra years of warranty plus the 2 year instant replacement is more than worth the extra $900.

Lenny

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post #3 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 11:24 AM
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Not true Lenny..

Refurbed units are the best value....current models yield warranties many times equal to the actual new warranty...I've sold 100's of them....my customers are not calling me with problems any more or less than calls I get from new units(Which is very few)..plus most NEC remanss come with one year insta-care replacement. Customers can use the savings to actually pay for DVD players or line-doublers, screens or to buy their wife something to keep her happy too.

Alan here sells tons of Class B items with warranties and HE offers great values and service. I think he has like Quadscans for what $1,000 give or take...and many other projectors from NEC...to whomever...

If you want value on a tight budget or if you just want Value, remans are the way to go..also know as Renewed..Class B..
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post #4 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 11:35 AM
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John-
I appreciate your opinion although you word it as the truth. I am not sure that you are qualified to state more than an opinion. I stand by my post- to me it easily worth $900 to receive a bulb with zero hours on it, a projector with no history, a 3 year warranty versus 1 year and instant care for 2 years. By the way the bulb is rated at 1000 hours and if you get a unit with 500 hours on it you have already lost $250 of your so called savings.
Lenny

[This message has been edited by leckian (edited 04-20-2001).]

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post #5 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 12:07 PM
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Is it a FACT that refurb projectors come with used bulbs?

But even if they do you're assuming the worst case - 1000 hr bulb life. My vt540 has a 3000 hour bulb life in Eco mode.

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post #6 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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John,
That's what I'm talking about! I thought it was a good deal, I love refurbished stuff, nice and cheap.

"or to buy their wife something to keep her happy too" That is probably the funniest thing I have read on this forum. So true, but still funny, if you think about it. Don't have a wife (too young), but have a girlfriend. And every piece of equip I buy, she needs a pair of shoes. I wish I was joking but I am not.
JOE
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post #7 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 01:28 PM
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I've bought refurbs and open box all my life. I don't pay retail. Give me at least a year warranty and most times I'm happy. I've worked in the electronics (computer) industry for the past 20 years in manufacturing, bench service and field service in 3 LARGE electronics firms. If you think even the brand new product you pull out of a box is virgin you are mistaken.

Sure, many have gone thru the process with no defects but I have repaired many a board that didn't pass a test fixture, much less burn in. 40+hours a week times 3 years on one new product assembly line, then multiply that by 7 techs and 3 shifts, however many tons of boards that comes out to. And this wasn't at Joe Blows computers. It was a very large IC/electronics manufacturer doing contract mfg. for another very large computer company. Thru hole and surface mount with excellent equipment and staff. You see some interesting stuff out there http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Sure the bad apples are there. But if I have a good warranty/company I can document an intermittent problem and climb the corporate ladder to get it fixed, darn sure of that. Can I buy new, sure. I could pay cash for just about anything I want to buy. Hmmm, wonder if that has anything to do with buying secondhand stuff?

Actually, neither side is "right". Some people don't mind a little hassle for a bargain and some want perfection. No problem, just buy whichever and ENJOY!!!
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post #8 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 01:38 PM
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How many remanufactured units must I buy and sell before my opinion is actual truth? It is not my opinion that the majority of NEC refurbs and other manufacturers put a new lamp in their units. I have never seen more than say 20 hours on a lamp and most are new. I actually think that the number one reason for reman was a blown lamp anyway.

These units do not arrive dinged up or damaged or sub par in anyway. Customers could not distinguish between new and renewed except that it says remaned on the box and the boxes come with black printing instead of red.

$900 on a $3,400 projector is a lot of money. The vast majority of purchasers are not looking to spend extra money. Of course some like new merchandise as well. If you'd rather spend $900 more thats your choice.

I will always continue to to sell Remaned as long as they are available.Keep in mind remaned were once the so called $900 more projector that had a problem. You can have a problem with a new or renewed unit. I have a renewed SOny 10HT here that has a perfect panel. I saw that only a few times on the so-called A-stock.Bottom-line is. I have no more problems with remaned as I have with new. (and I have very few with any in total.

The $3,400 on the LT155 is a great deal..I can't even touch it.

Renewed rules the value world of home and office projection. Its always easier to sell new only because new are usually always available. Remans are only available now and then. That is a good thing. If they were always available you would have to wonder.

Regards,
John
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post #9 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 01:39 PM
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Brand new or refurb? Hmmm. Guess which one I would choose? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

But I'm all for folks who buy brand new merchandise for a
simple reason that was best explained to me by my Chevrolet
dealer cousin. He says so far no manufacturer has figured out
how to build a used car.

Bob

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post #10 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 01:55 PM
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The refurb has one advantage over new. The problems in many cases have been documented and repaired.

Buying the refurb from a trusted source with a great warranty that comes at no extra cost is highly recommended. Also, since it is a refurb, the vendor should have a minimal re-stocking charge policy.

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post #11 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 02:14 PM
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John-
What is the truth? You try to say that refurb bulbs are new yet the dealer selling these refurbs clearly states the bulbs are used. The truth seems to be different from what you state. On a bulb that is rated from 2000-4000 hours maybe the bulb isn't a big issue. On this projector the bulb is rated for only 1000 hours and a new one costs $495-Pay me now or pay me later. As far as the warranty goes 1 year comes and goes very quickly, but 3 years is a good long time and for 900.00 I'd rather get a new bulb, a new projector and 2 years of extra protection.
Lenny



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post #12 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 05:15 PM
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All lamps in all remanufactured units are new is not a tru statement. I find that with NEC many of them coem with new lamps.I have never had a unit with over 50 hours total on the lamp (typical is 0-20 hours).


Regards,
JOhn
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post #13 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kelliot:
The refurb has one advantage over new. The problems in many cases have been documented and repaired.

</font>
I agree. I have purchased refurbs many times and have never had any problems. Many new items come off the line and are either never tested or have a very short burn-in period. Most new electronic items will fail (if they are going to) in the first few hours of use. I look at a refurb as a unit that has passed that initial failure and has probably been looked at and tested more than a new item. Now that’s not to say every refurb is of the highest quality, just that I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if the price/warranty were good.
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post #14 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 09:41 PM
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I'm gonna ammend my post after seeing that this particular deal (lt155) may have high bulb life. A questionable bulb life value could be a deal killer or price reducer for sure at today's bulb prices.

I just bought a refurb VT540 with less than 40 bulb hours(I think I calculated close). If I get anywhere near the forecast 2000 I'll be extremely happy as any projector could have a early life bulb failure not covered by the projector warranty. My 540 bulb warranty sheet states 2000 hours or 6 months. My guess is the 6 months will come first.

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post #15 of 24 Old 04-20-2001, 10:37 PM
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Are there any specifications to meet in a refurb? I don't know if there is an agreed upon definition. I would think that all refurbs are not built the same as an A-stock, otherwise shouldn't the manufacturer offer the same type of warranty? They must be afraid that they are more "prone" to damage than new goods.

If one did receive a refurb, how could they inspect it to determine why it was sent back in? In other words, let's say someone gave you a projector that looked perfectly new. Is there a way to tell it was a refurb? Of course lamp hours would be a clue, but anything else? I'm sure they'd replace the outer casing if that was changed, but what about the optics inside?
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post #16 of 24 Old 04-21-2001, 04:39 AM
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Hal,

If I put a reman in a new box there is no way for you to tell for sure that it is not factory fresh Grade A. IF it failed early on you wouldn;t really question the projecgtor usage timer being an hour or so. The lamp could be reset. The total projector usage timer is harder to reset and is done at the factory. I am not sure they ever reset that timer. Cleary if the lamp reads zero and the total usage reads 10+ hours than it was not a factory fresh unit. Keep in mind some companies may repair the units and send them out as A-stock. I do not know who would do it , but I bet it does happen see KBONCV post above.. Also NEC repacks the units and it states remanufactured on the BOX. Reman exterior printing is typicaly different than that of Brand new , but you would have to know what new packing looks like in order to know.

My argument here is not that sometimes its worth it to spend extra money for factory fresh instead of Renewed or Class B items. My point here in my posts is that the factory renewed items that I have dealt with (100's of projectors not 2-3 but hundreds) have never exhibited anything close to damaged, scratched up, only 1/2 lamp life and frequent problems. Keep in mind I do not buy Renewed units from all manufacturers. IF I would not buy their units factroy new..I do not want their renewed units either.

Regards,
john
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post #17 of 24 Old 04-21-2001, 02:22 PM
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Yeah,Rick..I forgot about that, but of course you have a choice to send yours in for repair.
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post #18 of 24 Old 04-21-2001, 03:28 PM
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The one you receive back is still technically a refurb then since it was sent back for warranty http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I noted that you talked about projector usage hours, which is a different hour indicator than the lamp use indicator. Do you know if they ever reset it to 0 (after they refurb it?) I would think that would be a lie if they reset it unless they replaced everything inside. If a projector with 0 on the projector and 0 on the lamp was received, could that be perceived as receiving a A-stock? Or just possibly a very new refurb?
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post #19 of 24 Old 04-21-2001, 04:55 PM
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Many of us who received the Viewsonic Davis clone refurbs last
year from Berway were convinced that those had to be brand new
projectors. You could put them under a microscope and you could
not tell any difference between those and new condition. They
were perfect in every way. New lamps. All the accesories were
new and factory sealed.
I think this resulted from one of two scenarios.
Either...
-1- the projectors
had been sold before and were discovered to have a defect and
were immediately returned to the factory. But if this was the
case when they were sold to us again as "refurbs" they supplied
us with new accesory sets. And if they were refurbs why did they
need to do that? OR...
-2- (and this is my speculation) I think it's possible that the
manufacturers occasionally want to blow out the remaining inventory
of unsold out of production units and they offer them as discounted "refurbs".
They do this because they don't want to be perceived as selling new
products (even though discontinued) for a hell of a lot less than their current line. So they call them "refurbs".

Am I out in left field with this, John?

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post #20 of 24 Old 04-21-2001, 05:56 PM
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Hal,

All you need is a bad power block or bad lamp and the unit will never light and the timer will never record a full hour of use. This may occur everynow and then. The thing I do not see on the unit timers is hundreds of hours. Keep in mind to I do not record these in a diary, but I check each projector before I send it out so I know the customer will not get a DOA or some other surprise. I even offer to examine NEW units too, but I give the customer his choice. Some do not want anybody to crack open the box.

BOB,

I imagine that could be the case but I have no first or secondhand knowledge about the Davis clones. My best experiences have been with NEC. MAnufacturers don;t like to bend their dealers out of shape so...they might of said "call em refurbs and drop the price". Or they might of said...hey I know how we can get some of Robert Woods' money. First they thought let's drop the price..and some said yeah but he won;t beleive it ...better call it a refurb and he'll bite.

REgards,
john

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post #21 of 24 Old 04-21-2001, 09:59 PM
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Don't forget that NEC states that if you buy one of their brand new, NON-refurbs, and it breaks during the warranty period, that the Insta-Care replacement you receive WILL BE A REFURB. How disappointing to pay all that extra money for a brand new projector, then have it die in a month, and be replaced with a refurb.

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post #22 of 24 Old 04-22-2001, 08:21 AM
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A a tech, and genral whiz dude, I tend to buy junk where and when I come across it. Most of the time I get something good. So, I might buy 5 trash items and get three of them to work perfectly. All purchsed for a total that approches less than half the value of 'one' new.(whatever the item might be) To be fair, not that many have that option. sometimes I win, somtimes I loose. Generally, I make out like a bandit.

"It's not fair", I hear you say. Well, the price is high... spend the time fighting with trash for a LONG time, and then you finally learn how to make that equation work.

Like buying 5 LCD's with some severely trashed panels and optics. Make three or two working ones out of the five... no problemo. About 5 hours later, and working projectors. It's too bad that sort of bargain is few and far between.

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post #23 of 24 Old 04-22-2001, 09:37 PM
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Well this is certainly an interesting thread, particularly the posts from those of us who are dealers of one sort or another.

Speaking purely as a consumer, I've had good experience buying refurbs. But not for such a paltry markdown. If it isn't 35% or more, I'm not interested. I bought a Denon AVR 5700 for a little over $1000 at a time when even the discounters were getting close to $2 grand.

There's a risk in buying refurbs. Saving a few hundred bucks on a $6K item doesn't begin to cover that risk, IMO. If the price of that projector was $4K, then I'd take another look. Otherwise, I'm with Lenny on this one.

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post #24 of 24 Old 04-23-2001, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by visman:
In the UK all NEC Referbs are projectors that have failed on the test bench or DOA to the resellers so there hardly any bulb life used i would have no problem in getting a referbed projector</font>
So all other returned projectors for other reasons are thrown away???

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