Cheap Plus UP1100s - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 04-27-2001, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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If you check at www.projectorcentral.com, there is a place selling Plus UP1100s for $1695. I've bought from them before and they are a good dealer.

I grabbed one which I will be sending to Thumper as soon as he replies to the private message I sent (that's a hint Thumper http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif).

There should be a couple left.


Steve
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post #2 of 16 Old 04-27-2001, 02:45 PM
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Steve,

Great find.

If you have an HTPC and can fead this guy an XGA signal, a Thumperized UP-1100 for about $2200 is a great find.

Now throw in a 2.2 gamma curve from Cliff, a custom gamma curve from Gary Gibbs, or get a source that has gamma control and you will have an oustanding picture.

The only issue that is hit or miss it appears is HD playback with 16 X 9 mode. Some people get some tearing depending on the source and possibly the firmware of the Plus. Mine for instance looks good in 720p but has tearing on fast movement in 1080i when in 16X9. None of these things are problems with a panamorph or isco II.

If you have an HTPC or just want to use your projector with your computer, then this is fantastic deal.

As always, get some sort of return policy and then enjoy.

-Mr. Wigggles

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post #3 of 16 Old 04-27-2001, 08:33 PM
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My only complaint about Plus projectors so far (including the U2-1110 that I have now) is the noise of the fans. Anybody built a good hush box for one of these?

Either way, that's a very decent price. While my HTPC isn't quite ready, I am quite impressed with the picture I am getting on the U2-1110 when connected to my notebook and C-Band satellite system. The picture from the U2-1110 should be pretty similar to the UP-1100.
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post #4 of 16 Old 04-28-2001, 12:54 PM
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I agree totally with Mr. W. Of the current crop of single chip DLP's I would not dream of spending more money for the new models when you can have an arguably better picture for less than half the price. Seeing is believing.



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STOP DVI/HDCP!
DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!
DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!

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post #5 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 08:21 AM
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ditto!!! an 1100 with Thumper's mods and gamma mods like Gary's will make no apologies to ANY current digital device short of 3-chip dlp. go for it.


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post #6 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 10:32 AM
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Where can I learn about these modifications? I am now seriously considering the 1100 and would like to know how to "hot rod" it for additional performance. Thanks.
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post #7 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 12:15 PM
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Mark,

Gary's mods aren't available through Gary. He is a subsidary of Cliff Inc. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

I haven't seen them yet. I am only guessing that they help the projector's gamma. Going from the 2.5-ish gamma under the pre-programmed 'normal' settings to a 2.2 type gamma flashed into a natural 1 or 2.

A while back I sent him a Matlab program that can hopefully further improve his results.

Gary, keep us informed.

-Mr. Wigggles

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[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 04-29-2001).]

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post #8 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 12:34 PM
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I've put in for one. Its hard to buy on a Sunday though.

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Ken Elliott

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post #9 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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They certainly seem a better deal than the one on eBay with a reserve of $2,999 and just 250 hours left on the bulb.

Still, good luck to the seller.

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post #10 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MrWigggles:
Mark,

I haven't seen them yet. I am only guessing that they help the projector's gamma. Going from the 2.5-ish gamma under the pre-programmed 'normal' settings to a 2.2 type gamma flashed into a natural 1 or 2.

A while back I sent him a Matlab program that can hopefully further improve his results.

Gary, keep us informed.

</font>
Sorry for the very long delay in getting back. I have been looking at a couple of different gamma curves on my post Thumper LT100 for the past 3-4 weeks. Wigggles sent me a matlab file to try out a couple of curves and I had a few ideas I wanted to try.

It is a long story and getting late so I will make it brief and try to elaborate more tomorrow. I was wondering what general gamma correction that we want, and originally tried an inverse of Gamma 2.2. The picture was very nice but I felt that the detail in the low light areas (near black) could use some work. It seemed like any below say 10 IRE looked the same. I found out that the source material is not recorded with a straight gamma of 2.2 but has a straight section near zero and in general climbs out slower (this is the encoding using the Rec. 709 equations used by HDTV). I assume this is similar to what is used for DVD recording.

Please see:
http://members.home.net/g.p.gibbs/

Next I tried implementing the inverse of the Rec. 709 that was applied to the source. ASSUMING the DLP is ideal and has a linear input/output (big assumption but all I can go on given my lack of test equipment, etc.) then if we inverse this Rec 709 equation we will reproduce the original source. Results definitely showed that the black detail could be drastically increased, but at the expense of seeing all the noise in the black.

Then I decided to look for a compromise. I want more detail in the black and a little more punch in the midrange compared to gamma 2.2, but I did not want to go as far as Rec 709.

In the curves shown on the referenced page you can get an idea of what the gamma curves for straight gamma 2.2 vs. rec 709 vs. Wigggles suggestion vs. my guess at what would look good. You can see that Wigggles and my curves are very similar at the low end. They are brighter then the gamma 2.2 but not as bright as the Rec. 709. I think this is a good compromise. In the mid to high end think that Wigggles curves are a little hot and remind me of the hot whites days http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

In summary I have been looking at all four of the curves (and also straight gamma 2.5) for several months and the last month I have been switching between Wigggles and my hybrid. I have been most happy with my hybrid and would consider it a nice improvement over the "normal" gamma available from the factory. This is assuming you have had Thumper work the magic. I was playing with this before the Thumper mod and feel that the Thumper mod is a must. The gamma correction does make a nice improvement in the low end (where it could be used), but is not as dramatic of an improvement as the Thumper mod.

This ended up being longer than I expected. Excuse me if I have said anything wacky. It is getting late here.

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DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!
DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!

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post #11 of 16 Old 04-29-2001, 09:59 PM
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So what sort of gamma mods have you created, Gary? Are they different from what I came up with back in January?

Also, any progress on the scaler adjustments you were reverse-engineering?
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post #12 of 16 Old 04-30-2001, 08:49 AM
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The Plus Up-1100 projectors are no longer listed on the ProjectorCentral web site. I assume that means they have been sold.

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post #13 of 16 Old 04-30-2001, 10:06 AM
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Hillarious,

My goal was to put a little more punch into the mid range of the image. I might have put a tad too much.

Gary, I will send you a final curve that will have a little less of a bump in it.

One of these days I might actually get a chance to see the results.

Have a good one.

-Mr. Wigggles

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post #14 of 16 Old 04-30-2001, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mark Fontana:
So what sort of gamma mods have you created, Gary? Are they different from what I came up with back in January?

Also, any progress on the scalar adjustments you were reverse-engineering?
</font>
Hi Mark. Hope all is well. You can see from the link above that I am working on variations of the stuff that we talked about before. If you would like any files let me know. Not sure how these might look on a non-Thumper projector.

I have not gotten back to the scalar issue. For all of my viewing (except for a couple of 640-480 games) the current setup is adequate. IT was more for curiosity then anything. If I get back to it and find out something useful I will let you know.


------------------
Gary

STOP DVI/HDCP!
DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!
DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!

[This message has been edited by Gary P. Gibbs (edited 04-30-2001).]

Gary
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-01-2001, 11:08 AM
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I've got a quick question.

I had sent an e-mail this past Friday around 4:15 PM and again yesterday morning to the contact listed at Projector Central. I was requesting a little more information before purchasing one of the used Plus UP-1100 projectors. The contact was listed as a guy named Keith Bull. I never received a reply to my e-mails.

I was wondering if anyone else who contacted Modern Mass Media got a reply to their e-mail or phone messages? Since they seem to list quite a few used projectors for sell at Projector Central, I wanted to get some feedback as to if this company is generally more responsive than this one guy was.

Thanks,

Joe

[This message has been edited by JoeFloyd (edited 05-01-2001).]
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post #16 of 16 Old 05-01-2001, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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They aren't the best emailers. Try phoning. I've talked to Kevin there, but the guy actually handling the sales is Tony Frasca. They called back this morning to check some credit card details but it should go off to Thumper today.

I bought an NEC LT84 from them a while back and while I did need to push them a little bit, it was worth it as they are always much cheaper than other places.

If you check the other thread about Runco v Plus, a Thumperized Runco beater for under $2300 total is hard to beat.


Steve

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