Sony 10HT - A discussion about it - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I see there is a lot of noise around this product in the forum, and I want to ask:

IS THERE ANY BETTER LCD / DLP PROJECTOR ???

At this price point, this product beats by large difference any other projector in the market, dont compare it to the models for computing aplications, and dont compare it to Home Cinema models from Davis, Seleco, Dreamvision, etc. The Sony in simple better by any measurment.

And what will happens when the new version arrives ?
A market dominance for the next year ?
Will the rest of manufacters stop traying to make a HT model ?

I compare it every 3 months to the new projector that are launched in the market, and in the last 18 months, nothing come close to it.

The Sony establish a new category by himself.

Best regards,

Julio

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post #2 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 01:21 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Julio de la Orden:
I see there is a lot of noise around this product in the forum, and I want to ask:

. . . dont compare it to the models for computing aplications, and dont compare it to Home Cinema models from Davis, Seleco, Dreamvision, etc. The Sony in simple better by any measurment.
</font>
Did you want to ask? Or did you want to tell? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

I agree the 10HT is a nice unit. It's probably even among the best by any measure. . . except for a measure of contrast and black level.

If it weren't for black level, I'd love to have a 10HT.

It's not even like I think the 10HT's black level is that terrible. I can understand how some people are satisfied with it. But in exchange for trading off some ease of use and resolution, I'll gladly take the better contrast and black levels of DLP units. For others (and, I assume, you) the 10HT may be the best solution, though. -- Herb


[This message has been edited by hsitz (edited 04-29-2001).]
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post #3 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 02:29 PM
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hsitz - Have you actually seen a 10HT in action? I'm trying to find a dealer in my area that has one I can demo, but no luck so far.

Do you think a greyhawk would improve the situation?

What do you like in a DLP and do you see the rainbow effect?

kmartin


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post #4 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 04:38 PM
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I own a 10ht and a grayhawk and out of the box the blacks were too gray, but once I did a little tuning via the faq http://www.thebigpicturedvd.com/vw10ht_faq.shtml my blacks are now fine. Too many people judge the blacks on this projector with seeing it configured properly. It took me a little less than an hour using the faq, avia and a couple dvds to create descent configuration and yes a grayhawk does help. I had to wait about a month for my screen to arrive so I used curtain blackout material tacked to the wall as a temporary solution. Once I put the grayhawk up the improvement was significant. Good luck finding a place that has both, I could not find a place in my area. I purchased the grayhawk based on the positive feedback in this and other forums.

IMO for the price it is hard to go wrong with this combination. Yes there is a screen door, but I can not see it at 10ft back on my 110in screen. It is native widescreen format so no fussing and dinking around when going between formats. If you are watching a 4:3 formatted program the 10ht just slaps blackbars on the left and right sides of your screen. I understand there are some issues with trying to attach a HTPC having to do with getting it to work widescreen. I do not use a htpc so I can not speak to these problems. There is an issue of some projectors having dead pixels. The first projector I received had 2 dead, a green and blue one. The merchant I worked with had a good return policy and I returned it for a perfect one. Lastly this is very quiet as far as projectors go, IMO you do not need a hush box with the 10ht. I sit right behind it, and while you can hear it if you listen for it, it is not so noticeable that it detracts from the movie. While I have not checked it with a sound meter it is about as loud as my heater vent is when the heater is blowing.

I know there is a rumor out that the new sony "11ht"? is coming out, but I remember reading about all the difficultly getting the 10ht when it was anounced. I guess it took months for sony to get the distribution and manufacturing issues worked out. If you are going to wait for the next one you might be in for a long wait even after they are announced.

As far as DLPs go unless you are sure you are not going to see rainbows I would not get one. For me I saw rainbows all the time and they gave me headaches. That and the high pitch of the color wheel spinning were too much for me, but I am sure other feel differently.

Regards,

Brian
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post #5 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 05:00 PM
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Thanks Brian.

I've seen DLP's from Davis, Runco, and DWIN. I saw rainbows in every one of them. So, I will definitely stay away from DLP, even though there is much to like about them.

Do you watch mainly DVD's on your 10HT / greyhawk combo? How about HDTV? What did you pay for your greyhawk, if you don't mind me asking? What else did you consider buying before you decided on the 10HT?

(sorry for the 20 questions)

I agree with you - even if the 11HT is released in July - it will be hard to get and prices will be high due to demand.

One more question - are you using a progressive scan DVD and/or some kind of video processor? Thanks!

kmartin
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post #6 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 07:34 PM
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I am an ardent 10HT supporter, but I think the claim:
*I compare it every 3 months to the new projector that are launched in the market, and in the last 18 months, nothing come close to it.*

is off mark.
Price/Performance a Davis clone DLP "come close"

Different projectors meet different needs for different people. The 10HT meets mine, but for many it is not a "clear" choice.

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post #7 of 19 Old 04-29-2001, 10:38 PM
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Hi all,

Isn't there something we're all forgetting here?

At least this is a major consideration for me in deciding whether or not to purchase a 10HT, or any other LCD/DLP projector for that matter.

What am I talking about?

The longevity and price of replacement bulbs!

At least in New Zealand (not sure about the US).

I don't fancy shelling out around $400.00 USD every 1500 - 2000 hours.

That's why I'm about to purchase a CRT projector. (Comparative picture quality differences and convenience issues aside)

Once I've shelled out my money there are no ongoing costs. I know I might have to replace the CRTs or upgrade the projector but that won't be for a long long time.

Mark
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post #8 of 19 Old 04-30-2001, 12:29 AM
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Julio,

Saludos desde los estados unidos. Qué gusto saber que tenemos hermanos de "cine en casa" también en España.

I think that unless you are bothered by the black level problem (like I am), and especially if you have a scaler that does 1366x768, the 10HT is an excellent projector. On the other hand, for people who MUST have pure blacks (and who want full HDTV resolution w/o scaling artifact), an 8" or 9" CRT projector is the way to go. Certainly the form factor of the LCD/D-ILAs is tempting even for me, though.

David
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post #9 of 19 Old 04-30-2001, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by davidahn:


I think that unless you are bothered by the black level problem (like I am), and especially if you have a scaler that does 1366x768, the 10HT is an excellent projector. On the other hand, for people who MUST have pure blacks (and who want full HDTV resolution w/o scaling artifact), an 8" or 9" CRT projector is the way to go. Certainly the form factor of the LCD/D-ILAs is tempting even for me, though.

David[/b]</font>
David,

I have been considering the 10HT and Sony's D50 7" crt. Also, it has been recommended to me to add a Faroudja 360NR line doubler to the 10HT for even better picture quality on the greyhawk screen. What do you think? I plan to do HDTV on a 110" screen.


Thanks for your help.

Barry
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post #10 of 19 Old 04-30-2001, 09:25 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kmartin:
Thanks Brian.

I've seen DLP's from Davis, Runco, and DWIN. I saw rainbows in every one of them. So, I will definitely stay away from DLP, even though there is much to like about them.

Do you watch mainly DVD's on your 10HT / greyhawk combo? How about HDTV? What did you pay for your greyhawk, if you don't mind me asking? What else did you consider buying before you decided on the 10HT?

(sorry for the 20 questions)

I agree with you - even if the 11HT is released in July - it will be hard to get and prices will be high due to demand.

One more question - are you using a progressive scan DVD and/or some kind of video processor? Thanks!

kmartin
</font>

1. 65% HDTV, 30% DVD, 5% upconverted DTV
2. Grayhawk ran about $1300 for a 110" luxus deluxe
3. infocus, runco, etc. it has been awhile so I don't recall everything but I was quickly sold on the native 16:9 format.
4. progressive scan dvd, I use the JVC d723gd. I purchased it when they were selling for around $600 then Goodguys dropped the price to 350 so I went back and got double the difference back. Got to love that deal too bad they don't do that any more. As far as the JVC goes I think it is an excellent progressive player on my 10ht, but I have not test driven any other to directly compare it to. I have noticed some DVD are a little soft but others like "seven" (which I watched last night) are very crisp. I have just assumed that is is a question of the quality of the encoding.

Regards,

Brian
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post #11 of 19 Old 04-30-2001, 09:28 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by barryf43:
David,

I have been considering the 10HT and Sony's D50 7" crt. Also, it has been recommended to me to add a Faroudja 360NR line doubler to the 10HT for even better picture quality on the greyhawk screen. What do you think? I plan to do HDTV on a 110" screen.


Thanks for your help.

Barry
</font>
Why do you think you need a line doubler?

I mainly watch hdtv on my 10ht 110" grayhawk and it is very crisp and clean.

regards,

Brian
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 08:52 AM
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Can anyone point me to some places to get a greyhawk and 10HT for a reasonable to great price?
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post #13 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 10:15 AM
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Hi

I have just bought my 10HT from ProjectorPeople in Tampa Florida and the first unit I received had a dead blue pixel and the after approx three hours of use it developed a blue circle of approx 40 pixels to the left of the center. I returned the unit and I now have a perfect LCD projector. I paid $5199 + $68 for overnight shipping (no tax paid due to out of state). They have a seven-day return policy if you are not happy with the projector and the person to contact is Donna 1 800 509 2602 Ext 2272. Please note that you may want to tell them that you want them to quality check the product for dead pixels before shipping and stress that you do not want one that has dead pixels. Also note that I cannot guarantee that you will get the same level of service because at first with just the one dead pixel they were not to keen to replace the product instead they said that this was acceptable. Note though that you do have the seven-day return policy regardless of what happens and as long as you don't use more then four hours of lamp life you can return the product for a full refund. You do have to pay the shipping back if you are returning it and this normally is $40 by land.

I have also bought a Grey Hawk for the price of $2500 (100" diagonal) also recessed application, which includes a remote to work with the trigger on the 10HT. I am a little confused on the price that Btmoore above quoted, as I know what distributors actually buy this for and it is more then what he paid for it!

I have also bought a I Scan Pro due to the fact that I will be using DirecTV and VHS as well as DVD with the projector and the ISCAN Pro allows me to play with various contrast/hue/saturation....etc settings which will give me better opportunity to set the projector up to my liking. It may also pay you to borrow or buy a copy of Video Essentials DVD, which will allow you to set up the projector with the Grey Hawk using the test patterns. When connected to the 10HT and the image being projected on a regular wall (still waiting for delivery of Gray Hawk) I noticed a reduction in contrast when using the I Scan Pro as apposed to using the inputs on the 10HT directly from the source of the signal which concerned me. I contacted ISCAN and they confirmed my findings and mentioned that they also have a 10HT and using the DVD mentioned were able to adjust the various levels to obtain a good quality picture through the ISCAN without using a progressive DVD player.

I am yet to set this all up and give it a shot, however no matter what happens with the ISCAN I know I have the one of the best LCD projectors and also the best screen for my HT. I will let you know how I get on with the ISCAN once I have taken delivery of my screen and had a chance to play.

Bally


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post #14 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by btmoore:
Why do you think you need a line doubler?

I mainly watch hdtv on my 10ht 110" grayhawk and it is very crisp and clean.

regards,

Brian
</font>
Hi Bryan. A retailer has told me that the line doubler will improve the picture quality to be comparable to the Sony D50 CRT for less money and much less set-up and maintenance. Any insight you can give me would be helpful since I am just starting to look into building a home theater. I plan to watch DVD's and alot of sports from Direct TV.

Thanks for your help.

Barry


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post #15 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 12:39 PM
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Hi Brian

I do not have HDTV as of yet and I found that the picture was smoother when viewed using the ISCAN PRO. Also when watching fast moving objects across the screen they seem to be more clearly defined and not broken and hard to identify when the ISCAN was removed. Also as mentioned in my earlier post I intend to use the projector to watch Formula 1 (DirecTV) and also VHS and I found overall better picture quality when using the ISCAN in both cases.

Please note that I am not 100% convinced about keeping the ISCAN and until I have my Gray Hawk up and running it would be unfair to pass judgment on a product that supports a very good review with respects to overall performance.

I can't wait to get my Grey Hawk up so that I can really have a play and reach my final conclusion on whether it will benefit me to keep the ISCAN.

I do appreciate your feedback and comments and I will keep all informed of my findings.

Hoping to get my Grey Hawk next week sometime.

Bally


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post #16 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bally Lakh:
I have also bought a Grey Hawk for the price of $2500 (100" diagonal) also recessed application, which includes a remote to work with the trigger on the 10HT. I am a little confused on the price that Btmoore above quoted, as I know what distributors actually buy this for and it is more then what he paid for it!
</font>
Perhaps you are confusing the prices for a recessed motorized screen versus a 110" luxus deluxe screen wall, which is what I have. Regardless the exact price I paid was $1280 + $55.29 in shipping.

Regards,

Brian
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post #17 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 03:35 PM
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Jumping in late here, I'm assuming by now everyone has seen the thread about the 11HT being confirmed. I tend to agree with Joe Brasi above--the only real remaining issue with DLP is rainbow artifact. I'm hanging on to see if this gets fixed since I am one of those unfortunates who really sees rainbow.

New projector intros or ship dates are coming hot and heavy now. How many in the last 2 months? A half dozen or so?? Our options are growing exponentially and that will drive the price down quickly.

Really interested in this new Sony but wish it was brighter.

Dan

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #18 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 04:31 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by barryf43:
Hi Bryan. A retailer has told me that the line doubler will improve the picture quality to be comparable to the Sony D50 CRT for less money and much less set-up and maintenance. Any insight you can give me would be helpful since I am just starting to look into building a home theater. I plan to watch DVD's and alot of sports from Direct TV.

Thanks for your help.

Barry

</font>
I do not watch much standard tv and no vhs on the 10ht. The DirecTV or broadcast DTV material is unconverted via my HD-100 STB to 1080i. The unconverted material is soft looking but it is watchable. I have watched some NASCAR, football and basketball all in unconverted via the HD-100 and it is fine but almost cartoonish in comparison to HDTV equivalent. I have never tried a video processor to compare it to the unconverted 1080i provided by the hd-100. It a video processor might be better but I don't think it is necessary for my viewing requirements.

Regards,

Brian
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post #19 of 19 Old 05-01-2001, 05:29 PM
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Barrf;
I have a D50 with an IEV line doubler on a 106" screen. The picture is great! However, with this large of a screen I am probably pushing it. Most people in the know say that a 7" tube is best with an 84" screen. But I have not had any problems. The Sony units I have seen at retailer are usually set up incorrectly. But I recently saw a 400 and the screen door was definately visible. The best picture quality is still CRT. But&gt;&gt;&gt; it can be a hassle. I had mine ISF calibrated and it took the guy 8 hours and cost me plenty. I am moving and am at the stage of trying to decide whether to move or sell the D50. If I sell what do I get. I keep hoping that DLP is the answer but I'm still not sure. I have seen the Runco, too expensive. JVC DILA is way too hot and noisy. So I too am stuck!
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