Projector Firmware SUCKS!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-01-2001, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a rant:

This has been brought up by my observing the thread about the HT250 and HDTV. What a JOKE! How can they release a projector that does not do what it claims, and then say "but don't worry, we are going to fix it with a firmware update." This is just ludicrous! It has become like the computer game market, or the computer software market for that matter!!!

When you by a game for your Nintendo or PS2 or whatever, it WORKS! Why, because they have NO OPPORTUNITY to fix it with patches and stuff like that. Thank god. Nintendo doesn't release some half-ass game just to get it out and then say "here is the firmware for the part of the game we said was there, but doesn't work now!"

We all know Windows, and service packs, and game patches. This has given the companies the opportunity to produce products that are not free from defect to get them out in time for the competition.

I am not saying firmware is bad in all cases. In fact, it lends itself to being able to upgrade to new standards and save money in the long run. HOWEVER.. and a big HOWEVER--->>> This does not mean SAYING your product will have a feature, and then it actually NOT having the feature untill it is correctly implemented with "firmware"! Seleco should have said the projector is GOING TO BE HDTV COMPATIBLE, not it IS, because this is really a lie. Yes, a lie. False advertisement if I may say so.

"Brand new BMW, 400HP!" says the add. I want one, go to the dealership, and the guy says "Sir, it is only 300HP for now, we need to change the engine firmware..." could you imagine!

Just a rant http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif



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post #2 of 9 Old 05-01-2001, 09:32 PM
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One key reason the Playstation games etc. don't have as many problems is because the programmers are developing for a single hardware platform that is pretty much the same everywhere (except for NTSC vs. PAL resolution/framerate issues). Every end user has the same hardware-- whereas a Windows programmer has to make their game work on a crazy number of different potential configurations... different graphics cards, different sound cards, different O/S versions, different motherboard chipsets, different processor speeds, etc. They can't possibly test every potential configuration, and I think it's amazing that they manage to get things working as consistently as they do!

Now with a projector, we're back in the "everybody has the same hardware" situation, so there isn't much excuse for advertised features not working, other than the fact that communication between Marketing and Engineering isn't as good as it could be in a lot of companies, and product development is often rushed. Still, we're fortunate that more and more products ARE made field-upgradeable. We aren't necessarily stuck with problems forever and can push the manufacturers to release fixes.
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post #3 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 05:13 AM
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"There, there. Buck up little camper."

Actually I agree. On top of it, they charge a pretty penny for these projectors that can't do everything they say they can do in the product literature.

Have a great day!
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post #4 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 06:13 AM
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Give 'em hell! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Dan

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #5 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 06:58 AM
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As i have stated numerous times on this forum, i own a HT250, and using the RGB input, HDTV works perfectly. I have read all of your posts David M., and it seems that you are on some kind of cruscade against Seleco. Its not like you own one and are unhappy with it. Why don't you just not buy a Seleco, and rave about whatever you do decide to buy. You keep saying that the Seleco has the rainbow effect. Ive never seen it on my HT250, and I have seen it on many other DLPs. I don't see how your rants help anyone.
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 04:05 PM
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David, My comment stems from your rant about a firmware problem with the seleco. I own this projector, and i am just tired of feeling like I have to post everytime I read one of your posts so people hear from a customer that actually owns this projector that the problems that you are referring to are not present on my projector. I am not sure what purpose your posts serve considering you seem to be regurgatating information you have read about the HT 250 on this forum. It would be different if you owned this projector, and you were giving personal accounts of your HD problems. Perhaps crusade was a strong term, and I have seen much more biased posts on this forum, but I get frustrated reading heresay on this forum about any product. Although I have posted my success with this projector in many of the same threads that you berate it, you don't mention that some people don't have these problems. Thats all. I hope that you will continue to post, as your posts are well written, but I think we'd all benefit from you posting problems and concerns that you discover from using a product yourself and how we can benfit from your experience. Best of luck finding a projector that meets all of your standards.
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post #7 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by evillager:
David, My comment stems from your rant about a firmware problem with the seleco. I own this projector, and i am just tired of feeling like I have to post everytime I read one of your posts so people hear from a customer that actually owns this projector that the problems that you are referring to are not present on my projector. I am not sure what purpose your posts serve considering you seem to be regurgatating information you have read about the HT 250 on this forum. It would be different if you owned this projector, and you were giving personal accounts of your HD problems. Perhaps crusade was a strong term, and I have seen much more biased posts on this forum, but I get frustrated reading heresay on this forum about any product. Although I have posted my success with this projector in many of the same threads that you berate it, you don't mention that some people don't have these problems. Thats all. I hope that you will continue to post, as your posts are well written, but I think we'd all benefit from you posting problems and concerns that you discover from using a product yourself and how we can benfit from your experience. Best of luck finding a projector that meets all of your standards.</font>
You missed my point. It doesn't matter that some people don't have the problem. What does matter is some people do, which means there is the potential to have good or bad luck with the projector in question. Therefor potential buyers should BE WARNED before hand.

What I don't understand is what you call hearsay. I don't need to own the projector to make a comment on the need for upgrades if such needs have been brought to my attention. If I am stating something that even the moderator of the AVS forum has clearly stated exists, is this not fact? If other members state the same thing, is this not fact? IF the COMPANY states it?

In all other threads, there has been no regurgiation. I have spent 3 hours with the HT200. Therefore, when people start discussing rainbow artifacts, I will mention that I see them in this regard. The HDTV problem
I have not personally seen. However, it has been stated by many. Hence my rant which is the subject of this post.

However, maybe you are correct, I should have left the name Seleco out of my rant, and just said a recent projector that has a known problem, as stated by the company, but that is not seen by all customers. Would this have been more appeasing to you?

"David, My comment stems from your rant about a firmware problem with the seleco"

This makes no sense then. You commented earlier that you have read all my posts and that it appears that I was on a crusade, which you have admitted was severe in stating, but understandable nevertheless. However this is THE FIRST time I EVER made a comment on firmware about this projector. ALl other posts I made were in regards to the rainbow effect which I HAVE SEEN in person many times on this projector and therefore I believe am not in error in stating this. Therefore, are you disturbed at my comments about the rainbow effect, which are true and not hearsay, or the firmware problem, which also exists?

Do you deny though that Seleco has stated that they are going to fix the problem? I know you won't, therefore you must admit then that it is silly for you to say you have no problems and to tell people not to worry about it when the company who makes the product admits such fault.


My posts about the rainbow effect DO serve a purpose in letting people know what a member of their forum has seen in a given product.

This thread, however, I admit serves no purspose other than me stating my opinion that I am not in favour of a new trend in which products are not shipped completely functional as stated. It doesn't matter that some do work properly, most should. It should be a rare case that it doesn't.

From dictionary.com Hearsay:
"Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony"

This is the term you used, and I will be honest and say that if I heard it anywhere but in this forum, it would be. And even in that case, what if I hear it from people who have the product? Are they lieing? I guess then this entire forum is hearsay, in this respect. Every single shout-out, every single opinion stated by a member, every member stating a problem is hearsay when we use it to base our purchasing decisions.

Guess what, its true. And that is why in most of my posts, I don't say "don't buy it", but "check it out first!".

And I will comment on a sort of hypocracy on your part. You accuse me of hearsay, but what about your hyperbole? "I have read all your posts, and you seem to be on a crusade"...while you have admitted that you used the wrong term in stating crusade, but I find you in serious error in saying this, and I would advise that you go over my posts again and find out what I have said.
I think the worst thing I said was that I saw the rainbow artifact on the HT200 and was amazed that something for $15,000 Cnd. would have this problem, after they stated they had fixed it.

The next worse thing I said, is that I was amazed that Texas Instruments would release a product, that while not seen by all, still exhibited such a serious (to those who can see it)flaw in design.

The rest were all "try before you buy because I see it" comments. This is only in regards to my posts regarding the HT200, for I am sure you are not talking about my 150 or so other posts which have nothing to do with that topic.

"I own this projector, and i am just tired of feeling like I have to post everytime I read one of your posts so people hear from a customer that actually owns this projector that the problems that you are referring to are not present on my projector. "

On this note, I will ask at what point do I have the right to comment on a projector that I have seen. Again, this is my first post regarding the HDTV problem, so you must be referring to the rainbow artifact posts. I have spent 3 hours with the projector, 1/2 hour each 6 times. I have watched all sources except HTPC and HDTV. Do I have the right to comment with this, or do I have to spend 100 hours? 1000? If I walk in and see the rainbow artifact on the projector, that is all I need to see to state it as fact. Whether I sit and watch for 1 hour or 10 minutes.
If this is not acceptable, or factual, then I don't know what is.

I would post about problems with my Sharp XV-s55u 600 lumen VGA non-progressive input projector, but I don't know how usefull that would be for the forum members http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Please, though, before you berate anybody for doing something, check out what you say first, for you have skewed what I have said, and exaggerated those things I have said as well.

I am still shocked to know that someone has had to respond to all my posts about something that I never said, or use my comments on one aspect and apply them to another.


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[This message has been edited by David Mendicino (edited 05-02-2001).]

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post #8 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by evillager:
As i have stated numerous times on this forum, i own a HT250, and using the RGB input, HDTV works perfectly. I have read all of your posts David M., and it seems that you are on some kind of cruscade against Seleco. Its not like you own one and are unhappy with it. Why don't you just not buy a Seleco, and rave about whatever you do decide to buy. You keep saying that the Seleco has the rainbow effect. Ive never seen it on my HT250, and I have seen it on many other DLPs. I don't see how your rants help anyone. </font>
First, I will say this. Scientifcally, it is of much greater relevance to find things that exists, because it is very hard to prove that something definitely does NOT exist. You can only theorize. Therefore, when you say that "I don't see the rianbow" and "I have no problem with HDTV", you are contributing much less than someone who says they do see it or have the problem, because that quantifies the matter. Another thread I have been involved in was with the DWIN, which somebody bought and discovered for the first time the rainbow artifact. I find it is my DUTY as a member here to inform other members when I see such things, so they know that it DOES exist, whether they see it or not. This lets them know that the possibility does exist that they may also observe the rainbow artifact with there possible purchase, and that this might disturb them greatly.

People should be informed of such things, ESPECIALLY when dealing with the more expensive projectors.

Secondly, you misunderstand my point. I WANTED THE SELECO TO BE GREAT! I am upset that they FAILED in removing the rainbow artifact. And not to get hostile, but just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there and it will be perfect for anybody. In fact, there are many of us who see the rainbow artifact. It is MUCH worse on other projectors I will admit, but definitely still there on the Seleco.

Again, just because you DON't have a problem with HDTV on your machine doesn't mean there is no problem. Other people have quantified this, as has Alan Gouger. I wonder why there are threads speaking of problems with the HT250 and HDTV. Maybe you are just lucky. I am happy that you don't see the rainbow artifact, and that you have no problems with your machine.

On that note, PLEASE EXPLAIN why then is Seleco coming up with a 6 segment colour wheel. To do what? Fix a problem that DOESN'T exist?!? And what about the firmware upgrade to fix the HDTV problem? Again, they do it just for fun, because there is no problem right?

I use Seleco as an example, because I am sure there are others as well. It just happened to be the most recent example of what I am talking about.
I also rant now because I fear this will become a common trend in the projector industry, and it shouldn't be.

Mark:

You are right about games and hardware compatability. However, I am speaking more on the issue of in game flaws that are NOT dependent on hardware, such as glitches and other things.


If my ranting has offended anyone, I appologize. I am not on crusade against Seleco. I am just disturbed that something this expensive could have such problems from the get go. I am on a crusade to better the projector market in general.

My rant is just that, opinion. I find it more usefull to give my opinion and let people think about it versus says "I don't see it, so it doesn't exist!" That is a very immature and useless mentality to those who do experience specific things.

Furthermore, I am surprised that you think I am on a crusade against Seleco by simply stating that I see the rainbow artifact on their product? How is that crusading? I have never told anybody NOT to buy it, I only suggest that they check it out first. If you are going to use someone else's posts as a reference against that person, make sure you read them ALL then! Why, because i have said the same thing for other projectors and companies as well. In fact, someone just asked if they should by and LP340, and all I said was make sure you check it out so you don't see the rainbow artifact, because once you do, it can be quite annoying and disturbing, especially if you are very sensitive to it.

This was just a rant. However, I find most of my other posts are usefull, helpfull and of good nature. Please don't make a judgement based on little evidence.



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post #9 of 9 Old 05-02-2001, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Just an example, this is how I responded to someone who asked if they should by an HT200:
"
My suggestion:
SEE IT FIRST!!!

I did, and while in most areas, it was outstanding. However, I did see the rainbow artifact on it (while majorly reduced compared to others) so make sure you test it first before you put down any money!
"

Is that a crusade against it? You tell me? (Mind the poor grammar http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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[This message has been edited by David Mendicino (edited 05-02-2001).]

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