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What makes 0.65" DC3 DMD 3-chip 1080p DLP so expensive?

8K views 28 replies 15 participants last post by  JeffR1 
#1 ·
Curious, why are 0.65" DC3 1080p 3-chip DLP designs still so expensive ($20k+)? (i.e. such as DPI HIGHlite 330 3D) Is it the prism that costs so much to manufacture? Just curious as 0.65" DC3 chips are found in an array of very low cost single chip projectors, so I'm wondering why 3-chip cost $15,000+ more for the additional DMDs... Was hoping by now they would drop in price a bit, but they seem to have retained their $20k+ status.
 
#5 ·
Also volume, they probably sell a small fraction of the number of single chip devices. You have to price it high enough to make it worthwhile to manufacturer and still keep the lights on. That's a rule of thumb with most high end electronics from boutique manufacturers.
 
#7 ·
I am with you on this one, I oftentimes also can't see the justification for these prices. Look no further than the high end 3 chipper LCOS units which also use multiple chips, prisms, polarizers etc, and equiped with quality internals and processing. You can even have a laser light source on one of these LCOS units, add a quality outboard processor and still come out winning by a country mile. The worse offenders are the $20K+ single chip DLP's.


I am not discounting the fact that there are some very good DLP's available such as the high end SIM /DPI/Barco units that required substantial R&D efforts to bring tangible improvements and are overacheiving relative to other DLP units, but for the most part what I see are generic designs with higher quality parts that are being overpriced. The technology has not improved much over the years and those units really belong in the mid-range market, not the 15K+ market.
 
#8 ·
I think all 3 chip DLPs are overpriced and they do not use higher quality parts than high end SXRD or D-ILA projectors and how much can actually TI take for these chips. I have seen a couple of high end 3 chip DLPs from Sim2 even the latest Superlumis and I prefer the 2D picture from my 4000$ JVC X500. Of corse the Superlumis can light up a much bigger screen and have much better 3D than my X500, but I really dont see anything that can justify the price at nearly 60000$ here in Norway as you can get almost as good 3D with a cheap single chip DLP and get away with a total of around 6000$ and get better 2D performance (up to 140" screen) and almost as good 3D.
 
#9 ·
It is something that has me puzzled - does anyone have an answer.


Is there anything about the prism (etc) in a chip LCOS (etc) projector that's fundamentally cheaper than the same in a 3 chip DLP projector?


If not, why can I get the former for under £2k, but the latter for no less than £10k?


Also, wouldn't an RGB laser and/or LED light source be cheaper still by removing the need for the prism?


Steve W
 
#10 ·
Mark gave the main reason. Until there is a replacement DMD for high end DLP, prices will remain high on the current models.
 
#12 ·
While we are on the topic of DLP's, I have a question that poped into my head and would like some feedback.


Is a single chip DLP with a RGB color wheel capable of producing 10 bit colors. Based on the information floating around a single chip is capable of 16+million colors. It seem to me that this is not necessarily a DLP chip limitation but is the max color resolution posible from a 8 bit source.


If the limitation is at the chip level, we may have a problem since a 10 bit color resolution is capable of over 1+billion colors. I can see this being achieved with a 6 primary color wheel, but we may now have a calibration issue similar to the briliant color experiences. Any thoughts?
 
#26 ·
I read a review the other day on dci-forum of the 515 Sony with 6 UHP lamps, and it said that witnesses of the demo, could tell the on-off contrast was higher than normal, it was measured at just a tad over 8000:1, instead of the usual 2000-2500:1, for 4K/2K DLP DCi.

Is Sony actually making money (not talking marginal cost) on the 1000/1100/1200? They go for much less in Asia than in EU/USA, but are all development cost disconted in this?
 
#23 ·
I dont believe reflectiveness has anything to do with it. However, lcd based projectors (including lcos and sxrd) must polarize the light from the lamp before it enters the lcd panels, which cuts the light in half right off the bat. I would also imagine the dlp chips being more heat resistant and able to handle more powerful light sources in general.

DLPs in turn have problems with reflections from the edge of the mirrors which affects the contrast. I would imagine this would only get worse with 4k since you get significantly more mirror edges per area with the pixel increase.
 
#24 ·
Thanks, that explains why lcos has better blacks and contrast, but lower lumens per lamp watt, as well as the dominance of dlp in high lumen applications.
 
#25 ·
The Barco 0.67" 3 DMD unit could be had for well below $20K including a lens of choice, a few years ago. Of course this was only 6K lumens, but I presume as higher lumens versions came out like the 8K-14K, there was some pricing pressure to bring at least the 8K under 20K.

The glass argument does hold true, as we see with the trend to use 2K glass on 4K DCi projectors.

The parts do neeed to stand up to higher temperatures, as we witness in the retrofit laser efforts and the pure existence of DMD cancer to begin with. Commercial. machines can have watercooling or active refridgeration on the back of the actual dmds.

Is Delta really the ony OEM/ODM?

So, NEC is also sourcing from Delta?
 
#27 ·
Someone needs to make a kit to replace the color wheel on a lens shifting Optoma / Acer or BenQ with a single R / G / B color filter and then use an HTPC with 3 HDMI/DVI outputs to send each a single R / G / B signal and stack 3 of them and have rainbow free viewing (with amazing 3D performance too).

Or better yet just replace the bulb / LED with a single color version.

Sounds "easy" but I'm sure there are tons of problems with this "idea".

Personally I'm done with 1080p, show me the consumer 4k (2160p) DMDs soon or I'm buying the upcoming laser lit 4k Sony projector.
 
#28 ·
Someone needs to make a kit to replace the color wheel on a lens shifting Optoma / Acer or BenQ with a single R / G / B color filter and then use an HTPC with 3 HDMI/DVI outputs to send each a single R / G / B signal and stack 3 of them and have rainbow free viewing (with amazing 3D performance too).

Or better yet just replace the bulb / LED with a single color version.

Sounds "easy" but I'm sure there are tons of problems with this "idea".

Personally I'm done with 1080p, show me the consumer 4k (2160p) DMDs soon or I'm buying the upcoming laser lit 4k Sony projector.

Every time I watch movies on my VW600 I think the same thing. Until I switch back and watch one on my Lumis. Watched " Big Eyes " on the Lumis the other night. It looked fabulous. I'll watch " Lone Survivor " tonight with a friend on the VW600. It too will look fabulous. They are surprisingly not that far apart picture wise, unless you sit really close to the screen.
 
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