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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Pete's Avatar Pete
04:06 PM Liked: 29
post #1 of 13
05-15-2001 | Posts: 2,662
Joined: Jan 2001
The bulb life on Sim2 Seleco HT200/250 is 4000 hours.
Digitalhorde's Avatar Digitalhorde
10:24 PM Liked: 10
post #2 of 13
05-15-2001 | Posts: 514
Joined: Jul 2000
thanks brah
Digitalhorde's Avatar Digitalhorde
10:33 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 13
05-15-2001 | Posts: 514
Joined: Jul 2000
After reading your previews of the new DLP projectors at that HT Expo in New York, you guys have got me pumped up now. I was about to buy a used CRT projector (Sony 1270) earlier this year. I passed, but my friend bought it after I decided not too. He has been loving it, while I languish with a 27 inch TV.

The reason I didn't get the 1270 was that it was kinda loud, had a HUGE chasis, and frankly, once the tubes run out (they are in good shape now) they will be too expensive to replace.

The digital projectors really appeal to me, but I don't think they're ready for prime time quite yet, and am gonna wait a couple years to get one.

Sorry for the long winded crap, I basically have 3 questions for you guys.

1. Does anyone know the bulb life of that new Sim2 HT200 whatever the exact model number was?

2. What do you think the bulb life of DLP projectors will be in 2 years.?

3. In terms of picture quality, technology maturity, image artifacts, aspect ratio, etc... where do you think DLP projectors will be in 2 years compared to today?

[This message has been edited by Digitalhorde (edited 05-15-2001).]
vmbari's Avatar vmbari
05:49 PM Liked: 10
post #4 of 13
05-16-2001 | Posts: 10
Joined: Oct 2000
Once you've seen the new DWIN with the Transcanner you may question wondering "if they have arrived". I have been watching mine for almost a month and couldn't be happier. It was definately worth the wait. If you do decide to go see it, be sure to get HDTV picture brought up as well. I was able to get the Dish Networks' HBO and Showtime running over the weekend. Good stuff!

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Bernd's Avatar Bernd
06:36 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 13
05-16-2001 | Posts: 618
Joined: Jan 2000
I think it is safe to assume a Moores Law progression in digital projection technology. Which means it doubles in price/performance every 18 months. So, holding price constant, in two years you should be able to get a digital projector for home theater use that:

Has a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 progressive

Has a contrast ratio of greater than 1500 to 1

Has light output of 3000 lumens

Supports a refresh ratio of at least 144hx

Costs $10,000

By comparison, you can get a JVC G15 (the reference digital projector today) for about $10,000. It has specs about half of what I mentioned above.

Note, these are rough estimates. I claim no knowledge of anyones plans regarding future digital projection products.

Cheers,

Bernd
jackmay's Avatar jackmay
08:43 PM Liked: 10
post #6 of 13
05-16-2001 | Posts: 571
Joined: May 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by Bernd:
I think it is safe to assume a Moores Law progression in digital projection technology. Which means it doubles in price/performance every 18 months. So, holding price constant, in two years you should be able to get a digital projector for home theater use that:

Has a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 progressive

Has a contrast ratio of greater than 1500 to 1

Has light output of 3000 lumens

Supports a refresh ratio of at least 144hx

Costs $10,000

That means I have to wait 4 years to get the performance I want at my buy decision threshold of $5K. Maybe I can cut performance requirements to 72Hz and 1000 lumens to get it a little sooner.

KFung's Avatar KFung
09:07 PM Liked: 10
post #7 of 13
05-16-2001 | Posts: 879
Joined: Apr 2000
I don't think you will see quite the contrast range and brightness enhancements that you hope, or refresh rate for that matter. Moore's law generally only applies to the size/complexity of a chip (I think it's something like chip complexity doubles every 18 months). I think in two years we will see 1920*1080 at consumer prices, I couldn't speculate as to whether it would match current G15 pricing...However, I don't think contrast will exceed to best that current consumer D-ILA's offer by very much. Bulb technology doesn't generally advance as fast as semiconductor technology, so bulb prices will likely remain pretty close to what they are now. The refresh rate is limited by the response rate of the liquid crystal in the D-ILA device, I don't expect that it will chance much at all (besides, there is not advantage to having such a high refresh rate, film sourced material is only 24 Hz and you don't get flicker with current D-ILA's so 144+Hz is kind of overkill)

Regards,

Kam Fung
ChuckTraywick's Avatar ChuckTraywick
10:53 PM Liked: 10
post #8 of 13
05-17-2001 | Posts: 825
Joined: May 2000
Moore's law was postulated for chips but has been loosely applied to many other things. Moore's law has been used loosely to describe web bandwidth (i.e. capability and capacity for a fixed cost projected over time) lately.
jackmay's Avatar jackmay
12:07 AM Liked: 10
post #9 of 13
05-18-2001 | Posts: 571
Joined: May 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by KFung:
refresh rate, film sourced material is only 24 Hz and you don't get flicker with current D-ILA's so 144+Hz is kind of overkill)
MPEG-2 has enough information it for processing equipment to do high quality interpolation between frames. This will provide a perceptually better picture.

There are sets in Europe that do this and people claim the picture is greatly improved.
kelliot's Avatar kelliot
12:43 AM Liked: 10
post #10 of 13
05-18-2001 | Posts: 3,945
Joined: May 2000
I'm pretty sick of MPEG2 compression artifacts.

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Ken Elliott
KFung's Avatar KFung
11:10 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 13
05-18-2001 | Posts: 879
Joined: Apr 2000
Why would you want to do high-quality interpolation of frames in the first place? Ideally, you would be running at a multiple of the source's native refresh rate, you don't need to interpolate between frames there... Besides I would question the positive effects this would have on film based material. Each frame contains 1/24 sec. of temporal information if you interpolate two frames you get a blend of 1/12 sec. flashed in a very short time. I think this would be perceptually more distracting than any frame judder.

I'm sure this is useful if you are converting from one refresh rate to another (in the case of NTSC to PAL), as you can include temporal information that might otherwise be lost.

Regards,

Kam Fung
indygreg's Avatar indygreg
11:01 PM Liked: 10
post #12 of 13
05-19-2001 | Posts: 1,109
Joined: Feb 2001
digitalhorde,

i suggest you post this question over in the special guests forum where TI is appearing next week.

greg

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Why does he shake hands with that guy right after he sexed the alligator
jackmay's Avatar jackmay
03:28 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 13
05-20-2001 | Posts: 571
Joined: May 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by KFung:
Each frame contains 1/24 sec. of temporal information if you interpolate two frames you get a blend of 1/12 sec. flashed in a very short time. I think this would be perceptually more distracting than any frame judder.
MPEG-2 compresses by measuring motion in different parts of the image and by throwing away less important information in a Cosine transform. The motion information (X and Y movement) is sent instead of the pixels when a group of pixels moves together.

MPEG-2 interpolation, at least the way I was thinking about it, uses the motion information. If the frame rate is 144Hz, then a motion of six pixels for a pixel group (to keep it simple) between two film frames will move 1 pixel per frame at a 144 Hz frame rate. This is far from just averaging two frames.

The motion will look a lot more realistic with this fine stepping. I think I have seen somewhere that the reality of film get much better as the frame rate increases up to about 72 frames per seconds. Higher frame rates don't increase the perceptual quality much beyond 72 fps.
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