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post #1 of 19 Old 07-17-2015, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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A slightly used 300es (170 lamp hours) has come up for sale from conan48, I was planning to wait until after CEDIA, but at this point there doesn't seem to be any thing new in the 4K category that is coming up.
It doesn't look like JVC is releasing a native 4K, Panasonic is out of the picture (so it would seem from reading other posts on this forum) and Epson _ well who knows about Epson _ (I wasn't impressed with the LS10000 with it simulated 4K)
See post 153 from Kraine concerning the JVC.
Ifa berlin 2015 new projectors
Making decisions like this are tough _ wait and loose a good deal in hopes that something newer, better and less expensive will come along.
Or jump in right now...
At one time I wouldn't have flinched at dropping 6 or 7000.00$ on a Panasonic 65 inch monitor when they were first released, but for some reason or other it's become very difficult to make a decision.

I've read right through many forums here on this subject and read many reviews and all that reading doesn't make the decision any easier.
Last night I was watching a movie on my Panny 4000 and the image just didn't seem as sharp as I remembered it _ still OK, but maybe room for improvement...

Don't know what to do ???

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post #2 of 19 Old 07-17-2015, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
A slightly used 300es (170 lamp hours) has come up for sale from conan48, I was planning to wait until after CEDIA, but at this point there doesn't seem to be any thing new in the 4K category that is coming up.
It doesn't look like JVC is releasing a native 4K, Panasonic is out of the picture (so it would seem from reading other posts on this forum) and Epson _ well who knows about Epson _ (I wasn't impressed with the LS10000 with it simulated 4K)
See post 153 from Kraine concerning the JVC.
Ifa berlin 2015 new projectors
Making decisions like this are tough _ wait and loose a good deal in hopes that something newer, better and less expensive will come along.
Or jump in right now...
At one time I wouldn't have flinched at dropping 6 or 7000.00$ on a Panasonic 65 inch monitor when they were first released, but for some reason or other it's become very difficult to make a decision.

I've read right through many forums here on this subject and read many reviews and all that reading doesn't make the decision any easier.
Last night I was watching a movie on my Panny 4000 and the image just didn't seem as sharp as I remembered it _ still OK, but maybe room for improvement...

Don't know what to do ???

Buy it and enjoy it for 5 years, then look for something new. I have 3 movie nights scheduled with friends next week - watching movies with friends in the home theater is the best of times - don't get analysis paralysis. There is always " something new " on the horizon. No guarantees that this Cedia will be any different than last years. It might be, but any new projectors may still be very expensive or just have incremental improvements.

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post #3 of 19 Old 07-17-2015, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Buy it and enjoy it for 5 years, then look for something new. I have 3 movie nights scheduled with friends next week - watching movies with friends in the home theater is the best of times - don't get analysis paralysis. There is always " something new " on the horizon. No guarantees that this Cedia will be any different than last years. It might be, but any new projectors may still be very expensive or just have incremental improvements.
Thanks for that, I'll let the forum know how things work out.
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-17-2015, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
Last night I was watching a movie on my Panny 4000 and the image just didn't seem as sharp as I remembered it _ still OK, but maybe room for improvement...

Don't know what to do ???
maybe consider an interim upgrade until UHD content becomes readily available unless you need the lumen output of the Sony.

Once in a while a great deal on the JVC RS46 comes up, here is one with low miles for under 2k US + 3D kit. This will be a noticeable improvement vs. the Panasonic 4000 in regard to sharpness, OOTB color and contrast performance.
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post #5 of 19 Old 07-17-2015, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
maybe consider an interim upgrade until UHD content becomes readily available unless you need the lumen output of the Sony.

Once in a while a great deal on the JVC RS46 comes up, here is one with low miles for under 2k US + 3D kit. This will be a noticeable improvement vs. the Panasonic 4000 in regard to sharpness, OOTB color and contrast performance.
Hey, thanks for that, I really do appreciate the effort, however, you've heard the saying "in for a penny, in for a pound".
While over at Canucks Audio Mart I found a 300es for 7500.00$ Can. in Alberta (not too far away)
He bought it from an authorized dealer (Quebec Acoustics) and he accepted my offer for 7000.00$
So 4K here we come.
I try to avoid eBay sales out of the US when it comes to big ticket items, well, what I consider to be big ticket items.
With the dollar exchange the way it is now and the local taxes I have to pay when it comes over the border, what seems like a good deal really isn't.
I would rather put that money towards something I would really want.

There is still the issue of a good frame interpolation engine, which the Sony has or at least it's better then the JVC.
I sent a disc of a difficult passage to Quebec Acoustics where they tested it on a 300es and a JVC DLA-X500 involving FI and the Sony handled it better _ not perfect, but better then the JVC _ in their opinion anyway _ and I believe them.

The 300es only has 120 hours on the lamp, so even better then conan28's projector.
The guy in Alberta doesn't have the Netflix steaming box, but Netflix has absolutely nothing that I'm remotely interested in, so that works out.

The only apprehension I have is sending a total stranger 7000.00$ whom I know nothing about, but I guess I will just have to take a leap of faith.
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post #6 of 19 Old Today, 07:42 AM
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Enjoying it for 5 years when it won't be able to play UHD Bluray (or UHD TV) in full quality is a bit optimistic.

Both Sony and JVC should release by the end of the year new models with full UHD compatibility, ie HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0a and P3 gamut support, possibly even some form of limited HDR. The JVCs won't support a full 4K resolution, but for most this is the least important (as in noticeable) improvement brought by UHD content. These should be enjoyable for the next 5 years. Otherwise having a 4K projector unable to display upcoming UHD content in full quality would feel frustrating to some, well at least to me, especially at that price level.

I'm with Zombie on that one, I'd go for an interim PJ if something has to bought now. In fact that's what I did with the X500 I bought earlier this year to replace my X30. I really enjoy it, but I'm unlikely to keep it once we get more UHD content, which should happen in 2016 if UHD Bluray delivers as expected.

If I'm too late, I'm sure you'll enjoy the 300ES, it's a great PJ to play upscaled HD, but I doubt you'll keep it more than 2-3 years given its limitations with native UHD content.

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post #7 of 19 Old Today, 07:56 AM
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Enjoying it for 5 years when it won't be able to play UHD Bluray (or UHD TV) in full quality is a bit optimistic.

Both Sony and JVC should release by the end of the year new models with full UHD compatibility, ie HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0a and P3 gamut support, possibly even some form of limited HDR. The JVCs won't support a full 4K resolution, but for most this is the least important (as in noticeable) improvement brought by UHD content. These should be enjoyable for the next 5 years. Otherwise having a 4K projector unable to display upcoming UHD content in full quality would feel frustrating to some, well at least to me, especially at that price level.

I'm with Zombie on that one, I'd go for an interim PJ if something has to bought now. In fact that's what I did with the X500 I bought earlier this year to replace my X30. I really enjoy it, but I'm unlikely to keep it once we get more UHD content, which should happen in 2016 if UHD Bluray delivers as expected.

If I'm too late, I'm sure you'll enjoy the 300ES, it's a great PJ to play upscaled HD, but I doubt you'll keep it more than 2-3 years given its limitations with native UHD content.
Nothing to keep an owner from enjoying a projector for 5 years, even though it is not on the cutting edge. People do that all the time. As an example in audio we have Atmos currently available and many people are living with their current AVR and speaker setup and are very happy. Not saying the decision to buy right now is correct for this customer or not. Only he can decide what works best for him, but he should have enough data to make a decision.

Heck, I still get calls every now and then, from a person looking to replace their 480P projector that just broke. They were happy with what they had and if it had not broken, they would not be in the market. Now these people are different than you and I. We could not live that long with that projector.

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post #8 of 19 Old Today, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Nothing to keep an owner from enjoying a projector for 5 years, even though it is not on the cutting edge. People do that all the time. As an example in audio we have Atmos currently available and many people are living with their current AVR and speaker setup and are very happy. Not saying the decision to buy right now is correct for this customer or not. Only he can decide what works best for him, but he should have enough data to make a decision.

Heck, I still get calls every now and then, from a person looking to replace their 480P projector that just broke. They were happy with what they had and if it had not broken, they would not be in the market. Now these people are different than you and I. We could not live that long with that projector.
While I totally agree in general, we're talking here about someone who is about to buy a projector which still commands a cutting edge price when it will be outdated in just a few months, when new sources offer content that it won't be able to play in full quality and new models able to do so will be offered for the same price or less.

This is why, in this specific case, I would suggest to wait a few months or buy an interim model. Then, buy a model that actually stands a chance to be enjoyable for 5 years.

The VW1000 bought 3 years ago was cutting edge and if you could afford it then , you'll still be able to get a good two years out of it until the dust settles. It was a clever buy then.

The 500/600ES two years ago was already limited because unlike the 1x000 it doesn't support P3.

The 300ES is even more limited due to the lack of manual or dynamic iris.

While the 1000es was a real innovation 3 years ago, the further models became less and less up to the task as they cut down essential features. None of them fully supports the new content due to their slow HDMI 1.4 bandwidth.

I'd never try to dissuade someone who wants to buy a good 1080p projector now, or even a good eshift projector now (as long as we're not talking silly money like the JVC top of the line), but buying a UHD projector now is like buying a 720p projector just a few months before bluray and full hd was introduced. Given the amount of money involved, it doesn't seem like the best way to spend your money.

There is no future-proofing, but if you buy a UHD projector today it's because you want to be at the cutting edge of technology. This is why my advice is, if you can, to wait a few months so that the same amount gets you something able to fully support upcoming formats.

I agree that the 300ES will remain a great projector, but it's more able to play upscaled HD than UHD bluray, especially compared to the models just around the corner.

If the OP is aware of that and doesn't care about upcoming sources, then by all means he should buy the best he can afford today.

But if he's buying into 4K to be at the cutting edge and be able to play upcoming content in full quality, then it might make a huge difference to wait just a few months or buy a temporary projector in the meantime. If the upgrade can't be delayed.
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post #9 of 19 Old Today, 09:06 AM
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While I totally agree in general, we're talking here about someone who is about to buy a projector which still commands a cutting edge price when it will be outdated in just a few months, when new sources offer content that it won't be able to play in full quality and new models able to do so will be offered for the same price or less.

This is why, in this specific case, I would suggest to wait a few months or buy an interim model. Then, buy a model that actually stands a chance to be enjoyable for 5 years.

The VW1000 bought 3 years ago was cutting edge and if you could afford it then , you'll still be able to get a good two years out of it until the dust settles. It was a clever buy then.

The 500/600ES two years ago was already limited because unlike the 1x000 it doesn't support P3.

The 300ES is even more limited due to the lack of manual or dynamic iris.

While the 1000es was a real innovation 3 years ago, the further models became less and less up to the task as they cut down essential features. None of them fully supports the new content due to their slow HDMI 1.4 bandwidth.

I'd never try to dissuade someone who wants to buy a good 1080p projector now, or even a good eshift projector now (as long as we're not talking silly money like the JVC top of the line), but buying a UHD projector now is like buying a 720p projector just a few months before bluray and full hd was introduced. Given the amount of money involved, it doesn't seem like the best way to spend your money.

There is no future-proofing, but if you buy a UHD projector today it's because you want to be at the cutting edge of technology. This is why my advice is, if you can, to wait a few months so that the same amount gets you something able to fully support upcoming formats.

I agree that the 300ES will remain a great projector, but it's more able to play upscaled HD than UHD bluray, especially compared to the models just around the corner.

If the OP is aware of that and doesn't care about upcoming sources, then by all means he should buy the best he can afford today.

But if he's buying into 4K to be at the cutting edge and be able to play upcoming content in full quality, then it might make a huge difference to wait just a few months or buy a temporary projector in the meantime. If the upgrade can't be delayed.
Did you mis the post where he listed the price he was able to get it for? It is way below cutting edge price.

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post #10 of 19 Old Today, 09:39 AM
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Did you mis the post where he listed the price he was able to get it for? It is way below cutting edge price.
All is relative

It's still more than 3 times what it would cost to get a JVC as an interim PJ, allowing to put around $6000 (I account for a generous 50% depreciation of a $2000 unit) towards an upcoming fully compliant native 4K model, or the full $7000 if he can wait a few months.

If this is the absolute max budget, then it might make more sense. But there will be much better options under $10000 within the next few months. Unlike last year, UHD Bluray will be released so it would be very unlikely that fully compatible models are not offered.

Plus he won't have to buy second hand from a stranger on ebay, he could buy from AVS with a full guarantee and unparalleled service

Anyway, as you said earlier, I'm sure he has enough info to make an informed decision now
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post #11 of 19 Old Today, 09:47 AM
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Nothing to keep an owner from enjoying a projector for 5 years, even though it is not on the cutting edge. People do that all the time.
True, but anyone who posts here is much, much less likely to be one of those people

Kinda like how most people are happy driving boring sedans and people-carriers, but that's probably not true of most people who post on enthusiast car forums

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #12 of 19 Old Today, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Already made the decision, spent the 7000.00$ on the one from Conan here on this forum, although he did say he was going to ship it on Monday (yesterday) and give me a tracking number, I haven't heard from him. I'm sure he's just busy.
Rather then multi-quote:
Won't buy from AVS because I am in Canada and the exchange rate right now is just dreadful, plus the cost of shipping such a big thing all the way from Newyork.
Most on-line retailers ship free with in Canada for a big ticket item.

Won't buy a JVC, even a real 4K because their Smooth Motion engine is not that great (did allot of research on this and had others do some comparison tests with the 300es) the 3000es did much better in this department.
FI is most important to me...

And you know, even if I don't care for it, a little later on I can sell it on eBay for 8000.00$ and get 6000.00$.
Ebay reaches more people, plus (the last time I checked) ebay takes 10% of the sale up to 150.00$ _ not that bad.
The buyers and sellers at least have some protection on ebay, but there is pretty much none on Canuck Audio Mart.

Don't believe in buying intern stuff, my old Panny 4000 is just that, if I'm going to buy, I'll put the whole wad towards something I really want.

I seriously did plan to wait, but I just didn't want to pass up on this opportunity, nice thing too about about a private sale when spending lots of cash too is that the local taxes are not applied _ that's 840 bucks.
And it doesn't bother me one bit that the Canadian government doesn't get their cut, they are a bunch of incompetent morons that couldn't manage a kids birthday let alone my hard earned tax dollars.

One more thing, I had a 55es in my house and I was able to play with the iris and I know I am not going to miss it on the 300es.

Thanks for all your valued opinions everyone body, I'll post again after I've lived with it foe a week or two.

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post #13 of 19 Old Today, 10:09 AM
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Sounds like you made the right choice for you, hope you'll enjoy it!
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Sounds like you made the right choice for you, hope you'll enjoy it!
Thanks Manni, I hope I enjoy it too.
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post #15 of 19 Old Today, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I should also add for other peoples information, I checked into Sony and their warranty policy here in Canada.
As long as I have the original receipt from an authorized dealer, then Sony doesn't care who the owner is.
I didn't ask if it mattered if the projector was registered as it didn't apply here.
Conan didn't register it.
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conan is a long standing member here and goes through a number of different projectors over the years, I'm sure it will be in mint condition when you get it.

good luck and enjoy it.
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conan is a long standing member here and goes through a number of different projectors over the years, I'm sure it will be in mint condition when you get it.

good luck and enjoy it.
Agreed.

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I should also add for other peoples information, I checked into Sony and their warranty policy here in Canada.
As long as I have the original receipt from an authorized dealer, then Sony doesn't care who the owner is.
I didn't ask if it mattered if the projector was registered as it didn't apply here.
Conan didn't register it.

I have had many Sony products and never registered them. In the rare case I had to use the warranty, they only ask for the receipt to prove you got it within Canada. I got mine from the same place Conan did btw. You can find Conan's mini comp with this unit, I expect no bad surprises for you, only the opposite
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post #19 of 19 Unread Today, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, Conan did send an email to me as he said he would, but for some reason I didn't get it or more then likely I may have accidentally deleted it.
Anyways, it's on its way _ should be here next Monday.
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