XP21N vs. PLV60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been scouring these (and other) boards for weeks, reading reviews, comments, etc. I've narrowed my search and I'm considering Sanyo's both after trying out the NEC LT150 and finding it lacking for my situation. I'd like to pay no more than ~$6,500 and don't want to go the D-ILA route due to cost, setup, noise, etc. I'd appreciate any insights as to whether to go with the XP21N or the PLV60. Here's my specifics:

1. I'll be setting up the projector in my family room which has a fair amount of ambient light (thus the inadequacy of the LT150). Moreover, even at night, I prefer to have a light or two on.

2. My screen size will be 100" max. or less.

3. Proportionately, I watch a lot of DSS and OTA HDTV. Some of it is 16:9 (e.g., HBOH), but a lot of it is 4:3, so the native 16:9 of the PLV60, while nice, is not an overriding factor.

4. For DVD's I'll be using a Tosh SD6200 progressive scan player. For DSS I can (depending upon the quality of the internal doubler) use my iScan Pro.

5. Brightness, contrast, vivid colors and sharpness of the picture of most concern to me. I can live with a little screen door (my eyesight's not that great anyway!).

6. I'm happy to buy or build a grey screen, but would prefer not to purchase an external scaler (I've got the progressive scan DVD player and the iScan) or an HTPC.

7. I've got quotes which make the price differential between the two units insignificant.

Any thoughts, comments, (gulp) criticisms or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Jamie

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post #2 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 08:27 AM
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MItsubishi X400 3000 Ansi that will do the trick for you..no worries about ambient lightwith that unit...and you could use a gray screen if you wish..

Regards,
John
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post #3 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 10:24 AM
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I'm also trying to decide between the XP21N and the PLV-60. One question I have (sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere) is: Does 2500 lumens really look almost twice as bright to the eye as 1300 lumens?

Maybe that's not even the right question, because I think the answer is that the pupils will adjust to compensate for a change in brightness, and contrast is more important. But max brightness is not irrelevant, especially in a room with ambient light. So let me ask a different, more subjective, question: Will 2500 lumens look almost twice as good as 1300 lumens in a room with moderate ambient light?

-Mike
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 10:25 AM
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I am also considering the 21N w/panamorph. I am going to be ceiling mounting the projector. If I want to watch 4:3 material, does the pananmorph swing out of the way or something to allow this? Is this an easy thing to do?

Thanks
Robert
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 11:15 AM
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In my experience the 2500 lumen was VASTLY brighter than 1300 given my room lighting desires (ie. enough to read with and still get near-perfect visibility from the TV).

I previously tried a 1300 lumen DLP unit. This looked good with Zero other light in the room. At enough to navigate the room without tripping, I felt the projector lost some of it;s depth. Wit henough light to read, the image sucked. It was very flat, black level/contrast suffered.

The Sanyo is a pleasure in any lighting conditions. It is always bright, and the image has depth (does not get flattened out by ambient lighting). The colors are way better fro mteh get go, regardless of light or not.

I would say that 2500 lumens looks 100% better to my eye, but thats because it allowed me to use a projector for TV viewing, kinda an over the hump thing, where a 5% improvement can seem like the world if it gets you past a certain threshold.

If you want to use this a TV, and/or you want your room to be a den/media room, and not just a blackened theater, get the 21n. You will not regret the additional light output.

JFLNYC - I use the Sanyo 21n, I have a 100" screen, and I seem to have the same mix of viewing as you. IF you are ever in Boston (I live right by Logan airport), give me a visit.

dg
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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"JFLNYC - I use the Sanyo 21n, I have a 100" screen, and I seem to have the same mix of viewing as you. IF you are ever in Boston (I live right by Logan airport), give me a visit."

Hmmm. . . There's always a quick shuttle flight from La Guardia. . .

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post #7 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 12:48 PM
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Sure- anytime. It's likely cheaper than the rental fee.
I am a $13 cab ride from Airport
Just drop me an e-mail (goldfarbdan@hotmail.com) if you want to schedule.

I dunno if you are into audio, but actually I have more neat stuff on that side.


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post #8 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 12:50 PM
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Dan, what is the max throw distance for the XP21N with your 100" screen? (I assume that is a diaganol measurement, right?)
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post #9 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 12:52 PM
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Dan G:

How far do you have to sit in order not to see the screen door effect? Is this effect more noticeable with low ambient light or in a darken room? If you have seen a Sony 10HT, would you say the screen door effect is less noticeable in your Sanyo 21N? Are you using a scaler, if yes which one?

Lots of questions and I hope you do not mind them. This past weekend I saw a Sony 10HT with no scaler and I could see the screen door effect from about 15 feet away. Without a scaler, the image from this projector, using a DVD source, was not impressive.

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Thank you,

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post #10 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 01:24 PM
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What about using a Draper HIGH POWER screen wth the PLV-60? I have not tried it but it might work OK. A 105" diagonal screen in HDTV format can be had for under $300. at CousinsVideo.com

Christopher
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post #11 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 05:07 PM
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DanG

What arrangement did you finally end up with for scaling? Are you using the projector's or did you add an external scaler? Or did you end up with a progressive scan DVD player?

I've heard the Sanyo is a bit weak in the internal electronics department.

I'm also wrestling with this same decision. The XP21N is down to under $6 grand, the PLV60 is about $500 more. However it is also SXGA as opposed to the XGA of the XP21N. The extra brightness is really seductive as we also have some ambient light issues.

Along those lines, Dan, did you end up using a filter for night-time viewing because the projector is too bright?

I also have a soon to be shipped Panamorph which adds to the difficulty of this decision.

Darn, I sure wish I wasn't so far from Boston!

DanH


My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #12 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 06:24 PM
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The only issue I have is whether the XP21 is Panamorphable with a HD STB. I know it isn't with component video. I haven't had the opportunity to try a DTC100 RGB output with the proper DTC firmware and timings.

Otherwise, its an external scalar. But I don't want to pay $5K for 1080i scaling.

No problem with a DVD, I can use an HTPC. Also, I've been able to confirm that anamorphic DVD from a component out DVD player with a Panamorph should give a letter-boxed 2.35 image with proper aspect ratio and minimal hassle. The player provides the aspect ratio control in this case.



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post #13 of 14 Old 05-30-2001, 09:42 PM
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Buy the XP21n over the PLV 60. The 21 is much more ideally suited to your situation. It has doublethe light output, and MLA to reduce screen door.
Withte PLV 60 you are paying dearly for the panel shape, which is a detriment anyway for 4:3 material.

Of those two choices the 21n is vastly superior for your application IMO.
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post #14 of 14 Old 05-31-2001, 01:20 AM
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Cai,

How far do you have to sit in order not to see the screen door effect? Is this effect more noticeable with low ambient light or in a darken room? If you have seen a Sony 10HT, would you say the screen door effect is less noticeable in your Sanyo 21N? Are you using a scaler, if yes which one?
[/quote]

I had a XP21N for about 2 weeks shooting an 8 foot wide image with a Radeon HTPC. The throw ratio did not permit a smaller image in my room, unfortunately, so I had ample opportunity to quantify the screen door effect.

On an 8' wide screen, I found the screen door effect distracting at 10 to 12', but not very noticeable at 15'. Naturally, my seating position was 12' back.

Other than the screen door, I found the image to be outstanding, especially with the HTPC and Radeon. The internal scaler doesn't hold a candle to that combination of course.



[This message has been edited by piney (edited 05-31-2001).]
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