Panamorph 2.35:1 lens interest - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 86 Old 05-26-2001, 06:42 PM
Member
 
jnissen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Cupertino, CA,USA
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn,

I am with Alan, I like a near term solution. I already am set up with a 16x9 screen that goes wall to wall. Therefore in my current HT the vertical compression is preferable.

------------------
Jim Nissen

Jim Nissen
jnissen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 86 Old 05-26-2001, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Jeff, yes, the current Panamorph will convert a 16:9 projector to 2.35:1.

------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
post #63 of 86 Old 05-26-2001, 10:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Alberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn,

Put me on the list for the new 235:1 lens.... It sounds great.

Albert

Alberts is offline  
post #64 of 86 Old 05-27-2001, 06:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jeff Lemke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Grand Blanc, MI USA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Option 1 sounds really good but I like the near term idea. It seems the devolopment costs should be much lower because it would be so similar to the original. I like the idea of more light transmission as well. You could still use a 235 screen if you really wanted, going through an extra step of zoom/focus is not that big a deal.

Jeff
Jeff Lemke is offline  
post #65 of 86 Old 05-27-2001, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kelliot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 3,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn,
Before you worrying about the 2.35 lens, get me my 16:9 lens.

------------------
Ken Elliott

Ken Elliott
kelliot is offline  
post #66 of 86 Old 05-27-2001, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ken,

The 16:9 is currently in the hands of the production team, so it's not as if we have to wait until the 16:9 lenses are shipped to get started on the design phase of the next lens if there is enough interest. There has been a lot of operational optimization since the vendor problems of the last several months.

------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
post #67 of 86 Old 05-27-2001, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Carey P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Posts: 1,609
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Shawn,

I think this 2.35:1 with a similar design is a great idea if it can be made to fit easily as an add-on, side by side with the 16:9 model (to select one or the other or none). Changing screens to take advantage of the second alternative is nice in theory, but would require complete redesign of most home theater front walls. Not something I would want to tackle just yet. I'm sure black bars are not an issue (they will always exist somewhere, but easily masked with black velvet), though loss of light and resolution is (with me, anyway).

So far it looks like an enthusiastic response, but I would expect even greater interest once the 16:9 model is shipped and we can appreciate, first hand, the huge gains in image quality. Then I think you'll see some serious pre-order interest.

Carey

------------------
My forever in-progress Home Theatre
Carey P is offline  
post #68 of 86 Old 05-27-2001, 10:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave McKean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'd be interested. (assuming I'm happing with the first panamorph when it comes)
Dave McKean is offline  
post #69 of 86 Old 05-28-2001, 09:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
videohot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Shawnee KS USA & Cape Town South Africa
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'd be interested at a pre-production price yet I am in the "lets see how well this Pannie One works for me first" camp.

Larry Vale

Join Electronic Freedom Foundation
http://www.eff.org/
videohot is offline  
post #70 of 86 Old 05-28-2001, 07:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
fr8flyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va.
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn
I am also interested but with the same attitude of seeing how the 16x9 works.
Earl
fr8flyr is offline  
post #71 of 86 Old 05-28-2001, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
We seem to have sufficient interest to at least get things going. I'll post a prebuy arrangement tomorrow. I certainly understand why some would want to wait until they get their first Panamorph to sign up. The reason for doing this now is to validate the program and get it going to build momentum in the months before CEDIA. It's hard to predict where things will go in this dynamic market, so for now I need to keep it simple with a straightforward "buy now and save a lot" program.

------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
post #72 of 86 Old 05-28-2001, 09:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
David Wallis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn
Can you see any drama with the design or problems in creating this lens ? From the Pre-buy what will be the latest delivery date and how long will the Pre-buy last ?

I guess the key issue for me is that I am going to get a 1:78 Panamorph, but I would also like a 2:35 Panamorph. I need (want) both to have an ideal setup, but I am worried about how these two lenses will work together. I would like to be able to slide them both in or out without the need for fiddling with focus and centering etc.
Is delivery still on schedule for a week or two on the 1:78 Panny ?

DavidW
David Wallis is offline  
post #73 of 86 Old 05-29-2001, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Man E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Wilderness Near Hell
Posts: 4,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are there any available processors that are capable of taking an HDTV signal and performing faux anamorphicization or is this the market entrance point for such an HTPC device (which could also serve recording purposes)?


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels
Please visit The Manny Page!

HBO is guilty of Crimes Against Filmanity!

From Paragraph 44 of the 5th Report and Order: We note in this regard that broadcasters and networks have emphasized their commitment to high definition television.

Our Silent Angels Please visit The Manny Page!
Man E is offline  
post #74 of 86 Old 05-29-2001, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
David,

The strategy of the 2.35 lens is that it will leverage everything that is taking place with manufacturing the 16:9 lens. Consequently, I don't see the drama that we saw previously. Most of the issues involved getting vendors on board for manufacturing. That said, your second comment/question is the most important. The two-element 2.35 design works well, but in some cases it forms the image too low on the screen. I'm assuming that most will want the 2.35 image at least somewhere within the vertical space of a 16:9 Panamorph image. Consequently, there will be a third element in the back of the 2.35 lens to make this happen. However, the way the product is put together as well as the approach to correcting anamorphic aberrations is virtually identical.

The whole idea is to simply switch the lenses and switch your content/scaling. The projector will not have to be refocused from one Panamorph to the next.

------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging www.cgns.com

[This message has been edited by Shawn Kelly (edited 05-29-2001).]

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
post #75 of 86 Old 05-29-2001, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JoeFloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I own the WinTV-HD which is based on the Janus chipset from Teralogic. The Hipix is also based on this chipset and it seems that any board based on the Janus chipset will have similar aspect ratio options. I'm not sure if the AccessDTV board is also and adaptation of the Janus design.

As far as the WinTV-HD goes, it does provide some control over aspect ratio scaling at different display resolutions. The list of resolutions are set by the HDTV card and cannot be modified by the end user. For each resolution there is the option to display content in 4:3, 4:3 letterbox, and 16:9. In 16:9 mode full 4:3 aspect of the display resolution is used if the output resolution is a 4:3 aspect ratio. This acts similar to an anamoprhic expansion which can later be compressed by the 16:9 Panamoprh. It's not intended to be used with anamorphic lens and only offers a couple options that are common form standard TVs. None of which support 2.35 material scaled for a 4:3 display panel. However, AFAIK there is no technical reason why the software for the cards could not be updated to include more scaling options. It may take a software update of a firmware update, but it should be possible.
JoeFloyd is offline  
post #76 of 86 Old 05-29-2001, 10:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
David Wallis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Vigatec can do this and my DWIN Transvision scaler can also do this although its not a buy alone item.


DavidW
David Wallis is offline  
post #77 of 86 Old 05-29-2001, 11:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CCLAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Lake Havasu, AZ
Posts: 2,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn,

Will this "rail system" be such that the 16:9 and the 2.35:1 lens assemblies can be mounted on the same rail? I think that would almost be a must for owners of both lenses. One long rail mounted in front of the projector that holds both lenses. The 16:9 could be in place while the 2.35:1 lens was slid off to the side or vice versa, or, both lenses could be slid to the side, one on the left and one on the right of the main lens, for full 4:3 viewing. Is it possible?

Chris

My Home Theater is a work in progress.
CCLAY is offline  
post #78 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Chris, yes, that's the idea. Although there may need to be a secondary smaller rail to properly support the heavier Panamorph II, which also will have a slightly different center of gravity.

------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
post #79 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 05:55 AM
Member
 
woodworker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn:

If a rail system is used and the lenses are mounted in series, won't the compression be more than 1:2.35?

In other words, why can't a user just buy two 16:9 lenses and mount them in series? I understand that this would drop the image further than 8"+8", but that can be compensated for.

Am I missing something here? Is the 1:2.35 meant to be used as an alternative to the 16:9 or as an adjunct to it? If it is adjunctive, isn't the adjunct similar to the original?


------------------
Perry
www.woodht.homestead.com
woodworker is offline  
post #80 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Perry, the 2.35 lens is an alternative to the 16:9. Two 16:9 lenses in series do work, but they cut off a lot of light in the corners by the time the beam expands through the exit of the second lens. Two lenses also means more optics the light goes through - generally a bad thing. So the best solution seems to be to have two lenses, each of which can be slid into position on a rail.


------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
post #81 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 08:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Man E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Wilderness Near Hell
Posts: 4,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeFloyd:
However, AFAIK there is no technical reason why the software for the cards could not be updated to include more scaling options. It may take a software update of a firmware update, but it should be possible.
Agreed, however this does not afford access to HD subscription services which is where my interests in 2.35:1 FA (faux anim...) primarily lie. DVDs can be FA'd by an HTPC. The scalers previously mentioned are interesting, but are quite expensive.

Thanks.


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels
Please visit The Manny Page!

HBO is guilty of Crimes Against Filmanity!

From Paragraph 44 of the 5th Report and Order: We note in this regard that broadcasters and networks have emphasized their commitment to high definition television.

Our Silent Angels Please visit The Manny Page!
Man E is offline  
post #82 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CCLAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Lake Havasu, AZ
Posts: 2,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shawn,

This has been covered in bits and pieces before I think, but how about a one shot explanation:

We will be setting our DVD players or software to put out a 4:3 image of a stretched 16:9 source or disc, the projector will be set to use the whole 4:3 panel and the lens will compress it back to 16:9, correct? Now, how will this affect a 2.35:1 disc keeping the same as above settings? Will the image geometry be correct? Will it need to be altered at all to display properly? Lastly, even though the new Pannie 2 will be the ultimate for true 100% 2.35.1 movie viewing nirvana, the Pannie 1 will still give us an advantage for viewing 2.35:1 discs, correct?

I'd like to know these things before I put my name on the Pannie 2 pre-buy list.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Thanks Shawn,

Chris

My Home Theater is a work in progress.
CCLAY is offline  
post #83 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1016 Post(s)
Liked: 523
Excuse my ignorance, but what happens when you run across those discs or HDTV movie broadcasts that haven't been framed at 2.35:1 exactly, but 2.40:1 (the ratio chosen for masking splice lines) or slightly less than 2.35:1?

That would be a majority of DVDs. Each telecine operator will frame a movie slightly different. They should use the industry standard, but many don't to this day.

Wouldn't that cause some problems?

Dan

------------------
STOP DFAST and The MPAA!!

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #84 of 86 Old 05-30-2001, 09:33 AM
Member
 
Jim Saxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My apologies if my earlier post goes through creating a
duplication in messge:

Shawn,

Do you think it is fair to those of us who have waited so
patiently with few complaints for the 16:9 panamorph
to be time-pressured to pre-order the 2:35 lens? I think
we should be given a period of time after receiving the original power buy to evaluate it before being asked to decide on a second power buy on the newer lens. Do you have a problem with that?

Jim

Jim Saxon is offline  
post #85 of 86 Old 05-31-2001, 06:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CCLAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Lake Havasu, AZ
Posts: 2,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
^^^

My Home Theater is a work in progress.
CCLAY is offline  
post #86 of 86 Old 05-31-2001, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Shawn Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
copied from the pre-buy thread ...

This program was started simply as a way to respond to a group of customers asking for a 2.35:1 lens. I thought it made sense to pursue if enough people signed up for a near-term prebuy and if I could get the lens out a month before CEDIA to leverage the potential exposure. To make this work, PII prebuy customers are offered a price advantage over everyone else who buys later in the program to justify their sponsorship.

Jim, I understand your views and certainly we will continue limited-time, escalating but discounted prices over the next couple of months just as with the PI program. Will PI buyers get a further discount? That’s only good business practice as well. However, these prices must be higher than the first pre-buy price to justify people signing up to make this program happen. While it’s still very early to nail this down, I anticipate that after the current prebuy the next PII prebuy pricing (prior to shipping) might be around $1,700 for PI owners and $1,950 for new Panamorph customers.


------------------
Shawn Kelly
Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com

Shawn Kelly
Panamorph, Inc.
www.panamorph.com
Shawn Kelly is offline  
Closed Thread Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off