New $995 Panamorph Lens - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 85Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #1 of 475 Old 08-05-2015, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
New $995 Panamorph Lens

We have been talking to Panamorph about how expensive anamorphic lenses are and it seems the bottom line is a combination of cost, volume and supporting distribution channels. A lens with maybe the quality of their CineVista and retailing around $995 seems like it would be something that projector owners would be interested in, especially with the increase in brightness and resolution it would bring when watching 2.35:1 movies. Along with the speed and accuracy of aspect ratio changes. So we decided to put this to the test. If Panamorph gets an “I’m interested” from 500 people then we’ll start a Powerbuy program with them to make this happen. Then as soon as they get 300 preorders for the lens it will start shipping in about 90 days. For more info on the program and to send them an “I’m interested” go to: http://www.panamorph.com/x-lens-project/

Added 8/12/15
Well, it turns out there were over 50 people interested in the first 5 days of this thread alone so with that kind of momentum Panamorph is moving forward with the powerbuy. At this point the target is 150 pre-orders asap so the lens can start shipping around Thanksgiving. All the details are on Panamorph’s X1 page but basically these will be phone orders into Panamorph so they can touch base with everyone regarding the order, questions, setup, etc. The first 300 pre-orders will also get a customized 4.2”x1.75” “Thank you” metal plate for making this project happen that you can frame and hang, mount on your screen border, etc.

Added 9/12/15
Sorry about the inconvenience. Panamorph is working on getting the site back up now but it won't be active until Sunday.
Because of this they have extended the free mount offer until Monday (9/14/15) night.

Added 10/09/15
Update from Panamorph:

The X1 lens, now officially named “Phoenix”, is through the design phase and has been tested/demoed with flying ECC-corrected colors (pun intended) using actual production optics. We’re now ready for setting up full production. While we now have over 700 people interested in the lens the fact is that we still need actual purchase commitments from a lot more than we currently have to cover tooling and other production startup costs. So, being in the final stretch, here’s what we’re going to do to make things happen as fast as possible for everyone.

Order the Phoenix lens now and the price is just $895 (ie $100 off).

Order the Phoenix lens with the projector attachment kit and the price is just $995 (ie $200 off).

The projector attachment kit includes your choice of either the newly designated XM1 custom mount for most JVC/Epson/Sony projectors OR the newly designated XMU universal mount which attaches to most projectors mounted with the Chief RPA and Omnimount ceiling mounts. More info on the mounts can be found on the Phoenix webpage.

Everybody who has already signed up (Thank You!) will have their pricing adjusted accordingly.

This is a limited time deal, so please order as soon as possible through the Phoenix webpage.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 10-09-2015 at 10:12 AM.
Mike Garrett is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 475 Old 08-05-2015, 09:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 2,553
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
We have been talking to Panamorph about how expensive anamorphic lenses are and it seems the bottom line is a combination of cost, volume and supporting distribution channels. A lens with maybe the quality of their CineVista and retailing around $995 seems like it would be something that projector owners would be interested in, especially with the increase in brightness and resolution it would bring when watching 2.35:1 movies. Along with the speed and accuracy of aspect ratio changes. So we decided to put this to the test. If Panamorph gets an “I’m interested” from 500 people then we’ll start a Powerbuy program with them to make this happen. Then as soon as they get 300 preorders for the lens it will start shipping in about 90 days. For more info on the program and to send them an “I’m interested” go to: http://www.panamorph.com/x-lens-project/
Done!
Tom Bley is online now  
post #3 of 475 Old 08-05-2015, 09:49 AM
Member
 
wingm8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I'm interested!
wingm8 is offline  
post #4 of 475 Old 08-05-2015, 08:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
DigitalAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: United States of Advertising
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 29
What's the normal retail?

EDIT: Never mind, I see this is for a new potential product that would be similar to the $3k CineVista.

DigitalAV is online now  
post #5 of 475 Old 08-05-2015, 08:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Posts: 4,034
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Liked: 431
I sent them an "I'm interested" at that link, but then it occurred to me that I'm in Canada. Is this offer available to Canadians? If so, and assuming you get enough interest, do we have a choice as to shipping methods?
Kilgore is offline  
post #6 of 475 Old 08-06-2015, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
I sent them an "I'm interested" at that link, but then it occurred to me that I'm in Canada. Is this offer available to Canadians? If so, and assuming you get enough interest, do we have a choice as to shipping methods?
Yes and maybe on the shipping.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #7 of 475 Old 08-06-2015, 09:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Posts: 4,034
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Yes and maybe on the shipping.
If the shipping involves UPS, I will most definitely pass. I refuse to pay their outrageous and completely unnecessary brokerage fees.
gkf15 and cardoski like this.
Kilgore is offline  
post #8 of 475 Old 08-06-2015, 10:00 AM
Home Theater Lover!
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 8,189
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1655 Post(s)
Liked: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
If the shipping involves UPS, I will most definitely pass. I refuse to pay their outrageous and completely unnecessary brokerage fees.

I'm sure you could request FedEx. Or do what many Canadians do - get a US shipping address at a mailbox / shipping service location, and have them ship it to you via the service of your choosing.

AV Science, Inc. Direct (585) 671-2972 craig@avscience.com www.avscience.com

Home theater equipment sales and advice. Call to see the JVC RS600 in Northern California

My theater pics - http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2386514
Craig Peer is online now  
post #9 of 475 Old 08-06-2015, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
If the shipping involves UPS, I will most definitely pass. I refuse to pay their outrageous and completely unnecessary brokerage fees.
I am assuming that you would want USPS. Which may be a possibility. Would need to work out the details.
Kilgore likes this.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #10 of 475 Old 08-07-2015, 06:53 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 12,856
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2347 Post(s)
Liked: 1507
500 people? I realize AVS is a big forum, but that seems like quite the stretch.
Stereodude is offline  
post #11 of 475 Old 08-07-2015, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
500 people? I realize AVS is a big forum, but that seems like quite the stretch.
The 500 does not all have to come from AVS Forum.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #12 of 475 Old 08-07-2015, 08:23 PM
Newbie
 
Freedom1776's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Done. I want 2.40 widescreen movies at a great price.
Freedom1776 is offline  
post #13 of 475 Old 08-08-2015, 02:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Is this lens going to be good enough to use with a 4K projector?

If you like it, then it doesn't matter what the forum says...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #14 of 475 Old 08-08-2015, 04:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,300
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Yes
Ellebob is online now  
post #15 of 475 Old 08-08-2015, 08:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 7,880
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2773 Post(s)
Liked: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
Is this lens going to be good enough to use with a 4K projector?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Yes
It really depends on what you're looking to get out of a lens. Any 1.33x anamorphic lens will be "compatible" with a 4K projector or any projector with a 1.78:1 aspect ratio. But will it present a transparent experience? No. Will it add little to no artifacts the image? No. Will it compare favorably to some of the other, better performing far more expensive, anamorphic lenses out there? No. But will it give you that black bar-less experience many enthusiasts are after? Definitely. And will this lens be a good deal at $995? Absolutely.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Crazy Projector Journey!!
Seegs108 is online now  
post #16 of 475 Old 08-08-2015, 09:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 605 Post(s)
Liked: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
If the shipping involves UPS, I will most definitely pass. I refuse to pay their outrageous and completely unnecessary brokerage fees.
I'll second that! UPS is to be avoided at all costs (no pun intended) when it comes to shipping product across the U.S. Canadian border.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #17 of 475 Old 08-08-2015, 01:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: New York,NY,USA
Posts: 1,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
We have been talking to Panamorph about how expensive anamorphic lenses are and it seems the bottom line is a combination of cost, volume and supporting distribution channels. A lens with maybe the quality of their CineVista and retailing around $995 seems like it would be something that projector owners would be interested in, especially with the increase in brightness and resolution it would bring when watching 2.35:1 movies. Along with the speed and accuracy of aspect ratio changes. So we decided to put this to the test. If Panamorph gets an “I’m interested” from 500 people then we’ll start a Powerbuy program with them to make this happen. Then as soon as they get 300 preorders for the lens it will start shipping in about 90 days. For more info on the program and to send them an “I’m interested” go to: http://www.panamorph.com/x-lens-project/
interest!
raoul is offline  
post #18 of 475 Old 08-08-2015, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by raoul View Post
interest!
Be sure and sign up.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #19 of 475 Old 08-09-2015, 02:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It really depends on what you're looking to get out of a lens. Any 1.33x anamorphic lens will be "compatible" with a 4K projector or any projector with a 1.78:1 aspect ratio. But will it present a transparent experience? No. Will it add little to no artifacts the image? No. Will it compare favorably to some of the other, better performing far more expensive, anamorphic lenses out there? No. But will it give you that black bar-less experience many enthusiasts are after? Definitely. And will this lens be a good deal at $995? Absolutely.
I think you got my point Seegs; apart from removing the black bars it sounds like it's going to reduce picture quality over just zooming with a 4K projector. Therefore it seems a rather short term purchase to me; a 'good deal' isn't something that spoils the image quality and creates issues like chromic aberation, etc.

If you like it, then it doesn't matter what the forum says...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #20 of 475 Old 08-11-2015, 07:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I think you got my point Seegs; apart from removing the black bars it sounds like it's going to reduce picture quality over just zooming with a 4K projector. Therefore it seems a rather short term purchase to me; a 'good deal' isn't something that spoils the image quality and creates issues like chromic aberation, etc.
I'm intersted!
ankurjohriddsmd is offline  
post #21 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 01:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
I think you got the wrong quote Ankurjohriddsmd. Unless you're saying you're interested in something that reduces image quality, but at least it's cheap.

If you like it, then it doesn't matter what the forum says...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #22 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AMartin56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,242
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I think you got my point Seegs; apart from removing the black bars it sounds like it's going to reduce picture quality over just zooming with a 4K projector. Therefore it seems a rather short term purchase to me; a 'good deal' isn't something that spoils the image quality and creates issues like chromic aberation, etc.
I definitely think this is much more popular in the 'other forum' where I normally reside.

I would never add a $6k lens to my $2k projector. If I could have justified that expense I would have purchased a better projector in the first place. But a $1k lens is easier to swallow and allows me to experience / experiment with something I wouldn't have considered before.

And if this project goes through and I get one I will fully know that I didn't get a top of the line lens. But if it is anything like the Cinevista (which gets good reviews) I think it will mesh well with the quality of the rest of my system (even though this might sound appalling to the high rollers out there). I mean why put a silk hat on a pig? (Not that I think the 40ES is a pig).

I actually think the work around of using panel convergence to adjust for optical compromises is an interesting approach.
AMartin56 is online now  
post #23 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,300
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Liked: 233
There are advantages and disadvantages to using an anamorphic lens, saying it reduces image quality is not telling the whole story. Technically, whenever you add more glass can have an effect on image quality even if using a very high quality lens. The chromatic aberrations can be corrected with the convergence adjustments and is really a moot point. The amount of problems this lens causes is minor and barely noticeable from a quality of glass point of view. The Cinevista is a very good quality lens and while it may not be as good as others it is no slouch either and will have no problem with 4K.

The vertical scaling to fill the in the black bars causes much more artifacts then the lens does. Many test patterns with a small pixel gap between their lines or circles, etc will look ugly when scaled. This is because on a 2.35 picture there are only about 810 horizontal pixels or 1620 for 4K/UHD. When you try to vertically stretch that to 1080 or 2160 there will be problems because they are not a multiple of 810/1620. While some scalers might do a better job, none will look good when looking at test patterns.

Now there is test patterns and human perception. Similar to a Darbee, if you were to look at test patterns you would see all the problems/ artifacts the Darbee creates and the test patterns would look ugly, very distorted. But, many people enjoy the look the Darbee gives and use the Darbee in their system even with all the artifacts it creates. The same is true of the vertical stretch, while it can not add resolution to the source material and vertically stretching the picture for the anamorphic lens does add some artifacts. However, perceptually it gives the effect of more resolution and detail. If you are a video purist you should not use an anamorphic lens, Darbee, Reality Creation, Super Resolution, E-shift or whatever flavor "enhancement" that adds artifacts to the source material. Others may enjoy the perceived increase in resolution and detail and appreciate the brighter image an anamorphic lens provides.
Ellebob is online now  
post #24 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I think you got the wrong quote Ankurjohriddsmd. Unless you're saying you're interested in something that reduces image quality, but at least it's cheap.
I can't argue with what you said, because placing any additional glass in front of a lens technically reduces the quality of the image to some degree. But the exact same same thing could be applied to zooming. Why would you want to zoom? Zooming enlarges the image, increasing the pixel size and pixel spacing, reducing the image quality. Also when using an A-lens, you hit the correct image size every time. You would be surprised at how many people call me and talk about lens memory missing the mark and having to go in and do some adjustment to make the image fit the screen.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #25 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 07:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 7,880
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2773 Post(s)
Liked: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
There are advantages and disadvantages to using an anamorphic lens, saying it reduces image quality is not telling the whole story. Technically, whenever you add more glass can have an effect on image quality even if using a very high quality lens. The chromatic aberrations can be corrected with the convergence adjustments and is really a moot point. The amount of problems this lens causes is minor and barely noticeable from a quality of glass point of view. The Cinevista is a very good quality lens and while it may not be as good as others it is no slouch either and will have no problem with 4K.

The vertical scaling to fill the in the black bars causes much more artifacts then the lens does. Many test patterns with a small pixel gap between their lines or circles, etc will look ugly when scaled. This is because on a 2.35 picture there are only about 810 horizontal pixels or 1620 for 4K/UHD. When you try to vertically stretch that to 1080 or 2160 there will be problems because they are not a multiple of 810/1620. While some scalers might do a better job, none will look good when looking at test patterns.

Now there is test patterns and human perception. Similar to a Darbee, if you were to look at test patterns you would see all the problems/ artifacts the Darbee creates and the test patterns would look ugly, very distorted. But, many people enjoy the look the Darbee gives and use the Darbee in their system even with all the artifacts it creates. The same is true of the vertical stretch, while it can not add resolution to the source material and vertically stretching the picture for the anamorphic lens does add some artifacts. However, perceptually it gives the effect of more resolution and detail. If you are a video purist you should not use an anamorphic lens, Darbee, Reality Creation, Super Resolution, E-shift or whatever flavor "enhancement" that adds artifacts to the source material. Others may enjoy the perceived increase in resolution and detail and appreciate the brighter image an anamorphic lens provides.
You can't make definitive statements on this lens yet. Do we know for sure the X1 lens is the same as the Cinevista? Why wouldnt they call it the same if it were?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panamorph
The X1 lens housing is in preliminary design but will employ a patented optical system very similar in quality, specifications and performance to our CineVista lens model.

Sounds like a small bump down in overalll quality. I've owned most of the popular anamorphic lenses out there and I'd make the argument that there are definite differences in PQ as you move up in price through the range of 1.33x lenses. For instance I think there is a noticeable difference going from the UH480 to the ISCO IIIL so I can only imagine what the downgrade going from the UH480 to the Cinevista or this lens would be like. But then again for $995 it's probably a heck of a lens. Panamorph sems to be good at value propositions in the lens market. I suspect this lens is for those who have a cheap projector and are not willing to spend more on an add on lens than what they paid for their projector. I don't think this lens would pair well with a $3000+ projector as I've seen what a cheaper anamorphic lens can do in general to PQ or at least I think those who have a critical eye would find the same results. I'd rather zoom. This has been the contention of many. Even people who've owned the ISCO IIIL in the past have switched to zooming because they didn't like what an add on lens did to the image and remember this is using an $8000+ lens.
stef2 and Kelvin1965S like this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Crazy Projector Journey!!

Last edited by Seegs108; 08-12-2015 at 07:36 AM.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #26 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 07:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I can't argue with what you said, because placing any additional glass in front of a lens technically reduces the quality of the image to some degree. But the exact same same thing could be applied to zooming. Why would you want to zoom? Zooming enlarges the image, increasing the pixel size and pixel spacing, reducing the image quality.

Zooming (the optical kind) doesn't reduce image quality any more than sitting closer to the screen does. It's not the same thing as adding extra glass or using the digital scaling you need for an A-lens.
stef2 and Kelvin1965S like this.
kriktsemaj99 is offline  
post #27 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3227 Post(s)
Liked: 1915
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
You can't make definitive statements on this lens yet. Do we know for sure the X1 lens is the same as the Cinevista? Why wouldnt they call it the same if it were?




Sounds like a small bump down in overalll quality. I've owned most of the popular anamorphic lenses out there and I'd make the argument that there are definite differences in PQ as you move up in price through the range of 1.33x lenses. For instance I think there is a noticeable difference going from the UH480 to the ISCO IIIL so I can only imagine what the downgrade going from the UH480 to the Cinevista or this lens would be like. But then again for $995 it's probably a heck of a lens. Panamorph sems to be good at value propositions in the lens market. I suspect this lens is for those who have a cheap projector and are not willing to spend more on an add on lens than what they paid for their projector. I don't think this lens would pair well with a $3000+ projector as I've seen what a cheaper anamorphic lens can do in general to PQ or at least I think those who have a critical eye would find the same results. I'd rather zoom. This has been the contention of many. Even people who've owned the ISCO IIIL in the past have switched to zooming because they didn't like what an add on lens did to the image and remember this is using an $8000+ lens.
I bet A/B blind scope image testing between a properly set up CineVista and a UH480, you would not be able to pick which is which. The advantage to going to a UH480 is the wider throw range available and the ability to use the lens on a slide, due to CA correction. The CineVista, when set up correctly throws a nice image.

AV Science Sales, 585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
Sony, JVC, Epson, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Triad, Atlantic Tech, M&K, RBH, SVS, Polk, Stewart, Seymour, Falcon, DNP, SI, Screen Excellence, Carada & more.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #28 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 08:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,300
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Liked: 233
There are people in both camps and zoom vs. a lens each has its advantage and disadvantages. That's personal preference and often budget related, it really depends on an individuals situation. If one had $5k to spend, one might prefer the image quality of a $5K projector and using the zoom method over a 2.5k projector with a 2.5k lens. Others might like the 2.5k projector with a lens for their needs as the 2.5K projector might have other qualities that make it preferable over the 5K projector for their situation. I have calibrated the Cinevista on a Sony 1100 and it did much better than I thought. This was for another company that subcontracted us to do the calibration. I personally thought it was crazy to pair a 2K lens with a 28K projector but that wasn't my call and from my understanding their customer wasn't willing to spend 8k+ on a lens, but the combo worked out better than I thought. I don't know about this new lens but if it is "maybe" the same quality as the Cinevista but less expensive due to economies of scale if they get enough orders and go direct without a dealer channel. It will be a heck of a bargain for those that prefer using a lens.
Ellebob is online now  
post #29 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I can't argue with what you said, because placing any additional glass in front of a lens technically reduces the quality of the image to some degree. But the exact same same thing could be applied to zooming. Why would you want to zoom? Zooming enlarges the image, increasing the pixel size and pixel spacing, reducing the image quality. Also when using an A-lens, you hit the correct image size every time. You would be surprised at how many people call me and talk about lens memory missing the mark and having to go in and do some adjustment to make the image fit the screen.
I have previously owned a fairly decent A-lens for about 5 years, an Isco II and it was set up in pretty much optimum conditions (minimum zoom on my projector, so I didn't need a curved screen as pincushion was negligible). However, I found that it didn't add anything to a 'faux 4k' JVC X500 let alone a true 4K projector and I also compared side by side with the lens on my X35 and the X500 using eshift: The X500 won (DI was disabled and both were calibrated via my Lumagen). The extra 'fill' of the eshifted image and lack of extra glass in the way (which reduced ANSI contrast further) meant that I found the non lens, higher resolution zoomed option the better choice, it certainly wasn't 'reducing the image quality'.

In this optimum lens set up it was ironic that one of the 'pros' for a lens, the extra brightness, was not apparent. This is because when adjusting from minimum zoom in the projector to 1.33x the brightness increases (due to aperture change in the projector). Therefore I got 100 Lux when zooming and 101 Lux when I used the lens; essentially no difference in brightness terms.

I've found the lens memory pretty decent on the X35 (I had to use it when removing the lens because the Isco slightly magnified the height). Also the X500 lens memory seems to be pretty much spot on each time for me too. I do use my Lumagen for instant 'shrink' method aspect ratio change when I'm viewing 16:9 menus and trailers and I've already set to 2.35:1 zoom, so that side steps having to make adjustments and wait for the lens memory to change the zoom.

I'm not against an A-lens per see, but I think potential buyers should stop and think about how useful a cheap lens will be in future: When I bought my Isco II I knew I'd be able to use it with various projectors over time as I upgraded and I did. However buying a lens now that will reduce the image quality for a 4K projector seems a little short sighted to me.

Regarding the blind test comment about the Cinevista verses a UH480 (similar performance to my old Isco II?): If I moved my Isco II and it wasn't set up a sharply as it could be (astigmatism adjustment in particular) then I would notice, I'd feel like my glasses needed cleaning or my eyes were tired as the image just didn't look right. Therefore I'd be surprised if someone with similar experience to me wouldn't notice the softer edges caused by the cheaper lens/electronic correction. Perhaps it would be a good test though as if you don't notice, then save the money I guess, but in that case you probably won't need to worry about 4k either...

If you like it, then it doesn't matter what the forum says...

Last edited by Kelvin1965S; 08-12-2015 at 08:59 AM.
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #30 of 475 Old 08-12-2015, 10:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 13,552
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1352 Post(s)
Liked: 1120
I have the Panamorph UH480 A-lens and love it. That said, I do get a more...for lack of better word..."precise looking" image when I zoom
vs when the A-lens is employed. But I'm grateful for the UH480 which allows me the opportunity for a bigger image when I want it vs using the zoom, and I'm pleasantly surprised how nice the A-lens image looks. But a non-A lens image at least in my set up seems optimal for pure image quality.
R Harkness is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off