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JVC Projector Shootout - X70 vs X500R vs X550R Review

29K views 262 replies 45 participants last post by  Mozen 
#1 · (Edited)
***Please see updates below for a near completed writeup. Please note contrast measurements were removed from attachments until I have time to correct them. Lumen measurements are attached and raw data can be provided upon request. Anything you would like me to test before I get rid of one or two of the PJ's speak now or forever hold your peace! :)


***Update Tuesday Eve** (Please note I have found the eror in my Contrast measurements and will be correcting them soon. The measurements are correct but my conversion from volts to lux was skewed so the values need correction. The LUMEN OUTPUTS are not affected as they were done AT the screen with a different meter)

**See attached PDF for lumen measurements***

Mozens Shootout Review of JVC DLA-X70 / RS-55 vs DLA-X500 vs DLA-RS400 / DLA-X550R
Projectors Tested:
DLA-RS55 / DLA-X70, 40hrs on bulb
DLA-X500R ,
 

Attachments

#2 ·
Looking forward to it. Are you aware of some of the techniques for measuring ANSI CR with some accuracy? That can be a tough one and we've seen some others not doing it very well.

--Darin
 
#14 ·
I have a custom measurement setup I built specifically for measuring the low low black levels on these so it should be pretty accurate! I tested it briefly and it can measure down to .05 lux with high accuracy for getting the black level measured properly. Will be measuring near the lens for better accuracy
 
#10 ·
I would love to see pics of the opening scene of Lucy. When i watched it on my 4910 my son and I said the same thing, "WOW", it looks like we're there.
 
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#13 ·
Finally! Something REAL to discuss. Looking forward to it!

I too would be interested in knowing if they significantly improved input lag in this generation or not
 
#16 ·
Mozen,

Could you check out the new Motion Enhance settings?
I'm still curious what effect it actually has on motion.
JVC haven't been too clear about whether it is a setting
you can use on its own, or whether it is to be used
with CMD set on as well.

Mostly its a curiosity for me.

I've been amazed at the focus people have had in
the German forum regarding clear motion drive
and banding. For one thing I've never noticed it.
But then, I only use it for TV broadcast, eg sports,
and I wouldn't think many use it anyway for movies.
 
#21 ·
Mozen,

Could you check out the new Motion Enhance settings?
I'm still curious what effect it actually has on motion.
JVC haven't been too clear about whether it is a setting
you can use on its own, or whether it is to be used
with CMD set on as well.

Mostly its a curiosity for me.

I've been amazed at the focus people have had in
the German forum regarding clear motion drive
and banding. For one thing I've never noticed it.
But then, I only use it for TV broadcast, eg sports,
and I wouldn't think many use it anyway for movies.
I use CMD for all things animated, so it's an important feature to have working properly for me with no significant issues which banding would qualify!
 
#17 ·
I'm sure the new models are going to an improvement and I'm still hoping to sell my X500R so I can purchase an X750R, but watching Tomorrowland on my 105" wide scope screen last night on the X500R I was thinking how amazing the picture I currently have right now is. :)
 
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#18 ·
Are you familiar with the "flickering" sometimes seen due to the dynamic gamma when using the auto iris in the X500? If so, I'd love to hear if this has been improved in this year's line.

I can live with the other trade offs of the auto iris, but I personally found the flickering to be too distracting to use on my RS57. I kept thinking my bulb was starting to flicker until I realized that this was the dynamic gamma getting tripped up when using the auto iris.

Many people seem to not notice this or not be bothered by it, but I'm really hoping JVC calmed this down.
 
#22 ·
Are you familiar with the "flickering" sometimes seen due to the dynamic gamma when using the auto iris in the X500? If so, I'd love to hear if this has been improved in this year's line.
Me too. The first scene with Morgan Freeman in Oblivion down in the dark where Tom Cruise is tied up is one where I am curious whether the new models show improvement.


--Darin
 
#25 ·
Mozen - for the 3D comparison, are you familiar with how to measure 3D lumen output? I'd like to know how much brighter (if any) the RS400/X550 is vs. the 4910/X500 or the RS55/X70

if you can play back a 3D BD ISO, I have a small 3D calibration disk I can send you with 100% IRE patterns in 3D mode. thanks
 
#27 · (Edited)
Mozen,

Thank you very much for doing the shoot out and the results so far.

In regards to your comment in the other thread about how the new DI works a bit differently, are you testing the DI in both of it's Auto Modes - Auto 1 and Auto 2? I presume, as with the previous models, they will give slightly different performance of the DI and gamma, so worth checking both.

Also, you mention the fan noise being lower, which I presume is compared to the X70. Is that both in high and low bulb? I'm quite curious if the new models sound any louder, or different, in high bulb mode vs the last generation.

Finally: is your screen 120" wide or diagonal (16:9 or 2:35:1 shaped?) and what is your screen's gain? Thanks.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for the update to your first post. Sounds like you have checked out the CMD and was just wondering if you are seeing any banding that was talked about with the previous generation? TIA
You may already be aware of this, but looks like there has been quite a bit of discussion of this aspect on hifi-forum.de in German from the Cine4home get togethers.

https://translate.googleusercontent...4.html&usg=ALkJrhi64EmERsHzWOpY_uF6ylKw4exq1A

I get the impression it is better on the new models, but I'm reading everything translated.

--Darin
 
#31 ·
Zombie: Yes I have just finished all the lumen and contrast measurements and have the 3D results as well. I did use a proper 3D calibration file as well.

Harkness: I have not yet tested accurately (will) but it seems it is about the same in low mode and slightly quieter in high mode. In RE to the DI, it seems the difference between Auto 1 and Auto 2 has not changed in regards to the way Auto 2 treats gamma differently (or vice versa dont remember) however, the main difference I am finding is that with the X550, it is much harder to get the DI to close ALL THE WAY to its max. With the X500, it will fully close with a dark image that has some light parts but the X550 requires an almost 99% total black scene to FULLY close down. A good example of this is a scene in Interstellar when they come out of the wormhole and they show the ship in space. The X500 will clamp fully down in this scene but the X550 will only clamp down partially. In fact, I have not been able to find a movie scene that can fully clamp down the X550 aperture. The "clamp down" amount between Auto 1 and Auto 2 is the same. The difference lies in how it treats the image. The Dynamic Contrast is equal with Auto 1 and Auto 2. In other words, my findings will reveal that a 400,000:1 Dynamic Contrast is NOT really attainable in real world viewing. After I crunch the numbers we are going to be around 80,000;1 Dynamic and 10 to 15,000 max native

TOE: Havent checked for banding yet. Just tried it briefly so far.
 
#33 ·
How many hours on the X550?? You know the contrast improves drastically in the first few hours. It should measure around 20000:1 with the iris at 0 and 150-200000:1 with the DI on calibrated to rec709.
 
#39 ·
Im using a custom built meter for contrast and blacks and a calibrated off the shelf meter for simple lumen measurements. The contrast meter I built is extremely sensitive and measures down to 0 lux with no loss of accuracy. Its incredibly difficult to use because even a blinking LED in the room can throw the measurement but extremely accurate when ambient light is controlled. This is the only way to accurately measure under 1 lux. Will be in the report ;)
 
#37 ·
Thanks Mozen, that's informative. Funny you mention that scene in Interstellar, since that is exactly the other scene I had in mind. I've used it recently quite a bit to test out various settings on my RS57 - higher brightness, lower brightness, with DI, without DI. I really like what the DI does for that scene on the RS57 - things get more realistically dark. (Though at the cost somewhat of the vividness of the ship and stars).

I'm glad to read the sound levels are the same or better.

I agree with others though about the contrast numbers you are suggesting for the RS400. They are so far from the normal results measured for previous JVC models, as well as far from what Cine4home measured with the RS400, that something immediately seems wrong there. Hopefully that gets cleared up.

Looking forward to the rest of your shoot out!
 
#44 ·
BUT guys! MY impression this far is WOW. CR's aside I think once Im finished we'll have a clear winner here with the X550 and the lower CR numbers are irrelevant as since even though the CR and blacks on an X70 or X500 are much better than the X550, they are struggling with brightness. The X550 you can clamp the iris down all the way and still have a brighter, higher contrast picture than an X70 or X500 that has to have the iris open or bulb on high. I believe this is the gap JVC tried to fill-make a brighter projector and sacrifice native CR in order to gain real world CR....its all relative...an X70 on high with aperture open has worse blacks and is dimmer than an X550 on Low with the aperture closed...real world CR vs equipment CR
 
#45 ·
BUT guys! MY impression this far is WOW. CR's aside I think once Im finished we'll have a clear winner here with the X550 and the lower CR numbers are irrelevant as since even though the CR and blacks on an X70 or X500 are much better than the X550, they are struggling with brightness.
For your case that is true, but please understand that for some other people and their setups they are not struggling with brightness with the old models. So, they would like to know how the new model does for cases where the old models already had enough lumens for them even with the iris far from open.

--Darin
 
#46 ·
Measurements aside (and I think it's still a good thing to provide yours), I'm certainly looking forward to your subjective impressions of how the images look in practice, as you are getting at. Please include impressions of any differences in image clarity/sharpness as well, thanks.
 
#54 ·
Any chance of checking the CMS for non-linearities? Some of the earlier models were cumbersome to set up between the 25~100% saturation points (especially on the red side of the gamut).
 
#60 ·
If possible to compare how all 3 different models behave from cold to hot, and how room temperature effects gry scale/ gamma.

Just calibrate them all to D65, and your prefered gamma, and then run a 10 piont grayscale every 10 min while heating up, untill they are stable on the calibrated target. and then try simulate a weather change, turning up or own the room temperature, and see if it keeps on target, or the gamma / grayscale starts to shift.

Then you should be able to tell how long all 3 models need to heat up before they ready to display a movie movie.
 
#64 · (Edited)
This is easy, after 20-30 minutes they are ready for calibration and does not drift much after. I have checked this when profiling my K10A, and after around 25 minutes you get stable readings. No need to do it so complicated, and we are not talking CRT´s here as they seem to be very vary of small temperature variations. If you have a good room it should be no problem keeping a stable temperature with a AC or heating.

On the other hand all JVC´s need recalibration every couple of hundred hours to be ar reference level.
 
#61 ·
Hi Mozen,

Thanks for the detailed testing.

It is interesting that for the X550R that the black level, per your pdf chart, for manual Iris at -15 shows a black level of 5 but the the Auto Iris shows a much lower 0.9. So does this mean that auto Iris has lower black levels then manual Iris? Does the Iris in manual mode appear to fully close? Wondering why auto Iris would be less.

Going from memory if I recall correctly I believe the German web site did comment on the X5000 having milky type black when compared to the higher model X7000 when they where watching a dark scene in a movie.

Wondering how the RS57/x700 compares to the RS500/x750 in regards to black levels.
 
#62 ·
Sorry to jump in on this thread, but since I recently got a rs49, the best way to calibrate it is to set the colour profile to Off? (Thus allowing High Bright only). I actually have my PJ calibrated this way (together with a Lumagen), but I'm still testing settings. I have all "enhancements" off.
 
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