Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 249 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7441 of 26211 Old 02-29-2016, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MJV29 View Post
I will send a letter but I am not sure what I need to put down so Samsung will understand what I'm talking about.
But henrich3 just posted this a couple of posts ago and it was re-quoted in the post before yours: Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread
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post #7442 of 26211 Old 02-29-2016, 09:16 PM
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Yeah, it was posted when I was writing. Sorry!
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post #7443 of 26211 Old 02-29-2016, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MJV29 View Post
Yeah, it was posted when I was writing. Sorry!
No worries man. Don't want to be a real stickler, but henrich3's posted a while before your question about it ,over half an hour. Did you start writing and then walk away for a while maybe
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post #7444 of 26211 Old 02-29-2016, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
No worries man. Don't want to be a real stickler, but henrich3's posted a while before your question about it ,over half an hour. Did you start writing and then walk away for a while maybe
I was talking about Tcramers repost of henrich3's post, about what to write to Samsung. I didn't see it because I was typing on my iPad.
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post #7445 of 26211 Old 02-29-2016, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
But Samsung may not provide what we want unless more UBD-K8500 owners submit trouble tickets on this issue. I've submitted 3 tickets and they didn't seem too concerned. Perhaps if more people complained they would take it more seriously...



http://www.samsung.com/us/support/contact

Thats probably true. But instead i just returned it to Crutchfield as defective.

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post #7446 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
How about this?
---------
UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray player black screen problem

Samsung's UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray player menu does not display on my JVC DLA-RS600 projector. No video appears on my screen when the UBD-K8500 is powered on until after I load a movie. This is due to your player's default video mode for its menu: 2160p/60 4:4:4 12-bit color depth. My projector cannot display 2160p/60 4:4:4 12-bit. If Samsung provided a firmware update to either lower the menu's color depth to 8-bit or reduce the color space to 4:2:0, then the menu would display properly.

This problem is Samsung's to fix, since your player's menu is not being output in a valid video format. Please note hdmi.org's list of valid formats:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...0_faq.aspx#146

I greatly appreciate any assistance you can provide!
---------
I am being told pretty emphatically that it is the cable. Even without the update, the JVC is working with the Samsung, as long as you have the right cable. Yes, I am talking about the menu showing up, without doing any tricks. This has been tested on more than one JVC/Samsung combination.

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post #7447 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post
Henrich3 is right.

I just connected the samsung directly to my projector and there is no image. The marantz as Ralph mentioned is just dropping it to 4K 60 fps 8 bits.
Greetings,

Just for clarification, the Marantz isn't dropping the signal as far as I can tell. What I said was that when connecting the Samsung to the HDMI input on the Marantz' front panel (which must use a different board than the HDMI inputs on the rear panel) the Samsung will output the GUI at 4K/60 but only as high as 8 bit 4:2:0 and UHD Blu-ray but only as high as 8 bit Rec 709 (from what I can tell).

When connecting the Samsung to any of the rear panel HDMI inputs it outputs the GUI at full resolution (which the JVC won't display) and UHD Blu-ray at BT2020 10 bit (or 12 bit with Deep Color set to auto) 4:4:4.

Christian says that the Samsung outputs full resolution through the Marantz' REAR channel HDMI inputs which displays properly on his X750. Neither myself, Dave Vaughn, or Kris Deering, using the same player, projector and Marantz AV8802A have had it work. Dave and myself have gone so far as to try using the same HDMI cabling, no go.

I haven't had any success connecting the player directly to the projector (unless using HDMI input 2 set to EDID B). Going through the Marantz definitely has something to do with getting a 4K image to display on the JVC.

As far as playback of UHD Blu-ray goes (using the disc loading method) I get full resolution at 10 bits with no problem.


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post #7448 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I am being told pretty emphatically that it is the cable. Even without the update, the JVC is working with the Samsung, as long as you have the right cable. Yes, I am talking about the menu showing up, without doing any tricks. This has been tested on more than one JVC/Samsung combination.
Greetings,

Well then if that's true, exactly what is the update (with respect to the Samsung/JVC combination) going to address? I have heard stories, mine included, where upon first powering up the Samsung, it worked, displaying the Samsung menu. After shutting everything down and powering up later it would no longer work. Nothing had physically changed. I haven't had it display that menu screen at full resolution since.

The RIGHT cable? Let's hope that information is included with the FW update.


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post #7449 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I am being told pretty emphatically that it is the cable. Even without the update, the JVC is working with the Samsung, as long as you have the right cable. Yes, I am talking about the menu showing up, without doing any tricks. This has been tested on more than one JVC/Samsung combination.
Thanks for the info Mike. Does JVC have a list of recommended cables? I would be interested in hearing what they are using. I know when I had my sync issues with the 57, they suggested the HDbaseT extender for anything over 35 ft. I wonder if they have cables over that length that they have tested?

Again, thanks for the info

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post #7450 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
How about this?
---------
UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray player black screen problem

Samsung's UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray player menu does not display on my JVC DLA-RS600 projector. No video appears on my screen when the UBD-K8500 is powered on until after I load a movie. This is due to your player's default video mode for its menu: 2160p/60 4:4:4 12-bit color depth. My projector cannot display 2160p/60 4:4:4 12-bit. If Samsung provided a firmware update to either lower the menu's color depth to 8-bit or reduce the color space to 4:2:0, then the menu would display properly.

This problem is Samsung's to fix, since your player's menu is not being output in a valid video format. Please note hdmi.org's list of valid formats:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...0_faq.aspx#146

I greatly appreciate any assistance you can provide!
---------
I would suggest you change the mention of 12-bit to 10-bit. 12-bit is output only when Deep Color is turned on in the Settings Menu. Samsung may just reply that you should turn Deep Color off if you have issues.
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post #7451 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
So, it looks like Samsung addressed the problem with the HDR > SDR conversion with the last update, 1003.

I got some more UHD bluray movies today, so I decided to try the different settings on the Fury again.

With the Spider-Man movie, I tried the 4K/60 4:2:0 10bit Bt2020 setting (Without HDR) and the image looked perfect.

So I went back to Maritan disc, which was super dim previously, and now it looks perfect too.

I can leave all the settings basically zero'd out. Using normal gamma and the image looks fantastic. The iris functions, which is locked out in HDR mode.

Anyone who has a Fury should give this setting another try.
Could you list all your settings, please. Normal gamma? You are using low lamp, Manual Iris @-8 if I remember correctly and DI Auto 2. So the projector is in Gamma D and 'Reference' color profile so that you are using the color filter in the JVC?
So, no dim picture or crushed blacks?
Have you tried HDMI level on the JVC (under the signal menu), to "Enhanced"?

Thanks!
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post #7452 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
How about this?
---------
UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray player black screen problem

Samsung's UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray player menu does not display on my JVC DLA-RS600 projector. No video appears on my screen when the UBD-K8500 is powered on until after I load a movie. This is due to your player's default video mode for its menu: 2160p/60 4:4:4 12-bit color depth. My projector cannot display 2160p/60 4:4:4 12-bit. If Samsung provided a firmware update to either lower the menu's color depth to 8-bit or reduce the color space to 4:2:0, then the menu would display properly.

This problem is Samsung's to fix, since your player's menu is not being output in a valid video format. Please note hdmi.org's list of valid formats:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...0_faq.aspx#146

I greatly appreciate any assistance you can provide!
---------

Just submitted one myself even though my menus show fine (which I'm perplexed by… the Denon 7200, even though supporting 444/12/60p is showing on the JVC "3840/24" 8bit while leaving the i/p scaler OFF which is supposed to "passthrough" the input rez).

The other oddity last night was no matter what I navigated thru on the Samsung I was not getting any cable sync drops reported the other night (but betting maybe it's due to the above stmt).

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post #7453 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Just submitted one myself even though my menus show fine (which I'm perplexed by… the Denon 7200, even though supporting 444/12/60p is showing on the JVC "3840/24" 8bit while leaving the i/p scaler OFF which is supposed to "passthrough" the input rez).

The other oddity last night was no matter what I navigated thru on the Samsung I was not getting any cable sync drops reported the other night (but betting maybe it's due to the above stmt).
I assume that your AVR is just reading your PJ's EDID and downgrading the Sammy's 10-bit color depth to what your PJ can handle (8-bit). If you take the Denon out of the signal path, the initial menu after powering on the Sammy would fail, I assume.
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post #7454 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 08:49 AM
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RS500 auto standby when video signal no longer present?

I replaced my former JVC D-ILA projector with the new RS500. With my older JVC there was a "Sleep Timer" setting that automatically put the projector in standby mode if there was no video signal present for 15, 30, or 60 minutes. I used 15 minutes so that when I turned off my stereo, the projector would always turn off 15 minutes later.

I have not been able to find this feature on the RS500. The RS500 instead has on "Off Timer", but this turns the projector off in 1, 2, 3, or 4 hours even if there is a video signal (which is a nice feature as well).

I currently have the "Off Timer" set to 4 hours just in case I forget to turn off the projector after watching it, but I really liked the old 15 minute sleep timer feature.

I can see both versions being useful, does anyone know if there is a hidden way to get the "Sleep Timer" behavior too?
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post #7455 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
Try Craig Rounds. I'm flying him out from Chicago to AZ after my Radiance Pro gets its UHD fw update - that's how highly I regard his calibration skills. Since you're local for him, even better!

http://www.cir-engineering.com/

And Craig is very familiar with the JVC's (what about auto-Cal)?

Thanks!

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post #7456 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by vrvideo View Post
I replaced my former JVC D-ILA projector with the new RS500. With my older JVC there was a "Sleep Timer" setting that automatically put the projector in standby mode if there was no video signal present for 15, 30, or 60 minutes. I used 15 minutes so that when I turned off my stereo, the projector would always turn off 15 minutes later.

I have not been able to find this feature on the RS500. The RS500 instead has on "Off Timer", but this turns the projector off in 1, 2, 3, or 4 hours even if there is a video signal (which is a nice feature as well).

I currently have the "Off Timer" set to 4 hours just in case I forget to turn off the projector after watching it, but I really liked the old 15 minute sleep timer feature.

I can see both versions being useful, does anyone know if there is a hidden way to get the "Sleep Timer" behavior too?
There is " Eco Mode " ( page 55 of the owners manual ) - ECO Mode

Setting Description
On Enables “ECO Mode” to minimize power consumption in the Standby mode.
0 RS-232C / LAN communication cannot be used in the Standby mode.
0 If there is no signal transmission and operation for 20 minutes while an image
is projected, the power management switches the equipment automatically into
standby mode.

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post #7457 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:24 AM
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I actually have a 6ft & a 25ft of the BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable that I bought years ago but, I didn't try the 25ft cable because I bought the Monoprice Redmere Cabernet active cable thinking it was all the rage. I'll have to try my BJ 25ft hdmi with no HD Fury Integral and run it from the Samsung to JVC and see if I can get a GUI without inserting a disc.

Yes, I read BJ Cables tutorial. Good read.
I have several of the Series 1 cables also and I asked BJC how they compared to the new certified cables. The answer was that because the same method was being used to terminate the cables, they probably would pass--particularly because of the larger conductor size. My Series 1 cables are about a half-inch in diameter. Certification costs money, so I doubt that the discontinued Series 1 cables are going to be tested by anyone other than we owners by trial and error.
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post #7458 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:37 AM
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I have several of the Series 1 cables also and I asked BJC how they compared to the new certified cables. The answer was that because the same method was being used to terminate the cables, they probably would pass--particularly because of the larger conductor size. My Series 1 cables are about a half-inch in diameter. Certification costs money, so I doubt that the discontinued Series 1 cables are going to be tested by anyone other than we owners by trial and error.
Yeah, the series 1 are nice and thick they are a little harder to route because the cable is so stiff, but they are a great, well made cable for the money. I did not know they were discontinuing them.

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post #7459 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:43 AM
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After more testing, this has been reported to me:

1. Set the projector on “high lamp (aperture completely open)”, “reference color” and it will set itself to “Gamma D”. Those are absolutes. If you don’t do those you cannot get close to what the director intended, no matter how you set anything else.

2. Start with a “User” profile and JVC color/tint/brightness/contrast at zero.

3. Use The Martian as a reference disc. Simply because that’s the title that’s been tested most so far.

4. Set your JVC advanced Gamma menu (picture tone/dark level/bright level) to 15/7/2. This seems right for The Martian. This may vary from disc to disc depending on how the brightness level they are mastered at.

5. Use the Samsung user video presets to set Contrast/Brightness to compensate for your screen size. This will be a one-time adjustment in the Samsung. In other words, if you had a 65” projected image (nobody does), you could leave the Samsung at zero. If you have a 120” image you might set Brightness to +2 and Contrast to +7. This will vary a little from user to user as to the viewing environment (room & screen material/gain). As a test to confirm this, set the projector to the smallest possible screen size with the zoom, and put that into lens memory. Then setup a second lens memory for how you normally watch (for me 120”). Set the Samsung to normal picture. And zoom between the two settings. Then, set the Samsung to user memory video with +7 contrast and +2 brightness and look at the difference. You will see why this is important.

6. Fine tune your JVC color/tint/brightness/contrast. No more than +/- 3 clicks should be required.

7. As you watch different movies, you may find 2-3 different basic brightness levels mastered on different program content, which may require changing the advanced Gamma (Picture tone/dark level/bright level). But, you should not have to change the other settings. Do not know if the 2-3 different Gamma adjustments can also be memorized. Hopefully that will cover the vast majority of titles. This is a lot of tweaking, but keep in mind not every regular HD Blu-ray is mastered the same either, and individual adjustments are needed as well if you want to perfect the image.

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post #7460 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:51 AM
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And Craig is very familiar with the JVC's (what about auto-Cal)?

Thanks!
Not sure. I got a Spider 5 Pro and if JVC has updated their Autocal program to accomodate that meter by the time Craig arrives, I was going to ask if he could use that rather than the standard 2 point gray scale that's in the service menu. Since I have a Radiance Pro, Autocal isn't needed to get a quality result, but it would be nice to make the PJ as accurate as possible before doing the Radiance cal. If you intend to contact him about your calibration, that would be a good question to ask. I'm sure if he doesn't know Autocal already he could figure it out without too much effort, especially if he reads up on it before your cal visit.
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post #7461 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 09:55 AM
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I'm wondering if JVC will give us the option to not use HDR, like Sony does.
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My rs600 kicked into gamma d automatically when playing The Martian without having to first set high lamp no aperture...
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I'm wondering if JVC will give us the option to not use HDR, like Sony does.
That would be nice.
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post #7464 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:23 AM
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Greetings,

Just for clarification, the Marantz isn't dropping the signal as far as I can tell. What I said was that when connecting the Samsung to the HDMI input on the Marantz' front panel (which must use a different board than the HDMI inputs on the rear panel) the Samsung will output the GUI at 4K/60 but only as high as 8 bit 4:2:0 and UHD Blu-ray but only as high as 8 bit Rec 709 (from what I can tell).

When connecting the Samsung to any of the rear panel HDMI inputs it outputs the GUI at full resolution (which the JVC won't display) and UHD Blu-ray at BT2020 10 bit (or 12 bit with Deep Color set to auto) 4:4:4.

Christian says that the Samsung outputs full resolution through the Marantz' REAR channel HDMI inputs which displays properly on his X750. Neither myself, Dave Vaughn, or Kris Deering, using the same player, projector and Marantz AV8802A have had it work. Dave and myself have gone so far as to try using the same HDMI cabling, no go.

I haven't had any success connecting the player directly to the projector (unless using HDMI input 2 set to EDID B). Going through the Marantz definitely has something to do with getting a 4K image to display on the JVC.

As far as playback of UHD Blu-ray goes (using the disc loading method) I get full resolution at 10 bits with no problem.


Regards,
I thought when the receiver was sent back for the upgrade, only the rear inputs were upgraded, the front was not. I thought that was the difference between getting an upgraded receiver straight from the factory versus an upgrade from United Radio.
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post #7465 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:24 AM
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5. Use the Samsung user video presets to set Contrast/Brightness to compensate for your screen size. This will be a one-time adjustment in the Samsung. In other words, if you had a 65” projected image (nobody does), you could leave the Samsung at zero. If you have a 120” image you might set Brightness to +2 and Contrast to +7. This will vary a little from user to user as to the viewing environment (room & screen material/gain). As a test to confirm this, set the projector to the smallest possible screen size with the zoom, and put that into lens memory. Then setup a second lens memory for how you normally watch (for me 120”). Set the Samsung to normal picture. And zoom between the two settings. Then, set the Samsung to user memory video with +7 contrast and +2 brightness and look at the difference. You will see why this is important.
I haven't tried that, but adjusting the Brightness & Contrast controls in a disc player to compensate for screen size sounds questionable to me. Brightness (black level) and Contrast (white level) settings shouldn't vary with different screen sizes or gains. The PJ's lamp power and aperture settings are more appropriate tools to achieve one's preferred light output on different screen sizes. In addition, sometimes user settings in a disc player get wiped out when its firmware is updated, so you'd need to verify after each player fw update that your settings weren't wacked. Better to create a separate Picture Mode in the PJ that has all the correct video settings for UHD & HDR. I've configured the User 1, 2, and 3 Picture Modes in my RS600 for 2D, 3D, and UHD, since each video type requires different settings to look correct.
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post #7466 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:29 AM
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After more testing, this has been reported to me:



1. Set the projector on “high lamp (aperture completely open)”, “reference color” and it will set itself to “Gamma D”. Those are absolutes. If you don’t do those you cannot get close to what the director intended, no matter how you set anything else.



2. Start with a “User” profile and JVC color/tint/brightness/contrast at zero.



3. Use The Martian as a reference disc. Simply because that’s the title that’s been tested most so far.



4. Set your JVC advanced Gamma menu (picture tone/dark level/bright level) to 15/7/2. This seems right for The Martian. This may vary from disc to disc depending on how the brightness level they are mastered at.



5. Use the Samsung user video presets to set Contrast/Brightness to compensate for your screen size. This will be a one-time adjustment in the Samsung. In other words, if you had a 65” projected image (nobody does), you could leave the Samsung at zero. If you have a 120” image you might set Brightness to +2 and Contrast to +7. This will vary a little from user to user as to the viewing environment (room & screen material/gain). As a test to confirm this, set the projector to the smallest possible screen size with the zoom, and put that into lens memory. Then setup a second lens memory for how you normally watch (for me 120”). Set the Samsung to normal picture. And zoom between the two settings. Then, set the Samsung to user memory video with +7 contrast and +2 brightness and look at the difference. You will see why this is important.



6. Fine tune your JVC color/tint/brightness/contrast. No more than +/- 3 clicks should be required.



7. As you watch different movies, you may find 2-3 different basic brightness levels mastered on different program content, which may require changing the advanced Gamma (Picture tone/dark level/bright level). But, you should not have to change the other settings. Need to check to see if the 2-3 different Gamma adjustments can also be memorized. Hopefully that will cover the vast majority of titles. This is a lot of tweaking, but keep in mind not every regular HD Blu-ray is mastered the same either, and individual adjustments are needed as well if you want to perfect the image.

Thanks for the info Mike.
Are these settings used to help compensate for dimmer picture some have mentioned while using with the Samsung or a "normal" picture.
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post #7467 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:32 AM
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I haven't tried that, but adjusting the Brightness & Contrast controls in a disc player to compensate for screen size sounds questionable to me. Brightness (black level) and Contrast (white level) settings shouldn't vary with different screen sizes or gains. The PJ's lamp power and aperture settings are more appropriate tools to achieve one's preferred light output on different screen sizes. In addition, sometimes user settings in a disc player get wiped out when its firmware is updated, so you'd need to verify after each player fw update that your settings weren't wacked. Better to create a separate Picture Mode in the PJ that has all the correct video settings for UHD & HDR. I've configured the User 1, 2, and 3 Picture Modes in my RS600 for 2D, 3D, and UHD, since each video type requires different settings to look correct.
I've been told directly by JVC not to set either Brightness or Contrast over +/-10 on the projector side of the equation, which is why I made the adjustments on the player with very good results. When playing back a UHD disc, I can make minor adjustments in the projector to cater to a specific disc. Until we get a calibration disc that supports HDR output, this is the best we are going to get as of today.
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post #7468 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for the info Mike.
Are these settings used to help compensate for dimmer picture some have mentioned while using with the Samsung or a "normal" picture.
Once I set up my system this way, I'm getting a fabulous UHD picture. Color me impressed.
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post #7469 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:42 AM
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I've been told directly by JVC not to set either Brightness or Contrast over +/-10 on the projector side of the equation, which is why I made the adjustments on the player with very good results. When playing back a UHD disc, I can make minor adjustments in the projector to cater to a specific disc. Until we get a calibration disc that supports HDR output, this is the best we are going to get as of today.
Sony's UHD Blu-rays contain HDR Brightness & Contrast test patterns. Press 7669 on the player's remote right after the disc loads, if you have a Samsung remote with a keypad. There may be a pop-up keypad that would work with the standard Sammy remote, but I haven't checked.
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post #7470 of 26211 Old 03-01-2016, 10:48 AM
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I will do this later this week...I need to reprogram my URC remote so that I can have number keys. The Samsung remote is horrible (maybe that's a compliment...I think it's worse than that).

One thing...are you positive the test patterns are in HDR?
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