BenQ W11000 : 4K DLP projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 03:30 AM - Thread Starter
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BenQ W11000 : 4K DLP projector

The NDA is over so BenQ will shown at ISE AMSTERDAM 2016 their first 4K DLP projector based on new TI chip :

source :

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...ecteur-dlp-4k/

Press release :

Groundbreaking 4K Projector and True Videophile-Grade Home Theatre. BenQ is proud to introduce the flagship W11000 4K UHD reference-grade home theatre projector at ISE 2016. Equipped with big zoom and extreme H/V lens shift capabilities, its installation flexibility transforms any home into a true cinema.Additionally, visitors of ISE will witness the announcement of a new entry in BenQ’s Home Entertainment series.The W8000 is painstakingly engineered, built, and individually calibrated to deliver precise Rec. 709 colour and performance for an authentic movie-going experience the way filmmakers intended. And with five optional lens choices, W8000 fits right into any home cinema room.
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post #2 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by kraine View Post
The NDA is over so BenQ will shown at CES 2016 their first 4K DLP projector based on new TI chip :

source :

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...ecteur-dlp-4k/

Press release :

Groundbreaking 4K Projector and True Videophile-Grade Home Theatre. BenQ is proud to introduce the flagship W11000 4K UHD reference-grade home theatre projector at ISE 2016. Equipped with big zoom and extreme H/V lens shift capabilities, its installation flexibility transforms any home into a true cinema.Additionally, visitors of ISE will witness the announcement of a new entry in BenQ’s Home Entertainment series.The W8000 is painstakingly engineered, built, and individually calibrated to deliver precise Rec. 709 colour and performance for an authentic movie-going experience the way filmmakers intended. And with five optional lens choices, W8000 fits right into any home cinema room.
No mention of WCG, HDR? Hope it's half the price of the Sony, whom I heard have degrading SXRD panels.
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post #3 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 03:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post
No mention of WCG, HDR? Hope it's half the price of the Sony, whom I heard have degrading SXRD panels.
I Think that it's the plan to propose a 4k projector that coast half the price of the new 520.
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post #4 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 03:57 AM
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I Think that it's the plan to propose a 4k projector that coast half the price of the new 520.
From what I've read, it seems it could be anywhere from 5 to 8 thousand. Since in the states things are cheaper, compared to their Euro counterparts, so it' most likely closer to 5g's for me
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post #5 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 06:17 AM
 
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So this new DMD is a different DMD to the wobulation one shown off at CEDIA by TI? This is a true, native, UHD DMD?
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post #6 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
So this new DMD is a different DMD to the wobulation one shown off at CEDIA by TI? This is a true, native, UHD DMD?

This is probably the same DMD shown at CEDIA. They will hovewer promote it as 4K, more or less the same "marketing trick" JVC has done with E-shift ?

Last edited by J.P; 01-07-2016 at 06:42 AM.
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post #7 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by J.P View Post
This is probably the same DMD shown at CEDIA. They will hovewer promote it as 4K, more or less the same "marketing trick" JVC has done with E-shift ?
Not really the "same marketing trick" as the TI design uses a chip with 4 Mpixels and when using pixel shifting displays 8 Mpixels that can be individually addressed and full resolution 4K images can be displayed.
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post #8 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:04 AM
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Not really the "same marketing trick" as the TI design uses a chip with 4 Mpixels and when using pixel shifting displays 8 Mpixels that can be individually addressed and full resolution 4K images can be displayed.

Yes, the TI approuch for 4K is better.
Point is, and what was asked, either is not what we would generally call a true physical pixel to pixel 4K chip
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post #9 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:07 AM
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It may not be a pixel to pixel 4K chip but unlike the e-shift systems, this will display a pixel to pixel 4K image. Its a great approach since the smaller chip limits lens cost.
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post #10 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:09 AM
 
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It's also going to help with contrast as the mirror size doesn't have to get as small for a true UHD chip.
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post #11 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
So this new DMD is a different DMD to the wobulation one shown off at CEDIA by TI? This is a true, native, UHD DMD?
I don't know the technical definition of "wobulation" or if the new TI 4K chip is "wobulating", but each micro-mirror is throwing up two frames of 4 million pixels each at a switching speed of 9000 switches per second to achieve the 8 million pixels which constitute a 4K image. There's no way the human eye can detect switching artifacts at that speed. Perfect pixel alignment, high ANSI contrast and brightness along with accurate color are said to be characteristic of the DLP chip. TI has posted a video about the chip here: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/dlp-techno...Koverview2-wwe
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post #12 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:23 AM
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Any technical specs available? Contrast or lumen output?
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post #13 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I don't know the technical definition of "wobulation" or if the new TI 4K chip is "wobulating", but each micro-mirror is throwing up two frames of 4 million pixels each at a switching speed of 9000 switches per second to achieve the 8 million pixels which constitute a 4K image. There's no way the human eye can detect switching artifacts at that speed. Perfect pixel alignment, high ANSI contrast and brightness along with accurate color are said to be characteristic of the DLP chip. TI has posted a video about the chip here: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/dlp-techno...Koverview2-wwe
Haha, I love how they're trying to say on/off contrast doesn't matter and that ANSI contrast is the unit of measurement that matters more in that video...
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post #14 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballis View Post
It may not be a pixel to pixel 4K chip but unlike the e-shift systems, this will display a pixel to pixel 4K image. Its a great approach since the smaller chip limits lens cost.

True,it is a very smart approach for TI and their fast DMDs. But it also means heavy processing for the human brain, and "rainbow-hell" is the first thing that comes to mind.
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post #15 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:38 AM
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True,it is a very smart approach for TI and their fast DMDs. But it also means heavy processing for the human brain, and "rainbow-hell" is the first thing that comes to mind.
Rainbows, maybe, unless they use leds (I dont see them so I dont care either way.)
Heavy processing? Hardly. You won't be able to tell at the speeds these mirrors shift.

And being a single chip DLP design, they are actually sharper than Sonys native 4K 3-chip designs. Not that it really matters at these resolutions, but comparing dlp wobulation to e-shift or thinking that this design is inferior is a mistake. At least as far as resolution/sharpness goes.
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post #16 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:43 AM
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Either way, it sounds like BenQ is trying to up their game and it's good to see more front projection competition coming. I'd like to see DLP try and take things to the next level also.
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post #17 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 07:45 AM
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Me to. I love DLP single chippers but the tech has been stagnant for way to long.
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post #18 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 08:02 AM
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Wow, if they hit the sweet spot between the JVC's and the Sony true 4ks they may have struck gold. I wouldn't mind going back to a DLP as long as they improve on/off contrast coupled with their high ANSI contrast.
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post #19 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 08:14 AM
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Will be very interested in the light source (UHP bulb, LED, laser-phosphor), total lumen output, color wheel speed (if using a bulb source), and the differences between this and the Optoma prototype using the same chip being shown this week at their CES booth.

I would also be very interested to see the route Vivitek and LG go as they have both recently introduced very compelling DLP based products. Vivtek with fantastic ANSI contrast models and LG with LED light source small form factor projectors already employing a .6X size DMD. An LG with this new "4k/UltraHD effective" DMD and 2x - 3x the LEDs for a real 2000+ lumen color correct image could really be a game changer. Also the Vivitek booth at CES has the new Microlite Dark Crystal 1.8 screen being shown (supposedly either the biggest game changer in screens or snake oil depending on who you ask). Lots of good questions to be asked at all of those booths!

I can't wait until we get some solid reporting from these (Optoma, Vivitek, LG, BenQ?) booths at CES. I wish I could have been back this year. Thank you very much Kraine for always keeping us updated with the latest info, you do great work and I'm very much looking forward to your site's coverage of ISE 2016!

Finally, I just hope no manufacturer (or Ti in their reference design) is stupid enough to strip 1080p 3D from these products as they should be able to produce the cleanest ghost free 3D image ever seen from a consumer projector (although, apparently the new JVCs are finally getting pretty good at 1080p 3D too).
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post #20 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 08:26 AM
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Rainbows, maybe, unless they use leds (I dont see them so I dont care either way.)
Heavy processing? Hardly. You won't be able to tell at the speeds these mirrors shift.

And being a single chip DLP design, they are actually sharper than Sonys native 4K 3-chip designs. Not that it really matters at these resolutions, but comparing dlp wobulation to e-shift or thinking that this design is inferior is a mistake. At least as far as resolution/sharpness goes.

Well, for those who experince this, stress-headaches and the visual "rainbows" is the human brain picking up DLPs inherent technology weakness.
That said, and as you point out, there is also a lot about DLP to desire.
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post #21 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 08:30 AM
 
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well, for those who experince this, stress-headaches and the visual "rainbows" is the human brain picking up single chip dlp with a color wheel inherent technology weakness.
That said, and as you point out, there is also a lot about dlp to desire.
ftfy
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post #22 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 08:44 AM
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ftfy

Yes, with 3-chip or separate color-sources(LED) this problem is minmal to non existent
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post #23 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 08:44 AM
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Maybe someone can ask them about WCG and HDR? Nice to see more projectors getting into UHD.
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post #24 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 09:27 AM
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It's also going to help with contrast as the mirror size doesn't have to get as small for a true UHD chip.
Good point, I am 100% for wobulation if it produces better native contrast. The one concern is how will it affect uniformity, it seems it could make one half frame perform better than the other.
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post #25 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I don't know the technical definition of "wobulation" or if the new TI 4K chip is "wobulating", but each micro-mirror is throwing up two frames of 4 million pixels each at a switching speed of 9000 switches per second to achieve the 8 million pixels which constitute a 4K image. There's no way the human eye can detect switching artifacts at that speed. Perfect pixel alignment, high ANSI contrast and brightness along with accurate color are said to be characteristic of the DLP chip. TI has posted a video about the chip here: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/dlp-techno...Koverview2-wwe
I wonder if they'll use the term "wobulation" as it seems like the word ended up having a short lived and somewhat negative connotation in the market.

The description in the video sounds more like digital 4K interlaced to me ...
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post #26 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 09:43 AM
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None of the press releases to date regarding the new 4K single chip has references to the UHD Premium spec. TI needs to spill the beans and let us know exactly what the chip is capable of aside from 4K resolution.
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post #27 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 10:12 AM
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I wonder if they'll use the term "wobulation" as it seems like the word ended up having a short lived and somewhat negative connotation in the market.

The description in the video sounds more like digital 4K interlaced to me ...
The "wobulation" terminology probably isn't apropos as it stems from old interlacing designs. "Wobble" connotes a crude back and forth looseness...like a car wheel that's missing some lug nuts. The preciseness and speed with which the micro-mirrors display the two sets of 4 million pixels precludes any notion of "wobble". I'm looking forward to an LED version...perhaps with the new Philips ColorSpark HLD.
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post #28 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 10:15 AM
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None of the press releases to date regarding the new 4K single chip has references to the UHD Premium spec. TI needs to spill the beans and let us know exactly what the chip is capable of aside from 4K resolution.
The specs you're looking for will vary from manufacture to manufacture depending on what light engine they harness the chip to and the quality of the optics used.
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post #29 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 10:17 AM
 
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It may not be a pixel to pixel 4K chip but unlike the e-shift systems, this will display a pixel to pixel 4K image. Its a great approach since the smaller chip limits lens cost.
This is actually not true it will show about half of 4K resolution at around 4million pixels.
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post #30 of 904 Old 01-07-2016, 10:21 AM
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This is actually not true it will show about half of 4K resolution at around 4million pixels.
no...it will display 8 million pixels
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