3000:1 CR, avsforum" /> 3000:1 CR Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP" /> Sony develops 1080p "SXRD" with > 3000:1 CR - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bbq@KL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bridgewater
Posts: 1,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...age/0219_a.jpg
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200302/03-008E/

Sony develops "SXRD", a display device capable of generating high resolution, high contrast images of film quality smoothness
for upcoming use in both front-projectors and rear-projection TVs

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...ge/0219e_b.gif

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...0219e_cgif.gif

bbq@KL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 05:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ohlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falun, Sweden
Posts: 5,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is it a hoax?

I am not technical but it seems to me as if sxrd is Sonys brand name for lcos or?

What is the time frame of this sxrd?

Mattias Ohlson
Ohlson is offline  
post #3 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 05:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Scott B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I want it, and I want it now!!!
Scott B is offline  
post #4 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 05:20 AM
Senior Member
 
nachin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Spain
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This is the new that everybody it´s waiting for, and look at the last phrase..............."Sony aims to introduce front projectors and rear projection products incorporating this technology to the market within the next fiscal year."

It will be true? Cross your fingers.:)
nachin is offline  
post #5 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 05:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sean Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Frederick, MD USA
Posts: 799
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Yeah, it certainly seems like Sony's take on LCOS. I'm not sure if other LCOS devices have a panel contrast of 3000:1, or what that will translate too in terms of device CR or black level, but it sounds promising.

The press release stated that Sony would be bringing FP's and RP's to market within the next fiscal year. Guess that means we know what they'll be showing at CEDIA and CES.

I wonder how much this is going to cost? Do they plan to use a three panel array (hopefully)? I hope whatever they come out with will take a 1080p signal directly and come in under 10k (I'd prefer under 5k, but I'm being realistic).

"Experience is the one thing you can't get for nothing." - Oscar Wilde
Sean Max is offline  
post #6 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 05:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Phat Phreddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 6,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I guess thats gonna put a lot of people back on the fence :D !!!
Phat Phreddy is offline  
post #7 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 06:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wireless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: East Tennessee, USA
Posts: 2,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If this info translates into a viable product, 1920x1080 and 3000:1 contrast. Even at $10k there should be many upgraders, including yours truly :)
Wireless is offline  
post #8 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 06:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ohlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falun, Sweden
Posts: 5,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Device contrast for sxrd >3000:1 seems reasonable.
In white papers on d-ila they mention device contrast >2000:1.

The quest Sony has to embark on is to make a projector that ends up with a contrast >2000:1 or thereabouts. I think it is within reach.

High resolution, quick response time, no rainbows, probably better than just acceptable black level. The shadow detail has not been a problem in the past with d-ila or lcos so sxrd should be fine in that department.

So lets start speculate on shipping date and price.
My bet is early 2004 and the price will be 13995$.

Mattias Ohlson
Ohlson is offline  
post #9 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 06:35 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
anthonymoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: ny, ny usa
Posts: 5,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 58
"I'd prefer under 5k, but I'm being realistic"

If anyone could/would do it, it'd be Sony. They blew the CRT PJ market pricing structure out of the water a few times over the past 20 years (did a case study on it in b-school), so digital PJs could be next.

Personally, my guess will be early 2004, MSRP of $9999 and a street around $8k.

TM

Stuck up, half witted, scruffy looking, nerf herder.
Double True!
anthonymoody is offline  
post #10 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 06:50 AM
KBK
AVS Special Member
 
KBK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Wilds Of Canada
Posts: 7,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I knew that was the Key to reflective technologies..it was vertically mounted blanking capacity for the panels, to isolate the pixels from adjacent light noise. I was just waiting for someone to produce it.

Software should definitely include a emphasis on hysteresis-based-calculated mathematical transforms to create more apparent CR range, due to adjacent pixel influences. eachend of the CR range would end up looking slightly crushed, but barely noticable, as most images are composite in their IRE levels.. one would hope. Therefor this tactic works. Sorta a standard gamma thing, but slightly different in application.

Due to the fact that the panels will have to be actuated via reflected light, this indicates a angular component to the light fed to the panel. This will mar the expected CR situation slightly. Thus the reality of the lower numbers. Reduction of the reflective angle should increase CR, but it will be limited by the panel dimension itself. The best that can be done, is a long collimated pathway to cut the angularity problem, done on a vertical axis to the wide panel, over the horizontal plane approach. This creates a square PJ over a rectangular one, but it would probably have better CR with a vertical design. Basically, the light source directly over or under the combining prism block, with the panels out on the sides.

Just a quick guess.

Ken Hotte

"Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.
KBK is offline  
post #11 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 07:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
steve_fye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Neat, but what about brightness?

My Home Theater
I almost got scammed on eBay! Read about it here
www.rhapsodydesignsolutions.com/home_theater/
steve_fye is offline  
post #12 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 07:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jerry Pease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Parrish, Fla, USA
Posts: 1,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Competing technologies is very good thing.

Jerry Pease is offline  
post #13 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 07:18 AM
 
WanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lat: 34.0725288 Lon: -83.9337082
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What exactly is the LCD gap? I understand the inter-cell gap, but should I interpret the LCD gap being the distance between the layers that form the top and bottom of the cell? Its nice they have denoted the gap between adjacent cells (0.35µm), but this means little without knowing the dimension of the cell's sides for determining the fill-factor.
WanMan is offline  
post #14 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 07:38 AM
Member
 
MrPlastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Mississippi
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WanMan,

Fill factor is listed on the second image as 92%.

Indecision is the basis of flexibility.
MrPlastic is offline  
post #15 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 07:39 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
The sad thing is so many new of the new technologies look great in theory none of them ever materialize.

If it were to make it to market it would have to be priced to compete with current DLP and Dila pricing.
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #16 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 07:45 AM
Senior Member
 
nachin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Spain
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The sad thing is so many new technologies have been announced over the years some by Sony and none of them ever materialise.

Yes, but know we have pics of the baby!

The rest is now easy, cool case, good scaler (already do), we can dream I little.....
nachin is offline  
post #17 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:06 AM
 
WanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lat: 34.0725288 Lon: -83.9337082
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Second page? We are talking about a webpage, not a PDF document. I went to the URL that BBQ@KL pointed us at and I did a page search on '%' and only found it once, for reflectivity. What pages are you looking at?

Doh! You are talking about the second image (Diagram 1)!
WanMan is offline  
post #18 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:15 AM
Gus
AVS Special Member
 
Gus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts USA
Posts: 2,265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
R.I.P DLP?

Gus
Gus is offline  
post #19 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ohlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falun, Sweden
Posts: 5,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
SXRD makes sense.
TI controls dlp technology too much for Sonys liking.
LCD is not an optimal technology for fp home theater. The new epson panels for 1920x1080 is 1.65 inch and the same resolution with sxrd is 0.78 inch. This should translate in cost savings. The performance benefits of sxrd over lcd seem obvious.

I believe sxrd will be the technology flag ship for Sony until glv technology arrivers on the scene in a couple of years. With the G90 almost gone Sony needs something at the high end. LCD is good but not great.

Mattias Ohlson
Ohlson is offline  
post #20 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:25 AM
 
WanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lat: 34.0725288 Lon: -83.9337082
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone want to place early bets that anything delivered to the market based on this Sony technology will probably be in the $15K or higher market? This would certainly suit the suits at Sony for their G90 flagship projection product.

Let this all sit and ferment for a year or two. Then let the complaining begin.
WanMan is offline  
post #21 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
stevenjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: DC Metro area USA
Posts: 2,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Well, hopefully Sony goes the other direction and prices it very competitively to capture the market. If the pricing of the HS10 is any indication, they may price it aggressively. Maybe.....

Let's hope that Hitachi, JVC, Toshiba, or someone else comes out with 1920x1080 in the next year at reasonable prices too. Competition always helps to drive down prices.

...Steve
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." - V

 


My 3D-BD/BD/HD-DVD/DVD collection and HT gear

stevenjw is offline  
post #22 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
ShePearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
And this could stimulate TI to bring us 1080p DMD.

Desperately in pursuit of the perfect image....
ShePearl is offline  
post #23 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 09:52 AM
 
WanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lat: 34.0725288 Lon: -83.9337082
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What's competitive? I do not remember seeing any digital projectors in the consumer market (even high-end; ultra high-end maybe) that can deliver 1920x1080. It would be easy for Sony (or anyone else) to justify a $30K price when looking at it at the per-pixel pricing arrangement. And I doubt we'll see an equivalent Sub-$10K before the end of 2004.

Hey, if I'm wrong then kudos to everyone including me. :)
WanMan is offline  
post #24 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 10:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tryg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Washington
Posts: 9,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Did anyone read my Christmas/CES diddy?

We will likely see numerous 1080p products this year. What I'm trying to evaluate is what all these other projectors will be worth then.

Of course there will always be those knuckleheads that say my 1280x720 DLP is just as good....
Tryg is offline  
post #25 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 10:55 AM
Senior Member
 
hpalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I find it interesting that people keep saying LCD is dead/dying/can't keep up when this technology is LCD based. (Just a comment not a flame)

hpalmer
hpalmer is offline  
post #26 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 11:17 AM
 
WanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lat: 34.0725288 Lon: -83.9337082
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I like to think there is a difference between LCD and LCOS.
WanMan is offline  
post #27 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 11:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,468
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked: 320
I've read comments from the reviews of the 1080p LCOS rear projector from Toshiba that said they had never seen so small a gap between pixels before on fixed panel devices (including DLP and D-ILA). The problem I saw was that it didn't accept a native 1080p signal (which it should be able to) and bypass the internal scaler for 1:1 mapping.

If this new technology can meet or beat LCOS and hit the market at even better competitive prices with native 1080p support, then look out Texas Instruments!!!

Dan

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #28 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 11:40 AM
Senior Member
 
hpalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
I like to think there is a difference between LCD and LCOS.
Hey, it isn't a big deal but the difference is people have a habbit of refering to transmissive LCD as LCD and transflective as LCOS. They are both LC based technology, I guarantee it. Hence the LC in LCOS. :)
hpalmer is offline  
post #29 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 12:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Dod anyone else notive this

"The move towards content of this nature is set to continue with the forthcoming launch of terrestrial digital broadcasting in the near future."

I wonder if they've had this in their labs for years trying to get it to work, and forgot to update their forever-imminent press release.

Their description of a streamlined chip fab process sounds like it has the potential to be relatively economical to produce.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #30 of 1105 Old 02-19-2003, 12:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
If this new technology can meet or beat LCOS...
It appears that this new technology IS LCOS.

The "SXRD" designation must be Sony's brand-name for their implementation of LCOS, just as "D-ILA" is JVC's brand-name for their implementation of LCOS.

Speaking of Sony/JVC, there may be some patent issues in the way of this reaching the market. I see that this implementation uses vertically aligned LC, which I had believed that JVC had a patent for...

This is certainly very interesting!

Mark Hunter
Technical Director, Home Theater Products
Datacolor, Inc.
Mark Hunter is offline  
Closed Thread Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off