RGBHV over shielded Cat 5 success! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 524 Old 07-02-2001, 06:29 PM
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Well if anyone wants to buy the CDW cable and doesn't need all 150' let me know. I would be willing to buy 75' for half of your puchase price. I will pay shipping to my house. Otherwise I will just buy 150' feet of cable. Will the signal survive that distance?

Tim

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post #62 of 524 Old 07-02-2001, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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tim,

The signal will make it 75' but I can't guarantee your results. Thumper feels that 40'-50' is about the max for critical viewing.

Good luck

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post #63 of 524 Old 07-12-2001, 01:51 AM
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Anyone know where to get shielded cat5 cable in Australia (Perth)??

I don't understand, from my computer technical knowledge, UTP cat5 cable is Unshielded Twisted Pair. And now all of a sudden we're talking about Shieled UTP cable??

Anyway, has anyone made up a component cable yet? The result??

And how about a VGA-> 5RCA? What would be the wiring schematic? Would you need 2 x Cat5?
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post #64 of 524 Old 07-12-2001, 05:24 AM
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I have a couple questions for those who have tried this. Would this technique work for making an s-video cable? Would this work for a rca-rca component video cable? I am presently using 3 solid copper core quad shielded home made cables and I seem to be getting some ringing with my 400Q. This would be a cheap alternative I would be willing to experiment with.

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post #65 of 524 Old 07-12-2001, 05:52 PM
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Chuck,
The problem with what you are asking is that there is no convenient way to terminate Cat-5e with RCA connectors, without an impedance mismatch or some unshielded length of wire. This technique is best used for HD-15 (VGA) connectors at both ends.

As for your "ringing problem": Good quadshield RG-6/U is very low loss and has fairly consistent impedence. For component RGB are you:

1) Using precisely identical lengths of cable for Red/Green/Blue?
2) Terminating each run with good quality metal shell solder type RCA connectors, rather than using adapters?
3) Can you inspect the entire length of each cable to make sure there are no kinks, no crimps, and no abrupt bends?

It should work fine if done right. For S-video, the transition from the bulk and diameter of dual RG-6/U to the mini-DIN connector is a difficult problem I have as yet no good solution for, other than S-video breakout cables, which introduce another pair of connectors in each cable.

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[This message has been edited by Gary McCoy (edited 07-12-2001).]

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post #66 of 524 Old 07-12-2001, 06:06 PM
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Well when you say percise I believe they may be off as much as a half inch. I am not sure. How precise is precise?
I should mention that these cables are 50' in length. I tried to be exact as possible but the minute the cables flexed one way or another the length would change. I would think I am no more than 3/8" off. It is impossible to tell without a specific cable measuring device.
Chuck

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post #67 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 01:50 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Shaw:
I don't understand, from my computer technical knowledge, UTP cat5 cable is Unshielded Twisted Pair. And now all of a sudden we're talking about Shieled UTP cable??

You're almost there, UTP is Unshielded Twisted Pair, but what you're looking for is called STP which stands for - wait for it - Shielded Twisted Pair...

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post #68 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 02:53 AM
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Can some one give me advice on how I can stop the ringing that im getting from the cable I made?
Any solutions to ringing
phase and sych didnt do it ?????????????????????/

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post #69 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 09:42 AM
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jgaines,

As MrWigggles pointed out in the original post, ringing is caused by an impedance mismatch problem, i.e. something is wrong with the cable, and you aren't going to be able to fix it by adjusting your projector. It would help if you would provide the following information:

- What type of cable you are using (brand, part #)
- How long is it
- What kind of connectors you are using
- Do you have a breakout cable in the path

You might want to try re-flowing the solder on each of your connections, or even just starting over (i.e. cut the connectors off and put on new ones). Also, double-check that you have connected all the grounds per MrWigggles' original post, especially the shield wire.
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post #70 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 01:12 PM
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Anyone who has successfully built one of these cables, could you please clarify grounding of the CAT5 shield. My shielded Cat5 has a foil cover and I am wondering how to connect the shield to pin # 10 for grounding.

Also, do I need to connect the foil (shield) to the metal hood in addition to pin # 10. I think Mr. Wiggles suggested this won't make a difference. Can someone please confirm.

Thanks much.

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post #71 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 03:02 PM
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MAK,

There should be a ninth wire. It is an uninsulated wire that presumably makes contact with the foil shield along the length of the cable. This is what should be soldered to pin #10. If your cable doesn't have this wire, then it's going to be difficult to make it work. If you check and it really doesn't have this wire, please post the brand and part # of the cable that you are using so others can avoid it.

- Chris
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post #72 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 03:13 PM
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Thanks, will do.

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post #73 of 524 Old 07-13-2001, 05:12 PM
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Chris

The cable im using is a quabbin data max shie;ded stp100 ohm cable(bought from altex)

Its 20 feet long
connectors are silver

I have a viewsonic projector
I have the evc-vga adapter
I took pin 9 out on the cable

I will try starting over
it looked good for a while then all of a sudden the ringing came
Thanks for your help...

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post #74 of 524 Old 07-15-2001, 08:46 PM
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I was thinking about this whole idea recently, and had a thought... Could one use STP terminated in RJ45 jacks, and plug them in to a RJ45 -> Dsub15 adapter? Of course, finding an RJ45 -> Dsub15 adapter would be tough, so my thought was to use the jacket & wires from a RJ45->DB9 adapter and just replace the DB9 with a Dsub15. Hmm, what would I connect the ground/shield wire to?



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post #75 of 524 Old 07-16-2001, 02:43 PM
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Chris,

The shield wire was there. My 33' cable is connected to a BNC(component) break-out cable and seems to be working better than the 25' shielded VGA extension I was previously using. The only problem is, this is not the only HW I have changed. I am not sure whether the current performance should be attributed to the new cable, the new DVD player or to servicing/cleaning my VT540 .

Whatever the reason I am happy with the way things look now .

Thanks everyone for the help and special thanks to Mr. Wiggles for his great work.

Cheers

MAK
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post #76 of 524 Old 07-20-2001, 06:54 PM
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I am all ready to make this cable but the 100 ohm shielded cat 5 cable I bought has the following colors:
red, green, blue, orange, white, black, brown, yellow.
here is a link to the cable http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?EDC=075068
it doesn't say shielded but it is.
how do I wire this cable using the diagram with these different colored wires? I am confused since the instructions have different colored wiring.
thanks,
Jeffrey


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post #77 of 524 Old 07-20-2001, 07:03 PM
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Jeffrey,

Connect the Red, Green, and Blue to pins 1, 2, and 3.
Notice what color each of these is twisted together with.
Then:

6: color that is twisted with Red
7: color that is twisted with Green
8: color that is twisted with Blue

It doesn't matter which of the colors that are left are
connected to pins 13 and 14 as long as you do the same
thing on both ends.

- Chris
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post #78 of 524 Old 07-20-2001, 07:06 PM
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thanks so much!!!
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post #79 of 524 Old 07-20-2001, 07:10 PM
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sh*t. the twisted color combos are
blue/orange
white/brown
black/yellow
red/green

should I just connect blue for blue, red for red, and white for green?
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post #80 of 524 Old 07-20-2001, 08:00 PM
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As you can probably guess, the color of the insulation won't affect how it works. It is just nice to have the colors correlate with the signal that they are carrying. Your proposal should work fine. As long as the pairs are used on pins 1/6, 2/7, and 3/8, you should be OK.

- Chris
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post #81 of 524 Old 07-21-2001, 02:11 PM
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I have plenty UTP cat5 cable around here, would it be worth the trouble to solder a s-video cable with this?

I would just solder pin to pin connections on each end using 4 wires, instead of using a s-vide cable with 4 wires.

Lenght would be appx. 5 meters.

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[This message has been edited by soren (edited 07-21-2001).]

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post #82 of 524 Old 07-21-2001, 04:35 PM
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Soren,

Remember from MrWigggles initial post, that the "secret sauce" that makes this work is the shielding. He tried UTP first, and the results were poor. The explanation was that the shielding brought the characteristic impedance from 100 ohms down closer to 75 ohms. S-video also requires 75 ohms, so it would apply to your situation too.

- Chris
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post #83 of 524 Old 07-22-2001, 11:27 AM
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Is there any way to make these wires without soldering? I've never soldered before and do not have a soldering iron.

If not, is there anyone interested in making a little money doing this for me?



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post #84 of 524 Old 07-22-2001, 01:37 PM
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jalaram,

I can't think of any way to do this without soldering. You can get a soldering iron and solder for less than it will cost in shipping if you have someone else do it for you, not to mention the "labor". You'd still have to learn how to solder. Soldering is really pretty easy, but it does help if you have someone showing you how to do it in person.

Still, I can understand if you'd just prefer to pay someone else to do it. My son helped me build mine. As we were working on it I mentioned to him that he might be able to make some money by building these for people who didn't want to be bothered with the soldering. He's only 10, so I'd be doing the actual soldering until he learns how. I'd let him keep the money, but it would be good father-son time for me.

I was going to e-mail Alan (AVS) to make sure it was not an abuse of forum privileges to post offering this service. Hadn't gotten around to it yet, though, and since you asked, I feel OK responding. We were thinking of charging $10 per HD-15 connector, plus the actual cost of the materials.

E-mail me at csatt@cisco.com if you are interested!

- Chris
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post #85 of 524 Old 07-24-2001, 12:41 PM
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JC, earlier in this thread somebody mentioned using a crimp-style HD-15 connector. A very good quality crimper for 24-gauge pins is about $40, and a pin puller tool another $10, so it's actually more money than buying a soldering iron, solder, and solder wick. The only advantage would be the skill level would be somewhat less than with solder connections.

With either of these alternatives, you will need a good wire stripper capable of stripping 24-guage stranded copper wire without nicking it, about $15.

Learning to solder would be my reccomendation, if you intend to pursue audio/video as a hobby. You can buy the tools and build "very good" cables that perform as well as the very expensive boutique cables, and be dollars ahead on the first purchase.

Gary

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post #86 of 524 Old 07-24-2001, 06:56 PM
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For those of you still wondering if shielded cat5 will work for HDTV component cables (or are just sick of reading LT150 posts), rest assured it works! I followed Mr. Wiggles advice and used the shield ground to ground the Y connector (green) and it works great on my 25ft cable. I used RCA plugs on both ends, since I couldn't find what looked like the appropriate BNC connectors (they usually expect coax). I just purchased some RCA to BNC connectors. Cheers!
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post #87 of 524 Old 07-25-2001, 12:12 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by belmore:
For those of you still wondering if shielded cat5 will work for HDTV component cables (or are just sick of reading LT150 posts), rest assured it works! I followed Mr. Wiggles advice and used the shield ground to ground the Y connector (green) and it works great on my 25ft cable. I used RCA plugs on both ends, since I couldn't find what looked like the appropriate BNC connectors (they usually expect coax). I just purchased some RCA to BNC connectors. Cheers!

Would you post pictures please?

Regards,

Brian
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post #88 of 524 Old 07-25-2001, 08:31 AM
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It's very simple actually. Unfortunately I used all my wire, so I really can't show you step-by-step instructions using pictures. I'll do the best I can just explaining it. It really is incredibly simple. Sorry if I give way too much detail here.

Here's the cable I used:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...Fid=910%2D1621

It's not actually a cat 5 cable, but it worked fine regardless. It's a Belden shielded cable containing only 3 twisted pairs vs. the 4 pairs that a cat 5 cable uses. I picked it up from a local RadioShack.com store here in Atlanta. I also purchased 6 RCA phono type connectors.

Pick up a soldering iron with a small head. RadioShack.com had one for about $10. Get a roll of 60-40 resin flux core. Thin 0.75mm diameter.

Remove about 2 or 3 inches of the plastic sheathing of the wire. Carefully peal back the wire mesh (this is what I refer to as the shield wire) to expose the other wires. In case of the wire I used, besides the wire mesh, there is also another separate shield wire that will be exposed once the mesh is pulled back, resting against the foil. This separate shield wire is like the other wires, but lacks plastic sheathing and makes contact with the wire mess. You could form a similar wire using part of the mess wires if necessary. Cut away the mess if you have this separate shield wire, if not cut away the excess mess wire that you didn't use to form a separate wire.

Peel back the metal foil and cut it away. Cut away the insulating fibers as well (not sure of the technical terms for these, but you'll know what I mean).

What you should end up with (if using the 3 pair wire I used) is 7 wires (3 pairs and the shield wire). Strip the sheathing off the tip of these wires with your finger nails. Remove just enough of the sheathing to expose just the tip of the wire. All you want is enough exposed to slip into one of the solder holes on the RCA connector and bend it over. If you remove too much, the exposed wires may be able to touch after soldering to the RCA connector and cause a short. If you remove a little much sheathing, simply cut a little off the tip of the wire.

The RCA connectors will have two solder points, one that is attached to the "prong" part of the plug and the other the "outer sleeve". Again, forgive my terms here.

First build the Y (green) connector, since it's a little unique from the others.

Remove the plastic or metal screw on shield from the RCA connector. Untwist the green-white wire (green with white stripes or spots) from the white-green wire (white with green stripes or spots). Cut away the white-green wire You won't need it. Instead, we'll use the shield ground wire.

Slip the plastic or metal shield over the shield ground and the green-white wire, so that we can attach it to the RCA connector after soldering. Rest the RCA connector in something to hold it steady while soldering. I used a pair of vice grips, but be careful to only use light pressure or you'll damage the connector.

Slip the end of the green-white wire into the prong's solder hole of RCA connector and bend it over. Hold the wire slightly taunt to keep in place. Use the same hand to control the solder. Use the soldering iron with the other hand. Press the soldering iron against the wire and the connector. Press the "thread" (?) of solder to the same point. Continue "feeding" solder until it forms a good connection. Without releasing the wire, pull the iron away and blow on the solder point until it cools slightly. This whole process should not take more than a few seconds.

Solder the shield wire to the RCA connector's sleeve in a similar fashion.


Solder the red-white to the prong and white-red wires to the sleeve of another RCA connector. Solder the blue-white and white-blue wire to another RCA connector. Repeat this whole process for the other end of the wire. The important thing about the colors here is to be consistent on both ends of the wire.
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post #89 of 524 Old 07-25-2001, 11:28 AM
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Ok, here's a couple of pictures for you:





[This message has been edited by belmore (edited 07-25-2001).]
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post #90 of 524 Old 07-25-2001, 01:11 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by belmore:
Slip the end of the green-white wire into the prong's solder hole of RCA connector and bend it over. Hold the wire slightly taunt to keep in place. Use the same hand to control the solder. Use the soldering iron with the other hand. Press the soldering iron against the wire and the connector. Press the "thread" (?) of solder to the same point. Continue "feeding" solder until it forms a good connection. Without releasing the wire, pull the iron away and blow on the solder point until it cools slightly. This whole process should not take more than a few seconds.


One point of caution. Do not blow on a hot solder joint. Just simply remove the iron and hold the wire while the joint cools off by itself. It shouldn't take longer than 2 seconds anyway. The problem of blowing on it, or moving the wires while a hot solder joint is cooling is known as a cold solder joint. The electrical characteristics of this type of joint are somewhat diminished. You can spot a cold solder joint by its dull luster. You want to strive for a shiny joint for the best results.

Also, you only want to heat the immediate area, so you should not have to leave the iron against the metal very long at all. Oh, and a good trick, especially for the connectors in the pictures, is to buy a small tube of solder flux. Put a small amount on the metal tab first and heat it with the iron. when you think it's hot enough, then feed some solder into the contact point (where the ion is touching the tab). Try to leave a small blob on the tab. Then, when you are ready to attach the wire to the tab, all you have to do is reheat the solder, stick the wire in the middle, and remove the iron to let it cool. Much quicker, and you are going to have a higher success rate with you joints. I used this method on over 32 of these things and found it to work the best.

Good luck,
Jay


[This message has been edited by Jay C (edited 07-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jay C (edited 07-25-2001).]

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